Why is Alen Babic not included in the heavyweight ratings on BoxRec?

[Enlightened-One]

As a sidenote I've often said that Hrgovic is a Croat so he doesn't have the luxury of becoming a darling of the UK Boxing fanbase and a box-office sensation. Mr. Babic is making me question that assessment.

He has a lot of advantages that Babic doesn't but Babic has shown that nationality is no barrier to becoming a UK Boxing hero, if you have the right mental attitude and the personality to make them sit up and take notice.

Filip Hrgovic will struggle acquiring a fan base, because he seems to compete in a different country for each outing (at least nine different countries from 13 bouts).

He’s only fought twice in Croatia and that was roughly three years ago. And he’s never competed in the UK.

Who are Wasserman trying to market Hrgovic to?

The average fight fan in the UK probably wouldn't know anything about Filip Hrgovic, but they'll all sing Alen Babic's praises. Even my wife knows about him (probably because of that marriage proposal with his very young looking partner).

I'm not Croatian, so perhaps it's inappropriate of me to assume, but I strongly suspect Hrgovic doesn't have much of a following in his homeland, otherwise he wouldn't be choosing to appear on undercards of events staged in Latvia, Germany, USA, Denmark, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Austria etc.

I agree but my point was that I was coming around to the idea that if Hrgovic were to fight frequently in the UK, it would not be impossible for him to grow a fanbase.

Unfortunately though he doesn't have the force of personality or the rock 'em sock 'em style of Babic so it might be an uphill struggle, but not long ago I would have regarded the possibility as very remote.

If Hrgovic fights regularly in the UK and looks good against decent opposition, then British fans will love him, even if his English is very limited.

Unfortunately though, he likes to collect his air miles and compete against subpar opposition on obscure undercards of events staged in Countries not known for being huge fans of boxing.

[Lennox]

Hrgovic is actually in the top 1% for fighting quality opposition for heavyweight boxers with less than 15 fights.

Very few fighters have faced 4 top 100 fighters after 13 fights. In the heavyweight division in the last 30 years there would probably only be a couple of dozen or so. Tony Yoka has done better of course.

It happens a lot more at the lighter weights.

a lot of the info can be found here by looking at the last 20 fights.

https://www.premierboxingorganisation.c ... weight-200

[Enlightened-One]

Hrgovic is actually in the top 1% for fighting quality opposition for heavyweight boxers with less than 15 fights.

Apart from Joe Joyce and Tony Yoka, the vast majority of these "prospects" (fighters that are either unbeaten or only suffering one loss, that have engaged in fewer than 16 bouts) all have similar resumes (i.e. constantly engaged in mismatches):

• Filip Hrgovic
• Arslanbek Makhmudov
• Arslan Iallyev
• Stephan Shaw
• Justis Huni
• Michael Polite Coffie
• Fabio Wardley
• Oleksandr Zakhozhyi
• Paul Gallen
• Jared Anderson
• Bakhodir Jalolov
• Ali Eren Demirezen
• Alexis Garcia
• Viktor Vykhryst
• Peter Kadiru
• Adam Stewart
• Kristian Prenga
• Guido Vianello
• Brandon Moore
• Joseph Goodall
• Vitaly Kudukhov
• David Adeleye
• Mikheil Bakhtidze
• Jose Larduet
• Andrey Mangushev
• Ivan Dychko
• Ubaldo Ilagor
• Mahammadrasul Majidov
• Kiki Toa Leutele
• Lenier Pero
• Roney Hines
• Solomon Dacres
• Christian Thun
• Nicolas Wamba
• Ivan D'Adamo
• Danila Semenov
• Mihai Nistor
• Emir Ahmatovic
• Dusan Veletic
• Steve Vukosa
• Erik Pfeifer
• Arsene Fosso
• Sonny Conto
• Dacarree Scott
• Igor Adiel Macedo da Silva
• Jermarcus Polain
• Bohdan Myronets
• Istvan Bernath
• Steven Torres
• Dmytro Bezus
• Willis Meehan
• Dante Stone
• Raphael Akpejiori
• Mateusz Cielepala
• Kacper Meyna
• Amron Sands
• Sergey Kharitonov
• Basir Abakarov
• Norman Neely
• Vladimir Ivanov
• Elijah Tevaga Sa'lesui
• Emanuele Venturelli
• Pezhman Seifkhani
• Tian Fick
• Jacek Chruslicki
• Ihor Shevadzutskyi
• Jacek Krzysztof Piatek
• Jeremiah Milton
• Sahret Delgado
• Remigiusz Smolinski
• Zamig Atakishiyev
• Collins Omondi Ojal
• Johnny Fisher
• Oleksandr Babych
• Jakub Sosinski
• Kris Terzievski
• Gurgen Hovhannisyan
• Sonny Bill Williams
• Giuseppe Claudio Squeo
• Gianmarco Cardillo
• Damian Knyba
• Moses Johnson
• Lucian Atana
• Serdar Avci
• Alexandru Gabroveanu
• Eric Berumen De La Cruz
• Gueney Artak
• Pietro Cappelli
• Stanley Wright
• Hasim Rahman Jr
• Tommy Welch
• Ardi Ndembo
• Granit Shala
• Iegor Plevako
• Wilmer Vasquez
• Djuar El Scheich
• Walter Burns

It’s very difficult to determine the difference between one prospect engaging in an horrendous mismatch (against a journeyman with an appalling losing record) to another prospect seemingly doing the same thing!

If you wanted me to only list those "prospects" that are unbeaten, I'd still be able to list 73 names with similar Hrgovic-style resumes.

[adislav123]

man, eo! it must be... ... exhausting to be you!

[tiny_acres]

man, eo! it must be... ... exhausting to be you!

It sure is exhausting reading his posts

[Frede6]

Tony Yoka has done better of course.

9 x Top 100. Funny. In France people say that Yoka has only fought tomato cans

[Lennox]

Tony Yoka has done better of course.

9 x Top 100. Funny. In France people say that Yoka has only fought tomato cans

Yoka's quality of opponents for his first 11 fights is exceptional. Hardly any heavyweight in 30 years that I have collated stats has fought as many rated fighters. Remember a top 100 heavyweight is a top 10% heavyweight.

[margaret thatcher]

yoka been a pro for almost 5 years, in aj's first 5 year pro he beat wlad, whyte, povetkin, parker, takam, martin, breazeale

lewis, tyson, wlad, etc.....all world champs


yokas progress is solid but nothing incredible. we should go by time pro, just using number of fights ignores inactivity and flatters guys compared to other fighters who are more active

[SportsRatings]

Tony Yoka has done better of course.

9 x Top 100. Funny. In France people say that Yoka has only fought tomato cans

Yoka's quality of opponents for his first 11 fights is exceptional. Hardly any heavyweight in 30 years that I have collated stats has fought as many rated fighters. Remember a top 100 heavyweight is a top 10% heavyweight.

Yeah but not many take a year-long layoff after their 5th fight either...and 4 years to fight 11 bouts.

Kubrat Pulev's first 11 fights must have been pretty close to Yoka's and it only took him 1.5 years instead of 4.

[KiwiRider]

Yeah but not many take a year-long layoff after their 5th fight either...and 4 years to fight 11 bouts.

Kubrat Pulev's first 11 fights must have been pretty close to Yoka's and it only took him 1.5 years instead of 4.

https://www.worldboxingnews.net/2018/08 ... r-of-2019/

[margaret thatcher]

9 x Top 100. Funny. In France people say that Yoka has only fought tomato cans

Yoka's quality of opponents for his first 11 fights is exceptional. Hardly any heavyweight in 30 years that I have collated stats has fought as many rated fighters. Remember a top 100 heavyweight is a top 10% heavyweight.

Yeah but not many take a year-long layoff after their 5th fight either...and 4 years to fight 11 bouts.

Kubrat Pulev's first 11 fights must have been pretty close to Yoka's and it only took him 1.5 years instead of 4.

ya, that's an important point with yoka, that 9 fights is spread over 4.5 years......when you look at his resume in terms of time pro it's less impressive, especially considering he turned pro in his mid 20s as a highly experienced amateur and wsb fighter

i'd still say his progress has been solid and bakole would be another good fight, but for 4.5 years in his career certainly isnot spectacular or anything. the fact that other guys like hrgovic etc are moving slower is more reflective on how badly some dudes are stagnating today than how great yoka's matchmaking is

[Enlightened-One]

Yoka's quality of opponents for his first 11 fights is exceptional. Hardly any heavyweight in 30 years that I have collated stats has fought as many rated fighters. Remember a top 100 heavyweight is a top 10% heavyweight.

Yeah but not many take a year-long layoff after their 5th fight either...and 4 years to fight 11 bouts.

Kubrat Pulev's first 11 fights must have been pretty close to Yoka's and it only took him 1.5 years instead of 4.

ya, that's an important point with yoka, that 9 fights is spread over 4.5 years......when you look at his resume in terms of time pro it's less impressive, especially considering he turned pro as a highly experienced amateur and wsb fighter

i'd still say his progress has been okay and bakole would be another good fight, but for 4.5 years in his career certainly isnot spectacular or anything

It's kind of weird.

There's not much of an age gap between Efe Ajagba and Tony Yoka.

Some forum posters passionately argue that Ajagba is a youngster and has plenty of time to learn his craft, but then Yoka is criticised for his slow career progression, even though he's achieved far more than the Nigerian has (in both the amateurs and the pros).

And for the record, Yoka didn't "take a year off" voluntarily. He made the same mistake Rio Ferdinand did, he missed a PED test and was suspended because of it.

So he hasn't really had four years available to him to compete. He's averaging almost four bouts per year.

[margaret thatcher]

efe again bruh

the man is sexy as hell , you gotta forgive the dudes who were blowing his horn too hard

[Enlightened-One]

efe again bruh

the man is sexy as hell , you gotta forgive the dudes who were blowing his horn too hard

Funny dude!

But are my points valid, though?

[SportsRatings]

Yeah but not many take a year-long layoff after their 5th fight either...and 4 years to fight 11 bouts.

Kubrat Pulev's first 11 fights must have been pretty close to Yoka's and it only took him 1.5 years instead of 4.

https://www.worldboxingnews.net/2018/08 ... r-of-2019/

Yeah I know it was a ban but that's arguably worse and has to figure into the perception of Yoka as not being serious. He fights good competition for early fights, but he won a gold medal, there's a bigger expectation for him.

[Enlightened-One]

Yeah but not many take a year-long layoff after their 5th fight either...and 4 years to fight 11 bouts.

Kubrat Pulev's first 11 fights must have been pretty close to Yoka's and it only took him 1.5 years instead of 4.

https://www.worldboxingnews.net/2018/08 ... r-of-2019/

Yeah I know it was a ban but that's arguably worse and has to figure into the perception of Yoka as not being serious. He fights good competition for early fights, but he won a gold medal, there's a bigger expectation for him.

A ban for missing a test, not for failing a test.

He failed to adhere to procedure (not notifying the authorities of his whereabouts) - he wasn't caught cheating.

He's not riding the same boat as Jarrell Miller or Luis Ortiz.

[margaret thatcher]

oh ya, for sure efe had some knob slobbers who were far more generous to him than to yoka

[Lennox]

9 x Top 100. Funny. In France people say that Yoka has only fought tomato cans

Yoka's quality of opponents for his first 11 fights is exceptional. Hardly any heavyweight in 30 years that I have collated stats has fought as many rated fighters. Remember a top 100 heavyweight is a top 10% heavyweight.

Yeah but not many take a year-long layoff after their 5th fight either...and 4 years to fight 11 bouts.

Kubrat Pulev's first 11 fights must have been pretty close to Yoka's and it only took him 1.5 years instead of 4.

Sports you are quite a long way out with the evaluation of quality of fights for the first 11 fights.
Remember a W indicates an opponent not in the top 100. Most fighters do not face a TOP 100 opponent in the first 11 fights.
YOKA : W 98 W 74 66 55 70 32 15 86 37
PULEV : W W W W 62 W W W 43 W 100
JOSHUA: W W W W W W W W 45 49 W
JOYCE : 75 W W 51 W W W 46 68 18 77
HRGOVIC : W W W W W 38 86 W 93 45 W

YOKA is the only heavyweight to have fought 9 top 100 opponents in his first 11 fights since 1985.

I agree another form of measure would be (by time) but as you know fighters that race to 25-0 in a few years often do it by amassing lots of very meaningless wins against fighters ranked outside the top 500. When you fight decent opposition 3 or 4 fights a year is about normal. Very few fight 6 or 8 annual bouts unless its against people that can hardly stand up.

[margaret thatcher]

time is obviously the best way to do it, going by fight rewards inactivity. a dude could fit 10 fights into 10 years, and then we'd still be celebrating his progress

josh by the time he'd been pro as long as yoka has was a unified world champ with several defenses, beating the likes of wlad, whyte, parker, takam, martin, breazeale....... far more impressive than winning decisions over chris hammer.

yokas progress been solid, but hardly groundbreaking

[joshj909]

Probably won't happen but would be fun for the few rounds it lasts. Rivas should win handily

[ironbeard]

wow.

[gregregegg]

Probably won't happen but would be fun for the few rounds it lasts. Rivas should win handily

Surely it will happen. Cant see rivas saying no to what should be an easy fight vs a smaller cruder man and a decent payday. babic wants the shot. WBC will surely alow it.

[joshj909]

Probably won't happen but would be fun for the few rounds it lasts. Rivas should win handily

Surely it will happen. Cant see rivas saying no to what should be an easy fight vs a smaller cruder man and a decent payday. babic wants the shot. WBC will surely alow it.

I just have doubts about any reasonably good fight that is rumoured nowadays.

[gregregegg]

Probably won't happen but would be fun for the few rounds it lasts. Rivas should win handily

Surely it will happen. Cant see rivas saying no to what should be an easy fight vs a smaller cruder man and a decent payday. babic wants the shot. WBC will surely alow it.

I just have doubts about any reasonably good fight that is rumoured nowadays.

Yea im normaly depressingly skeptical. But in this case i think there are only 2 fights that make rivas a decent purse (out of the ranked fighters)... Jennings 2, and babic. I think babic makes Rivas more, and is far easier.

-So if babic wants the fight (he should, its a pretty weak title fight, a weight drained rivas).
-And rivas wants the fight (he should, good pay, and easier than the alternatives)
-WBC want the fight? (they should get some eyes and sanctioning fees involved)

tripple whammy hard to see it not happening. Only thing i think that could derail (other than covid) it is babic getting more money to fight dave allen, or babic vs okolee at cruiser... both of them are longer shots.

[golden_labrador]

Rivas will KO him in two rounds tops. will be grim