Chartchai Chionoi

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 20 Jul 2006, 13:27

I'll be interviewing Chartchai Chionoi in the next day or two. If anyone knows who he is, he's arguably one the greatest Thai fighters to ever come out of the country, at least in the top three....

1) Chartchai Chionoi
2) Pone Kingpetch
3) Khaosai Galaxy

If anyone has any questions they'd like t have answered, let me know as I'm making up my list of questions now and will find out tomorrow when and where we'll meet. I'm looking forward to meeting him....

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Jul 2006, 16:59

sure scott!

ask him about his fight with Masao Ohba for the WBA flyweight title

also ask him wut was his peak fight??? wut was his greatest accomplishment?

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 20 Jul 2006, 19:35

Hey Scott: Ask him about his fights with Mexican Efren "Alacran" Torres

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 20 Jul 2006, 20:14

I had planned to ask about Torres and Ohba as well as what he thought his defining moment in the sport was....I'll know in a couple of hours when I'll meet with him....hopefully later today.

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 21 Jul 2006, 10:29

Spent half the day with Chartchai Chionoi today. The guy is a real character and the nicest and funniest fighter I think I've ever met. Just a great, down to earth guy with a load of stories. I may do a story on him for one of the magazines but he certainly warrants a long chapter in the book I'm writing. I'll be going to Chiang Mai in the next few weeks to talk with him again and to get some photos for the book - this guy has done far more than any Thai I can think of, even Pone Kingpetch. Definitely the funnest interview I've ever done but he had a long career and fougt some excellent fighters and won most of them.....It was a good day and I'm really happy I got to meet him and hang out with him and his family....

Here's a shot of him...

http://www.fareastphotos.com/IMG_5959b.jpg

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 21 Jul 2006, 10:33

The guy looks great . Good shape, picture of health. Cant be too far removed from his fighting weight.
Good to see.

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 21 Jul 2006, 10:46

expug wrote:The guy looks great . Good shape, picture of health. Cant be too far removed from his fighting weight.
Good to see.

He's sixty-four and is solid man, solid as a rock. He has Alzheimers but not really severe yet and he laughs about it, shaking his head and saying "headache - sometimes I get headaches trying to think."

I've met and hung out with just about every good to great Thai fighter and quite a few other fighters in the US and he's my favorite, not to mention the fighter who made me feel honored to be hanging out with him. He made it a point to tell me how happy he was I came and saw him and that I actually knew about him and so many other boxers of Thailand....that was nice.

He's met the King of Thailand and became friends with him. Met Prince Ranier at an amusement park and has been around the world. Not your stereotypical Thai who comes to the US and can't speak a word of English. He surprised me with his proficiency. His wife is darling and after nearly fifty years they're still best friends and he worships her. They don't fit the bill of another stereotype; the old Thai fighter/family who's broke and down and out. The history they have together and in boxing is so long (50 years) that their memory book is full of story after story from the 50's until now....

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 21 Jul 2006, 10:54

I was in Thailand visiting 15 or so years ago.
I was impressed with the Thai respect for fighters/fighting. Obviously with Muay Thai as popular as it is. I enjoyed an evening at Lumpini, but everyone also would talk quite a bit about there appreciation of KhaosaiGalaxy as well. They seemed to love boxing also.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 22 Jul 2006, 08:53

Look forward to reading what you put togther on C. Chionoi - He was a heck of a fighter -

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Jul 2006, 11:12

Glad you met up with him Scott... I agree that Chartai is probably Thailands greatest ever fighters... one of the things that impresses me about his career is the times he came back from defeats to regain the title after he had been written off... shame he has Alzhimers but good to see that he is happy and looks to be otherwise in good shape.
Any chance that you could give a contact address for Chartai as I'd quite like to write to him....

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 22 Jul 2006, 13:57

silkov wrote:Glad you met up with him Scott... I agree that Chartai is probably Thailands greatest ever fighters... one of the things that impresses me about his career is the times he came back from defeats to regain the title after he had been written off... shame he has Alzhimers but good to see that he is happy and looks to be otherwise in good shape.
Any chance that you could give a contact address for Chartai as I'd quite like to write to him....

He's got lovely wife who he adores and who he's been with for 45 + years and four kids and according to him, they are the key to his happiness.

As far as his contact address, I don't give out anyone's information unless they tell me it's ok. Maybe when I see him again I can ask him but not until then.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 22 Jul 2006, 18:23

OK I have to comment on this diagnosis, Alzheimer's is one hell of a difficult diagnosis to pinpoint. In fact it can not be certainly determined until one is dead and you can do a biopsy. I hope his Dr's have really done there homework and know his history because with fighters it is entirely possible that all he has are symptoms in line with a few knocks to the noggin and some doctors will rush to judgement with the Alzheimers theory.

There is little difference in the early stages but there is a huge difference in how life will play out. If all he has is a bit of "post pugilisitc career syndrome" (I'm coining the phrase) he will have may fine years ahead of him with no further erosion.

Alzheimers can not be accurately diagnosed and for a fighter it is even more complex to ascertain accuracy. I wish him well and want to say that due to his career his Doctor could easily be wrong about this. I hope that is the case. He seems like a very interesting character and I wish him well.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Jul 2006, 18:30

Its probable that he has pugilistic Alzhimers, I believe Jimmy Young had it yet could remember all the dates and details of his fights... what ever he's got I hope he is under the supervision of a good doctor as the chances are that he will deteriorate unfortunately....

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 22 Jul 2006, 21:34

When I first saw him I thought he had Parkinson's. When the family is telling you that he has Alzheimers though, you don't argue with them. I will ask more when I see him again. He seemed a bit slow to remember but most of all, he really slurred his words at times. Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't. He's not down and out on the skids and is being taken care of so let's not make more our of it than we should - he wouldn't wan t this. Like I said, when I see him again I'll talk more with him about it.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 23 Jul 2006, 09:43

scottmallon wrote:When I first saw him I thought he had Parkinson's. When the family is telling you that he has Alzheimers though, you don't argue with them. I will ask more when I see him again. He seemed a bit slow to remember but most of all, he really slurred his words at times. Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't. He's not down and out on the skids and is being taken care of so let's not make more our of it than we should - he wouldn't wan t this. Like I said, when I see him again I'll talk more with him about it.

Maybe you shouldnt really mention it, don't want to embarrass him. Sounds as though he has a good family around him and I should think they will look after him alright. Did he ever mention his father, I think his father trained him, but they had a fairly volatile relationship....
Also ask him about the first fight with Efren Torres, one of the best flyweight fights I've ever seen...

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 01 Aug 2006, 08:28

I spent three days with Chionoi and his family this past weekend and had a great time not to mention learning more about him and his life. His home is a shrine to him basically with photos from the last 50 years or so all over the house. What a great guy and great family. They've been wonderful and he's the fighter who has had the most influence on me. He's got story after story and he's a riot.

His family was kind enough to loan me 6 albums of photos which I am going to scan. They also gave me a scrapbook of newspaper articles from around the world which I'm going to scan as well.

I'm hesitant to write too much now as I'm doing a piece for Ring Magazine, The SweetScience website, maybe The Fist, maybe Boxing Monthly and he'll have a long chapter in my book...as long as someone will publish it. I'm considering writing a book about him but we'll see how it goes. I'll be seeing him and his family again and I consider his family to be friends now, not just a subject of my work. I'll write more later but I'm beat and rather busy so I don't have much time. In the mean time, here's a couple of photos.....

Chionoi with a friend in front of his new car

http://www.fareastphotos.com/c8.jpg

Chionoi versus McGowan

http://www.fareastphotos.com/c9.jpg

Baan Chionoi (The Chionoi Home) - His house sits on about 35 rai.

http://www.fareastphotos.com/c7.jpg

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Aug 2006, 09:01

Thanks for the info... his home looks very peaceful... what has he been doing since he retired from boxing, did he have any other careers or do any training... I think Chartai would be a great subject for a book....

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 01 Aug 2006, 09:14

silkov wrote:Thanks for the info... his home looks very peaceful... what has he been doing since he retired from boxing, did he have any other careers or do any training... I think Chartai would be a great subject for a book....

He hasn't worked a lick since he retired. He retired financially fit unlike many other fighters, this can be attributed to his wife Oot who has been with him every step of the way. He's got land all over Thailand and as is the culture in Thailand, his children help provide for him as well. So he's doing fine. His house is fantastic, actually his house is modest but the land it's on is beautiful. We went to another piece of land he has which isn't far from his house and it's got a nice waterfall on it. Great place to chill out....

barry · Post by **barry** » 01 Aug 2006, 10:06

Now this is the kind of fighter who, in my opinion, should be given Hall of Fame consideration before the Carbajals, Gonzalez', McGuigans' and other more recent guys, but it is rare for a fighter like Chionoi to get any vote; I don’t even know if he is even on the ballot.

A three time flyweight champion, who beat some really good opposition, was very successful and was still a top ranked fighter late in his career...for nearly twenty years total. That kind of successful longevity is a rarity for the smallest fighters…hell, it’s a rarity for the bigger fighters to be right at the top of they’re respective division for 15+ years.

Is he a Hall of Famer…maybe not, but Asian fighters like Chionoi should certainly get a lot more consideration than they do!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Aug 2006, 10:27

Chinoi should definately be in the hall... but look at the lack of respect generally for fighers from that part of the world... Fighting Harada is always rated way below Eder Jofre despite beating him twice when Jofre was in his prime!...

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 01 Aug 2006, 10:30

barry wrote:Now this is the kind of fighter who, in my opinion, should be given Hall of Fame consideration before the Carbajals, Gonzalez', McGuigans' and other more recent guys, but it is rare for a fighter like Chionoi to get any vote; I don’t even know if he is even on the ballot.

A three time flyweight champion, who beat some really good opposition, was very successful and was still a top ranked fighter late in his career...for nearly twenty years total. That kind of successful longevity is a rarity for the smallest fighters…hell, it’s a rarity for the bigger fighters to be right at the top of they’re respective division for 15+ years.

Is he a Hall of Famer…maybe not, but Asian fighters like Chionoi should certainly get a lot more consideration than they do!

Glad we agree on something Barry! This guy is everything a fighter should be and some of the stories he and his family told me make me even more respectful of his abilities and determination. Alot of what he did came from sheer determination....

I've got some great photos and basically I have been given a window into his life. It's really something when you're sitting with a fighter like him, listening to his stories and sitting among his photos and belts. He doesn't watch boxing much anymore for a variety of reasons but he doesn't like the fact alot of the sport has been taken out of boxing. He likes peace and quiet and although he's often asked to attend fights he always declines. He NEEDS his peace and quiet and he abhorse being wai'd by everyone who sees him. It irritates him to sit at a fight, already loud and busy, and then have one person after another dropping at his feet in reverance to him. He just wants to watch the fight and be a regular guy and it's hard for him to be this in Bangkok.

We were at a small market in the north of Thailand and a lady in the market asked, "Isn't he a boxing champion...Chionoi???" So in Thailand, even now, people do remember.

barry · Post by **barry** » 01 Aug 2006, 10:52

>>>So in Thailand, even now, people do remember<<<

That is good though. It's too bad that many other parts of the world are of the ilk of "What have you done lately" of athletes. The USA is probably one of the worst in that area and it is no longer really popular to be a big fan of the humble, quiet hero who walks the walk, but doesn't need to talk the talk. It seems like a lot of people want the disrespectful loud-mouth athlete to root for.

You and I have had a pretty dirty argument of late, but I think it is absolutely wonderful that you are interviewing many of these former champions and other fighters and you should certainly be commended for it because there are really so very few people who actually do it...you are “walking the walk” and it is a really important and noble thing that you are doing with the Thai boxers.

And when you write your book on these fighters it will be a very important book in boxing history…like what Kevin Smith is accomplishing with his volumes on the early Black fighters, you will be doing with Thai fighters.

I would like to see a lot more people taking notice and take it upon themselves to follow the same kind of route and cover the boxers from whatever country the person is from. It’s certainly not something that anyone will get rich by doing, boxing books just do not make the kind of money that other sports do, but in a historical sense…books of the kind are priceless accounts of history and there really are such a very, very small number of books covering a certain country, or a certain ethnicity of fighter.

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 01 Aug 2006, 11:30

barry wrote:>>>So in Thailand, even now, people do remember<<<

That is good though. It's too bad that many other parts of the world are of the ilk of "What have you done lately" of athletes. The USA is probably one of the worst in that area and it is no longer really popular to be a big fan of the humble, quiet hero who walks the walk, but doesn't need to talk the talk. It seems like a lot of people want the disrespectful loud-mouth athlete to root for.

You and I have had a pretty dirty argument of late, but I think it is absolutely wonderful that you are interviewing many of these former champions and other fighters and you should certainly be commended for it because there are really so very few people who actually do it...you are “walking the walk” and it is a really important and noble thing that you are doing with the Thai boxers.

And when you write your book on these fighters it will be a very important book in boxing history…like what Kevin Smith is accomplishing with his volumes on the early Black fighters, you will be doing with Thai fighters.

I would like to see a lot more people taking notice and take it upon themselves to follow the same kind of route and cover the boxers from whatever country the person is from. It’s certainly not something that anyone will get rich by doing, boxing books just do not make the kind of money that other sports do, but in a historical sense…books of the kind are priceless accounts of history and there really are such a very, very small number of books covering a certain country, or a certain ethnicity of fighter.

Thanks Barry.

I'm not expecting to get rich but I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't be nice to get some of the expense money back; sort of like a risky savings account putting my money into a project like this. I'm working on another project now, a film documentary, and if it comes through it will lighten up my load for a while which will be nice. What is important to me though is the historical value and the way I'm viewed in Thai society. It's funny but ever since I got my press card here it's gotten alot easier with the boxing community. Yesterday on the way back there was a police road block and they started fishing around to see if they could get a little pocket money out of us. I whipped out the press card and that was the end of that. The power of the press has some rewards at times, other than being ringside.

What I'm finding out also is writing a book like this is, especially considering how this part of Thai culture is generally closed to outsiders, is not something that can be accomplished simply by doing an interview. It takes a few interviews and truly getting to know the fighters. It's fun sometimes, work sometimes, rewarding at times and other times frustrating. But in the end, I'm hoping to put together a series of books that my kids will be able to pass on and much like Chartchai, look at many years later and be proud of what I've done. Boxing is not a sport alot of people can make a living at and not one that people go to school for (besides the new promoters school), but what I've found out over the years is that if you like something, truly like it, you'll makes ends meet and money will come. You can't worry about the money as much as just doing a good job.

BTW - I think I might have wrote this but maybe not....

In the next couple of months, and probably in the next week or so, I'll be going out with Chartchai's son, a friend of his and Saman Sorjaturong, Sot Chitalada and Muangchai Kitticasem. We'll be going out to dinner, drinking whiskey and having a good time but my tape recorder will be out so no matter how drunk I may get, I'll still have my questions and their answers on tape!

barry · Post by **barry** » 01 Aug 2006, 12:21

Muangchai Kitticasem is another fighter that does not get a lot of recognition...compared to Chitlada and Sorjaturong, or at least not in other parts of the world though I would imagine that he is pretty popular in Thailand. Personally, I think Carbajal's best fight was his bout with Kittikasem.

Have you met and interviewed Khaosai Galaxy and his brother, or Samson Dutch boy Gym?

Overall, who would you say is the most reviered and most popular boxer in Thai history...Galaxy?

scottmallon · Post by **scottmallon** » 01 Aug 2006, 13:16

barry wrote:Muangchai Kitticasem is another fighter that does not get a lot of recognition...compared to Chitlada and Sorjaturong, or at least not in other parts of the world though I would imagine that he is pretty popular in Thailand. Personally, I think Carbajal's best fight was his bout with Kittikasem.

Have you met and interviewed Khaosai Galaxy and his brother, or Samson Dutch boy Gym?

Overall, who would you say is the most reviered and most popular boxer in Thai history...Galaxy?

I've met Galaxy a couple of times but haven't spent any significant time with him. I will though but I can only do so much in one day and as it's research intensive I sort of need to concentrate on one or two fighters at a time. I'm getting more and more known by the Thais here and it may take me a couple of years to get this done. I'm not sure yet. I may have a couple of chapters done in a month or two and once they're done I'll start looking for a publisher - I'll continue working on the book though even if no one is interested but with the sort of connections I have, the information I have accessible to me and hopefully with my writing skills, I'll be able to put something together that a publisher will be happy to publish. We'll see but I'm really not worried about it as I do believe someone will end up putting it out.

As far as the most revered...it's tough to say really but in most Thais eyes I'd say Pone Kingpetch. Galaxy and Samart Payakarun follow closely but Chartchai is neck and neck with all of them. Kingpetch and Chionoi fought in an era in which many Thais didn't have a TV. At that time, from what I'm told, there was only one TV per twenty households. So they didn't get the exposure that Galaxy got. So far I have to rank Pone as the number one, Chartchai number two and Khaosai number three. Pone will always be the first and while his win-loss record is iffy, he was the first champion boxer produced in Thailand and he did beat some excellent fighters. Chartchai also beat some excellent fighters but he fought 105 times which is triple what Kingpetch fought. Galaxy's opposition was not the best in his day and while he did fight some good fighters, I think he fought a whole lot of poor opposition. At this point I haven't really sat down and got deely critical of each fighters opposition but I will once I've got the profiles of more fighters done. I do believe that Kingpetch, Chionoi and Galaxy deserve to be the top three though.

It's tough to get alot of info on Kingpetch as he's dead. So I really have to dig deep to get the info I feel will do more than just rehash his career. I'm hoping to meet with his son but I'm busy and I can only do so much in a day!

Chartchai Chionoi

Chartchai Chionoi

Spent the Weekend with Chartchai Chionoi and his Family

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