Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

How The Tables Turn

They say George Chuvalo has the dementia now. I remember seeing him at a World Boxing Hall Of Fame banquet in 2007.He was all right then.He was sitting at an autograph table next to Bobby Chacon who by that time made Peck's Bad Boy look like Little Lord Fauntleroy.You never knew what was next with Bobby.He had his caretaker with him ,Rosie,but half the time Bobby kept her on pins and needles.

The autograph session was going along smoothly when all of a sudden Bobby lunged at Chuvalo. Bobby claimed that George had swiped his pen.Well, there were plenty around who kept Bobby away before he got hurt from the former heavyweight challenger.Rosie took him outside,and then Bobby returned to the table like nothing had happened.Chuvalo kind of laughed it off,.He always seemed to be in a good mood. Now he's got what Bobby had.

A lot of ex fighters look in the mirror had study themselves.They seem to be all right now but they're looking for any signs of something that's there that wasn't there before.It can grab you and you don't know it.

I was at a fight in Las Vegas around ten years ago. I thought I saw Roger Mayweather sitting at ringside. He was with a young fella'.People were gathering around trying to start a conversation.All of a sudden he leaped out of his seat and went after some guy who wanted an autograph. The young fella' with him pulled him off the autograph hound.Later, I saw the two walking to the Baskin Robbins concession that was inside the hotel The young fella' was holding the other guy's arm.
"I want a ice cream.,'said the other guy beginning to cry.
"OK uncle Roger we'll get you an ice cream.Just be nice,"said the young fella.

I thought to myself that it was like yesterday when Roger Mayweather was training his nephew Floyd Mayweather Jr.Bobby Chacon is gone.Roger Mayweather passed away in 2020.I don't even want to think about George Chuvalo.

Canelo is going to fight tonight. No.I'm not going to Tijuana and watch it for free.Then I think about the guys who paid 28,000 dollars to sit ringside.Boxing is all out of whack.


Bobby Chacon

George Chuvalo at the autograph table

[dagosd2000]

The Greatest Fighter In The World I Guess

The greatest fighter in the world fought last night in Las Vegas.Canelo Alvarez stopped Caleb Plant in 11 rounds to unify what was left of all the middleweight titles.i watched the replay on YouTube this morning. It was a lousy fight.Plant was just trying to survive poking out a flimsy jab sometimes following with a wide weak right.For the most part his stance was wide open and flat footed.He avoided getting into any exchanges.Canelo pressed the action but without any real mean intensions.He knew he had Plant's number after the first round.I gave every round to Canelo by the time the fight was waved off by the referee.

But the ringside announcers were calling the action like it was Gatti and Ward all over again. I guess if you don't have a mind of your own you bought the wind and smoke.

I told you that my homepage on my computer is Yahoo. Not a very common homepage but my email is on there so I can't help but see what Yahoo has to say about the world.The guy who comments on the boxing end is a fella' named Kevin Iole.His title is "Combat Consultant."He wrote up the fight as a credit to Canelo being the greatest fighter in the world today.He probably is. I thought that Canelo and Golovkin were going to get together for a third time to settle the score as to which man is the better fighter. So far they've been apart from each other. Aside from those two the middleweight division is lacking.While Joe Louis was the greatest of his generation ,sharing the limelight with Ray Robinson,Joe was content to fight a "Bum Of The Month."Canelo fights a bum every six months.

I want to get back to Iole and his column. I guess there were some UFC fights also last night. Iole and Yahoo put out that info with more type than the Canelo fight.If you ever go to Yahoo Sports and look at the bar above the news that's where the sport categories are listed. There's no word of boxing.There's MMA but if you want to find out what the news is in the boxing world you have to slide the mouse over to a miscellaneous category then click and slide down to "boxing."It's right above the "Tokyo Games."

So the greatest fighter in the world fought last night, but was he a boxer or a mixed martial artist?I'll still go along with Canelo even though I didn't (and won't) watch any of the cage fighting replays. BTW:I think I saw the dude who bought the ringside seat for 28 grand.I hope he got his money's worth.


Joe Louis

[dagosd2000]

Smelling Like A Rose

I was trying to find out what Caleb Plant had said to Canelo Alvarez that pissed him off.I went on the internet and I never got a clear answer. Canelo said Plant said something about his mother.Plant denied it saying that his mother was murdered two years ago and if he said something to Canelo about his mother the Mexican would have something to put back on him.Maybe Plant called Canelo a "mother f---er" and Canelo not knowing English thought Plant had dissed his mother.Now if Plant had called Canelo a "cabron" that would be the Mexican way of saying "mother f---er." Anyway if Plant called Canelo a name he looked like he was scared to death of Canelo once the fight started.

I've always thought that the biggest obstacle to overcome with a fighter is when he knows his opponent is the stronger man. In the first round Canelo established that. It usually happens in the first clinches.If the other guy is stronger he's usually going to first exert that strength in the clinches.Canelo got Plant in a few headlocks and wouldn't le go. He wanted Plant to feel his power. Plant was a beat man after that.

Muhammad Ali had to deal with stronger fighters throughout his career. When he was floating ,like butterfly he could offset that.But when he came back after the layoff it was a chore for him to deal with the likes of Foreman,Frazier,and Norton.Ali couldn't fend off Frazier in the first fight.He knew that his legs couldn't get him out of trouble. Many thought Ali would retire after that fight. In the rematch it was almost a carbon copy of the first. But some lousy scoring "gave" it to Ali. Boxing was saved from being eclipsed. If Ali had lost two in a row to Joe and called it quits think of how the sport would have lost its poster child and with it its charisma. Ali also got more gifts when he fought Ken Norton.After getting his jaw broken in the first fight Ali had a rabbit's foot and a four leaf clover in his jockstrap in fights two and three. Referees let him get away with holding behind the neck and stalling.Can you think of Ken Norton replacing Ali? Yawn.

It would have been a no brainer that the pre banished Ali would have kept those big boys at bay and danced his way to victory.Their strength would have actually played into his hands. But after they let him fight again Ali had to struggle with those behemoths like no other fighter. Only Muhammad Ali could have come out smelling like a rose.


Muhammad Ali

[dagosd2000]

No Room For Error

When Mike Tysom was moving up in the ranks and beat Larry Holmes I thought that may have been his supreme effort.Until Larry lost two in a row to Michael Spinks no one had put Holmes on queer street like Tyson. I couldn't believe how Tyson was bouncing him off the canvas like a ping pong ball.Larry was trying to gather himself but Tyson just overpowered him. Finally he put Larry flat on his back for good. Now this was two years after Holmes had lost to Spinks.You can say that Larry was 39 years old at the time, but he was the same weight as he was for Spinks.But then you can say there was a two year layoff in between. There you go again with that "layoff" stuff. A fighter's got to be careful with a layoff.

There's no room for error with fighters.If they are going to fight the best they have to be in the best shape of their lives.A layoff for a fighter is the best way for him to give up everything especially if he's in his 30's.Ray Leonard was 29 years old when,after 4 years away from the ring,he narrowly beat Marvin Hagler. it was controversial. Marvin gave up the first two rounds fighting orthodox thinking it would bewilder Ray.It didn't.But then Ray retired twice after that later, and when he came back he looked bad against Terry Norris,and then ridiculous against Hector Camacho.

I saw Denny Moyer at the end and he was a shot fighter to say the least. But he was in the gym everyday .He said if he missed two weeks his timing would be off.But he was drinking heavily and taking shots and I think with all the sparring(and it wasn't any rough stuff)it just expediated the finish.

Archie Moore always said "Old fighters get lazy."That's because their bodies can't take the rigor of training like when they were in their primes.

I remember watching the second Ali/Frazier fight in Madison Square Garden.Joe was beating him up like in the first fight but couldn't score a knockdown. You could see the anxiety in Ali's corner as it got close to the end. In the final round Ali wanted to win over the crowd and especially the judges and did his "Ali Shuffle."It looked like he was going to fall down. But he got the gift from the judges and he kept on fighting.

When I saw him train the last two weeks in San Diego for the first Norton fight he loafed and laughed his way through his workouts.He enjoyed entertaining the crowd with his verbal quips more then his boxing skills by that time had waned.Then when he sparred he'd let his sparring partners work him over. There were no shuffles.There was no floating.You could call it laziness but then he had little left.


Larry Holmes

[dagosd2000]

The Touch

I was once asked by the father of a fighter,who was also his manager and trainer,that if I could loan him 5 thousand dollars he'd get a guarantee from a promoter that would put his son in a match with a fighter,and if he won,would put him in the top 50..I pretended like I didn't hear the question and changed course.That's how desperate fighting i when you have to pay the promoter to get a fight instead of the other way around.The problem with this guy,the dad,was that he wanted to call the shots with everything. No way that's going to work.

I don't know if his son ever got the fight they wanted.I think it was all a ruse anyway.The promoter they were talking about had bilked the husband of my granddaughter's flamenco teacher out of their life's savings and when husband asked to get his money back this promoter said he was connected with the underworld and bad things would happen if he asked again.

I see that this kid hasn't fought in over two years. He started fighting in Tijuana and had some fights in some of the hotel banquet rooms in San Diego and finally,after his old man began pressing too hard,was back in TJ fighting in the honky tonk bars.

It always gets me that when a fighter hangs them up he'll open up a gym in the community to help the neighborhood kids.Help them to get punched in the head?Or punch the other guy inn the noggin'?Why doesn't the ex pug open up a center for kids that helps them with their homework or teach them a trade. No.It's a start off place for a kid to get involved in a sport that has the minuses outweighing the plusses by a landslide.

But if you look at gyms today they're not that serious about developing the next wave of champions anyway. And maybe that's good. It's a lot of kids ,and women, and guys that sit a desk all day that want some exercise.The trainers aren't really qualified to teach the sport. There's no local cards anymore so where is anyone in a gym going to fight?

I guess you have to have 5 grand to throw away and give to a promoter so, if you win, you'll be in the top 50.



Crea GYm in Tijuana

[dagosd2000]

White Mice

Remember The Mickey Mouse Club? Remember the Mouseketeers?Sure you do if you when you pee the flow is like a leaky faucet or when you take off your bra your tits fall out like warm oatmeal.Well,I was watching the ol' gang the other day on YouTube and it brought back a lot of memories.For one thing it sure was a white world. Not one of those Mouseketeers would make you think of a Harlem Renaissance festival. Uncle Walt wasn't exactly prone to showcasing people of color unless it was a happy slave picking cotton and singing Zippity Doo Dah on the plantation or a some Mexican kid wearing an oversized sombrero kissing his ass It was Uncle Walt who hired Werner Von Braun ,the Nazi scientist who worked to death 20 thousand slave laborers in those mines in the Dora concentration camp that made rockets that killed American GI's. Yeah, it was Herr Werner who ,alongside his pal Donald Duck, was on Uncle Walt's Disneyland show that showed how we were gonna' get to the moon before the Commies did.Of course it wasn't only Uncle Walt who ignored those murders.Our State Department put Herr Werner in charge of NASA"s space program instead of him getting hanged at Nuremberg.Oh those Mouseketeers were SO white with the exception of that token dago Annette Funicello.So where does boxing fit into all this?

Well,when the Mouseketeers were dancing in the homes of the kids in Southside of Chicago another friend against outsiders ,Rocky Marciano,was the heavyweight champ. At least he was kinda' white. For over ten years Joe Louis was taking apart white heavyweights and if you weren't awed by his physical prowess you wanted one of those white Bums Of The Month land a lucky punch.But it was left to another black fighter to finally show the exit to Joe.Ezzard Charles was the new champ of the most coveted title in sports, and for a few years he and Joe Walcott swapped belts. .Then along came Rocky.Not lilly white but white enough.

Then Rocky called it quits and the vacant title was up for grabs. But all fingers on the grab were sepia(Cus D'Amato pulled some strings with his pals at the International Boxing Club to get his guy Floyd a title shot with Archie Moore.The fight stunk to high heaven)So now it was back to another black heavyweight champion. By now the fans were switching to football. Patterson didn't help his cause by ducking Folley,Machen ,and Listion(D'Amato knew his charge couldn't beat those guys).But finally the public was about to give up on the division and Cus knew his kid had run his course.The match was made with Sonny.The fight was over before you could say to the usher"Where is my seat?".There was a rematch and this time it was over before you could say "Put your disguise in a small brown paper bag."

Sonny ,another fighter of slave descendants, was now the champ.Sonny had a sense of humor worse than a Prussian stand up comic, and now the fans added NBA basketball to their viewing agenda in place of the weekly boxing show.. It wasn't until Cassius Clay came along that boxing was resurrected.The Vietnam War,marijuana,LSD,hippies,The Beatles and The Stones,the counter culture,standing up to authority,the Civil Rights Movement-all the perfect storm for Cassius to jump into

.But it was a black man who saved boxing.I bet by that time Uncle Walt was thinking of adding a little more color to the Mouseketeers.

[dagosd2000]

The Stretch

I bumped into Jeff the day bartender at Champs inside the Rite Aid drugstore in the neighborhood square. We were standing the checkout line.
"I read your post yesterday,"he said.
"What did you think?"
"That was quite a stretch going from the Mouseketeers to Joe Louis and Cassius Clay,"he laughed.
"Yeah,it was.I really wanted to talk about the Mouseketeers but then I thought I'd try to connect it to something about boxing."
"You do that a lot."
"I know but what the hell."
"I see they have Crawford fighting Porter later this month."
"That should be a good fight."
"Who do you think will win?"
"I don't know anymore.These fighters take so much time off between fights you can't tell if they're sharp anymore,"I answered.
"Maybe you can make a connection between the fight and the Mouseketeers."
"I'm finding just about anything is more interesting than boxing."
"Have you been following that thread on the size of past and current heavyweights?"
"They're really dragging that one out."
" Those guys already have their minds made up nd won't change."
"Yeah.They try so hard to convince the other guy that they're wrong that they do do nothing but split hairs.You can make a case about anything."
"What do you think about that?"
"I put in my two cents awhile back about Joe Louis fighting big guys that I thought were as good as the big guys today.The difference is all the heavyweights today are big."
"I read today that they're talking about strong man competitions,"said Jeff.
" I wish this line would move faster before my ice cream melts."


Primo Carnera

[dagosd2000]

A Fight That Should Be On TV

Jaime Munguia is going to fight tonight.He's undefeated with 37 wins with 30 of those wins by KO.You get your money's worth watching this guy. Even though he hasn't lost I've seen him tested. He couldn't put on a clinic of defensive skills. He doesn't move his head. He's a flatfooted fighter. His biggest flaw is he stands straight up in front of his opponent. Even when he gets close he's still straight up and down.But he packs a heavy punch in both hands.He likes to go downstairs.Again,this guy hasn't lost.

He's a Tijuanero. The Roma pharmacies across the border use his name in their advertising. I saw him and Luis Nery fight at the Audtorium 5 years ago.I took my grandson Adam to a fight down there. i thought that would be something different.Both Nery(another local) and Munguia scored KO's. But like all the hot fighters from South Of The Border they eventually hook up with the promoters on the U.S. side and it's "adios" to the Mexican fight venues.

MUnguia is fighting a Chicano named Gabriel Rosado.The fight will be in Anaheim.The crowd will be all Mexican. I've never seen Rosado fight.He won't have the crowd behind him because he's a Chicano but he's got a chance. He hasn't fought anyone with a name but neither has Munguia. The problem with the middleweight division is with the exception of Canelo and Golovkin there isn't much out there-at least when you're looking at a "Big Fight."

Like I said I haven't seen Roisado fight.He's lost 4 but I'll go out on a limb and pick him.You never know when two Mexicans get into the ring.It's about "macho" bragging rights.I know this though.There'll be plenty of action and I know the fight fans will really enjoy this one.

But the big sponsors feel they'll get more bang for their buck advertising the college football game.I guess I'll catch it on YouTube tomorrow.

[scartissue]

Rog, just watched the highlights on youtube and I gotta tell you, Munguia is definitely maturing as a fighter. I know what you mean when you described his style. Gangly, flat-footed with his chin in the air. Well he seems to be settling out with a tight defense and firing combos with a much wider stance. He got his chin tested a good couple of times as well. I would say he's on his way to being a real contender now. Check it out if you get a chance. Remarkable how much he is evolving.

[dagosd2000]

Rog, just watched the highlights on youtube and I gotta tell you, Munguia is definitely maturing as a fighter. I know what you mean when you described his style. Gangly, flat-footed with his chin in the air. Well he seems to be settling out with a tight defense and firing combos with a much wider stance. He got his chin tested a good couple of times as well. I would say he's on his way to being a real contender now. Check it out if you get a chance. Remarkable how much he is evolving.

Dan,just finished watching the fight.You are right on about Munguia improving.He's bending his knees to get better movement.He's moving his head and shoulders more. The combinations are snappier.This Rosado was no cream puff. But I got it wrong about him being Mexican.I saw the Puerto Rican flag in his corner.Maybe one or two more fights like this one and I'd like to see Munguia and Canelo get together. The Staples Center in LA would be a sell out.

Am going down to my wife's hometown in Mexico for a couple of weeks.Leaving tomorrow.Take care pal.

[scartissue]

Rog, just watched the highlights on youtube and I gotta tell you, Munguia is definitely maturing as a fighter. I know what you mean when you described his style. Gangly, flat-footed with his chin in the air. Well he seems to be settling out with a tight defense and firing combos with a much wider stance. He got his chin tested a good couple of times as well. I would say he's on his way to being a real contender now. Check it out if you get a chance. Remarkable how much he is evolving.

Dan,just finished watching the fight.You are right on about Munguia improving.He's bending his knees to get better movement.He's moving his head and shoulders more. The combinations are snappier.This Rosado was no cream puff. But I got it wrong about him being Mexican.I saw the Puerto Rican flag in his corner.Maybe one or two more fights like this one and I'd like to see Munguia and Canelo get together. The Staples Center in LA would be a sell out.

Am going down to my wife's hometown in Mexico for a couple of weeks.Leaving tomorrow.Take care pal.

Have a great time, Man. say hi to Maria for me.

[dagosd2000]

Rog, just watched the highlights on youtube and I gotta tell you, Munguia is definitely maturing as a fighter. I know what you mean when you described his style. Gangly, flat-footed with his chin in the air. Well he seems to be settling out with a tight defense and firing combos with a much wider stance. He got his chin tested a good couple of times as well. I would say he's on his way to being a real contender now. Check it out if you get a chance. Remarkable how much he is evolving.

Dan,just finished watching the fight.You are right on about Munguia improving.He's bending his knees to get better movement.He's moving his head and shoulders more. The combinations are snappier.This Rosado was no cream puff. But I got it wrong about him being Mexican.I saw the Puerto Rican flag in his corner.Maybe one or two more fights like this one and I'd like to see Munguia and Canelo get together. The Staples Center in LA would be a sell out.

Am going down to my wife's hometown in Mexico for a couple of weeks.Leaving tomorrow.Take care pal.

Have a great time, Man. say hi to Maria for me.

Thanks.



Downtown Jiquilpan,Michoacan

The looks of this place hasn't changed in the 47 years since I've been going down there.BTW."Gato" Gonzalez fought here 3 times when he was starting out in the early 60's.He always talks to me about it.

[dagosd2000]

Roger:

What can you tell us about 1970s light-heavyweight Jesse Burnett? I know he was big in southern California. I remember reading about him a lot in the boxing magazines. Apparently the guy never had a build-up; his overall record wasn't impressive from a win-loss-draw perspective. But he may have been a legitimate world-class contender. He was definitely in the magazines' top-ten rankings for years.

I know Burnett lost a razor close decision to Victor Galindez in 1976, in a non-title fight in Denmark. That tells us something about Jesse's abilities. He also beat Yaqui Lopez twice, and dropped two nods to Lopez by split-decision. In 1979, Jesse appeared to have clobbered John Conteh in a UK fight, only to have to settle for a draw. Other contenders that Burnett KO'd were Tony Mundine and Lonnie Bennett.

My impression has always been that Burnett was an undersung fighter...a guy capable of beating world-class foes, and someone who might have won a piece of the world title on the right night if only given the chance.

Joe
You pretty much summed it up with Burnett.I saw him flatten Ray White at The Coliseum in San Die3go. A slick boxer..The Conteh decision was a robbery for sure. The guy didnt have rthe right people around him to protect him and keep him focused.. He was fun to watch. Take care.Roger

[dagosd2000]

Roger:

Did you ever meet James Marshall, the little known but formidable Los Angeles middleweight from the 1970s? In 1975, Marshall took a trip Australia and scored a huge, shocking upset over world rated Tony Mundine. Marshall won the fight by first round KO. A month later, Marshall won a 4th round knockout over New Zealand's Monty Betham, a guy who subsequently held the British Commonwealth title.

Marshall didn't have many fights. He was only 10-3-1 after his Mundine and Betham victories. But those wins were so important that, for a short while at least, Ring Magazine ranked Marshall in their worldwide top-10.

Strangely, I don't recall seeing a single photo of Marshall in the boxing magazines, or in the newspapers. I can't find any detailed descriptions of his fights. There are no videos on Marshall on Youtube. Do you know anything about this guy?

Apparently, Marshall didn't stay in the fight game for too long. He retired with a final record of 11-6-1, after being KO'd by Boogaloo Watts and Miguel Angel Castellini. But Marshall must have been a pretty good fighter if he sparked Mundine and Betham.

Joe
I recall the subject of Marshall coming up once before on the forum. No one including myselfr had much to add.I think someone said that Marshall just lost interest with fighting and disappeared from the scene.Sorry I could not help you out more.Roger

[Chuck1052]

Roger:

Here's another one for you.

What were the Southern California boxing people saying in the spring of 1976, just before Carlos Palomino beat John Stracey for the WBC welterweight title in London? Of course that fight was a huge upset, as Stracey was a 3 to 1 favorite.

I assume you were part of the Los Angeles boxing grapevine at the time. Do you know if the locals gave Carlos much of a chance of winning? I know that Palomino himself was supremely confident of victory. He said that as soon as he signed for that fight, he could feel in his bones that he'd win. Carlos believed that Stracey was made to order for him. But I imagine the Los Angeles boxing crowd must have been skeptical, no?

As for Stracey, I did a lot of newspaper archives reading about him at my local library, seeing what the British newspapers were saying. Believe it not, in 1976 the British boxing journalists were not overly impressed with John. They savaged Stracey in their reviews of his 10th round knockout victory over Hedgemon Lewis earlier that year in March. The newspaper headlines announced "Slow, slow Stracey beats Lewis." The British scribes also claimed that Stracey punched "as if he were lifting weights." So, as amazing as it sounds, the Brits regarded Stracey as a vulnerable champion.

But on both sides of the Atlantic, it was taken for granted that Palomino would not be the guy to beat Stracey. Allegedly the British fight promoters chose Palomino as Stracey's opponent because he was regarded as the weakest and most inexperienced of all the welterweight contenders who were rated at the time. The British also thought that Palomino would was an easy mark for Stracey because he had been held to a 10 round draw by Hedgemon Lewis, a guy that Stracey demolished.



Of course, Palomino shocked the world with his 12th round TKO over Stracey. But again, I must ask: did he surprise you and the other Southern California fight people?

Thanks in advance for anything you have to say on this subject.

John H. Stracey was far from being a great fighter. He had great timing in fighting the badly washed up Jose Napoles for the latter's world welterweight title. Napoles was one of the all-time greats during his peak years.. In regards to Carlos Palomino, I saw him struggle in a bout with Hedgemon Lewis and escape with a draw at the Olympic Auditorium before he went over to England to fight Stracey. That may be one reason that Palomino was a substantial underdog when fighting Stracey. I also believe that there was a tendency to greatly overrate Stracey. According to reports, Palomino landed a lot of body punches to win by stoppage over Stracey and win the world welterweight. While a champion, Palomino improved dramatically as a fighter and was far better than Stracey was on the latter's best day.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Roger:

Here's another one for you.

What were the Southern California boxing people saying in the spring of 1976, just before Carlos Palomino beat John Stracey for the WBC welterweight title in London? Of course that fight was a huge upset, as Stracey was a 3 to 1 favorite.

I assume you were part of the Los Angeles boxing grapevine at the time. Do you know if the locals gave Carlos much of a chance of winning? I know that Palomino himself was supremely confident of victory. He said that as soon as he signed for that fight, he could feel in his bones that he'd win. Carlos believed that Stracey was made to order for him. But I imagine the Los Angeles boxing crowd must have been skeptical, no?

As for Stracey, I did a lot of newspaper archives reading about him at my local library, seeing what the British newspapers were saying. Believe it not, in 1976 the British boxing journalists were not overly impressed with John. They savaged Stracey in their reviews of his 10th round knockout victory over Hedgemon Lewis earlier that year in March. The newspaper headlines announced "Slow, slow Stracey beats Lewis." The British scribes also claimed that Stracey punched "as if he were lifting weights." So, as amazing as it sounds, the Brits regarded Stracey as a vulnerable champion.

But on both sides of the Atlantic, it was taken for granted that Palomino would not be the guy to beat Stracey. Allegedly the British fight promoters chose Palomino as Stracey's opponent because he was regarded as the weakest and most inexperienced of all the welterweight contenders who were rated at the time. The British also thought that Palomino would was an easy mark for Stracey because he had been held to a 10 round draw by Hedgemon Lewis, a guy that Stracey demolished.



Of course, Palomino shocked the world with his 12th round TKO over Stracey. But again, I must ask: did he surprise you and the other Southern California fight people?

Thanks in advance for anything you have to say on this subject.

John H. Stracey was far from being a great fighter. He had great timing in fighting the badly washed up Jose Napoles for the latter's world welterweight title. Napoles was one of the all-time greats during his peak years.. In regards to Carlos Palomino, I saw him struggle in a bout with Hedgemon Lewis and escape with a draw at the Olympic Auditorium before he went over to England to fight Stracey. That may be one reason that Palomino was a substantial underdog when fighting Stracey. I also believe that there was a tendency to greatly overrate Stracey. According to reports, Palomino landed a lot of body punches to win by stoppage over Stracey and win the world welterweight. While a champion, Palomino improved dramatically as a fighter and was far better than Stracey was on the latter's best day.

- Chuck Johnston

I agree with what you say. I did read in the English newspapers that Stracey's people picked Palomino as an opponent partly because he struggled to a draw with Hedgemon Lewis. As for Stracey, the Palomino fight was an optional title defense. John was due to fight his mandatory challenger Armando Muniz later in 1976, and was looking for some easy money against a beatable opponent before then. That's what led to Palomino.

The Palomino-Stracey fight is available on Youtube. I've seen it a couple of times. Palomino looks great, he puts on a dominant performance. Stracey's camp and the English promoters must have known by the fourth round that Palomino was far better than anyone imagined. Carlos utilizes a quick, straight, strong left-jab that dominates the action from the opening bell. On top of that, he consistently swings perfectly placed, hurtful left hooks to the ribs and liver. Anytime Stracey tries to compensate by moving inside, Palomino rocks him with bazooka-powerful right crosses. It's also obvious that Palomino's physical strength is superior to Stracey's. John was trapped: he couldn't box or slug with Carlos. All Stracey could do was try to survive.

Stracey was outclassed, but deserves credit for putting up a brave, gritty fight. He went out on his shield too. His corner wanted to pull him out of the match after the tenth and 11th rounds, but John refused to quit on his stool.

After the fight, Palomino said of Stracey, "I rate his durability as being very, very high." I found that interesting.

As for Stracey's abilities, it is noteworthy that he was rated no lower than sixth in the world from 1973 onward. So he couldn't have been that bad. Stracey also scored a KO victory over perennial welterweight contender Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez, a victory that counts for something. But yeah, you are correct in saying that Stracey won the WBC title only because he was the right guy fighting the fading Napoles at the right time. He was lucky to have been champion.

Joe
John Stracey won the title from a washed up Jose Napoles.In fact Jose almost had him out of there in the 1st round of their fight.Then Jose's eyes came appart and he wasn't in very good shape and he was finished in 6 rounds.I heard Palomino discuss his fight with Stracey.Carlos conferred with Hedgemon Lewis who had failed in his attempt with the Brit to win the championship.Hedge said that Staracey's main strength was his strength.So Car5los sparred with light heavyweights. He said when he got into the ring with Stracey it was like fighting a flyweight.He said he could push him off like it was nothing.I'll never forget th body shot Palomino hit him with that put him on all fours gasping for air.

[scartissue]

How, the title shot for Palomino occurred is an interesting one and not one I could make up. I got this right from the horse's mouth (no pun intended), from Palomino's. This will also tell you what kind of sway Aileen Eaton wielded in boxing back in the day. Apparently, since the Hedgemon Lewis-Carlos Palomino fight was so good and close, a rematch was signed. Before the rematch could take place, Lewis got the call to fight Stracey for the title. Everyone and his brother was calling the Olympic trying to free Lewis from the contract, but nothing doing. Finally, it took Mickey Duff to contact Aileen to see what it would take to release Lewis from the contract to fight Stracey. Eaton told him to pay Palomino $2,000 for his trouble and to guarantee him the next shot at the title. And the rest is history.

[scartissue]

How, the title shot for Palomino occurred is an interesting one and not one I could make up. I got this right from the horse's mouth (no pun intended), from Palomino's. This will also tell you what kind of sway Aileen Eaton wielded in boxing back in the day. Apparently, since the Hedgemon Lewis-Carlos Palomino fight was so good and close, a rematch was signed. Before the rematch could take place, Lewis got the call to fight Stracey for the title. Everyone and his brother was calling the Olympic trying to free Lewis from the contract, but nothing doing. Finally, it took Mickey Duff to contact Aileen to see what it would take to release Lewis from the contract to fight Stracey. Eaton told him to pay Palomino $2,000 for his trouble and to guarantee him the next shot at the title. And the rest is history.

That's a very interesting story. Curiously, do you have any inside info concerning why the English wanted Lewis as Stracey's opponent? We're there any rumors to the effect that Hedge was on the downside, and that he'd make an easy mark?

I wouldn't say easy in regards to Hedge, but he certainly wasn't the Hedge of old. In his last 6 fights he lost to Napoles and Muniz, struggled with Rafael Rodriguez, whom he shouldn't have had a problem with and struggled to draws with Palomino and Harold Weston. I would say they felt he wasn't the same but still held a rating and a marketable name. A strage fact about Stracey's best 5 wins, which I felt were over Napoles, Lewis, Ernie Lopez, Roger Menetrey and Jack Tillman. In every instance, it was the fighter's final fight. So, one could make that out to be they may have had some fight in them but they were all at the end of the line.

[dagosd2000]

I remember wheh I was a steady watcher of the Thursday night fights from the Olympic Auditorium.Hedgemon Lewis and Erenie Lopez were o a collision course to settle who was the best of the Southland welters.Aileen Eaton had Lewis in the fold and would show him on the tube against so so opposition.He was from Detroit like Ray Robinson and he boxed a lot like Ray.He was the classic stand up style and slick as greased lightning.Lopez was a lot more a diamond in the rough but very strong and had a nasty disposition.

Finally the match was made so I drove up to the Olympic Auditorium to watch the fight.I was pulling for Lewis.The crowd was packed to the doors and the electricity in the air could have ignited a forest fire.I thought Lewis could outbox Ernie.But Hedge's shots had little effect., Ernie wanted him bad.By the mid way point it was evident that Lewis was tiring. He couldn't finish.There were two more bouts.Lewis wining the remtch and you cpould see that Lopez was pissed .Lewis dropped him. The rubber match was like the first fight.Another stoppage for Lopez,

Then finally Mantiequilla got his visa and came to LA,beat Cokes for the title,wiped him out again,and now it was time for Jose to melt Lopez and Lewis.

[dagosd2000]

On the subject of Harry Levin and Micky Duff, I think they utilized that same cagey match-making judgment in picking opponents for Joe Bugner in 1973-74. During that period, they imported Mac Foster, Jose Luis Garcia, and Jimmy Ellis to be knocked off by Bugner, who beat them easily. All three heavyweights were still in the world ratings as of 1972, so they were still recognizable names for the fight fans as late as 1973-74. But by the time Bugner got to them, they were tired, aging fighters on losing streaks, ripe to be beaten.
[/quote]

Joe
That seems to be the way of boxing. Even the greats wind up being setups at the end or washed up to the point they can't even hold their own with an average fighter.I was watching Tyson the other night on YouTube destroy the once great Larry Holmes.Larry hadn't fought in a while and looked the shell of his once m,agnificent self. Then I clicked onto Tyson against Kevin McBride. That was a Tyson who was old and tired.When he said afterward that he "didn't want to do this anymore" it showed in the ring that night.

When a fighter gets that thought in his head he should hang up the gloves.Jose Napoles,who was my favorite fighter,should have called it quits after the rematch with Muniz.But he thought he could cherry pick opponents and keep his title making some money.Then he got caught by Stracey.A humiliating ending to a great career.

[dagosd2000]

No Recuerdos

I've been down here in my wife's hometown of Jiquilpan for the past week in a half.I talked to Rodolofo Gonzalez before I left that I was going down there.He asked me, like he always does when I go down there ,to ask around and see if the people still remember him when he fought in the bullring.Gato fought three times in Jiquilpan when he was just stsrting out as a fighter.His first fight was with a guy who was 29 years old.Gato was 16.That's how it is in Mexico.No one wants to fight amateur because you don't earn any pesos that way so you jump in there with both feet sink or swim.Gato knocked the guy out.

Gato won all his three fights in Jiquilpan. He's from Guadalara.His uncle was Jose Becerra.His cousin,Alacran Torres.Gato had some good teachers.He compiled a knockout streak of over 30 on his way to winning the WBC title from Chango Carmona.Gato always asks me if anyone still remembers him.
"I was a big hero down there you knowe,"says Gato.

I quit asking years ago if anyone in Jiquilpan remembers Rodolfo Gonzalez.I get blank looks and a shake of the head.But I tell Gato every time when I get back that they remember him. He is always very happy when he hears that.Then he'll tell me about the fights he had down there.He'll tell me about the time his uncle Jose Becerra knocked out Eder Jofre to win the bantamweight title and I say nothing.I'm glad he doesn't read anything on BoxRec anymore.

[Chuck1052]

This question is directed to Roger and anyone else here who knew the 1970s Southern California scene.

What about Lonnie Bennett, did you guys know him, or have any inside information about the guy? Bennett of course was a top-10 rated contender in everyone's book between 1974 and 1977. A tallish light-heavyweight at 6"2," Bennett had an extraordinary left-jab that fans called "the magic wand." I also heard reports that Bennett could actually pack a punch, although I don't know if that's true.

It looks like Lonnie got his start as a heavyweight, hitting the scales at 183 lbs or so. But a 5th round stoppage loss to the physically bigger Pedro Lovell apparently convinced him to campaign south of the 175 lbs weight limit. That was a smart move; for a few years Bennett flourished as a light-heayweight. Stoppage wins over Karl Zurheide, Terry Daniels, and Joe Cokes led to Lonnie getting a crack at WBC champ John Conteh in London in 1975. Bennett was doing well in that bout until he incurred a huge cut over one of his eyes, possibly as a result of a head butt. He lost the fight by 5th round TKO.

After losing to Conteh, Bennett reconfirmed his bonafides by scoring victories over Hilda Silva, Baby Boy Rolle and Billy Douglas. His "magic wand" left-jab was a factor in all three wins. I remember watching the Douglas fight live on late night TV, and I thought Bennett looked very impressive.

The end came for Bennett beginning in 1977. In a live televised bout against Yaqui Lopez, Lonnie was getting the crap pounded out of him - including being knocked down - when a clash of heads opened a cut over Yaqui's eye, leading to a third round TKO victory for Bennett. That was a bizarre outcome IMO. I saw the fight live and thought it should have been declared a no-contest. But there was nothing controversial about Lonnie's next fight, a live TV meeting with top contender Jesse Burnett. In this fight, Bennett showed that he was hopelessly over-the-hill. His legs were as stiff as sticks, he visited the canvas four times, and ended up losing by 6th round stoppage. This loss finish Bennett as a top-10 contender.

Lonnie spent the final part of his career playing his own version of "requiem for a heavyweight." He was physically and athletically over the hill and on a losing streak, but he still had a marquee name. That meant Bennett traveled the USA and the world serving as an easy opponent to be KO'd by younger, up-and-coming fighters such as Mike Rossman, Jerry Celestine, Louis Pergaud, and Lotte Mwale. I hope Bennett at least got good paydays for taking these beatings. Either way, he retired after the Celestine loss in 1979.

What can you tell me about Bennett? Inside information interests me especially.

I saw Lonnie Bennett in person win a decision in a ten-round bout with the then-Clown Prince of Boxing, Ray "Windmill" White, at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. The bout was the main event of the first professional boxing show that I attended. Bennett certainly had some good boxing skills and became a light-heavyweight contender. But he was a fringe contender at best.

Since Bennett was not a good drawing card, I doubt if he made much money as a fighter. As a result, he may have had to hold down a regular job during his boxing career.

Jessie Burnett worked fulltime as a landscaper while he was a fighter. in the case of Burnett, he had a great deal of trouble getting bouts, especially lucrative ones. It didn't help that he had a boxing style that was considered somewhat boring. As a result, Burnett often had trouble getting bouts, especially lucrative ones. That may have been a reason why he was willing to accept a bout with Miguel Angel Cuello in Europe on extremely short notice, even if he had to make a very long flight from Southern California. Burnett did very well early in the bout, but faded badly afterwards and literally collapsed from fatigue. It is probable that Burnett had a severe case of jet lag from the long flight. The bout should have been postponed until Burnett got acclaimed, but it was scheduled to be shown on a major television network in the United States. During the rest of his career, Burnett fought at a very deliberate pace, like someone who was unsure of his stamina.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

This question is directed to Roger and anyone else here who knew the 1970s Southern California scene.

What about Lonnie Bennett, did you guys know him, or have any inside information about the guy? Bennett of course was a top-10 rated contender in everyone's book between 1974 and 1977. A tallish light-heavyweight at 6"2," Bennett had an extraordinary left-jab that fans called "the magic wand." I also heard reports that Bennett could actually pack a punch, although I don't know if that's true.

It looks like Lonnie got his start as a heavyweight, hitting the scales at 183 lbs or so. But a 5th round stoppage loss to the physically bigger Pedro Lovell apparently convinced him to campaign south of the 175 lbs weight limit. That was a smart move; for a few years Bennett flourished as a light-heayweight. Stoppage wins over Karl Zurheide, Terry Daniels, and Joe Cokes led to Lonnie getting a crack at WBC champ John Conteh in London in 1975. Bennett was doing well in that bout until he incurred a huge cut over one of his eyes, possibly as a result of a head butt. He lost the fight by 5th round TKO.

After losing to Conteh, Bennett reconfirmed his bonafides by scoring victories over Hilda Silva, Baby Boy Rolle and Billy Douglas. His "magic wand" left-jab was a factor in all three wins. I remember watching the Douglas fight live on late night TV, and I thought Bennett looked very impressive.

The end came for Bennett beginning in 1977. In a live televised bout against Yaqui Lopez, Lonnie was getting the crap pounded out of him - including being knocked down - when a clash of heads opened a cut over Yaqui's eye, leading to a third round TKO victory for Bennett. That was a bizarre outcome IMO. I saw the fight live and thought it should have been declared a no-contest. But there was nothing controversial about Lonnie's next fight, a live TV meeting with top contender Jesse Burnett. In this fight, Bennett showed that he was hopelessly over-the-hill. His legs were as stiff as sticks, he visited the canvas four times, and ended up losing by 6th round stoppage. This loss finish Bennett as a top-10 contender.

Lonnie spent the final part of his career playing his own version of "requiem for a heavyweight." He was physically and athletically over the hill and on a losing streak, but he still had a marquee name. That meant Bennett traveled the USA and the world serving as an easy opponent to be KO'd by younger, up-and-coming fighters such as Mike Rossman, Jerry Celestine, Louis Pergaud, and Lotte Mwale. I hope Bennett at least got good paydays for taking these beatings. Either way, he retired after the Celestine loss in 1979.

What can you tell me about Bennett? Inside information interests me especially.

I saw Lonnie Bennett in person win a decision in a ten-round bout with the then-Clown Prince of Boxing, Ray "Windmill" White, at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. The bout was the main event of the first professional boxing show that I attended. Bennett certainly had some good boxing skills and became a light-heavyweight contender. But he was a fringe contender at best.

Since Bennett was not a good drawing card, I doubt if he made much money as a fighter. As a result, he may have had to hold down a regular job during his boxing career.

Jessie Burnett worked fulltime as a landscaper while he was a fighter. in the case of Burnett, he had a great deal of trouble getting bouts, especially lucrative ones. It didn't help that he had a boxing style that was considered somewhat boring. As a result, Burnett often had trouble getting bouts, especially lucrative ones. That may have been a reason why he was willing to accept a bout with Miguel Angel Cuello in Europe on extremely short notice, even if he had to make a very long flight from Southern California. Burnett did very well early in the bout, but faded badly afterwards and literally collapsed from fatigue. It is probable that Burnett had a severe case of jet lag from the long flight. The bout should have been postponed until Burnett got acclaimed, but it was scheduled to be shown on a major television network in the United States. During the rest of his career, Burnett fought at a very deliberate pace, like someone who was unsure of his stamina.

- Chuck Johnston

Joe
I always put Bennett and Burnett together because they had a similar style of fighting and more or less alike careers..When I was hanging around the gyms in San Diego the ace in the hole for fighters like those two I mentioned and guys like Ronnie Wilson and Denny Moyer was to fight a main event at The Silver Slipper Hotel in Las Vegas for the standard fee of 15 hundered dollars.One time Moyer and Wilson ,who were stablemates,said they hooked up with Bennett in Vegas before Denny had a match at The Slipper.They went out on the town the night BEFORE the fight but Denny got trhe decision anyway despite the hangover.

[dagosd2000]

The Calming Of The Storm

After Jose Napoles made quick work of Curtis Cokes ,winning the welterweight title and then defending the crown in the rematch,Cokes was quoted in the ring through swollwn lips,
"Jose Napoles is a better fighter than I am."

After brushing aside Cokes,Jose's next defense was against Emile Griffith who had climbed into the middleweight ranks and had held the title for a brief period.When the fight was made both fighters were well under the welterweight limit.Napoles won the fight surprisingly easy. He even caught Emile coming in and dropped him for a short count in the 4th round.Afterwards the Griffith faction said that Emile had sweated himself dry to make weight and didn't have enough gas in his tank to fight like he did when he was on top of the 147 pound division.

I saw the fight on Mexican television but there wasn't any copy of the fight so I could look again and perhaps form a second opinion.Then on You Tube appeared a very scratchy copy of the fight and I got a chance to watch it again.Emile Griffith was one of those fighters who could see everything in front of him and then figure out a game plan.Against Napoles he was kinda in a fog.Jose was one step ahead of him. At times Emile looked frustrated. After the final bell Napoles went to Emile's corner and put his arm around him and then walked him to his corner. For me that was very touching.It was Emile who killed Jose's compadre from Cuba Benny Paret.in front of a national audience on TV. There was animosity between the two fighters because Paret had jibed Emile about his homosexuality before the fight.But Griffith was viewed by some as a monster who relished in Paret's death. That wasn't so.

At one of the last World Boxing Hall Of Fame events in LA I was statying at the Marriott Hotel where the event was being held.My room was next to Emile Griffith's.He was there with his caretaker.When it was time to take the elevastor and go upstairs for the ceremony Emile put his nose presed against the elevator door. He was crying and telling his caretaker he was scared and hungry.I was standing behind both of them.It was evident that the dementia had got into him.

During a break in the ceremony I sat with Griffith in the lobby and bought his biography which he signed.I asked him who was his toughest opponent.
"Jose Napoles," he replied.without hesitating.
He didn't elaborate why. Then he began to tremble. I asked him if I could take a picture of him seated next to my wife.My motive was ulterior.My wife saw his condition and snuggled close to him.He began controlling his breath and eased.He broke out in a wide grin and began to laugh.His caretaker took him by the arm and they went to dinner. As they were walking to the diningroom the caretaker looked at my wife.
"Thank you for settliing him down.I thought I might have to take him back to his room.He hasn't eaten all day.Thank you again."
As they entered th diningroom I looked over to my wife.She had a sort of sad look on her face as she watched Griffith with his caretaker.I was glad she had calmed him down.But then she has that affect on people.

[goose 5]

Hi Roger: Griffith is a personal favorite and his condition was very sad- as is the condition of Terry Norris; did you ever see Norris fight in San Diego ?