December 1981: Muhammad Ali versus Marvin Hagler

[goose 5]

Can the much smaller Hagler defeat the shell of Ali ? 15 rounds.

[DrDuke]

Hagler would swarm that version of Ali in a one-sided fashion, probably beat him up enough for the stoppage.

[Nile4000]

The fight wouldn't happen. Hagler looks at the state of Ali, and in tears, declines.

[zuru]

The fight wouldn't happen. Hagler looks at the state of Ali, and in tears, declines.

Ditto

[Seamus]

Even a ringworn version of Ali would be waaaay too big and strong for 160 lb Hagler. Ali would tie Hagler up in the clinches, smother him and push him around the ring like a ragdoll, he'd hold and hit Marvelous Marvin, and the punches of a 236 lb Ali would make the Hitman's best shots feel like love taps. Probably over after Hagler goes down for the 3rd time, which would happen no later than the 2nd round.

[zuru]

Even a ringworn version of Ali would be waaaay too big and strong for 160 lb Hagler. Ali would tie Hagler up in the clinches, smother him and push him around the ring like a ragdoll, he'd hold and hit Marvelous Marvin, and the punches of a 236 lb Ali would make the Hitman's best shots feel like love taps. Probably over after Hagler goes down for the 3rd time, which would happen no later than the 2nd round.

Seamus
No offense at all ,but do you remember how Ali looked and moved then? Hagler was primo then,and Ive no doubt that he would be able to have his way with Ali then, and be in no danger of going down let alone losing.
I have to hope along with Nile, that Hagler's respect for Ali and his compassion would prevent this from taking place.

[Seamus]

He took Berbick's best shots and had a couple could rounds. There's a reason they don't allow Middleweights to fight Heavyweights.

[DrDuke]

He took Berbick's best shots and had a couple could rounds. There's a reason they don't allow Middleweights to fight Heavyweights.

Ali was too bad at that point. He simply couldn't be seen as a fighter. He was a crippled man, allowing him to fight was near criminal. He wouldn't make an advantage of that weight, like many other bad fighters didn't do. There were nearly 60 pounds between Dempsey and Willard. Even lightweights and welterweights like Pryor or Arguello would beat Ali at that point.

[Ambling Alp II]

Even a ringworn version of Ali would be waaaay too big and strong for 160 lb Hagler. Ali would tie Hagler up in the clinches, smother him and push him around the ring like a ragdoll, he'd hold and hit Marvelous Marvin, and the punches of a 236 lb Ali would make the Hitman's best shots feel like love taps. Probably over after Hagler goes down for the 3rd time, which would happen no later than the 2nd round.

Might be a reason why Hagler never had the guts to fight over 160.
Obviously Ali was nowhere near the fighter he had been in his prime, or in the early-mid 1970s. He was slow and didn't have a lot of energy. However, he was much better than he was against Holmes. Somehow the fight was about even for the first 6 or 7 rounds. He was able to put together little flurries here and there. Trevor Berbick has went 15 rounds against Holmes earlier in the year and held his own. He beat Greg Page about six months after this fight. you could make a serious argument that Berbick was the 2nd best heavyweight in the world at the time.
With Parkinsons, his age, the punishment that he had taken in his career, it really is surprising that Ali did as well as he did in that fight.

[zuru]

Even a ringworn version of Ali would be waaaay too big and strong for 160 lb Hagler. Ali would tie Hagler up in the clinches, smother him and push him around the ring like a ragdoll, he'd hold and hit Marvelous Marvin, and the punches of a 236 lb Ali would make the Hitman's best shots feel like love taps. Probably over after Hagler goes down for the 3rd time, which would happen no later than the 2nd round.

Might be a reason why Hagler never had the guts to fight over 160.

Alp
Was it a lack of guts that Monzon didn't fight above 160? Im pretty sure both he and Hagler were only concerned with being the best Middleweight of their time,nothing more.

[Ambling Alp II]

Maybe. Other middleweights like Greb, Tiger, and Robinson moved up and fought bigger guys. Both Hagler and Monzon's biggest name opponents were all guys who moved up to middleweight themselves.

Maybe it was the smart thing to do. It would entail taking a risk. They were professionals who had to do what made the sense financially. Given that they had some big money fights at middleweight, maybe what they did made the most sense financially. I wouldn't have rated them lower pound for pound had they moved up and lost to a great light heavyweight, though I'm sure some would have. However, if they would have pulled it off at light heavy, they would deserve to be rated higher.

[zuru]

Maybe. Other middleweights like Greb, Tiger, and Robinson moved up and fought bigger guys. Both Hagler and Monzon's biggest name opponents were all guys who moved up to middleweight themselves.

Maybe it was the smart thing to do. It would entail taking a risk. They were professionals who had to do what made the sense financially. Given that they had some big money fights at middleweight, maybe what they did made the most sense financially. I wouldn't have rated them lower pound for pound had they moved up and lost to a great light heavyweight, though I'm sure some would have. However, if they would have pulled it off at light heavy, they would deserve to be rated higher.

I understand and agree. But I think Hagler wasn't afraid ,simply didn't care. He easily made weight and was wanting to cement his legacy at middleweight.