Ingle Pringles Gym - ped users and mostly bums

[Controversial]

It’s nonsense that taking testosterone replacement therapy is normal for people who train in the UK in their 40’s. You will not get it prescribed by a doctor unless you have sub normal testosterone levels.

I assume most people who take testosterone for training purposes aren't getting that prescribed though. I agree that most people in their 40s who train hard aren't taking testosterone, only those looking to build muscle fast.

Nothing to do with building muscle fast. That’s absolute rubbish. What I notice in here is folk with zero experience of a situation make it up as they go along. I have direct experience and that’s why I commented.

So why do people who train hard inject testosterone?

[polecateddy]

It’s nonsense that taking testosterone replacement therapy is normal for people who train in the UK in their 40’s. You will not get it prescribed by a doctor unless you have sub normal testosterone levels.

I assume most people who take testosterone for training purposes aren't getting that prescribed though. I agree that most people in their 40s who train hard aren't taking testosterone, only those looking to build muscle fast.

Nothing to do with building muscle fast. That’s absolute rubbish. What I notice in here is folk with zero experience of a situation make it up as they go along. I have direct experience and that’s why I commented.

The actual supposed methodology of hardcore bodybuilding is to do at least 5 years of full on weight training to say your mid twenties, maximising your natural gains. Then to move onto testosterone, steroids, etc between the ages of say 25 and late 30’s. Then come off all the gear but stay on a normal TRT cycle the rest of your life. The theory being you should be able to maintain gains above what you could have naturally achieved. How many people actually ever manage to pull off this ideal gawd only knows?!

On the flipside its quite dangerous to still be experimenting with heavy PED use in middle age. Growth Hormone to take one example will not only accelerate muscle growth, it will also likely accelerate any cancer you might have lurking in your system. The risk factors become much higher due to age. Being 250 pounds of muscle approaching 50 is a recipe for a heart attack more often than not. Long term PED abuse will change your heart, liver and kidneys in lots of negative ways. If The Rock keels over in the next 3-5 years I would not be remotely surprised.

[polecateddy]

I assume most people who take testosterone for training purposes aren't getting that prescribed though. I agree that most people in their 40s who train hard aren't taking testosterone, only those looking to build muscle fast.

Nothing to do with building muscle fast. That’s absolute rubbish. What I notice in here is folk with zero experience of a situation make it up as they go along. I have direct experience and that’s why I commented.

So why do people who train hard inject testosterone?

It’s to do with not having to worry about dips and valleys with a natural diurnal rhythm. Obviously hard core bodybuilders take testosterone well beyond naturally occurring high levels. But even say a middle aged guy on TRT taking normal amounts and in normal ranges will have advantages as they can keep levels flat/constant, whereas natural people are having good days and bad days effectively due to lots of factors. But that’s where the twice a week thing comes in. If you are taking testosterone but the gaps between taking it are weeks, then the person will not have constant levels and they will be high but then dipping dramatically.

[jimmystone]

My advice is to stay well away from TRT unless you have a serious problem with producing your own. There's a lot of literature out there promoting TRT but it's typical big pharma propaganda. Don't fall into the trap.

Don't listen to bodybuilders you know either. About anything. They are all liars, mostly to themselves.

[polecateddy]

My advice is to stay well away from TRT unless you have a serious problem with producing your own. There's a lot of literature out there promoting TRT but it's typical big pharma propaganda. Don't fall into the trap.

Don't listen to bodybuilders you know either. About anything. They are all liars, mostly to themselves.

The rise of Bro Science on social media. Yes, I think that’s right. TRT is much bigger in America than here. TRT Clinics are two a penny in say California! People should be very cautious. It’s very telling to see from prominent hardcore bodybuilders in or entering middle age, that they are often full of regrets. Nearly everyone will say on reflection they took way too high dosages - more is always better when you’re young. That they didn’t need to go so crazy, and however healthily they are living now they all know there’s a good chance they’ve shaved a good ten years or more off their life expectancies.

[margaret thatcher]

My advice is to stay well away from TRT unless you have a serious problem with producing your own. There's a lot of literature out there promoting TRT but it's typical big pharma propaganda. Don't fall into the trap.

Don't listen to bodybuilders you know either. About anything. They are all liars, mostly to themselves.

The rise of Bro Science on social media. Yes, I think that’s right. TRT is much bigger in America than here. TRT Clinics are two a penny in say California! People should be very cautious. It’s very telling to see from prominent hardcore bodybuilders in or entering middle age, that they are often full of regrets. Nearly everyone will say on reflection they took way too high dosages - more is always better when you’re young. That they didn’t need to go so crazy, and however healthily they are living now they all know there’s a good chance they’ve shaved a good ten years or more off their life expectancies.

what should i use if i want an amazing transformation like usyk going from a ripped 210 cruiser in the ring to a softer 220 heavy?

[Oiky]

I agree with what Dorian Yates said,unless you are competing in bodybuilding at a high level you should not be cycling on anything. Personally i think it is much better to be fit & strong all day long than an all out bodybuilder,really not good for the body long term,nor do i see the point in being able to bang loads of weights while led down on a bench but not be able to do 10pull ups

Mixture of weights,calisthenics & HIIT wont see you far wrong imo

Did see Dorian yates say he advised TRT in men of an age where there natural testosterone levels start to drop,& he also said that cycling on things wrongly as a young man can f**k up your natural T lvls anyway

Personally only thing I take is creatine,I know a few bods who mess with gear so I know a bit about it from them but Im no big brain on the subject

[polecateddy]

I agree with what Dorian Yates said,unless you are competing in bodybuilding at a high level you should not be cycling on anything. Personally i think it is much better to be fit & strong all day long than an all out bodybuilder,really not good for the body long term,nor do i see the point in being able to bang loads of weights while led down on a bench but not be able to do 10pull ups

Mixture of weights,calisthenics & HIIT wont see you far wrong imo

Did see Dorian yates say he advised TRT in men of an age where there natural testosterone levels start to drop,& he also said that cycling on things wrongly as a young man can f**k up your natural T lvls anyway

Personally only thing I take is creatine,I know a few bods who mess with gear so I know a bit about it from them but Im no big brain on the subject

I’ve seen those Dorian interviews. He looks well now but go back to the first ten years after retiring and he looked really unwell and poorly, (and probably was!)

I’m the same. 5 grams of a creatine maintenance dose and whey/casein protein. Anything more experimental substance-wise and you’re into high risk territory. I think most weights gyms will always have a selection of people who don’t look particularly natural and are probably experimenting with Sarms and who knows what else.

[Oiky]

I agree with what Dorian Yates said,unless you are competing in bodybuilding at a high level you should not be cycling on anything. Personally i think it is much better to be fit & strong all day long than an all out bodybuilder,really not good for the body long term,nor do i see the point in being able to bang loads of weights while led down on a bench but not be able to do 10pull ups

Mixture of weights,calisthenics & HIIT wont see you far wrong imo

Did see Dorian yates say he advised TRT in men of an age where there natural testosterone levels start to drop,& he also said that cycling on things wrongly as a young man can f**k up your natural T lvls anyway

Personally only thing I take is creatine,I know a few bods who mess with gear so I know a bit about it from them but Im no big brain on the subject

I’ve seen those Dorian interviews. He looks well now but go back to the first ten years after retiring and he looked really unwell and poorly, (and probably was!)

I’m the same. 5 grams of a creatine maintenance dose and whey/casein protein. Anything more experimental substance-wise and you’re into high risk territory. I think most weights gyms will always have a selection of people who don’t look particularly natural and are probably experimenting with Sarms and who knows what else.

Yeah he didnt look a picture of health did he.

you wont go wrong with the creatine,and of course good diet & proper sleep routine

Yeah definitely a few bang on something,I find some people quite interesting to listen to & talk to about it & you can easily tell the one who knows what hes on to the one whos just having a pop but as you say its all high risk territory and personally for me not worth it

[583940]

Dom should take a ped test for the good of boxing I'd like to see the results of that one

[Wee Tommy]

My advice is to stay well away from TRT unless you have a serious problem with producing your own. There's a lot of literature out there promoting TRT but it's typical big pharma propaganda. Don't fall into the trap.

Don't listen to bodybuilders you know either. About anything. They are all liars, mostly to themselves.

The rise of Bro Science on social media. Yes, I think that’s right. TRT is much bigger in America than here. TRT Clinics are two a penny in say California! People should be very cautious. It’s very telling to see from prominent hardcore bodybuilders in or entering middle age, that they are often full of regrets. Nearly everyone will say on reflection they took way too high dosages - more is always better when you’re young. That they didn’t need to go so crazy, and however healthily they are living now they all know there’s a good chance they’ve shaved a good ten years or more off their life expectancies.

what should i use if i want an amazing transformation like usyk going from a ripped 210 cruiser in the ring to a softer 220 heavy?

[Pugilist-specialist]

how many champions have they produced again ?

British Champions:

Herol Graham, Brian Anderson, Johnny Nelson, Slugger O'Toole, Ryan Rhodes, Chris Saunders, Neville Brown, Jon Thaxton, Junior Witter, Kell Brook, Jon Keeton, Kid Galahad, Bob Ajisafe, Esham Pickering, Carl Johansson, Liam Williams

European Champions:

Herol Graham, Johnny Nelson, Naseem Hamed, Danny McIntosh, Kid Galahad, Jon Thaxton, Esham Pickering, Junior Witter, Yves Ngabu


World Champions:

Naseem Hamed, Johnny Nelson, Junior Witter, Kell Brook, Billy Joe Saunders, Nicola Adams, Kid Galahad

[Switch hitter]

how many champions have they produced again ?

British Champions:

Herol Graham, Brian Anderson, Johnny Nelson, Slugger O'Toole, Ryan Rhodes, Chris Saunders, Neville Brown, Jon Thaxton, Junior Witter, Kell Brook, Jon Keeton, Kid Galahad, Bob Ajisafe, Esham Pickering, Carl Johansson, Liam Williams

European Champions:

Herol Graham, Johnny Nelson, Naseem Hamed, Danny McIntosh, Kid Galahad, Jon Thaxton, Esham Pickering, Junior Witter, Yves Ngabu


World Champions:

Naseem Hamed, Johnny Nelson, Junior Witter, Kell Brook, Billy Joe Saunders, Nicola Adams, Kid Galahad

And the list will get bigger and bigger .....

[Wee Tommy]

I think cos Doms in excellent nick for his age folk automatically assume he’s a steroid head. I think it’s likely he uses at least testosterone but that’s almost normal nowadays for folk who train hard in to their 40s

The evidence against his fighters however is much less conclusive. He trains loads and not many have been popped. Although it’s pretty easy to avoid capture in boxing these days.

I know a pro who goes to the ingle gym for sparring and says it’s different level training than most of the gyms he has been to. The footwork drills especially. He’s very impressed by the place. Him and Willy were at the same club growing up, same club I used to go to as a teenager.

Good nick? He’s up to his neck in bodybuilding culture! It’s nonsense that taking testosterone replacement therapy is normal for people who train in the UK in their 40’s. You will not get it prescribed by a doctor unless you have sub normal testosterone levels. Occasionally people will have low levels through illness. But usually it because you have either deliberately crashed your system prior to getting tested by a doctor or that you have a history of long term testosterone and steroid use and your body cannot produce normal levels naturally. The normal threshold is also set very low in the UK and a sub normal result is actually difficult to achieve. The incentive as to why you’d ever want to do this with normal levels is in the ballpark of batshit crazy. Who wants to have to inject themselves with testosterone twice a week for the rest of their lives if you don’t need to?

Your projecting your own opinion into this mate. If you don’t want to inject yourself that’s fine, loads and loads of people actually do. I’ve been involved in training since I was a kid. I know hundreds of gym goers, cross fitters, powelifters, bodybuilders and just folk who train and the vast majority use some form of PEDs. I used to own a gym and when I sold it the guy who took it over and built it up much bigger sells the steroids, he’s very wealthy from it and the volume he sells in the local area tells its own story. That county is no different from any other in the UK.

Most folk lie about it I will give you that so maybe, with your witch hunt type attitude towards it, people just don’t open up about it to you.

I’ve used testosterone on and off for years and if you dose correctly you can come on and off without much of a problem. Low dosage is the way. The people who have problems tend to take far too much and mix compounds like Anadrol, Trenbolone, Equibol and Nandrolone into their cycles.

[polecateddy]

I think cos Doms in excellent nick for his age folk automatically assume he’s a steroid head. I think it’s likely he uses at least testosterone but that’s almost normal nowadays for folk who train hard in to their 40s

The evidence against his fighters however is much less conclusive. He trains loads and not many have been popped. Although it’s pretty easy to avoid capture in boxing these days.

I know a pro who goes to the ingle gym for sparring and says it’s different level training than most of the gyms he has been to. The footwork drills especially. He’s very impressed by the place. Him and Willy were at the same club growing up, same club I used to go to as a teenager.

Good nick? He’s up to his neck in bodybuilding culture! It’s nonsense that taking testosterone replacement therapy is normal for people who train in the UK in their 40’s. You will not get it prescribed by a doctor unless you have sub normal testosterone levels. Occasionally people will have low levels through illness. But usually it because you have either deliberately crashed your system prior to getting tested by a doctor or that you have a history of long term testosterone and steroid use and your body cannot produce normal levels naturally. The normal threshold is also set very low in the UK and a sub normal result is actually difficult to achieve. The incentive as to why you’d ever want to do this with normal levels is in the ballpark of batshit crazy. Who wants to have to inject themselves with testosterone twice a week for the rest of their lives if you don’t need to?

Your projecting your own opinion into this mate. If you don’t want to inject yourself that’s fine, loads and loads of people actually do. I’ve been involved in training since I was a kid. I know hundreds of gym goers, cross fitters, powelifters, bodybuilders and just folk who train and the vast majority use some form of PEDs. I used to own a gym and when I sold it the guy who took it over and built it up much bigger sells the steroids, he’s very wealthy from it and the volume he sells in the local area tells its own story. That county is no different from any other in the UK.

Most folk lie about it I will give you that so maybe, with your witch hunt type attitude towards it, people just don’t open up about it to you.

I’ve used testosterone on and off for years and if you dose correctly you can come on and off without much of a problem. Low dosage is the way. The people who have problems tend to take far too much and mix compounds like Anadrol, Trenbolone, Equibol and Nandrolone into their cycles.

It’s not my witch hunt. As I’m sure you are aware there is a tonne of balanced, educated information on You Tube, with various personalities. I think the Anabolic Doc would be quite eye opening for you. I challenge you to watch his content and not be deeply worried about long term PED usage;

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCp3EQJtIdcyCVNASVN4UaYw

Greg Doucette and More Plates, More Dates are excellent too. You say there’s no harm in what you are doing, but do you get advice from a doctor and have your blood work done regularly?

Using testosterone switches off your natural production of testosterone, so it goes without saying the more long term you do this, the more the risk your natural production won’t bounce back to their original levels. You take a step closer to needing TRT for life. But as well as that nugget, there are are raft of issues that can easily rear their head - insulin resistance to name one. Fancy being a diabetic?

[Wee Tommy]

Good nick? He’s up to his neck in bodybuilding culture! It’s nonsense that taking testosterone replacement therapy is normal for people who train in the UK in their 40’s. You will not get it prescribed by a doctor unless you have sub normal testosterone levels. Occasionally people will have low levels through illness. But usually it because you have either deliberately crashed your system prior to getting tested by a doctor or that you have a history of long term testosterone and steroid use and your body cannot produce normal levels naturally. The normal threshold is also set very low in the UK and a sub normal result is actually difficult to achieve. The incentive as to why you’d ever want to do this with normal levels is in the ballpark of batshit crazy. Who wants to have to inject themselves with testosterone twice a week for the rest of their lives if you don’t need to?

Your projecting your own opinion into this mate. If you don’t want to inject yourself that’s fine, loads and loads of people actually do. I’ve been involved in training since I was a kid. I know hundreds of gym goers, cross fitters, powelifters, bodybuilders and just folk who train and the vast majority use some form of PEDs. I used to own a gym and when I sold it the guy who took it over and built it up much bigger sells the steroids, he’s very wealthy from it and the volume he sells in the local area tells its own story. That county is no different from any other in the UK.

Most folk lie about it I will give you that so maybe, with your witch hunt type attitude towards it, people just don’t open up about it to you.

I’ve used testosterone on and off for years and if you dose correctly you can come on and off without much of a problem. Low dosage is the way. The people who have problems tend to take far too much and mix compounds like Anadrol, Trenbolone, Equibol and Nandrolone into their cycles.

It’s not my witch hunt. As I’m sure you are aware there is a tonne of balanced, educated information on You Tube, with various personalities. I think the Anabolic Doc would be quite eye opening for you. I challenge you to watch his content and not be deeply worried about long term PED usage;

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCp3EQJtIdcyCVNASVN4UaYw

Greg Doucette and More Plates, More Dates are excellent too. You say there’s no harm in what you are doing, but do you get advice from a doctor and have your blood work done regularly?

Using testosterone switches off your natural production of testosterone, so it goes without saying the more long term you do this, the more the risk your natural production won’t bounce back to their original levels. You take a step closer to needing TRT for life. But as well as that nugget, there are are raft of issues that can easily rear their head - insulin resistance to name one. Fancy being a diabetic?

I don’t think the anabolic doc issues a reliable source. I use a reputable endocrinologist. I cannot stand to listen to Ducette for more than 30 secs.

I understand the risks. There are a raft of benefits also if used wisely.

My point was that it’s not simply people “wanting to build muscle fast” who use testosterone.

Look at Dom now and look at him years ago. He’s built pretty much the same.

[polecateddy]

Your projecting your own opinion into this mate. If you don’t want to inject yourself that’s fine, loads and loads of people actually do. I’ve been involved in training since I was a kid. I know hundreds of gym goers, cross fitters, powelifters, bodybuilders and just folk who train and the vast majority use some form of PEDs. I used to own a gym and when I sold it the guy who took it over and built it up much bigger sells the steroids, he’s very wealthy from it and the volume he sells in the local area tells its own story. That county is no different from any other in the UK.

Most folk lie about it I will give you that so maybe, with your witch hunt type attitude towards it, people just don’t open up about it to you.

I’ve used testosterone on and off for years and if you dose correctly you can come on and off without much of a problem. Low dosage is the way. The people who have problems tend to take far too much and mix compounds like Anadrol, Trenbolone, Equibol and Nandrolone into their cycles.

It’s not my witch hunt. As I’m sure you are aware there is a tonne of balanced, educated information on You Tube, with various personalities. I think the Anabolic Doc would be quite eye opening for you. I challenge you to watch his content and not be deeply worried about long term PED usage;

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCp3EQJtIdcyCVNASVN4UaYw

Greg Doucette and More Plates, More Dates are excellent too. You say there’s no harm in what you are doing, but do you get advice from a doctor and have your blood work done regularly?

Using testosterone switches off your natural production of testosterone, so it goes without saying the more long term you do this, the more the risk your natural production won’t bounce back to their original levels. You take a step closer to needing TRT for life. But as well as that nugget, there are are raft of issues that can easily rear their head - insulin resistance to name one. Fancy being a diabetic?

I don’t think the anabolic doc issues a reliable source. I use a reputable endocrinologist. I cannot stand to listen to Ducette for more than 30 secs.

I understand the risks. There are a raft of benefits also if used wisely.

My point was that it’s not simply people “wanting to build muscle fast” who use testosterone.

Look at Dom now and look at him years ago. He’s built pretty much the same.

PEDs aimed at muscle building will probably be worth 20 pounds of lean muscle on average, plus all the associated strength gains. So a lot of sensible people who have done this often question whether that extra 20 pounds is worthy damaging your health for? So for Dom to look the same as years ago doesn’t mean much. PED gains maximise just the same as natural gains. It’s not an unlimited improvement.

[Wee Tommy]

It’s not my witch hunt. As I’m sure you are aware there is a tonne of balanced, educated information on You Tube, with various personalities. I think the Anabolic Doc would be quite eye opening for you. I challenge you to watch his content and not be deeply worried about long term PED usage;

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCp3EQJtIdcyCVNASVN4UaYw

Greg Doucette and More Plates, More Dates are excellent too. You say there’s no harm in what you are doing, but do you get advice from a doctor and have your blood work done regularly?

Using testosterone switches off your natural production of testosterone, so it goes without saying the more long term you do this, the more the risk your natural production won’t bounce back to their original levels. You take a step closer to needing TRT for life. But as well as that nugget, there are are raft of issues that can easily rear their head - insulin resistance to name one. Fancy being a diabetic?

I don’t think the anabolic doc issues a reliable source. I use a reputable endocrinologist. I cannot stand to listen to Ducette for more than 30 secs.

I understand the risks. There are a raft of benefits also if used wisely.

My point was that it’s not simply people “wanting to build muscle fast” who use testosterone.

Look at Dom now and look at him years ago. He’s built pretty much the same.

PEDs aimed at muscle building will probably be worth 20 pounds of lean muscle on average, plus all the associated strength gains. So a lot of sensible people who have done this often question whether that extra 20 pounds is worthy damaging your health for? So for Dom to look the same as years ago doesn’t mean much. PED gains maximise just the same as natural gains. It’s not an unlimited improvement.

I don’t really agree with much you’ve said mate, lot of generalisations and guesses, projection etc. Not eveyone trains to put on 20lbs of muscle and not everyone who uses test wants to bodybuild.

[polecateddy]

I don’t think the anabolic doc issues a reliable source. I use a reputable endocrinologist. I cannot stand to listen to Ducette for more than 30 secs.

I understand the risks. There are a raft of benefits also if used wisely.

My point was that it’s not simply people “wanting to build muscle fast” who use testosterone.

Look at Dom now and look at him years ago. He’s built pretty much the same.

PEDs aimed at muscle building will probably be worth 20 pounds of lean muscle on average, plus all the associated strength gains. So a lot of sensible people who have done this often question whether that extra 20 pounds is worthy damaging your health for? So for Dom to look the same as years ago doesn’t mean much. PED gains maximise just the same as natural gains. It’s not an unlimited improvement.

I don’t really agree with much you’ve said mate, lot of generalisations and guesses, projection etc. Not eveyone trains to put on 20lbs of muscle and not everyone who uses test wants to bodybuild.

A lot of those better YouTube guys, particularly Jeff Nippard, Doucette, More Plates, etc have a decent scientific basis for what they talk about and often clearly reference the scientific studies. Where do you get your information from? Why would you want to take underground testosterone that isn’t medically prescribed for non-bodybuilding reasons? Do you have actual genuinely low natural testosterone? Makes little sense to me.

[jimmystone]

How old are you, Tom? I'd be interested to revisit this when you are in your sixties and see if you are on lifelong TRT or not. Not saying you will be but you are more at risk than somebody who doesn't do what you do.

I've been concreting all morning with my dad who is nearly 70. He is still as strong as fornicate, big arms, thick hair, aggressive. Not as much as he was 20 years ago but he's doing well. That's from hard work, good genetics and eating plenty all his life. Surely that's better than jabbing yourself?

[Wee Tommy]

How old are you, Tom? I'd be interested to revisit this when you are in your sixties and see if you are on lifelong TRT or not. Not saying you will be but you are more at risk than somebody who doesn't do what you do.

I've been concreting all morning with my dad who is nearly 70. He is still as strong as fornicate, big arms, thick hair, aggressive. Not as much as he was 20 years ago but he's doing well. That's from hard work, good genetics and eating plenty all his life. Surely that's better than jabbing yourself?

I got off the tools about 15 off year ago mate. If I was still grafting at 40 never mind 70 then it’s all went disastrously wrong, regardless of hairline

[jimmystone]

How old are you, Tom? I'd be interested to revisit this when you are in your sixties and see if you are on lifelong TRT or not. Not saying you will be but you are more at risk than somebody who doesn't do what you do.

I've been concreting all morning with my dad who is nearly 70. He is still as strong as fornicate, big arms, thick hair, aggressive. Not as much as he was 20 years ago but he's doing well. That's from hard work, good genetics and eating plenty all his life. Surely that's better than jabbing yourself?

I got off the tools about 15 off year ago mate. If I was still grafting at 40 never mind 70 then it’s all went disastrously wrong, regardless of hairline

Fair one. No need to be snide, though, I wasn't being.

Work is just an equation in this context, whether on the tools or in the gym like you.

[Controversial]

I use a reputable endocrinologist. I understand the risks. There are a raft of benefits also if used wisely.

So an endocrinologist will prescribe it if you go private, even if you don't need it for health reasons?

[Wee Tommy]

How old are you, Tom? I'd be interested to revisit this when you are in your sixties and see if you are on lifelong TRT or not. Not saying you will be but you are more at risk than somebody who doesn't do what you do.

I've been concreting all morning with my dad who is nearly 70. He is still as strong as fornicate, big arms, thick hair, aggressive. Not as much as he was 20 years ago but he's doing well. That's from hard work, good genetics and eating plenty all his life. Surely that's better than jabbing yourself?

I got off the tools about 15 off year ago mate. If I was still grafting at 40 never mind 70 then it’s all went disastrously wrong, regardless of hairline

Fair one. No need to be snide, though, I wasn't being.

Work is just an equation in this context, whether on the tools or in the gym like you.

You weren’t being sincere either. I’m just being honest

[Wee Tommy]

I use a reputable endocrinologist. I understand the risks. There are a raft of benefits also if used wisely.

So an endocrinologist will prescribe it if you go private, even if you don't need it for health reasons?

Define health reasons?