Untapped areas UK/Ire boxing

[dookus]

I wouldn't be that familar with it but I wonder does it lack large enough urban centres. May also be again a lack of good or many boxing gyms. No football team of note either.

It's quite hard to penetrate rural areas too. I'm from rural area in Ireland, boxing would be more popular here plenty of clubs in small towns and villages. But it's hard to keep the lights on, the numbers wouldn't be there. And anyone moving up to any standard would need better gyms and training elsewhere.

Yeah very good points. Mostly it's small towns and villages, not many boxing gyms, and people don't have £40 to spend on tickets for small hall shows anyway. Nearest promoter of note is Chris Sanigar 150 miles away in Bristol.

Would there be much happening in Bristol itself mate? Two of the bigger cities that stood as not being mentioned much are Bristol and Edinburgh. Big enough populations. Never been but my impression is there a bit touristy/posh and full of university students.

I know Josh Taylor is from near Edinburgh. He's a Hibs fan and wants to fight at Easter road. Wonder why his fights are mostly in Glasgow not Edinburgh though.

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

[Fray Bentos]

Surprised no-one has mentioned Newcastle... more of an amatuer boxing city than pro boxing (same as Birmingham...)

[bennie]

Yeah very good points. Mostly it's small towns and villages, not many boxing gyms, and people don't have £40 to spend on tickets for small hall shows anyway. Nearest promoter of note is Chris Sanigar 150 miles away in Bristol.

Would there be much happening in Bristol itself mate? Two of the bigger cities that stood as not being mentioned much are Bristol and Edinburgh. Big enough populations. Never been but my impression is there a bit touristy/posh and full of university students.

I know Josh Taylor is from near Edinburgh. He's a Hibs fan and wants to fight at Easter road. Wonder why his fights are mostly in Glasgow not Edinburgh though.

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

Bristol had a trio of cracking amateur boxing clubs back in the day. Sanigar boxed for the Empire club and reached an ABA final in 1977, where he was outscored by the Scot Jim Douglas, and also boxed three times for England. In one of those internationals, against Romania, Chris was ruled out with a cut eye by the doctor and promptly hit the unfortunate doctor, all on BBC television. Seconds later, Chris returned sobbing and hugged the man. That is Chris Sanigar, a very emotional guy.
Bobby Jones boxed for the Hartcliffe club and proved an outstanding England man over many, many years. In a multi-nation tournament in Berlin in 1980, southpaw Bobby beat a Cuban, an East German and a Russian in the space of a few days to win the whole event.
Nick Wilshire boxed for National Smelting, winning an ABA title and brilliant gold in the European junior championships in Italy in 1980. He took silver in the world junior championships in Japan in 1979, where he was beaten by Alfred "Superbad" Mays in the final.

[peter barlow]

Surprised no-one has mentioned Newcastle... more of an amatuer boxing city than pro boxing (same as Birmingham...)

That's true, although the noise from Sky/Boxxer is that is a target area for them for shows/fighters going forward.

[stu 27]

Hulton Abbey (Which is now in City Centre)
Impact (Scott Lawton’s Gym)
Queensbury (probably the best known one )
There are quite a few of them gyms that have just popped up as they do, ones that I don’t think have Am boxers more white collar in Stoke

Near by Newcastle Under Lyme has Both Silverdale and Orme (Heaney Boxed here i think )and then Leek has Keatsy (former area champion)Boxing Academy. There may be more but those are the ones from stoke and surrounding area I know of.

Your point about the white collar gyms is the same in Birmingham,loads about now at the detriment to amateur gyms

I know a very good amateur looking for sparring in the West Midlands. He's lived up here for a while but returned home. He will spar pros at any level as well. 10st.

He could try east side or Black Country Boxing
Atherstone gym has pros and ams,not to sure of the amount of either though there

[mickey1975]

I seem to remember when Wharton came through they kept comparing him to Wilshire. I think, anyway.

[Coco]

Yeah very good points. Mostly it's small towns and villages, not many boxing gyms, and people don't have £40 to spend on tickets for small hall shows anyway. Nearest promoter of note is Chris Sanigar 150 miles away in Bristol.

Would there be much happening in Bristol itself mate? Two of the bigger cities that stood as not being mentioned much are Bristol and Edinburgh. Big enough populations. Never been but my impression is there a bit touristy/posh and full of university students.

I know Josh Taylor is from near Edinburgh. He's a Hibs fan and wants to fight at Easter road. Wonder why his fights are mostly in Glasgow not Edinburgh though.

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

Only Catley and Haskins were from Bristol!
Also Adrian Stone and Darren Dorrington were also from there.

[dookus]

Would there be much happening in Bristol itself mate? Two of the bigger cities that stood as not being mentioned much are Bristol and Edinburgh. Big enough populations. Never been but my impression is there a bit touristy/posh and full of university students.

I know Josh Taylor is from near Edinburgh. He's a Hibs fan and wants to fight at Easter road. Wonder why his fights are mostly in Glasgow not Edinburgh though.

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

Only Catley and Haskins were from Bristol!
Also Adrian Stone and Darren Dorrington were also from there.

Fair enough. Maybe outside London the trope about us southern softies has got something to it

[bennie]

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

Bristol had a trio of cracking amateur boxing clubs back in the day. Sanigar boxed for the Empire club and reached an ABA final in 1977, where he was outscored by the Scot Jim Douglas, and also boxed three times for England. In one of those internationals, against Romania, Chris was ruled out with a cut eye by the doctor and promptly hit the unfortunate doctor, all on BBC television. Seconds later, Chris returned sobbing and hugged the man. That is Chris Sanigar, a very emotional guy.
Bobby Jones boxed for the Hartcliffe club and proved an outstanding England man over many, many years. In a multi-nation tournament in Berlin in 1980, southpaw Bobby beat a Cuban, an East German and a Russian in the space of a few days to win the whole event.
Nick Wilshire boxed for National Smelting, winning an ABA title and brilliant gold in the European junior championships in Italy in 1980. He took silver in the world junior championships in Japan in 1979, where he was beaten by Alfred "Superbad" Mays in the final.

Nick Wilshire as an outstanding amateur but somehow it didn't quite translate into the pros. I remember Wilshire quitting the game after losing to Lloyd Hibbert (for a second time) and being adamant and that he'd never come back - and he never did.

Can't have been that old when he packed it in, do you know what he went on to do afterwards, Bennie?

I don't, mate. Wilshire took his bird to a few photo-shoots prior to his biggest fights and I can only assume that he settled down and raised a family in the 30-plus years since he walked away. No news is good news with ex-fighters. (Wilshire's big amateur rival, Cameron Lithgow of Swindon, has unfortunately made the news.)
Wilshire signed with Mickey Duff after the 1980 Olympics in Moscow, where he reached the quarter-finals, and traded on strength, aggression and courage in the pro ranks but lacked the something extra needed to take him to the top. He was unbeaten when Jimmy Cable climbed up from two knockdowns to narrowly outpoint him in a 10-rounder at Wembley in 1983 (on a bill topped by Frank Bruno bowling over Scott Ledoux). It was thrilling fare and the two met again a year later and Cable gave another gritty display to bag a more convincing decision and the British light-middleweight title relinquished by an injured Prince Rodney (injured in a sparring session with Mark Kaylor).
Promoter Duff had the clout to bring Wilshire back with a cuts win over Aussie Ken Salisbury for the Commonwealth title (Salisbury is a Scouser who emigrated) but Nick struggled to outpoint the useful Gary Cooper in a subsequent 10-rounder and was then pulled out against erratic but talented Midlander Lloyd Hibbert after eight rounds at the Albert Hall in 1986. Nick gave it one last throw of the dice in a rematch with Hibbert and this time switched tactics and boxed his man. It nearly worked but Hibbert edged the 12-rounder and Wilshire made the decision to call it quits.

[Deserter]

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

I think the impact of gentrification can be overstated. I know Bristol really well having worked there, as well as boxed on a few shows in the city and trained at gyms like the Empire back in the day. Places like Bedminster and Knowle have definitely experienced some gentrification, but the big estates in places like Southmead, Hartcliffe and Lawrence Weston are pretty much the same as they were back in the day - I'm exaggerating to make the point, but the idea that a few wine bars and vegetarian restaurants popping up in an area up the road has any real impact on those estates just doesn't ring true. My wife's family all live in east Bristol and they'll be aware of city centre regeneration etc, but in terms of impact of their everyday lives it's zero - may as well be happening on the moon.
The reality is that Bristol has never had a boxing 'culture' in the way that similarly sized places like Sheffield and Liverpool clearly have and I don't think there is any simple answer for that, which I find fascinating in itself. You can actually extend it further and if you look at Bristol in terms of football, music etc, it's far more low key (for want of a better phrase) than those other cities.
BTW, I felt it was Ross Hale's success in the early 90s that really led to a brief period of pro boxing having a real presence in Bristol - people tend to overlook him in favour of Catley and Haskins, but he was the Ricky Hatton equivalent in Bristol who really managed to pull in a new crowd that's never really been replicated before or since. Worth noting that he was from Kingswood in east Bristol and Catley from Frampton Cotterell, a village just outside the city - both pretty working-class areas, but definitely not among the worst areas in Bristol.
BTW Bennie, great knowledge again, as those clubs you've mentioned were fantastic back in the day. Though sadly even when I was a novice am back in the mid 90s I would say that the Empire and Hartcliffe were already on the decline at that point (Empire was increasingly a pro hang-out, with likes of Catley and Dean Francis). National Smelting was the top club in the city at that point IMO. Broad Plain was good as well.

[dookus]

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

I think the impact of gentrification can be overstated. I know Bristol really well having worked there, as well as boxed on a few shows in the city and trained at gyms like the Empire back in the day. Places like Bedminster and Knowle have definitely experienced some gentrification, but the big estates in places like Southmead, Hartcliffe and Lawrence Weston are pretty much the same as they were back in the day - I'm exaggerating to make the point, but the idea that a few wine bars and vegetarian restaurants popping up in an area up the road has any real impact on those estates just doesn't ring true. My wife's family all live in east Bristol and they'll be aware of city centre regeneration etc, but in terms of impact of their everyday lives it's zero - may as well be happening on the moon.
The reality is that Bristol has never had a boxing 'culture' in the way that similarly sized places like Sheffield and Liverpool clearly have and I don't think there is any simple answer for that, which I find fascinating in itself. You can actually extend it further and if you look at Bristol in terms of football, music etc, it's far more low key (for want of a better phrase) than those other cities.
BTW, I felt it was Ross Hale's success in the early 90s that really led to a brief period of pro boxing having a real presence in Bristol - people tend to overlook him in favour of Catley and Haskins, but he was the Ricky Hatton equivalent in Bristol who really managed to pull in a new crowd that's never really been replicated before or since. Worth noting that he was from Kingswood in east Bristol and Catley from Frampton Cotterell, a village just outside the city - both pretty working-class areas, but definitely not among the worst areas in Bristol.
BTW Bennie, great knowledge again, as those clubs you've mentioned were fantastic back in the day. Though sadly even when I was a novice am back in the mid 90s I would say that the Empire and Hartcliffe were already on the decline at that point (Empire was increasingly a pro hang-out, with likes of Catley and Dean Francis). National Smelting was the top club in the city at that point IMO. Broad Plain was good as well.

Thanks for the insight!

[mickey1975]

Sheffield is still crazy with it now, and it's not all about the ingles. Not at all.
Leeds isn't what it should be for it's size, but Josh has started a resurgence.

[Deserter]

Bristol had plenty of very rough areas in the 90s/00s, and Sanigar did manage quite a few world-class fighters - Dean Francis, Scott Dann, Glenn Catley, Lee Haskins, the Selby brothers. The heyday seems to be a good few years ago now though.

I do get the impression though that Bristol's been gentrified much more than other cities in the last ten years, mostly by uni / media types fleeing London, so maybe it's no longer the kind of place that would support much of a boxing scene. Bear in mind in the South of England it's no. 2 after London (450,000 people) which still makes it considerably smaller than most of the Midlands / Northern cities.

I think the impact of gentrification can be overstated. I know Bristol really well having worked there, as well as boxed on a few shows in the city and trained at gyms like the Empire back in the day. Places like Bedminster and Knowle have definitely experienced some gentrification, but the big estates in places like Southmead, Hartcliffe and Lawrence Weston are pretty much the same as they were back in the day - I'm exaggerating to make the point, but the idea that a few wine bars and vegetarian restaurants popping up in an area up the road has any real impact on those estates just doesn't ring true. My wife's family all live in east Bristol and they'll be aware of city centre regeneration etc, but in terms of impact of their everyday lives it's zero - may as well be happening on the moon.
The reality is that Bristol has never had a boxing 'culture' in the way that similarly sized places like Sheffield and Liverpool clearly have and I don't think there is any simple answer for that, which I find fascinating in itself. You can actually extend it further and if you look at Bristol in terms of football, music etc, it's far more low key (for want of a better phrase) than those other cities.
BTW, I felt it was Ross Hale's success in the early 90s that really led to a brief period of pro boxing having a real presence in Bristol - people tend to overlook him in favour of Catley and Haskins, but he was the Ricky Hatton equivalent in Bristol who really managed to pull in a new crowd that's never really been replicated before or since. Worth noting that he was from Kingswood in east Bristol and Catley from Frampton Cotterell, a village just outside the city - both pretty working-class areas, but definitely not among the worst areas in Bristol.
BTW Bennie, great knowledge again, as those clubs you've mentioned were fantastic back in the day. Though sadly even when I was a novice am back in the mid 90s I would say that the Empire and Hartcliffe were already on the decline at that point (Empire was increasingly a pro hang-out, with likes of Catley and Dean Francis). National Smelting was the top club in the city at that point IMO. Broad Plain was good as well.

Thanks for the insight!

Phew! I was worried I'd geeked out a bit mate, so thank you
Have to be careful as I could spend hours debating about how certain cultures or sub-cultures develop and why... genuinely find it fascinating.
Mickey, your example of Leeds and Sheffield is a great one, as such a disparity given their proximity etc.

[mickey1975]

Leeds are coming with a vengeance. But most are travelling boys who generally drift away young. Hopey will hopefully change that.

[Pugilist-specialist]

Sheffield is still crazy with it now, and it's not all about the ingles. Not at all.

There's a lot of gyms and trainers in Sheffield with links to the Ingle gym.

[peter barlow]

Some fascinating posts above lads fair play. Hard to top local knowledge

[mickey1975]

Sheffield is still crazy with it now, and it's not all about the ingles. Not at all.

There's a lot of gyms and trainers in Sheffield with links to the Ingle gym.

I never said there wasn't. Just they weren't all Wincobank. I rate Grant Smith as the most underrated trainer in England.

[dookus]

Leeds are coming with a vengeance. But most are travelling boys who generally drift away young. Hopey will hopefully change that.

I really hope so. I trained at Tigers for a while about a decade ago when I studied in Leeds, saw Warrington come in once for training, saw a young Jack Daniel sparring too (shame his career seems to have stalled), heard about the amateur talent (e.g. in Burmantofts) but was always a bit surprised at the lack of a wider pro scene. Great to see it coming together, and Hopey looks like the real thing.

[a force]

Leeds has been really poor. The only 3 of any note in the last 10 years have been Warrington, Adams & Ajisafe & the last two have done now I think.

All across the Midlands has been pretty poor for the amount of towns & cities there are but Galal Yafai, Frazer Clarke & Ben Whittaker should change all that plus ticket sellers like Heaney & Parker doing well & Leigh Wood getting a big win.

[a force]

Speaking of the Olympians it seems weird that of the team GB took to Rio only Peter McGrail has turned pro.

Would’ve expected at least 3 or 4 to have announced something by now.

[jameswilson]

Speaking of the Olympians it seems weird that of the team GB took to Rio only Peter McGrail has turned pro.

Would’ve expected at least 3 or 4 to have announced something by now.

If we see some of them turning over soon and when they get on the scales for their first weigh in the words ‘Jesus they look jacked to f uck’ get typed here then our questions are answered.

[mickey1975]

Leeds are coming with a vengeance. But most are travelling boys who generally drift away young. Hopey will hopefully change that.

I really hope so. I trained at Tigers for a while about a decade ago when I studied in Leeds, saw Warrington come in once for training, saw a young Jack Daniel sparring too (shame his career seems to have stalled), heard about the amateur talent (e.g. in Burmantofts) but was always a bit surprised at the lack of a wider pro scene. Great to see it coming together, and Hopey looks like the real thing.

Ajisafe is from Darlington. Carl J was a boyo. Burmantofts produces loads of champions. My gym in Leeds is Hunslet. Seriously good kids, but I've seen it all before. Danny James retired because he lost in his 13th fight and is superstitious..... Levi Pattison retired just as he was hitting the big time. Said he was earning more elsewhere. Hopey has a brother coming through, England rep.

[Boxingcutsman]

Was surprised to find out Kal Yafai was Birmingham’s first world champion, working class city of over a million people you’d have expected it to have produced a fair few, Liverpool Manchester Sheffield Edinburgh all smaller with more world champions

That's mad, I would have thought the same. Frankie Gavin never reached that level. I suppose success breeds success like in places like Sheffield. Good gyms and training can be an issue.

Seems to be on the up now Birmingham, a lot of shows and prospects coming through.

Joe Costello was another top amateur who I thought would do big things as a pro, pretty sure he got injured out the ring though

Unfortunately Joe did & that’s what ended his career sadly to soon, great talent, tough, could punch, would of been great to see him go far, very nice kid too, good friend of mine has is his dad, good people, he’s doing very well though for himself & owns a thriving business so thankfully he’s come out on top

[Boxingcutsman]

I know a very good amateur looking for sparring in the West Midlands. He's lived up here for a while but returned home. He will spar pros at any level as well. 10st.

Loads of gyms for him both pro & amateur to get some great sparring at in the midlands & surrounding, Errol Johnson’s gym in wednesbury, pleck ABC in Walsall, Pat benson boxing academy in Birmingham, Aston ABC, Red corner gym Coventry, bell green gym Coventry, gyms in Leamington, Stoke, Wolverhampton, John Costello gym in Birmingham, the list is endless really for him

[Boxingcutsman]

Portsmouth is another area that seems like is unexplored talent wise.

Over here I reckon Derry, pretty deprived area struggling to think of much since Paul McCloskey. I'd also throw in Dublin not deprived as such in most areas. But for sheer size and history, the Pro Boxing scene is not producing much. Most of the best Irish boxers in recent years aren't even Dubs.

Parts of Dublin are very tough & deprived, produced & still is some great fighters, Steve Collins, Paul Griffin, Bernard Dunne, Kelly Harrington, Darren Sutherland, quite a few really, could name more, Dublin not that big of a place at all really, My cousin is a great prospect born & raised in Dublin & boxes out of Crumlin boxing club, just boxed again here in Birmingham on Show on Saturday just gone, had his second fight, he’s a right handful he is and will be very exciting pro, keep a eye out for him, willo Hayden is his name