When was Wladimir Klitschko's prime over?

[DrDuke]

Wladimir Klitschko will be remembered as a highly dominant hegemon and an ATG, at least by more or less open-minded boxing fans and observers. He was the man of the HW division for a decade and it was hard to pick any of his contenders over him during his reign. Can anyone remember him being an underdog for the last time, not counting the Joshua bout?

However, recently it's possible to find quite frequent speculations, that Wladimir looked like he had escaped the nursing home at the later stages of his career. Most often you can see such arguments from different experts in the context of attempting to discredit Tyson Fury's legacy. But when was Wladimir Klitschko's prime really over?

In my opinion, Wlad has never shown significant signs of decline through his entire career. He lost some bouts earlier in his career because of his chin issues and tactical flaws. He was in the physical prime by the early 2000s, yet he wasn't in the fighting prime. Wlad reached his peak by the second half of the 2000s, after he had teamed up with Emanuel Steward and had finally realized himself as a boxer.

I find Klitschko's career a very safe one. It's fair to notice, that he was fighting in the era of comparably easy competition. He had never taken parts in wars until his final bout. He either dominated his opponents or was caught and stopped. He didn't have any life-taking battles during his reign. This along with a fact of him being a dedicated athlete caused Wlad to remain in shape for all time and to acquire career longevity, which could be compared with the cases of Bernard Hopkins, who had been a champion in his 40s, and Floyd Mayweather, who had retired on top at 38.

All Klitschko's championship wins were absolutely one-sided up to the Jennings bout and including it. Fury wasn't being taken seriously by fans, observers, other experts and Klitschko himself before their fight. Eventually Fury was just a better boxer that night. After that Klitschko was able to provide a greater effort in the Joshua fight, where he lost once again because he was caught, but not outboxed. All mentioned points make it impossible for me to say, that Klitschko has ever declined significantly. If he didn't retire at the absolute peak, he still did it in time, being in very good conditions anyway.

So, what do you think on this subject?

[Ruthless-RKO]

If there was no Tyson Fury, He probably would have reigned a few more years.

[HomicideHenry]

Personally I did not think he was slipping because Klitschko was one of those guys who would have a great win followed by boring wins. So when he knocked out Pulev (5th round) he looked as dominant as he always was, and then he won a boring decision over Bryant Jennings.

That was the infuriating thing about Wladimir. He'd look great one day and then put on stinkers. If someone wasn't really pressing him, he was content to just jab-and-clinch.

Going into the Fury fight there were very little people who gave Fury a shot at winning. The remark was, basically, "Fury's size and awkwardness will give Klitschko problems but Klitschko will figure him out and start to take over the fight."

People didn't believe based on his resume that he could beat Klitschko. If he did win it'd have to be by knockout, because Klitschko was too good of a boxer-tactician. That was the mindset going into the fight in Munich, Germany.

Klitschko constantly had the jab in his face, and Fury was constantly moving around. Klitschko constantly having to reset himself. He was never really in a position to throw power punches. And whenever Fury threw more than two punches Klitschko would force a clinch.

It wasn't pretty. It wasn't exciting. It was oftentimes dull and boring. But it was an effective strategy. Even with a point deduction against Fury, you could not at any point really say that Klitschko was in the contest. With maybe the exception of the last few moments of the final round.

Fast forward a year later, Klitschko puts on a breathtaking brawl with Anthony Joshua and nearly regains the title that Fury vacated. Unfortunately he let Joshua off the hook, and paid the price for it.

Joshua, in the minds of the public was "better" than Fury--- having been an Olympic gold medalist with a string of knockouts--- so as far as people were concerned Klitschko had to have been not only more motivated than he had been in years, but was better than he was the night he fought Tyson Fury.

Retrospectively, my view is that Joshua was tailor made for Klitschko since he was slower and more of a stationary target willing to trade bombs than Fury was--- so of course Klitschko was going to look better than he did the night he fought Tyson Fury. Styles make fights.

Fury simply took away the strengths that Klitschko possessed and gotten under his skin in the pre-fight buildup and during the match, and did what everybody deemed impossible: out-boxing a master class tactician.

Sorry for the long post, but I would generally say that Klitschko was not really on the decline when he faced Tyson Fury based on the performance he had with Joshua a year later.

Of course now we see the flaws and "worth" of Anthony Joshua, but still see him as one of the top three or four heavyweights in the world. Fury of course came back and arguably is a more well-rounded fighter than he was in 2015, but his career is not over and there is the possibility that he will change styles again reverting back to a more fluid moving style now that there are threats like Usyk out there.

But anyways look at the record of Wladimir Klitschko. Guys you would think he could have knocked out easily, he'd let go the distance. Which is why so many people were infuriated with the championship reign of Klitschko because he was content to be a chess player in the ring rather than an exciting knockout artist that he was more than capable of doing.

Jennings- Decision
Pulev- Knockout
Leapai- Knockout
Povetkin- Decision
Pianeta- Knockout
Wach- Decision
Thompson- Knockout
Mormeck- Knockout
Haye- Decision

I think you get the picture. It seemed to be consistent with how Klitschko performed. He would have knock outs, and then have decisions. And a lot of those decisions could have been knockouts if he only let his hands go. But he was content in being gun shy more times than not.

He's been hinting at making a comeback to break George Foreman's record ever since Joshua, and he's still in tremendous shape. Whether he will or won't is anyone's guess, but he has always been a fitness nut--- which is why he was able to compete at a world class level into the age of 40.

You may as well ask, "When was Hopkins and Moore no longer in their prime?," because that is basically what we are dealing with here.

[DrDuke]

If there was no Tyson Fury, He probably would have reigned a few more years.

Very likely so.

[DrDuke]

But anyways look at the record of Wladimir Klitschko. Guys you would think he could have knocked out easily, he'd let go the distance. Which is why so many people were infuriated with the championship reign of Klitschko because he was content to be a chess player in the ring rather than an exciting knockout artist that he was more than capable of doing.

Well, Wach has always been a freakishly well-chinned, but look at the Haye fight, David was hurt the most early on. And the Povetkin one is even more bizarre, as Povetkin was looking ready to go for the majority of the fight, while Klitschko was clinching more than any other time ever. I'm even a bit into a conspiracy theory, that Wlad was paid for not KOing Povetkin in front of Sasha's crowd.

[HomicideHenry]

But anyways look at the record of Wladimir Klitschko. Guys you would think he could have knocked out easily, he'd let go the distance. Which is why so many people were infuriated with the championship reign of Klitschko because he was content to be a chess player in the ring rather than an exciting knockout artist that he was more than capable of doing.

Well, Wach has always been a freakishly well-chinned, but look at the Haye fight, David was hurt the most early on. And the Povetkin one is even more bizarre, as Povetkin was looking ready to go for the majority of the fight, while Klitschko was clinching more than any other time ever. I'm even a bit into a conspiracy theory, that Wlad was paid for not KOing Povetkin in front of Sasha's crowd.

The Haye fight was especially disappointing. After all the talk about knockouts and retribution it was basically a glorified sparring session. If Klitschko let his hands go he most likely would have knocked out Haye.

Like I said it was characteristic of Klitschko to put on chess matches when it was winnable by kayo. So when people argue he was "passed his prime", they either are grasping at straws because their argument isn't strong enough or they don't know what they're talking about.

He could've knocked out a lot of guys but simply refused to do it. Jennings was knocked out by Ortiz immediately after the Klitschko fight, for example. There was something in Klitschko's character that never was quite the same after losing to Sanders and Brewster.

[DrDuke]

He could've knocked out a lot of guys but simply refused to do it. Jennings was knocked out by Ortiz immediately after the Klitschko fight, for example. There was something in Klitschko's character that never was quite the same after losing to Sanders and Brewster.

That's understandable. Pragmatism helped him to avoid what had happened in the Sanders and Brewster bouts. He built a reign on his tactical approach. He was successful without risks, so he decided to keep the safety-first game.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I think the early career KO losses played a big part in Wlad's late career, going the distance etc.

He was probably always a little worried about his chin.

Manny really did help him and changed his style, like he did Lewis.

You cant knock them all out can you.

I remember the Eddie Chambers fight, this was before Haye I believe.

He was coasting every round and Manny criticized him for doing so.

Rd12 came and Wlad stepped on the gas and managed to get the fight stopped on his feet.

[HomicideHenry]

No, you can't knock them all out. But, I think it is not unreasonable to say that if Klitschko put on the gas a bit more he would have had a higher knockout percentage than he did or would have knocked out opponents faster than he did.

[Ambling Alp II]

I think the early career KO losses played a big part in Wlad's late career, going the distance etc.

He was probably always a little worried about his chin.

Manny really did help him and changed his style, like he did Lewis.

You cant knock them all out can you.

I remember the Eddie Chambers fight, this was before Haye I believe.

He was coasting every round and Manny criticized him for doing so.

Rd12 came and Wlad stepped on the gas and managed to get the fight stopped on his feet.

Pretty much agree with this. (Though more with Klitschko than Lewis) Steward knew Klitschko had a weak chin and his stamina wasn't much better. He could minimize the risk by fighting safety first, including more clinching. He also would not get as tired in the late rounds because he was fighting at a much slower pace. He could get away that with this against the weak-mediocre competition that he fought, so it made sense. If he was fighting someone who couldn't punch at all., he could afford to be more aggressive.

As far as his prime, for the most part, he gradually declined as he aged, which is the norm. Most guys don't suddenly fall apart; though it does happen occasionally.

[Caractacus]

I picked his fight with Corrie Sanders
because he should never have been caught cold like that.

[Ambling Alp II]

That fight opened a lot of eyes. His stock went way down after that. People realized that he wasn't what many thought he was. Still, the pre-Sanders Klitschko would have had a better chance to have beaten great fighters than the version that he later became.

[HomicideHenry]

That fight opened a lot of eyes. His stock went way down after that. People realized that he wasn't what many thought he was. Still, the pre-Sanders Klitschko would have had a better chance to have beaten great fighters than the version that he later became.

That's the first time I have ever heard a person say that the younger, greener, version of a fighter was superior to the older, wiser, version of a fighter.

Was Lennox Lewis, prior to losing to Oliver McCall, superior to the Lennox Lewis who was with Emmanuel Stewart?

I'm just curious how you can say such a thing when the Klitschko who got with Emmanuel Stewart rarely ever lost a single round, when the younger Klitschko couldn't cope with pressure and practically had a nervous breakdown after losing to Sanders and Brewster?

[oogiebe]

That fight opened a lot of eyes. His stock went way down after that. People realized that he wasn't what many thought he was. Still, the pre-Sanders Klitschko would have had a better chance to have beaten great fighters than the version that he later became.

That's the first time I have ever heard a person say that the younger, greener, version of a fighter was superior to the older, wiser, version of a fighter.

Was Lennox Lewis, prior to losing to Oliver McCall, superior to the Lennox Lewis who was with Emmanuel Stewart?

I'm just curious how you can say such a thing when the Klitschko who got with Emmanuel Stewart rarely ever lost a single round, when the younger Klitschko couldn't cope with pressure and practically had a nervous breakdown after losing to Sanders and Brewster?

Yeah I agree. That was a silly comment.

[Ambling Alp II]

It's not silly at all. He would not have beat a great fighter with the clinching style he adopted. He may have survived getting ko'd early, but he would not have actually won.

He would have had a puncher's chance against some great fighters if he fought aggressively like he did earlier in his career.

[Ambling Alp II]

That fight opened a lot of eyes. His stock went way down after that. People realized that he wasn't what many thought he was. Still, the pre-Sanders Klitschko would have had a better chance to have beaten great fighters than the version that he later became.

That's the first time I have ever heard a person say that the younger, greener, version of a fighter was superior to the older, wiser, version of a fighter.

Was Lennox Lewis, prior to losing to Oliver McCall, superior to the Lennox Lewis who was with Emmanuel Stewart?

I'm just curious how you can say such a thing when the Klitschko who got with Emmanuel Stewart rarely ever lost a single round, when the younger Klitschko couldn't cope with pressure and practically had a nervous breakdown after losing to Sanders and Brewster?

Of course a fighter is sometimes better when he is younger. There is a time frame when a fighter has experience and is at his best physically. It's called his prime. Thought that maybe you would have heard of it.

A fighter usually is improving almost fight by fight early in his career. Then he reaches his prime physically and mentally. Your experience doesn't keep getting better. It's not like a fighter who had fought for 20 years has a big experience over a guy who has fought for 15. At a certain point if he keeps fighting ,his experience is just old age. He declines.

So it depends on when exactly the stage of a fighter's career that you are talking about.
Lewis got knocked out by Rahman when Steward was his trainer.

As for Klitschko, well he got knocked by Lamon Brewster when Steward was his trainer. Almost got stopped by Samuel Peter.

[Onetimeonly]

Wlad got lucky against Williamson.

[Cojimar 1946]

Klitschko seemed to have a number of poor performances between the loss to Sanders and the Byrd fight it seems he took a while to regain form.

His prime seems to have been 2006 to 2014 with a pre prime of (2000-2003) and a stretch between where he was pretty poor.