Overweight heavyweights - what would be their ideal fighting weight?

[oogiebe]

If Ruiz were to follow a good diet, coupled with resistance training, he could lose 0.5-1% of his bodyweight per week without losing much muscle and get down to 200lb in good shape in about 30 weeks. That's not what I'm recommending, for him (focusing on training is way more important for a boxer) but it's certainly possible.

Losing 50lbs in 30 weeks might be physically possible, but he’d have to undergo an extremely strict regime, which will probably be harmful to his body, such as causing excessive muscle atrophy.

So we agree, it'll make him a weaker fighter.

He needs to actually forget about his weight an instead focus on training hard, getting plenty of rest and sleep, as well as eating a healthy diet.

If he can do those three simple things, day-after-day, to the point it's part of his permanent ongoing lifestyle, then he'll lose weight in a healthy manner. And as long as he maintains this lifestyle, then he shouldn't regain it either. But this process takes time (several years) and requires discipline.

If Andy did get down to around 230lbs to 240lbs though, he'll always look a bit tubby (a bit like Tyson Fury does), because of skin elasticity. His skin won't snap back to its original shape.

Nah, it's easy to train and lose 2-4 pounds per week very very healthily, and even while putting on muscle.

[jezzamundo]

If Ruiz were to follow a good diet, coupled with resistance training, he could lose 0.5-1% of his bodyweight per week without losing much muscle and get down to 200lb in good shape in about 30 weeks. That's not what I'm recommending, for him (focusing on training is way more important for a boxer) but it's certainly possible.

Losing 50lbs in 30 weeks might be physically possible, but he’d have to undergo an extremely strict regime, which will probably be harmful to his body, such as causing excessive muscle atrophy.

So we agree, it'll make him a weaker fighter.

He needs to actually forget about his weight an instead focus on training hard, getting plenty of rest and sleep, as well as eating a healthy diet.

If he can do those three simple things, day-after-day, to the point it's part of his permanent ongoing lifestyle, then he'll lose weight in a healthy manner. And as long as he maintains this lifestyle, then he shouldn't regain it either. But this process takes time (several years) and requires discipline.

If Andy did get down to around 230lbs to 240lbs though, he'll always look a bit tubby (a bit like Tyson Fury does), because of skin elasticity. His skin won't snap back to its original shape.

Nah, it's easy to train and lose 2-4 pounds per week very very healthily, and even while putting on muscle.

Possible yes, easy no. The proven rate is 0.5-1% per week without muscle loss - that would be 1.25-2.5lb per week for Andy based on a weight of 250lb. He doesn't need to build any more muscle. Ideally though, weight loss should not be the focus of training camp.

[oogiebe]

Losing 50lbs in 30 weeks might be physically possible, but he’d have to undergo an extremely strict regime, which will probably be harmful to his body, such as causing excessive muscle atrophy.

So we agree, it'll make him a weaker fighter.

He needs to actually forget about his weight an instead focus on training hard, getting plenty of rest and sleep, as well as eating a healthy diet.

If he can do those three simple things, day-after-day, to the point it's part of his permanent ongoing lifestyle, then he'll lose weight in a healthy manner. And as long as he maintains this lifestyle, then he shouldn't regain it either. But this process takes time (several years) and requires discipline.

If Andy did get down to around 230lbs to 240lbs though, he'll always look a bit tubby (a bit like Tyson Fury does), because of skin elasticity. His skin won't snap back to its original shape.

Nah, it's easy to train and lose 2-4 pounds per week very very healthily, and even while putting on muscle.

Possible yes, easy no. The proven rate is 0.5-1% per week without muscle loss - that would be 1.25-2.5lb per week for Andy based on a weight of 250lb. He doesn't need to build any more muscle. Ideally though, weight loss should not be the focus of training camp.

Fat loss. I'm figuring overall weight loss due to fat coming off. If the guy walks around at 300 then your .05-1%/week starts out around 2/3 pounds per week and gradually reduces as the mass goes down. Easy/peasy. We're talking 30 weeks here.

[gregregegg]

If Ruiz were to follow a good diet, coupled with resistance training, he could lose 0.5-1% of his bodyweight per week without losing much muscle and get down to 200lb in good shape in about 30 weeks. That's not what I'm recommending, for him (focusing on training is way more important for a boxer) but it's certainly possible.

Losing 50lbs in 30 weeks might be physically possible, but he’d have to undergo an extremely strict regime, which will probably be harmful to his body, such as causing excessive muscle atrophy.

So we agree, it'll make him a weaker fighter.

He needs to actually forget about his weight an instead focus on training hard, getting plenty of rest and sleep, as well as eating a healthy diet.

If he can do those three simple things, day-after-day, to the point it's part of his permanent ongoing lifestyle, then he'll lose weight in a healthy manner. And as long as he maintains this lifestyle, then he shouldn't regain it either. But this process takes time (several years) and requires discipline.

If Andy did get down to around 230lbs to 240lbs though, he'll always look a bit tubby (a bit like Tyson Fury does), because of skin elasticity. His skin won't snap back to its original shape.

Nah, it's easy to train and lose 2-4 pounds per week very very healthily, and even while putting on muscle.

Trying to keep muscle while on a deficits and maintaining elite cardio is like splitting the atom… especially when your a big unit.

[oogiebe]

Losing 50lbs in 30 weeks might be physically possible, but he’d have to undergo an extremely strict regime, which will probably be harmful to his body, such as causing excessive muscle atrophy.

So we agree, it'll make him a weaker fighter.

He needs to actually forget about his weight an instead focus on training hard, getting plenty of rest and sleep, as well as eating a healthy diet.

If he can do those three simple things, day-after-day, to the point it's part of his permanent ongoing lifestyle, then he'll lose weight in a healthy manner. And as long as he maintains this lifestyle, then he shouldn't regain it either. But this process takes time (several years) and requires discipline.

If Andy did get down to around 230lbs to 240lbs though, he'll always look a bit tubby (a bit like Tyson Fury does), because of skin elasticity. His skin won't snap back to its original shape.

Nah, it's easy to train and lose 2-4 pounds per week very very healthily, and even while putting on muscle.

Trying to keep muscle while on a deficits and maintaining elite cardio is like splitting the atom… especially when your a big unit.

If you're trying to shred, yeah, but just getting down from +20% body fat isn't a struggle. not the same.

[jezzamundo]

Nah, it's easy to train and lose 2-4 pounds per week very very healthily, and even while putting on muscle.

Trying to keep muscle while on a deficits and maintaining elite cardio is like splitting the atom… especially when your a big unit.

If you're trying to shred, yeah, but just getting down from +20% body fat isn't a struggle. not the same.

This is true - being a big unit actually makes fat loss while retaining muscle easier. The fatter you are, the easier to lose weight and the more like to retain your muscle. It's crash dieting at a fast pace, or cutting down from an already low bodyfat that gets people in trouble.

[polecateddy]

Is it Nandrolone that is the steroid of choice for people on a dramatic cut? I think as has been said if you cut too quickly it’s the muscle going. No doubt he will be maintaining a high protein diet and hopefully getting proper nutritional advice. I’d think Ruiz is coming down from 30% bodyfat and anything under 20% will be regarded as a good end result. Likewise Fury is probably at best getting down to say 19% these days. I don’t think either Ruiz or Fury will be able to get to 15%. I doubt there’s really any heavyweights who get down to single digits. Peak Joshua is probably 11-12%.

[jezzamundo]

Is it Nandrolone that is the steroid of choice for people on a dramatic cut? I think as has been said if you cut too quickly it’s the muscle going. No doubt he will be maintaining a high protein diet and hopefully getting proper nutritional advice. I’d think Ruiz is coming down from 30% bodyfat and anything under 20% will be regarded as a good end result. Likewise Fury is probably at best getting down to say 19% these days. I don’t think either Ruiz or Fury will be able to get to 15%. I doubt there’s really any heavyweights who get down to single digits. Peak Joshua is probably 11-12%.

I reckon Fury was close to 30% for the third Wilder fight, not that it matters or can be measured precisely.

[polecateddy]

Is it Nandrolone that is the steroid of choice for people on a dramatic cut? I think as has been said if you cut too quickly it’s the muscle going. No doubt he will be maintaining a high protein diet and hopefully getting proper nutritional advice. I’d think Ruiz is coming down from 30% bodyfat and anything under 20% will be regarded as a good end result. Likewise Fury is probably at best getting down to say 19% these days. I don’t think either Ruiz or Fury will be able to get to 15%. I doubt there’s really any heavyweights who get down to single digits. Peak Joshua is probably 11-12%.

I reckon Fury was close to 30% for the third Wilder fight, not that it matters or can be measured precisely.

I think as someone said above, it definitely does matter from a cardio point of view. Fury in comparison to his leaner days, he will be slower, more sluggish and get tired more easily. Now Wilder might be such a bad fighter that he can get away with that stuff. But that 3rd fight was a bit of a struggle when the reality is Fury has the talent to have made it easy.

[gilgamesh]

There is always discussion around the physiques of too heavyweight fighters. As we know, boxing isn't a beauty contest - anyone who looks at the Fury-wilder matchups knows that's the truth.

That said, when fighters come in clearly overweight (fat or over muscle-bound) it clearly affects their speed and stamina.

Question - what do you think is the best fighting weight for the following heavyweights?:

Tyson Fury
Oleksander Usyk
Anthony Joshua
Deontay Wilder
Diillian Whyte
Joseph Parker
Dereck Chisora
Luis Ortiz
Andy Ruiz

Fury would probably be best in the mid 270's.

Usyk...I mean I don't know what he weighed for the AJ fight but that seemed to work out fine for him.

AJ probably the low 230's would be ideal for him. He's a bit overly bulky.

Wilder obviously was at his best between 210 and 215.

With the rest I don't even think I care.

Andy Ruiz would probably be a Cruiserweight if he was actually in shape. He's easily 50 pounds overweight.

Interesting that you say so high for Fury but not others. He was seriously overweight at 277lb for the third Wilder fight and his stamina was poorer for it. That said, he looked more solid at 273lb in his previous outing.

Joshua was probably overly muscle-bound in the 250s, but he looks good around 240lb and his stamina is better. But if he wants to bully Usyk around in the rematch he should come in heavier.

You're right that Ruiz could make cruiserweights, but it wouldn't be a good career move more him, even if he did have the discipline to make weight.

Yeah I don't blame him for pursuing the Heavyweight money. I'm sure he made more for the AJ fight and rematch than he ever would've made for a whole career as a Cruiserweight.

I put Fury's best fighting weight so high because that's a little lower than where he's been, and he's looked great, and fights effectively. As far as not having a muscular looking physique I think he's just built like that. The dude's in shape though.

Wilder was between 210 and 215 when he dropped Fury twice and earned a draw, he was 20 pounds heavier when he got knocked out by him twice.

[jezzamundo]

Fury would probably be best in the mid 270's.

Usyk...I mean I don't know what he weighed for the AJ fight but that seemed to work out fine for him.

AJ probably the low 230's would be ideal for him. He's a bit overly bulky.

Wilder obviously was at his best between 210 and 215.

With the rest I don't even think I care.

Andy Ruiz would probably be a Cruiserweight if he was actually in shape. He's easily 50 pounds overweight.

Interesting that you say so high for Fury but not others. He was seriously overweight at 277lb for the third Wilder fight and his stamina was poorer for it. That said, he looked more solid at 273lb in his previous outing.

Joshua was probably overly muscle-bound in the 250s, but he looks good around 240lb and his stamina is better. But if he wants to bully Usyk around in the rematch he should come in heavier.

You're right that Ruiz could make cruiserweights, but it wouldn't be a good career move more him, even if he did have the discipline to make weight.

Yeah I don't blame him for pursuing the Heavyweight money. I'm sure he made more for the AJ fight and rematch than he ever would've made for a whole career as a Cruiserweight.

I put Fury's best fighting weight so high because that's a little lower than where he's been, and he's looked great, and fights effectively. As far as not having a muscular looking physique I think he's just built like that. The dude's in shape though.

Wilder was between 210 and 215 when he dropped Fury twice and earned a draw, he was 20 pounds heavier when he got knocked out by him twice.

You think he looked great for the third Wilder fight? Despite being only 4lb heavier, he was visibly fatter and looked exhausted at various stages (though I think that was more to do with having a poor training camp than the fat). I think Wilder being stopped was more to do with Fury's change in trainers and tactics than anything else.

[gilgamesh]

I thought he looked pretty good for the 3rd fight yeah. He got up from a shot that would've finished most guys, and only lost like 2 or 3 rounds out of 11. Not my idea of a bad performance. He wasn't as dominant as he was in the 2nd fight, but he still ultimately got the same result.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Hard to believe we got fully growed men here who follow and post incessantly about boxing, yet can't understand basic human physiology in all it's myriad manifestations beyond one size fits all. 

Here another Mex-American born in a border state who was 250lb age 13 when he took up boxing, turning pro age 16 in Mexico without the benefit of a single ama fight, David Benavidez, the 2x 168 WBC champ, 4-0, 3 KO WBC record by age 23. He's obviously a stick at 168 with a completely different build than the massive torso of Ruiz.



Ah, yet both have been savaged by modern superduper knowitalls, Bena for only once missing weight, and Andy for huge weight fluctuations that have seen him knockout the Juggernaut AJ after a half dozen heavies including Blubber Fury got the hell out of Dodge when AJ came to America.

Andy Ama record starts at superheavy, age 17 with pro debut in Mexico age 19 and never been anything but a superheavy. Bena prob never be able to match Andy Ring earnings, maybe 15mil for the two AJ fights alone, but he's perfectly poised for Canelo Sweepstakes at 168-170 that would be a huge Border fight, guaranteed.

Here's what you anorexics would have them look like.





Here a genuine, irredeemable fat load.



Now, your ideal p4p champion

 

BTW, the other Uncle Al and Tawan Brawley and her "associates" never paid the civil damages of several hundreds of thousand$ for the false charge of kidnapping and rape leveled against a policeman that was racially motivated enough to stir up the kind of hatred he's best noted for.