The Cincinatti Cobra...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 26 Jul 2006, 18:51

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
granberry wrote:Yes Brockton.

Joe Louis was terrific when he fought Marciano.

Louis never looked better.

And the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.
spoken like a true idiot. im guessing from the sarcasm in this post that u realized u were over ur head in this debate and that ur wisely getting out before u get embarrased.

dont worry pundit was over his head too in the godfrey-tunney debate. i gave pundit a huge list of major sources descring godfrey and pundit shruffed off the sources like they didnt mean anything.

Because they didn't mean anything.

The sources stated that Tunney didn't want to fight Godfrey in 1925. So what - there was not the slightest reason for the top contender Tunney to waste his time with the at best marginal contender Godfrey.

Deriving from there though that Tunney was "afraid" of Godfrey is childish, and for that your sources also don't provide the slightest hint of evidence.

A really simple point, but apparently plain in-communicatable to you. You try to "derive" from the true statement "apples are not blue" the untrue statement "apple are purple", and then you get pissed when people don't readily accept the purpleness of apples.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 26 Jul 2006, 19:48

BrocktonBluster has established that Joe Louis was just terrific when he fought Marciano.

Next BrocktonBlubber will establish the fact that Ali was just terrific when he fought Holmes.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 26 Jul 2006, 19:55

granberry wrote:BrocktonBluster has established that Joe Louis was just terrific when he fought Marciano.

Next BrocktonBlubber will establish the fact that Ali was just terrific when he fought Holmes.

Don't forget: in 1925 George Godfrey was the scariest heavyweight far and wide - really head and shoulders above everyone else - and Gene Tunney pursued a fight with Jack Dempsey ONLY to duck Godfrey (NOT because Tunney was interested in Depmsey's world heavyweight title).

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 26 Jul 2006, 20:00

Tunney was so afraid of Godfrey that he got a judge to approve bench warrant ordering that Godfrey had to stay at least 40 feet away from him at all times.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 26 Jul 2006, 20:58

BrocktonBluster has established that Joe Louis was just terrific when he fought Marciano.

granberry has established himself a complete idiot and embarrasement to boxrec.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 27 Jul 2006, 00:48

Granberry knows about 100x more about boxing history than you, Brockton.

Granberry is known for his boxing knowledge. but also his sometimes very poor attitude, in those respects he reminds me alot of Barry.

Where as you are known for what? Shitting out 15 or 20 posts a day, claiming whatever fighter you fancy at the moment is some sort of demi-god, and trying to make any acheivement of theirs look f'ucking fantastic?

Granberry has generally shown bias towards Marciano... And his saying that Joe Louis was basically a dead man walking when he fought Marciano was not some sort of attempt to diminish Marciano... But trying to state a fact that just about anyone can see.

Louis was DONE before he fought Marciano... He shouldn't have been fighting, period. And he would not have been fighting if not for getting f'ucked in the ass by the IRS.

Only a nuthugging fanboy would try to claim otherwise.

Have a nice day.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 02:46

obviosely louis was far past his prime when he fought marciano. so was holmes when he fought evander holyfield. that doesnt mean both were still top dangerous contenders

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 02:50

And his saying that Joe Louis was basically a dead man walking when he fought Marciano was not some sort of attempt to diminish Marciano... But trying to state a fact that just about anyone can see.

why dont u open ur eyes and look at the facts

LOUIS WAS THE # 1 CONTENDER WHEN HE FOUGHT MARCIANO

- LOUIS HAD WON 8 IN A ROW IN DOMINATING PREFORMANCES, 5 OF WHICH WERE AGAINST RANKED CONTENDERS.

- BUSTED UP A PRIME CHARLES FACE BADLY IN THERE 1950 TITLE FIGHT

now if he were a dead man walking, louis never would have been able to accomplish those feats. hell he even knocked out nino valdes in an exhibition fight. the same nino valdes who would be a top contender in marcianos era and one of the most danerous contenders of that era.

* marciano should get credit for beating a far past his prime but still dangerous and formidable joe louis

the louis victory IMO means even more than a victory over bob baker and nino valdes

tantum please go back to the general scene, no one likes u here. ur been embarrased in debates in the past. dont embarras urself again.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 02:51

Louis was DONE before he fought Marciano... He shouldn't have been fighting, period. And he would not have been fighting if not for getting f'ucked in the ass by the IRS.

louis was NOT DONE. he was the # 1 contender looking for a rematch at ezzard charles crown. louis latest spurge in the heavyweight scene made him hungry again to regain the title. he knew he did better in rematches and he knew he wouldnt as rusty as he was in the first charles fight come the 2nd time. he wanted that rematch badly!

ill take the 1951 version of joe louis to beat almost all the heavyweights today and be champion.

Louis was 6'1.

i believe louis is 6'2

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 27 Jul 2006, 03:03

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Blah blah blah

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 03:13

who the fuk are u granberry to be talking to me like that? get the fuk out of boxrec newbie. only the regulars here at boxrec can talk to me like that.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 27 Jul 2006, 03:19

who the fuk are u granberry to be talking to me like that?

He's been here alot longer than your ass, infact you're the newbie in this thread... Among other things.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 27 Jul 2006, 03:33

Brockton has been drinking a lot tonight.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 27 Jul 2006, 14:05

Tantum wrote:Louis was DONE before he fought Marciano... He shouldn't have been fighting, period. And he would not have been fighting if not for getting f'ucked in the ass by the IRS.

As far as the Louis vs IRS debate goes, yes they did treat him poorly by taxing him on fight purses he had donated to war charitys. But when it came to money Louis was his own worst enemy. He was notorious for his spending habilts, gambling and just giving his money away.

I have also read that he was warned by people close to him to pay his taxes etc but Louis just didn't listen.

I say all this with nothing but the greatest of respect for Joe Louis but I felt my above stament needed to be said.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Jul 2006, 14:52

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
And his saying that Joe Louis was basically a dead man walking when he fought Marciano was not some sort of attempt to diminish Marciano... But trying to state a fact that just about anyone can see.

why dont u open ur eyes and look at the facts

LOUIS WAS THE # 1 CONTENDER WHEN HE FOUGHT MARCIANO

Marciano wasn't even champ, so how can Louis have been the #1 contender.

Come on, we all know that the 1950s Louis was a pale shadow of the Louis of 1937-41. The 1947 Louis had very much slowed down already.

JC · Post by JC » 27 Jul 2006, 15:51

Couldn't he have been No 1 contender for Ezzard Charles' title and fought Rocky in a non-title bout.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:20

J-C wrote:Couldn't he have been No 1 contender for Ezzard Charles' title and fought Rocky in a non-title bout.

exactley pundit is mistaken. joe louis fought marciano in a NON TITLE BOUT.

louis was the # 1 contender in 1951 rated by RING MAGAZINE when marciano beat him.

louis had won 8 victories in a row leading up to the marciano fight. he beat # 7 ranked cesar brion 2x, # 9 ranked omelio agramonte, and scored a one sided knockout over # 2 ranked BBC HW champion lee savold. marciano was the underdog going into the louis fight.

pundit, i want you to read this beutfiul passage written by a poster on another forum about joe louis in 1951

"The reason that his reflexes look "way gone" is that they were so far from what he had in his prime. It's difficult to look at Louis from the Marciano fight and not think to yourself, "this guy doesn't have a glimmer of his former skills!". One cannot help but compare him to the fighter he once was, and this makes it difficult to judge him as the fighter he HAD BECOME.

Louis still had the same level reflexes as many contenders throughout history have. He had better reflexes than most punchers through history. He also retained all of his boxing skill, built up over his entire, magnificent career. One must look at Louis as he actually was, not what he should have been. Compared to most contenders in most periods, his reflexes were neither substandard nor "shot"."

you have to remember a prime joe louis was probably the greatest HW of all time. he was leagues above most heavyweights. so even a far past his prime joe louis is still a very good fighter.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:24

J-C wrote:Couldn't he have been No 1 contender for Ezzard Charles' title and fought Rocky in a non-title bout.

He could have.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:28

joe louis was not on his way out till marciano beat him. he WANTED THAT TITLE BACK. he was the # 1 contender, he had racked up 8 victories in a row and his confidence was now back. when he saw walcott KO charles, it gave him even more hunger. cause louis had already beaten him twice.

"i still wanted the heavyweight crown again: I convinced myself i could still get it."- joe louis talking about himself in 1951.

"charles gave joe walcott another go at the title, and dammed if walcott didnt knock him out in the 7th round. well now walcott defintley didnt want to meet me again. i didnt blame him. he wanted to hold onto that title as long as he could." - joe louis talking about 1951

"well joe walcott was still not gonna come to me thats for sure, and then along came a new white hope rocky marciano. to tell u the truth i wasnt anxious to fight him. i kept looking at the throne, thats wut i wanted." louis talking about himself in 1951

of course louis didnt realize he had aged dramatically from the time he last fought walcott 47-48 to 1951 while walcott hadnt aged at all.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:30

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:joe louis was not on his way out till marciano beat him. he WANTED THAT TITLE BACK. he was the # 1 contender, he had racked up 8 victories in a row and his confidence was now back. when he saw walcott KO charles, it gave him even more hunger. cause louis had already beaten him twice.

Louis returned because of his tax debts and for no other reason. He was overweight, unmotivated, and only a shadow of the Louis of around 1940. In fact, the 1947 Louis had already been only half as sharp as prime Louis.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:30

pundit wrote:
J-C wrote:Couldn't he have been No 1 contender for Ezzard Charles' title and fought Rocky in a non-title bout.
He could have.

he was

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:32

pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:joe louis was not on his way out till marciano beat him. he WANTED THAT TITLE BACK. he was the # 1 contender, he had racked up 8 victories in a row and his confidence was now back. when he saw walcott KO charles, it gave him even more hunger. cause louis had already beaten him twice.
Louis returned because of his tax debts and for no other reason. He was overweight, unmotivated, and only a shadow of the Louis of around 1940. In fact, the 1947 Louis had already been only half as sharp as prime Louis.

he did return for tax debts. HOWEVER AFTER RACKING UP 8 VICTORIES IN A ROW, he suddenly found himself the # 1 contender. he wasnt fighting for money anymore, he was fighting for the title. he had already beaten walcott twice and he thought he could beat walcott again and regain the title.

"i still wanted the heavyweight crown again: I convinced myself i could still get it."- joe louis talking about himself in 1951.

JOE LOUIS HIMSELF SAID HE WANTED TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP BACK. are u calling louis a liar?

WHERES UR SOURCES BUDDY?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:42

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:joe louis was not on his way out till marciano beat him. he WANTED THAT TITLE BACK. he was the # 1 contender, he had racked up 8 victories in a row and his confidence was now back. when he saw walcott KO charles, it gave him even more hunger. cause louis had already beaten him twice.
Louis returned because of his tax debts and for no other reason. He was overweight, unmotivated, and only a shadow of the Louis of around 1940. In fact, the 1947 Louis had already been only half as sharp as prime Louis.
he did return for tax debts. HOWEVER AFTER RACKING UP 8 VICTORIES IN A ROW, he suddenly found himself the # 1 contender. he wasnt fighting for money anymore, he was fighting for the title. he had already beaten walcott twice and he thought he could beat walcott again and regain the title.

"i still wanted the heavyweight crown again: I convinced myself i could still get it."- joe louis talking about himself in 1951.

JOE LOUIS HIMSELF SAID HE WANTED TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP BACK. are u calling louis a liar?

WHERES UR SOURCES BUDDY?

No living fighter would say that he doesn't want to win a championship. The question is how much conviction is behind this. Louis arguably scored pretty low on this one in the early 1950s.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:50

pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
pundit wrote: Louis returned because of his tax debts and for no other reason. He was overweight, unmotivated, and only a shadow of the Louis of around 1940. In fact, the 1947 Louis had already been only half as sharp as prime Louis.
he did return for tax debts. HOWEVER AFTER RACKING UP 8 VICTORIES IN A ROW, he suddenly found himself the # 1 contender. he wasnt fighting for money anymore, he was fighting for the title. he had already beaten walcott twice and he thought he could beat walcott again and regain the title.

"i still wanted the heavyweight crown again: I convinced myself i could still get it."- joe louis talking about himself in 1951.

JOE LOUIS HIMSELF SAID HE WANTED TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP BACK. are u calling louis a liar?

WHERES UR SOURCES BUDDY?
No living fighter would say that he doesn't want to win a championship. The question is how much conviction is behind this. Louis arguably scored pretty low on this one in the early 1950s.

once again no sources to back that claim up.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Jul 2006, 17:51

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: he did return for tax debts. HOWEVER AFTER RACKING UP 8 VICTORIES IN A ROW, he suddenly found himself the # 1 contender. he wasnt fighting for money anymore, he was fighting for the title. he had already beaten walcott twice and he thought he could beat walcott again and regain the title.

"i still wanted the heavyweight crown again: I convinced myself i could still get it."- joe louis talking about himself in 1951.

JOE LOUIS HIMSELF SAID HE WANTED TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP BACK. are u calling louis a liar?

WHERES UR SOURCES BUDDY?
No living fighter would say that he doesn't want to win a championship. The question is how much conviction is behind this. Louis arguably scored pretty low on this one in the early 1950s.

once again no sources to back that claim up.

So how do you "back up" the "conviction" behind somebody's claim.

This is getting childish, once again. Pity.