Wilfred Benitez vs Roberto Duran: 40 Years Later

[elmersalsa]

I'm sure in your mind it is a "fact".
btw- The fight Duran won doesn't count. It turns out that Leonard's pet hamster Sparky was under the weather. Because of this Leonard couldn't concentrate on the fight, therefore it doesn't count.

Leonard got an ass whupping! That's a fact! Look at his face before and after the fight.

[elmersalsa]

I'm sure in your mind it is a "fact".
btw- The fight Duran won doesn't count. It turns out that Leonard's pet hamster Sparky was under the weather. Because of this Leonard couldn't concentrate on the fight, therefore it doesn't count.

Leonard got an ass whupping! That's a fact! Duran kicked his ass at his own weight class. I can't imagine a featherweight in history beating Duran that way.

Just look at Leonard's face before and after the fight. That's a fact you can't deny.

[elmersalsa]

But it was only the one of the most important fights of his career. Hard to imagine why people would think it should matter.

So many other good points made earlier:

"And we also got to mention that after Duran's loss to Leonard that a lot of his "closest friends" deserted him, big time. That takes a lot of confidence to a fighter."
Obviously. That's why he lost. It had nothing to do with him not being good enough.

These points are as important as other "facts" such as Duran was a lightweight fighting middleweights and Norton beating Ali all three times. You just can't argue with the "facts".

Duran was great enough to beat Leonard in the first fight, clearly. The second fight he fucked it right up by not training for his biggest fight. That’s the facts. All the rest is rubbish.

the first fight is what counts. Second fight, anything can happen. But, clearly, when BOTH were at their very best, Duran kicked his ass. Plain and simple!

[Wee Tommy]

But it was only the one of the most important fights of his career. Hard to imagine why people would think it should matter.

So many other good points made earlier:

"And we also got to mention that after Duran's loss to Leonard that a lot of his "closest friends" deserted him, big time. That takes a lot of confidence to a fighter."
Obviously. That's why he lost. It had nothing to do with him not being good enough.

These points are as important as other "facts" such as Duran was a lightweight fighting middleweights and Norton beating Ali all three times. You just can't argue with the "facts".

Duran was great enough to beat Leonard in the first fight, clearly. The second fight he fucked it right up by not training for his biggest fight. That’s the facts. All the rest is rubbish.

the first fight is what counts. Second fight, anything can happen. But, clearly, when BOTH were at their very best, Duran kicked his ass. Plain and simple!

Both fights count you lunatic.

Leonard went close the first time and dominated the second one. Your bizarre reasons for Durans demise don’t matter….he didn’t prepare for the fight properly and got outboxed and humiliated.

[Wee Tommy]

I'm sure in your mind it is a "fact".
btw- The fight Duran won doesn't count. It turns out that Leonard's pet hamster Sparky was under the weather. Because of this Leonard couldn't concentrate on the fight, therefore it doesn't count.

Poor sparky! If only the world knew we could have the fight expunged from the records.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Backdrop of Wilfredo/Roberto is Duran wanted the Benitez title, but was ducked. Benitez moves up to dethrone Palomino as Duran vacates LW to chase him, but Benitez is dethroned by Ray who now is forced to fight Duran by the WBC. The venue was problematic until Montreal stepped up, so Ray was well whooped and retired as Duran goes on an all time binge as only Duran could pull off.

Ray talked out of retirement gets the gift of a disinterested, poorly trained Duran whose bowels are loosened up chasing Leonard around. He dismisses Ray as a sissy to head for a magnificently heroic blast in his dressing room bathroom. Ray, humiliated in his victory, ducks the trilogy that would've put the final nail in the series. So Benitez and Duran kiss and make up that Duran loses, but then Duran KOs Davey Moore for his third division title, and so then Moore KOs Benitez to complete both triangle theories.

It ain't easy being Duran, a flawed great who was only knocked out of boxing after a horrific auto accident.

Here he is looking frail @70.



Who knew he has a 90 year old twin, boxing promoter Don Elbaum?

[NateJR]

Duran is undoubtedly a ATG, but he gets more excuses for lackluster performances than any fighter I've ever seen. It's never the case that his opponent was just the better man on the night, it's always a excuse... he was too small, he wasn't focused, he caught his mum sleeping with his best friend, insert next excuse here...

This will get some real excited. If Benitez was able to outbox Duran comfortably, he would have had no chance against Mayweather.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well, we don't know how he would have done against Mayweather. Otherwise I totally agree with you.

What we do know is that he lost to Leonard. He lost to Benitez. It happened. Like you say there is always an excuse. Other guys move up in weight. In fact, most guys that don't start at heavyweight eventually do. It's natural. We don't usually make excuses for them. If a guy moves up 2 weight classes at once something like that, you wouldn't expect him to be be adjust right off the bat. However, if a guy has been at at a weight class for a year or more, that is his weight class.

The excuses for Duran are unbelievable. He had a tummy ache. He partied too much. He wasn't focused. blah, blah blah. We almost never hear this crap with any other fighter. It's always poor Roberto.
Everybody had things outside the ring to deal with. A professional fighter has to do that.

The other problem is the guy who beat him gets shortchanged. Leonard fought a great fight in their second fight. but we are just supposed to ignore it because poor Roberto has crybaby excuses. Same thing with Benitez, who fought a great fight when he beat Duran.

[elmersalsa]

Duran is undoubtedly a ATG, but he gets more excuses for lackluster performances than any fighter I've ever seen. It's never the case that his opponent was just the better man on the night, it's always a excuse... he was too small, he wasn't focused, he caught his mum sleeping with his best friend, insert next excuse here...

This will get some real excited. If Benitez was able to outbox Duran comfortably, he would have had no chance against Mayweather.

Esteban De Jesus beat Duran fair and square. He is THE ONLY ONE that beat Duran in Duran's prime and weight class. I don't make excuses for that.

But, if anybody wants to dismiss that he lost because the other guy was heavier and in his weight range, then that's a problem. The truth was that at 154lbs and above, those weight classes were Duran's nightmare, and it showed. Plus, he was close of being in decline. But, here we go. They want to say that he was in his prime in his 30s. But when the great Muhammad Ali lost to Joe Frazier it was that he wasn't prime. Same excuses, just different strokes for different folks. You dig?

[elmersalsa]

Well, we don't know how he would have done against Mayweather. Otherwise I totally agree with you.

What we do know is that he lost to Leonard. He lost to Benitez. It happened. Like you say there is always an excuse. Other guys move up in weight. In fact, most guys that don't start at heavyweight eventually do. It's natural. We don't usually make excuses for them. If a guy moves up 2 weight classes at once something like that, you wouldn't expect him to be be adjust right off the bat. However, if a guy has been at at a weight class for a year or more, that is his weight class.

The excuses for Duran are unbelievable. He had a tummy ache. He partied too much. He wasn't focused. blah, blah blah. We almost never hear this crap with any other fighter. It's always poor Roberto.
Everybody had things outside the ring to deal with. A professional fighter has to do that.

The other problem is the guy who beat him gets shortchanged. Leonard fought a great fight in their second fight. but we are just supposed to ignore it because poor Roberto has crybaby excuses. Same thing with Benitez, who fought a great fight when he beat Duran.

It was because Duran deserves the benefit of the doubt. How can't he? The first fight in Montreal where he fought magnificently and won when BOTH WERE AT THEIR BEST, Duran was better.

That second fight had too many loopholes.

Excuses are for all fighters. Leonard loses to a Lightweight they say "he didn't fight his fight". So Duran ain't supposed to win anyway?

Sugar Ray loses to Terry Norris. Norris smacked him around for 12 rounds, but the excuses are, Sugar Ray wasn't prime and he was 35. But, Duran was 33 against Hearns and was not in his prime. But, Duran's loss to Hearns count, but Leonard's loss to Norris doesn't?

Muhammad Ali loses to Joe Frazier. Ali was not prime. He played too much. The exile hurt him, etc, etc, etc. Smokin' Joe won fair and square. He fought his heart out.

And so on, and so on.

Benitez beat Duran. Was the fight at 140lbs? NO. At 147? no. It was at 154lbs. That weight class and above never fit Roberto well. It fitted Benitez.

But, nobody wants to consider the weight. Just the result.

[Seamus]

And if anyone suggested Duran go back down in weight, we'd hear how that would be impossible because he outgrew the divisions. That's why all Duran's defeats are losses with an asterik after them.

[elmersalsa]

And if anyone suggested Duran go back down in weight, we'd hear how that would be impossible because he outgrew the divisions. That's why all Duran's defeats are losses with an asterik after them.

Same as Leonard's. Same as everybody's.

[Ambling Alp II]

And if anyone suggested Duran go back down in weight, we'd hear how that would be impossible because he outgrew the divisions. That's why all Duran's defeats are losses with an asterik after them.

Yep. There would always be an excuse. Excuses that you never hear with anyone else. 16 losses and we are supposed to believe that 15 of them don't count.

[Jaywheel]

He wouldn't listen to his father, you think he'll listen to us?

[elmersalsa]

And if anyone suggested Duran go back down in weight, we'd hear how that would be impossible because he outgrew the divisions. That's why all Duran's defeats are losses with an asterik after them.

Yep. There would always be an excuse. Excuses that you never hear with anyone else. 16 losses and we are supposed to believe that 15 of them don't count.

The same for Ali. The same for Leonard. Excuses exist for everyone.

[Ambling Alp II]

Not really. Most losses are just that losses. If a guy is really old or something that is different.
Having a tummy ache, supposedly always being a lightweight when you weigh a lot more than that, partying too much etc. is BS. You seldom hear that kind of nonsense with anyone else and when you do, someone uses call it out as BS. Like we are doing with all the crybaby excuses with Duran.

[elmersalsa]

Not really. Most losses are just that losses. If a guy is really old or something that is different.
Having a tummy ache, supposedly always being a lightweight when you weigh a lot more than that, partying too much etc. is BS. You seldom hear that kind of nonsense with anyone else and when you do, someone uses call it out as BS. Like we are doing with all the crybaby excuses with Duran.

And Ali's exile was not an excuse?
How about "I didn't fight my fight"?
And how about Ali's 3 losses to Kenny? Oh, I took him lightly.
How about this one? Hearns legs were rubbed before the fight with Marvelous.
Or Hearns came in at 145lbs instead of 147lbs against Sugar Ray?

See, everybody got excuses, Alp. Don't move the posts.

[Jaywheel]

no one defends these excuses on here like you do with your crushes.

[elmersalsa]

no one defends these excuses on here like you do with your crushes.

Ambling Alp does. I am not alone.

[Ambling Alp II]

No I don't. The only one that I ever use of the ones that you mentioned is the top one about Ali's exile. Obviously a guy can't be off for 3 and half years and come back and be the same.
Other people (including fighters themselves) might use the other ones, but I don't.
In general, most people don't usually buy into the lame excuses. You do (or come up with your own) when it suits your guy.

[elmersalsa]

No I don't. The only one that I ever use of the ones that you mentioned is the top one about Ali's exile. Obviously a guy can't be off for 3 and half years and come back and be the same.
Other people (including fighters themselves) might use the other ones, but I don't.
In general, most people don't usually buy into the lame excuses. You do (or come up with your own) when it suits your guy.

[banjo]

Is it true that Benitez rarely ever trained?

Astonishing career if true.

[elmersalsa]

Is it true that Benitez rarely ever trained?

Astonishing career if true.

Rumours say that he only train a week for Sugar Ray Leonard.

But, in this fight with Roberto Duran, he trained his ass off. He had a magnificent performance.

[Seamus]

I think he typically trained for 2 weeks before a bout.

[bjornborgbook]

Duran looked like he may have tanked this fight, there was not the typical level of passion and fury in his performance. Like No Mas, this fight has always bothered me. No Mas looked like a very clearcut tank job. Just watch Duran's focus and intensity in the ring before the first and second SRL fights... totally totally different. Duran was a ghost in No Mas. He had all the leverage too to tell SRL, I will take two optional defenses first then do the rematch in mid 1981. Duran looked like he was paid off to tank to the Madison Ave golden boy. Duran just couldnt seem to get fully inspired vs Benitez, very unDuran like performance.