Where would you put Canelo up to the date in the Super Middleweight all-time rating?

[DrDuke]

So, Canelo has recently become the first ever undisputed SMW champion. What's his place in the history of the division?

If to make the top, I'd go somehow like that:

1. Andre Ward. Not undisputed, but a unified champion in the most competetive era of the division. Winning Froch, Kessler and Abraham was a huge deal.
2. Roy Jones Jr. Toney is probably the biggest scalp here, but the overall resume of Jones isn't that thin like Ward's one.
3. Carl Froch. He was the best after Ward in the most competetive era. Kessler, Pascal, Taylor, Groves, Bute were big wins.
4. James Toney. - the win over Barkley was a masterpiece. Had some decent defences afterwards, although not great ones.
5. Joe Calzaghe. Undefeated, but lacked quality in the resume. Winning Kessler was very good, but the likes of Eubank, Jones and Hopkins were past prime, plus the least two were defeated at the LHW.

Up to the date I see all this guys better than Canelo for sure. I put Canelo right after them, on the 6th place. I think, he has done more than the likes of Kessler, Benn, Eubank Sr, Collins, who gotta close the top 10. Kessler defeated Froch, but actually that was a quite dodgy decision, while Froch avenged the loss later on. Benn is close with a win over McClellan, a controversial draw vs Eubank and crushing Barkley, albeit at the MW. Collins won both Benn and Eubank, but when those were shabby enough. I feel, like Canelo did more with winning Smith, Saunders and Plant. The lower part of the top 10 is dodgy, but I think, Canelo should be on its upper position and he can go higher with him and his opponents improving in the future.

What's your opinion?

[oogiebe]

He's in the discussion, but not quite best ever. Jones or Calzaghe number one as of now. I'd say RJJ.

[DrDuke]

He's in the discussion, but not quite best ever. Jones or Calzaghe number one as of now. I'd say RJJ.

I can understand Jones at #1, but I'd never place Calzaghe over Ward.

[oogiebe]

He's in the discussion, but not quite best ever. Jones or Calzaghe number one as of now. I'd say RJJ.

I can understand Jones at #1, but I'd never place Calzaghe over Ward.

I can make an argument both ways with Ward. I'm not of strong opinion one way or another, but I'd lean Cal. Just going by what they did at 168

[H8Usernames]

Load of rubbish.

#1 Joe Calzaghe. Based on longevity as champion.
#2. Andre Ward
#3. Canelo Alvarez
#4. James Toney
#5. Chris Eubank
#6. RJjr
#7. Steve Collins
#8. Nigel Benn
#9. Robin Reid
#10. Jorge Castro

[DrDuke]

#1 Joe Calzaghe. Based on longevity as champion.

Longevity as a minor-belt-holder counts? The WBO strap has become major by the end of Calzaghe's reign, while overall that reign was filled with nonames.

#9. Robin Reid
#10. Jorge Castro

These guys won't even make a top 20.

[oogiebe]

Load of rubbish.

#1 Joe Calzaghe. Based on longevity as champion.
#2. Andre Ward
#3. Canelo Alvarez
#4. James Toney
#5. Chris Eubank
#6. RJjr
#7. Steve Collins
#8. Nigel Benn
#9. Robin Reid
#10. Jorge Castro

You're right mate; your list is a load of rubbish.

[H8Usernames]

#1 Joe Calzaghe. Based on longevity as champion.

Longevity as a minor-belt-holder counts? The WBO strap has become major by the end of Calzaghe's reign, while overall that reign was filled with nonames.

#9. Robin Reid
#10. Jorge Castro

These guys won't even make a top 20.

Hmmm. Calzaghe schools pathetic Kessler and it doesn't count. Carl Froch loses to Kessler and it makes him a grear fighter?

Calzaghe holds a win over Sven Ottke really by making Sven duck him. At that time the ibf wba and wbc belts simply didn't matter, Calzaghe was obviously lightyears above and beyond anyone else at that weight. Ibf wba and wbc belts were papertitles at that weight at that time.

[DrDuke]

#1 Joe Calzaghe. Based on longevity as champion.

Longevity as a minor-belt-holder counts? The WBO strap has become major by the end of Calzaghe's reign, while overall that reign was filled with nonames.

#9. Robin Reid
#10. Jorge Castro

These guys won't even make a top 20.

Hmmm. Calzaghe schools pathetic Kessler and it doesn't count. Carl Froch loses to Kessler and it makes him a grear fighter?

Calzaghe holds a win over Sven Ottke really by making Sven duck him. At that time the ibf wba and wbc belts simply didn't matter, Calzaghe was obviously lightyears above and beyond anyone else at that weight. Ibf wba and wbc belts were papertitles at that weight at that time.

Froch lost to Kessler closely and avenged that loss confidently. Froch's wins over Pascal, Taylor, Groves and Bute were more valuable than Calzaghe's second tier wins.

And telling that 'Calzaghe holds a win over Sven Ottke really by making Sven duck him' is a great joke. Not to forget, that Ottke was awful, as he was fighting even lesser nonames than a row of Calzaghe's opponents, while he was awarded wins over some of them. Ottke is a one of the worst 'champions' ever and easily the worst unified one.

[Monzon83]

I'd have him above Froch and Calslappy. Below Ward and RJJ.

[jezzamundo]

I'd have Canelo ahead of any super middleweight in a P4P sense (except perhaps RJJ), but purely at the weight I'd have them rated as such:

1. Andre Ward
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. RJJ (almost certainly the best, but didn't spend enough time there for the top spot)
4. Froch
5. Kessler
6. Canelo

Canelo is going enough that he could enter the top 3 discussion in time, but he has only been at the weight for a year - let's give him some time.

[KiwiRider]

Breadman rated him all time in his column this week