Which glorified British amateur ended up being the biggest underachiever in the professional ring

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Bobby Wells - ABA champion and Olympic bronze medalist

Adrian Elliott who won the ABA title about four times.

Twice I think, 81 and 82...

[TheLeprechaun]

People will say Frankie Gavin but he was never really that good as a pro. His pillow fisted style just wasn't going to work out and he even struggled with Curtis Woodhouse. Split decision there which says it all. He had very little power and no discipline to make 135. He probably should have been at 130 really but there was no way he was going to have the discipline or mentality to get to that weight. If you look at Ricky Burns he clearly had less talent but was tougher and more disciplined and stayed at the right weight. I don't think Gavin was as good as he was hyped up to be. He stunk out the place landing pitter patter shots. It worked as an amateur but would always be found out over long distances in the pros with fighters who can take shots and take the fight to him. Anyone who came to have a fight and believed they could win gave him serious problems. Very overrated guy.

[margaret thatcher]

frankie 'fun time' gavin

places high in the ironic nickname rankings

[polecateddy]

Those ratios are quite significant. Often with 'natural bodybuilding' contests they will have these similar allowance for 6:1 testosterone levels, and it's becomes open season on PED abuse. I'm not sure if USADA also push 4:1 now too, which meant I think a lot of UFC fighters bodies melted overnight almost without their normal test - Belfort and others.

Yes, USADA is 4:1 too. Their ratios are the same as WADA's. You are right about UFC, some of those lads were bang at it, it was a free for all. Dropping back to 4:1 made a big difference. They were still up on (almost all) clean athletes though.

Is this suppliments legal or under the counter?

Hardly any UFC fighters or boxers have exemptions, so it’s all rule breaking stuff. You can’t legally get testosterone without a prescription from a doctor, and certainly not in the amounts these athletes want even with a prescription. As an aside another boxer for the list of good amateurs but disappointing pros - Adrian Dodson.

[tigermoth87]

Frankie Gavin had a joke of a career given his potential

[bennie]

Errol Christie
Nick Wilshire
Andy Straughn
Rod Douglas
Jimmy Batten
Dudley McKenzie
Kevin Taylor

[bennie]

There was a middleweight (I think) from London (I think) that tore a hole through people as an amateur, big big puncher.

But had 4-5 fights and disappeared

Val Golding?

[MightyWarrior]

Has anyone mentioned 1980s London welterweight Darren Dyer?

Big punching ABA & commonwealth champ, turned pro but lost an early one as his chin turned out to be brittle. Same gym and friends with Lloyd Honeyghan, but they fell out seriously and Dyer was arrested for attacking Honeyghan with a hammer..

Here he is stopping Ian John Lewis

[jimmystone]

Yes, USADA is 4:1 too. Their ratios are the same as WADA's. You are right about UFC, some of those lads were bang at it, it was a free for all. Dropping back to 4:1 made a big difference. They were still up on (almost all) clean athletes though.

Is this suppliments legal or under the counter?

Hardly any UFC fighters or boxers have exemptions, so it’s all rule breaking stuff. You can’t legally get testosterone without a prescription from a doctor, and certainly not in the amounts these athletes want even with a prescription. As an aside another boxer for the list of good amateurs but disappointing pros - Adrian Dodson.

Hello, this is me again, my number has been replaced by my name, thankfully.

You are right. When I say "allowed" I mean you won't fail the test. Not that you are doing nothing technically wrong. My main point is that at that level of sport the 4:1 ratio has become normalised. Anybody not doing that (e.g. Gavin) is therefore at a distinct disadvantage. It's actually a fairly level playing field, in theory, for those who do dose up to 4:1. Cheating beyond that involves microdosing and other bits and pieces. Getting it right costs money, discretion, and a tight team though.

[bennie]

Has anyone mentioned 1980s London welterweight Darren Dyer?

Big punching ABA & commonwealth champ, turned pro but lost an early one as his chin turned out to be brittle. Same gym and friends with Lloyd Honeyghan, but they fell out seriously and Dyer was arrested for attacking Honeyghan with a hammer..

Here he is stopping Ian John Lewis

Good one. Dyer won the ABA welterweight title in 1986 when he pulled out a brutal right uppercut to finish Mark Elliott in the dying seconds of their bout, after Elliott had boxed his ears off. It remains one of the best single punches I've ever seen. Dyer then won gold at the Commonwealth Games in Edinburgh, after which he turned pro with Mickey Duff. Dyer was there in Atlantic City in September 1986 when Lloyd Honeyghan destroyed Don Curry.

[polecateddy]

I don’t get Boxing News very much anymore, but I remember they were doing features on James Branch quite a bit. I just looked up his record and he seems inactive now since December 2019. Has he called it a day already at 7-0?

[mickey1975]

I don’t get Boxing News very much anymore, but I remember they were doing features on James Branch quite a bit. I just looked up his record and he seems inactive now since December 2019. Has he called it a day already at 7-0?

Was he Repton? Boxing News are heavily Repton biased. They're barking up the wrong tree. Down south, Rainham are streets ahead of most nowadays and Pinewood Star are quality.

[polecateddy]

I don’t get Boxing News very much anymore, but I remember they were doing features on James Branch quite a bit. I just looked up his record and he seems inactive now since December 2019. Has he called it a day already at 7-0?

Was he Repton? Boxing News are heavily Repton biased. They're barking up the wrong tree. Down south, Rainham are streets ahead of most nowadays and Pinewood Star are quality.

I think maybe there’s Repton in there. Although the main hook was his Dad - also James Branch possibly - was a pro fighter. Another one who was a promising amateur but from memory his chin didn’t hold up to the professional game. Father and son ABA Champions possibly.

I spotted Kelly Oliver was ABA light heavyweight champion 1992-1995. But as a pro he seemed to lack firepower to go with the skills.

[JamesPhilips]

Has anyone mentioned 1980s London welterweight Darren Dyer?

Big punching ABA & commonwealth champ, turned pro but lost an early one as his chin turned out to be brittle. Same gym and friends with Lloyd Honeyghan, but they fell out seriously and Dyer was arrested for attacking Honeyghan with a hammer..

Here he is stopping Ian John Lewis

I watched this just to see IJL get beaten up

[coghaugen11]

Errol Christie of course.

[coghaugen11]

Rod Douglas another though tragically (who throws a 13-fight novice in with Bomber Graham - who had just arguably beat McCallum for the world title - Mickey Duff of all people WTF!?)

[coghaugen11]

Maybe Brian Schumacher and John Beckles also though they turned pro late didn’t they?

[coghaugen11]

Denys Cronin was on the England team scoring left hook kayos in Eastern Europe.

[jimmystone]

Rod Douglas another though tragically (who throws a 13-fight novice in with Bomber Graham - who had just arguably beat McCallum for the world title - Mickey Duff of all people WTF!?)

Couldn't agree more. Did that fight make sense to anybody? bennie, what do you think?

[JamesPhilips]

Keith Inglis

[Crease]

You are right about UFC, some of those lads were bang at it, it was a free for all. Dropping back to 4:1 made a big difference. They were still up on (almost all) clean athletes though.

The list of banned substances is being expanded upon every year, which definitely curbs what an athlete can take. For example, their is a substance called "Meldonium" which was put on the banned list in January 2016... That substance is (apparently) excellent for weight loss, yet also maintaining muscle stamina... Sharapova had been using it since she turned professional... And Connor McGregor admitted using it the years before it was made illegal...

As the chemistry evolves and the substances become more and more sophisticated the number of banned substances becomes greater and greater - in that regard it's kind of like an arms race...

[Crease]

Hardly any UFC fighters or boxers have exemptions, so it’s all rule breaking stuff. You can’t legally get testosterone without a prescription from a doctor, and certainly not in the amounts these athletes want even with a prescription.

Aye, but even if you are prescribed testosterone, there are limits... Lamont Peterson was twice over the average when he was tested for his 2nd fight with Khan... And his defence was "well I've been taking it all the way through, and there was never any problems then"...

[jimmystone]

You are right about UFC, some of those lads were bang at it, it was a free for all. Dropping back to 4:1 made a big difference. They were still up on (almost all) clean athletes though.

The list of banned substances is being expanded upon every year, which definitely curbs what an athlete can take. For example, their is a substance called "Meldonium" which was put on the banned list in January 2016... That substance is (apparently) excellent for weight loss, yet also maintaining muscle stamina... Sharapova had been using it since she turned professional... And Connor McGregor admitted using it the years before it was made illegal...

As the chemistry evolves and the substances become more and more sophisticated the number of banned substances becomes greater and greater - in that regard it's kind of like an arms race...

That boxing is not a closed skill sport i.e. you are not just running, jumping, lifting, rowing, cycling, swimming will always be its saving grace. Even if I was dodgy I wouldn't recommend a fighter getting too wrapped up in it all. Get to the passable dose limit of testosterone and EPO and concentrate on training hard and mastering your skill set. Consider micro-dosing the same to train with higher levels but come down to a passable level again very quickly. There's no need for more than that for fighters.

[Controversial]

Hardly any UFC fighters or boxers have exemptions, so it’s all rule breaking stuff. You can’t legally get testosterone without a prescription from a doctor, and certainly not in the amounts these athletes want even with a prescription.

Aye, but even if you are prescribed testosterone, there are limits... Lamont Peterson was twice over the average when he was tested for his 2nd fight with Khan... And his defence was "well I've been taking it all the way through, and there was never any problems then"...

Shannon Briggs had high testosterone levels in 2017, he admitted taking stuff but said it was for asthma, I wonder how many fighters take it but it falls below the accepted levels

[polecateddy]

Hardly any UFC fighters or boxers have exemptions, so it’s all rule breaking stuff. You can’t legally get testosterone without a prescription from a doctor, and certainly not in the amounts these athletes want even with a prescription.

Aye, but even if you are prescribed testosterone, there are limits... Lamont Peterson was twice over the average when he was tested for his 2nd fight with Khan... And his defence was "well I've been taking it all the way through, and there was never any problems then"...

I think I recall Nigel Benn slipping up in a TV interview once, kind of eluding to just how many 'supplements' he was on in preparation for his fights. It sounded like he was getting dosed with all sorts, to the point where he sounded like it was all getting to be a nuisance.