Henry Cooper: The Later Years

[HomicideHenry]

Henry Cooper vs Joe Bugner (1971) was the final performance of this highly popular British heavyweight. A controversial decision loss over 15 rounds, which led to these two men having bitterness towards each other for many years.





The two men buried the hatchet, for the most part, in this interview done in the early 2000's. Bugner never was quite accepted by the British public as one of their own and later immigrated to Australia.



Henry Cooper vs Jose Manuel Urtain (1970) was quite the upset because many people assumed that Henry was too old and that Urtain was already good enough to fight Joe Frazier. Cooper gets busted wide open in the first round but ends up making Urtain quit on his stool. Quite a performance against one of the physically strongest men to ever box professionally as Urtain was a prolific rock lifting champion.





Henry Cooper vs Jack Bodell (1970) was the second time these two men had fought. Back in '67 Cooper stopped him in 2 rounds, but this time it goes the whole 15 rounds. This made Cooper the British champion again, as he had previously dumped the title in the hopes of facing Jimmy Ellis for the WBA title that the BBBC refused to recognize.

[margaret thatcher]

henry cooper, respectable euro title level fighter, about the size of a lhw today

his popularity is interesting - if you actually listen to him speak he's often very bitter ,full of excuses, and sometimes outright lying

[prewarboxing]

henry cooper, respectable euro title level fighter, about the size of a lhw today

his popularity is interesting - if you actually listen to him speak he's often very bitter ,full of excuses, and sometimes outright lying

I am not a particular fan of Cooper by any means, he was quite limited in my view, but could you please be a little more specific about your claim that he was guilty of outright lying.

Miles Templeton

[margaret thatcher]

Henry Cooper vs Jose Manuel Urtain (1970) was quite the upset because many people assumed that Henry was too old and that Urtain was already good enough to fight Joe Frazier. Cooper gets busted wide open in the first round but ends up making Urtain quit on his stool. Quite a performance against one of the physically strongest men to ever box professionally as Urtain was a prolific rock lifting champion.

Final comment: Urtain is supposed to be "three inches shorter than Cooper," according to the announcer. But Urtain looks more like four or five inches shorter than Henry, who stood 6'1". My guess is that Urtain was no taller than 5'8" or 5'9."

[HomicideHenry]

Henry Cooper vs Jose Manuel Urtain (1970) was quite the upset because many people assumed that Henry was too old and that Urtain was already good enough to fight Joe Frazier. Cooper gets busted wide open in the first round but ends up making Urtain quit on his stool. Quite a performance against one of the physically strongest men to ever box professionally as Urtain was a prolific rock lifting champion.

I just watched the entire Cooper-Urtain fight. Quite interesting. However, the announcer states throughout that Cooper was an overwhelming favorite to win. In fact, he says that the promoters had a hard time getting Urtain to sign the contract. That's evidence that Urtain and his people knew they were over their heads against Cooper.

I think Urtain's situation going into this fight is that he was a huge draw in Spain, but nowhere else. He was a curiosity in boxing, getting the dubious distinction of being a "white hope" of sorts and making the cover of Ring Magazine. But he really wasn't expected to go far. Urtain's only meaningful win up through this point in time was his European title victory over Jurgen Blin, who was just a top-20 or top-25 fighter.

The big deal concerning Urtain was his marketing potential. My guess is that the Spanish promoters were hoping to cash out with a million dollar payday by enticing Joe Frazier to come to Madrid. That bout, I'm sure everyone knew, would result in poor Jose being decapitated in one or two rounds. But it would have been an ideal cash-out bout for the highly-protected and hugely popular Spaniard in his own TV market.

So, why did Urtain cave in an accept the Cooper bout, a match he and his people knew he'd lose? From what the announcer said, it looks like Harry Levine threw 40,000 pounds sterling (or Euros?) at Urtain. My guess is that Urtain and his handlers realized they wouldn't get Frazier to come to Spain, so the next best financial option was facing Cooper in London.

As for Urtain, he was quite limited. But he bears an uncanny resemblance to Rocky Marciano in appearance, in terms of his physical traits, and in style. On top of that, Urtain probably had one hell of power punch in his left-hook. Too bad Jose lacked the skill and athleticism to land that bomb on a competent fighter's chin, though.

Final comment: Urtain is supposed to be "three inches shorter than Cooper," according to the announcer. But Urtain looks more like four or five inches shorter than Henry, who stood 6'1". My guess is that Urtain was no taller than 5'8" or 5'9."

My recollection, or synopsis, of Urtain comes from an article years ago from either Ring or KO Magazine concerning heavyweights from the past who were thought to be the next big thing but ultimately were exposed due to their limitations.

From memory I think the listing went, partially, as follows: Bill Squires, Bombardier Billy Wells, Carl Morris, Jose Manuel Urtain, Duane Bobick, Mac Foster, Tommy Morrison, Jorge Gonzalez, and Michael Grant.

The section on Urtain was that he was billed as a European/Spanish Marciano and that he had a good shot at being a genuine top contender, if not future champion. Urtain was rated #9 by Ring Magazine in their 1970 annual ratings. Cooper was #6 in those same ratings.

If he had beaten Cooper there's no question that he would've gotten the shot at Frazier, even though his management had already tried to stage a championship match between the two men in Spain but apparently the incentives were not there for Frazier to come over there.

Even though Cooper still had a high rating by 1970 there certainly was the perception that he was long in the tooth, and over the hill. Why his (Urtain's) management balked at the idea of facing Cooper I think may have been more about them wanting to pursue Frazier than anything else rather than them being afraid of losing to Cooper.



A film presentation for Urtain while he was the European champion before facing Henry Cooper in 1970. So there definitely was a lot of hype on the man in Europe. It's pretty incredible watching him handle an Atlas Stone the way that he is.



Interview with Urtain in 1973. He would continue to fight professionally until 1977 losing an additional nine times after the Cooper loss. However, he was able to defeat men like Jack Bodell, Vicente Rondon, Richard Dunn, and had a draw with Jose Roman.



Unfortunately the vast majority of film out there on Urtain is in either Spanish or basque, but there is a documentary about him done many years after his death with some subtitles.

A few more additional facts:

- The government of Spain offered Frazier up to $1,000,000 to defend the title against Urtain in Spain; Frazier (for Bob Foster in 1970) was guaranteed $150,000 against 40 percent of the gate so it was certainly a bad decision financially to not accept the Urtain fight.

- In 1971 Ali went to Spain and did an exhibition boxing match against Gregorio Peralta, and apparently Urtain was at ringside and when the match was over he entered the ring and actually picked Ali up over his head. So far I've not seen a picture of this being done, but I am seeing pictures of Ali and Urtain in the ring.

[Caractacus]

BTW "The Later Years" do you mean that were after what was his last best fight of his career ?
which fight do you think that was ?

[Caractacus]

Perhaps over the last 50 years someone mistaken Urtain with Gorilla Monsoon ?

[prewarboxing]

henry cooper, respectable euro title level fighter, about the size of a lhw today

his popularity is interesting - if you actually listen to him speak he's often very bitter ,full of excuses, and sometimes outright lying

I am not a particular fan of Cooper by any means, he was quite limited in my view, but could you please be a little more specific about your claim that he was guilty of outright lying.

Miles Templeton

We have had someone come on this forum to say that Henry Cooper was an outright liar. I have stated that I am not necessarily a huge fan of Cooper myself and that I think he was a bit limited. But, the man fought three world heavyweight champions, won three Lonsdale Belts outright, was a huge fan favourite and always represented his country well. He is also dead and cannot defend himself. Now, I did not like the way that Cooper reacted to both Harry Gibbs and Joe Bugner after his last contest, but I object to someone calling the man an outright liar. I have had no response from margarethatcher to my question asking him to justify this slur. Am I alone in thinking this is disrespectful? Margarethatcher, I ask again, what is your evidence for calling Henry Cooper an outright liar?

Miles Templeton.

[evrenb]

henry cooper, respectable euro title level fighter, about the size of a lhw today

his popularity is interesting - if you actually listen to him speak he's often very bitter ,full of excuses, and sometimes outright lying

I am not a particular fan of Cooper by any means, he was quite limited in my view, but could you please be a little more specific about your claim that he was guilty of outright lying.

Miles Templeton

We have had someone come on this forum to say that Henry Cooper was an outright liar. I have stated that I am not necessarily a huge fan of Cooper myself and that I think he was a bit limited. But, the man fought three world heavyweight champions, won three Lonsdale Belts outright, was a huge fan favourite and always represented his country well. He is also dead and cannot defend himself. Now, I did not like the way that Cooper reacted to both Harry Gibbs and Joe Bugner after his last contest, but I object to someone calling the man an outright liar. I have had no response from margarethatcher to my question asking him to justify this slur. Am I alone in thinking this is disrespectful? Margarethatcher, I ask again, what is your evidence for calling Henry Cooper an outright liar?

Miles Templeton.

He (she?) Has been very disrespectful of Cleveland Williams also. Obviously never been a boxer. I adore Henry. Many boxers have sour grapes losses. Part of their DNA. But the guy was a hero to many before and after boxing.

[HomicideHenry]

Perhaps over the last 50 years someone mistaken Urtain with Gorilla Monsoon ?

No, I'm quoting from this article:

https://www.boxinginsider.com/history/j ... -overhead/

And so far all I've found is pictures of Ali & Urtain in the ring together but not this famous incident where Urtain lifted Ali overhead. Mind you, Urtain lifted a block weighing 188 kilos (414 pounds) so there's no question he could've easily lifted Ali. But whether it's a myth or not is something to be investigated, but unfortunately I can't read or speak Spanish so it's hard to do so.

[margaret thatcher]

ol hen claimed ali got minutes of extra time to recover between rounds in the whole glove incident, a complete lie, total utter nonsense. not even remotely close to the truth. obviously it stings some people when he's called up on this type dishonesty, as if he's beyond being called on it! it's okay, he's still a hero

[margaret thatcher]

I am not a particular fan of Cooper by any means, he was quite limited in my view, but could you please be a little more specific about your claim that he was guilty of outright lying.

Miles Templeton

We have had someone come on this forum to say that Henry Cooper was an outright liar. I have stated that I am not necessarily a huge fan of Cooper myself and that I think he was a bit limited. But, the man fought three world heavyweight champions, won three Lonsdale Belts outright, was a huge fan favourite and always represented his country well. He is also dead and cannot defend himself. Now, I did not like the way that Cooper reacted to both Harry Gibbs and Joe Bugner after his last contest, but I object to someone calling the man an outright liar. I have had no response from margarethatcher to my question asking him to justify this slur. Am I alone in thinking this is disrespectful? Margarethatcher, I ask again, what is your evidence for calling Henry Cooper an outright liar?

Miles Templeton.

He (she?) Has been very disrespectful of Cleveland Williams also. Obviously never been a boxer. I adore Henry. Many boxers have sour grapes losses. Part of their DNA. But the guy was a hero to many before and after boxing.

even mate, im sorry if i hurt your feelings by calling cleveland williams 'slick' and 'sweet pea'. how about instead i make endless sarcastic comments about how bad today's boxers are? you seem to be down with that my man!

[prewarboxing]

ol hen claimed ali got minutes of extra time to recover between rounds in the whole glove incident, a complete lie, total utter nonsense. not even remotely close to the truth. obviously it stings some people when he's called up on this type dishonesty, as if he's beyond being called on it! it's okay, he's still a hero

Is that your evidence? Cooper never stated that Ali had "minutes of extra time". Show me where he said that. Do you actually know anything at all about professional boxing or do you just like to continually trash ex-fighters who were around before you were born? It is the easiest thing in the world to hide behind some random username and profess to be an expert, but from what I have seen you just seem to spout garbage. By the way, evrenb does not need a safe space, he just needs someone knowledgeable to debate with. You are not that person.

Miles Templeton

[margaret thatcher]

ol hen claimed ali got minutes of extra time to recover between rounds in the whole glove incident, a complete lie, total utter nonsense. not even remotely close to the truth. obviously it stings some people when he's called up on this type dishonesty, as if he's beyond being called on it! it's okay, he's still a hero

Is that your evidence? Cooper never stated that Ali had "minutes of extra time". Show me where he said that. Do you actually know anything at all about professional boxing or do you just like to continually trash ex-fighters who were around before you were born? It is the easiest thing in the world to hide behind some random username and profess to be an expert, but from what I have seen you just seem to spout garbage. By the way, evrenb does not need a safe space, he just needs someone knowledgeable to debate with. You are not that person.

Miles Templeton

He did my man, he told the BBC and also told Steve Bunce the same thing. he went on about it for years despite an abundance of evidence to the contrary. Obviously for some people he's on a mighty pedestal where anyone calling him out on blatant mistruth it is treated as some scummy piece of garbage. see your screed to me before i'd even got to responding the next day (im sorry for such a long ,never ending wait)


https://www.bbc.com/news/16985467

nothing i throw at past fighters here is any much different than what evern and the bois throw at today's fighters, if we're being honest. page after page of over the top criticisms and sarcasms directed towards active fighters, and yet i make some sarcastic comments about cleveland williams and suddenly it's gone too far for evern , ha!

and btw, those comments about williams, like those on henry, were fully justified, he was defensively very open, to suggest he was tough to hit and good on defense is laughable


added:

from the man himself - 6 seconds extra turns into 15 times that, and he describes a whole sequence o f events which simply didnt happen

[HomicideHenry]

The glove story has become rather mythic overtime where people have said as much as 5 minutes elapsed. The truth is more mundane. I think the time elapsed to replace the glove was 45 additional seconds between rounds (1:45)--- however because the film was edited to make the fight sequences move along faster, it gave life to this myth that Ali needed several minutes to recuperate.

The myth has also grown in more details over time, where it was claimed somebody had to go to the locker room to get a new glove to replace the torn one--- when the reality is there was a pair of gloves sitting at ringside.

The rules of boxing dictate that if the gloves are ever damaged that they are to be replaced, therefore sets of gloves are always at ringside just in case such an occurrence should happen.

I'm sure as far as Henry Cooper was concerned had it just been a one minute interval between rounds he could have jumped right back on Cassius Clay and knocked him out, but I'm not so sure he would've.

It's kind of like the long count controversy between Dempsey and Tunney, where Dempsey was absolutely convinced if Tunney got up before the count of ten he'd of knocked him out. But Tunney had great recuperating powers and so did Clay, so I think the result would have been the same regardless.

[Controversial]

I think the time elapsed to replace the glove was 45 additional seconds between rounds (1:45)--- however because the film was edited to make the fight sequences move along faster, it gave life to this myth that Ali needed several minutes to recuperate.

It was about 5 or 6 seconds

[margaret thatcher]

the bbc (i think it was them) went through and found the original radio broadcast to get another source, and counted a minute 6 seconds as well. there is no evidence to support henry coop's mistruthful claim that ali got 15 times the recovery period that he actually did

[HomicideHenry]

I think the time elapsed to replace the glove was 45 additional seconds between rounds (1:45)--- however because the film was edited to make the fight sequences move along faster, it gave life to this myth that Ali needed several minutes to recuperate.

It was about 5 or 6 seconds

According to the BoxRec wiki on the match:

What happened next became ring folklore. Clay was in a bad way and was helped to his stool by trainer Angelo Dundee, who slapped his legs and gave him smelling salts in the corner. Clay looked in shock: wide eyes staring in bewilderment.

Dundee called the referee over to the corner and told him Clay had a torn right glove. Some have accused Dundee of tearing the glove to get Clay more time to clear his head, but the films of the fight prove that the glove had been split in the fourth round. However, Dundee later admitted that he stuck his finger in split glove, causing a slightly bigger split.

It has been reported that officials went back to the dressing room to get a pair of replacement gloves, but they were unable to find a pair. However, Teddy Waltham, then General Secretary of the British Boxing Board of Control, said that is not true.

"Referee Little was called to Clay's corner, and then shouted to us officials at ringside for a new pair, which I already had quite near," Waltham said. "There was no question of anyone having to go to the dressing room to get them, as has been suggested."

Harry Vines, who later became Chief Inspector for the BBBofC, also said that there were a suitable pair of replacement gloves at ringside. "I am not sure whether both gloves were replaced or just the split one, but the latter certainly was," he said. "Certainly no one had to go all the way back to the dressing room to get a pair."

It has also been reported that five minutes passed before the fifth round started, but ringside timekeeper Stan Courtney said that is false. "At no time was I instructed to stop my watch to allow for the refitting of the gloves," he said. "Therefore, I waited until I got the signal from referee Little to ring the bell. When I did so, my watch showed that the interval between rounds had in fact been 1:40."

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Muha ... 20a%20King

I stand corrected it was a minute 40 not a minute 45, but nevertheless the official timekeeper for the event himself said that it was longer than any five or six seconds.

As I said earlier the footage was edited out so that the fight sequence could happen like it normally would had there been no issue or problem.

[margaret thatcher]

the original bbc radio broadcast has a 1 minute 6 second interval, the actual film of the fight is a 1 minute 6 second interval. the total time between rounds is 1 minute 6 seconds. you can look at the crowd and see there's no sudden shift where people are in different positions/poses too, which would happen if it was skipping. it's the full stuff

but still, even if it was 1:40 total, it's not as long as henry c wouldve had you believe!

[Controversial]

I stand corrected it was a minute 40 not a minute 45, but nevertheless the official timekeeper for the event himself said that it was longer than any five or six seconds.

As I said earlier the footage was edited out so that the fight sequence could happen like it normally would had there been no issue or problem.

There was a thread about this, as Margaret Thatcher said the original radio commentary was later unearthed and that was only 5 or 6 seconds longer, same as the YouTube footage shows. I can only assume the timekeeper story was incorrect or they were mistaken.

[nobleart1978]

In his 1972 autobiography Cooper wrote:

"about 45 seconds went by as the stewards went looking for another pair of gloves, which is a lifetime to a fit man to get himself together".

[HomicideHenry]

I stand corrected it was a minute 40 not a minute 45, but nevertheless the official timekeeper for the event himself said that it was longer than any five or six seconds.

As I said earlier the footage was edited out so that the fight sequence could happen like it normally would had there been no issue or problem.

There was a thread about this, as Margaret Thatcher said the original radio commentary was later unearthed and that was only 5 or 6 seconds longer, same as the YouTube footage shows. I can only assume the timekeeper story was incorrect or they were mistaken.

Then BoxRec needs to update the facts, rather than keep the myth ongoing. However, it's plausible that the audio tape could've been spliced and re-edited to be 1:06 but since we can't examine the tape ourselves we have to assume 1:06 is the legitimate time.

[evrenb]

We have had someone come on this forum to say that Henry Cooper was an outright liar. I have stated that I am not necessarily a huge fan of Cooper myself and that I think he was a bit limited. But, the man fought three world heavyweight champions, won three Lonsdale Belts outright, was a huge fan favourite and always represented his country well. He is also dead and cannot defend himself. Now, I did not like the way that Cooper reacted to both Harry Gibbs and Joe Bugner after his last contest, but I object to someone calling the man an outright liar. I have had no response from margarethatcher to my question asking him to justify this slur. Am I alone in thinking this is disrespectful? Margarethatcher, I ask again, what is your evidence for calling Henry Cooper an outright liar?

Miles Templeton.

He (she?) Has been very disrespectful of Cleveland Williams also. Obviously never been a boxer. I adore Henry. Many boxers have sour grapes losses. Part of their DNA. But the guy was a hero to many before and after boxing.

even mate, im sorry if i hurt your feelings by calling cleveland williams 'slick' and 'sweet pea'. how about instead i make endless sarcastic comments about how bad today's boxers are? you seem to be down with that my man!

You may be getting mixed up with someone else? I do not make endless sarcastic comments about how bad today's boxers are. I in fact praise Tyson Fury. I simply say that a prime Ali would beat him. My opinion.

That you seem to attack and pick on such a fine fighter like Cleveland Williams and now Henry is just horrible in my view. I met Henry and he was just an adorable human being. My uncle new Henry and all he could ever say was positive things
about him. He was a hero in many peoples eyes. The news at that time of the 1st Ali fight stated a long break and Henry erroneously held on to that ; the myth perpetuated. It has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum . BBC disproved it. Boxing News disproved it. Myself and Klompton for example have disproved it too. It has been proven to be a 66 second break. So what? Doesn't make someone a bad person or an outright liar does it .

[margaret thatcher]

In his 1972 autobiography Cooper wrote:

"about 45 seconds went by as the stewards went looking for another pair of gloves, which is a lifetime to a fit man to get himself together".

seems like the time got longer each year then!

[writehooks]

I would have a lot more respect for Cooper if he hadn't so blatantly ducked George Chuvalo, who repeatedly challenged him to put the Commonwealth title on the line. In the 12 years that Cooper held the Commonwealth crown (1959-71), he defended it 10 times, including three fights against Joe Erskine and two against feather-fisted Jack Bodell. For 10 of those 12 years, Chuvalo was ranked ahead of him in both the world and Commonwealth ratings. After watching Chuvalo beat up Joe Bygraves in 1965, Cooper told The Sun newspaper: "Chuvalo is ugly ... a dirty roughhouser, like Liston." He repeated that assessment in his autobiography, writing: "As we always said, George was too ugly -- we only liked good-looking fighters! Anyway, that was as good an excuse as any. Chuvalo was a rough handful."
Of course, knowing full well that Chuvalo would have punched holes in him , you really can't blame Henry for taking the easy out...