Best white boxer of all time?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Aug 2006, 03:08

Tysonfan wrote:Harry Greb or Jack Dempsey? Not sure it close between those 2 for me. Any challengers.

To those competent in the area of boxing, the term "boxer" means a fighter who moves around a lot on his feet.

Jim Corbett, Frank Erne, Jack Root, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Johnny Kilbane, Johnny Dundee, Jack Britton, Benny Leonard, Mike Gibbons, Sammy Mandell, Tommy Loughran, Gene Tunney, Barney Ross, Billy Conn, Bob Pastor, Harry Jeffra, Maxie Rosenbloom, Billy Soose, Willie Pep, Billy Graham, Joey Archer, Jeff Chandler, etc etc etc.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 04 Aug 2006, 03:10

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:really no white fighter(or perhaps any fighter) looks better on film than a peak willie pep. he looked like he glided through air, the best footwork i have ever seen

Johnny Dundee was better.

JC · Post by JC » 04 Aug 2006, 06:49

Tysonfan wrote:will there ever be another white fighter?

Seasoned Veteran · Post by **Seasoned Veteran** » 04 Aug 2006, 06:51

Max Schmeling.

JC · Post by JC » 04 Aug 2006, 06:52

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Wales is in the British Empire is it not? Welsh/English same difference to me.

Rufus mate if you ever meet any Welsh people, particularly if the're boxers, I'd keep that opion to yourself

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 04 Aug 2006, 07:30

granberry wrote:
Tysonfan wrote:Harry Greb or Jack Dempsey? Not sure it close between those 2 for me. Any challengers.
To those competent in the area of boxing, the term "boxer" means a fighter who moves around a lot on his feet.

Jim Corbett, Frank Erne, Jack Root, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Johnny Kilbane, Johnny Dundee, Jack Britton, Benny Leonard, Mike Gibbons, Sammy Mandell, Tommy Loughran, Gene Tunney, Barney Ross, Billy Conn, Bob Pastor, Harry Jeffra, Maxie Rosenbloom, Billy Soose, Willie Pep, Billy Graham, Joey Archer, Jeff Chandler, etc etc etc.

Jeff CHandler? DO you mean "Joltin" Jeff Chandler from Philly? Great "boxer", but I don't think he was white. Thought maybe u simply used him as an example of a "boxer", but then I noticed everybody else u listed was white.

Also, not all "boxers" moved around a lot on thier feet. Jimmy Young was a master, but really didn't use an excessive amount of foot movement.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 04 Aug 2006, 07:35

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Willie Pep was JEWISH...he wasn't white. So he falls out of the "best white fighter" category.

My personal opinion, the best white fighter, in any weight class, was probably Jimmy Wylde, of England, who was one of the greatest KO artists of all time. When he was a young kid in his native Wales, he used to fight exhibitions with grown men twice his size and knocked them all out.

One time Wylde was under major testing, to see where he got his great power from, and to the surprise of the 'experts' it wasn't by brute strength, but was by Wylde's percision and timing, as well as the quickness and accuracy of his punches.

what other light skinned race would you not consider white? better yet, what races are considered white? Only northern Europeans?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 04 Aug 2006, 07:59

Obviously Tysonfan needs to read some books...
How about Benny Leonard, Jim Driscoll, Freddie Welsh etc etc etc?...eh?.... as pound for pound great white boxers go Dempsey probably doesnt make the top 50.... :x

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 04 Aug 2006, 08:19

What colour does Jewish look like?

British Empire doesn't mean English. A lot of people would be very offended by that statement. Do you consider Scots English?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 04 Aug 2006, 08:19

It's all about social definitions. Race is constructed by the society applying the label. Wasn't Burley half Irish? Which camp does he fall in to?

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 04 Aug 2006, 08:49

Terence wrote:He probably should have said caucasian.

indeed.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 04 Aug 2006, 09:41

Terence wrote: I'm surprised no one has brought up Gerry Quarry, isn't he tied with Vitali for top rank?

I'm waiting for someone to suggest JD Chapman... - but maybe Irish is still running a background check on him concerning his ancestry.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 04 Aug 2006, 10:49

Decagon wrote:
Lenny Albert wrote:What colour does Jewish look like?

British Empire doesn't mean English. A lot of people would be very offended by that statement. Do you consider Scots English?
I think we should send him to Belfast, so he can tell everyone there that they're English since Northern Ireland is in the British Empire. He wouldn't last 15 minutes.

Depends to what part of town he goes.... some would carry him on their shoulders...

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 04 Aug 2006, 10:59

Fact is the majority of fighters before WW2 were Jewish, but I've never heard that being Jewish means your not white... perhaps Tysonfan is under the impression that Tyson himself was white... like I said earlier, do us all a favor and read more books fan...

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 04 Aug 2006, 11:50

What about Stanley Ketchell and Rocky Marciano?

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 04 Aug 2006, 12:02

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Willie Pep was JEWISH...he wasn't white. So he falls out of the "best white fighter" category.

I thought this issue was pretty much settled around the year 1945.

Curiously are Sammy Davis jr., Zab Judah, and Anthony Thompson black even though they are Jewish? I am just kidding.

Still Benny Leonard is the best IMO still

No mentions of Tony Canzoneri, Gene Tunney, or Barney Ross yet. I wouldnt consider them the greatest, or even top 5, but merit a mention.

Baby Face Finster · Post by **Baby Face Finster** » 04 Aug 2006, 12:02

I just want to stick out Georges Carpentier's name as no one mentioned him. The only man to fight in all the weight divisions of his time and be successful at it.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 04 Aug 2006, 12:56

..i'd say willie pep leads the list of the excellent fighters here...b ut i'm surprised no one has mentioned MICKEY WALKER!!! surely a strong case can me made for him....

Thunder and Lightning · Post by **Thunder and Lightning** » 04 Aug 2006, 13:48

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Marciano i thought he would be the prime target huh each day you learn something new.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 05 Aug 2006, 18:14

silkov wrote:Obviously Tysonfan needs to read some books...
How about Benny Leonard, Jim Driscoll, Freddie Welsh etc etc etc?...eh?.... as pound for pound great white boxers go Dempsey probably doesnt make the top 50.... :x

Welsh was NOT a boxer.

Welsh was an infighter.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 05 Aug 2006, 18:24

The Great John L wrote:
granberry wrote:
Tysonfan wrote:Harry Greb or Jack Dempsey? Not sure it close between those 2 for me. Any challengers.
To those competent in the area of boxing, the term "boxer" means a fighter who moves around a lot on his feet.

Jim Corbett, Frank Erne, Jack Root, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Johnny Kilbane, Johnny Dundee, Jack Britton, Benny Leonard, Mike Gibbons, Sammy Mandell, Tommy Loughran, Gene Tunney, Barney Ross, Billy Conn, Bob Pastor, Harry Jeffra, Maxie Rosenbloom, Billy Soose, Willie Pep, Billy Graham, Joey Archer, Jeff Chandler, etc etc etc.
Jeff CHandler? DO you mean "Joltin" Jeff Chandler from Philly? Great "boxer", but I don't think he was white. Thought maybe u simply used him as an example of a "boxer", but then I noticed everybody else u listed was white.

----INTERESTING, huh?----

Also, not all "boxers" moved around a lot on thier feet. Jimmy Young was a master, but really didn't use an excessive amount of foot movement.

Jimmy Young made a total ass of Ali with his ability to change angles while hardly moving on his feet, while Ali gave a demonstration in that fight of what a waste of motion and energy his footwork was.

All the flaws and limitations in Ali's style were exposed by Young for 15 excruciating rounds for poor Ali.

Watch the 9th round for a demonstration by Ali of a foolish waste of foot movement and energy to acommplish nothing while Young stands in one spot (the center of the ring) for most of the round and gives Ali a boxing lesson.

.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 05 Aug 2006, 21:13

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Willie Pep was JEWISH...he wasn't white. So he falls out of the "best white fighter" category.

My personal opinion, the best white fighter, in any weight class, was probably Jimmy Wylde, of England, who was one of the greatest KO artists of all time. When he was a young kid in his native Wales, he used to fight exhibitions with grown men twice his size and knocked them all out.

One time Wylde was under major testing, to see where he got his great power from, and to the surprise of the 'experts' it wasn't by brute strength, but was by Wylde's percision and timing, as well as the quickness and accuracy of his punches.

Willie Pep was NOT JEWISH, he was Italian-American.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 05 Aug 2006, 22:45

Yeah, Jimmy McLarnin was Jewish, Benny Leonard was Irish, Rocky Graziano was Polish, Tony Zale was Italian, and Salvadar Sanchez was Chinese.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Aug 2006, 06:50

granberry wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
granberry wrote: To those competent in the area of boxing, the term "boxer" means a fighter who moves around a lot on his feet.

Jim Corbett, Frank Erne, Jack Root, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Johnny Kilbane, Johnny Dundee, Jack Britton, Benny Leonard, Mike Gibbons, Sammy Mandell, Tommy Loughran, Gene Tunney, Barney Ross, Billy Conn, Bob Pastor, Harry Jeffra, Maxie Rosenbloom, Billy Soose, Willie Pep, Billy Graham, Joey Archer, Jeff Chandler, etc etc etc.
Jeff CHandler? DO you mean "Joltin" Jeff Chandler from Philly? Great "boxer", but I don't think he was white. Thought maybe u simply used him as an example of a "boxer", but then I noticed everybody else u listed was white.

----INTERESTING, huh?----

Also, not all "boxers" moved around a lot on thier feet. Jimmy Young was a master, but really didn't use an excessive amount of foot movement.
Jimmy Young made a total ass of Ali with his ability to change angles while hardly moving on his feet, while Ali gave a demonstration in that fight of what a waste of motion and energy his footwork was.

All the flaws and limitations in Ali's style were exposed by Young for 15 excruciating rounds for poor Ali.

Watch the 9th round for a demonstration by Ali of a foolish waste of foot movement and energy to acommplish nothing while Young stands in one spot (the center of the ring) for most of the round and gives Ali a boxing lesson.

.

Terap strikes again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Aug 2006, 06:51

granberry wrote:Yeah, Jimmy McLarnin was Jewish, Benny Leonard was Irish, Rocky Graziano was Polish, Tony Zale was Italian, and Salvadar Sanchez was Chinese.

Sanchez was Mexican actually... :x :x :x

Best white boxer of all time?

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