Jackson - Duran
Hey, lets face it surely its easier to believe the need a toilet theory to Duran actually being afraid of Leonard... people who say that Duran was scared of being koed etc obviously havent seen the fight... Leonard was hardly beating Duran up, just taunting a fighter who looked to be in visible discomfort... Leonard doesnt exactly come out of this fight smelling of roses imo... 
I think Duran quit for a number of reasons. Leonard's taunting was a part of it. There was also the fact that Duran needed the toilet. I think that Duran also underestimated Leonard. Ray proved in the first installment that he was more than boxing's pin-up boy. Duran believed his own hype and obviously wasn't prepared. Ray would have won the second fight no matter how he fought.
IMO Duran knew he couldn't win. He didn't want to be made a fool of and he didn't want to let it all hang out in public (so to speak). I really think he expected to be just granted a rematch.
It's always the winners who write history though. I think these guys are a 50-50 match up prime for prime.
IMO Duran knew he couldn't win. He didn't want to be made a fool of and he didn't want to let it all hang out in public (so to speak). I really think he expected to be just granted a rematch.
It's always the winners who write history though. I think these guys are a 50-50 match up prime for prime.
My thoughts on Duran & Leonard from a bygone thread almost lost in the mists of time.
When I had the pleasure of speaking to Duran a few years ago he said regarding the Leonard rematch that he lost too much weight in too short a time and had terrible stomach cramps in the fight.As for the first Duran - Leonard fight. I to was too young to remember it the first time around but of course have it on tape. Duran that night was as much a force of nature than a fighter that night. People say Leonard chose the wrong tactics that night which in part may be true but I think it was more of a case of Duran forcing Leonard to fight his fight.
I think it was in the second round Duran badly hurt Leonard with a left hook(?). If Leonard had been able to dance around that night surely that would have been his wake-up call? Duran was in Leonards face all night, beating him to the jab, slipping Leonards shots like no other fighter ever did and punishing Leonard to the body and head.
The infamous 'no mas' rematch was lost for Duran before the fight even began due to Durans crazy methods of making the weight. From what I have heard Duran was something like 200lbs when he went into training camp for the rematch due to heavy partying. He didn't have enough time to get down to 147lbs by just training hard.
For about two days before the weigh-in he ate and drank almost nothing apart from laxatives to make the weight. After the weigh-in the first thing he did was eat about TWO large steak and potatoe meals straight after each other resting only to drink pints of fruit juice. He then finished that off with eating some more fruit.
By the time fight time came the mixture of laxatives and binge eating had given the great Duran the mpther of all stomach aches. He tried his best early on but the stomach cramps were too much to content with along with Leonards shots to body and head. I believe he quit that night because I believe he felt another hard shot to the body and he would not have been responsible for the behavour of his bowels
I notice in the run up to the 2nd fight how grim Duran looks when he gets in the ring... and not grim in a sparky way like in the 1st bout but grim as in he already didnt feel well...KOJOE90 wrote:My thoughts on Duran & Leonard from a bygone thread almost lost in the mists of time.
When I had the pleasure of speaking to Duran a few years ago he said regarding the Leonard rematch that he lost too much weight in too short a time and had terrible stomach cramps in the fight.As for the first Duran - Leonard fight. I to was too young to remember it the first time around but of course have it on tape. Duran that night was as much a force of nature than a fighter that night. People say Leonard chose the wrong tactics that night which in part may be true but I think it was more of a case of Duran forcing Leonard to fight his fight.
I think it was in the second round Duran badly hurt Leonard with a left hook(?). If Leonard had been able to dance around that night surely that would have been his wake-up call? Duran was in Leonards face all night, beating him to the jab, slipping Leonards shots like no other fighter ever did and punishing Leonard to the body and head.
The infamous 'no mas' rematch was lost for Duran before the fight even began due to Durans crazy methods of making the weight. From what I have heard Duran was something like 200lbs when he went into training camp for the rematch due to heavy partying. He didn't have enough time to get down to 147lbs by just training hard.
For about two days before the weigh-in he ate and drank almost nothing apart from laxatives to make the weight. After the weigh-in the first thing he did was eat about TWO large steak and potatoe meals straight after each other resting only to drink pints of fruit juice. He then finished that off with eating some more fruit.
By the time fight time came the mixture of laxatives and binge eating had given the great Duran the mpther of all stomach aches. He tried his best early on but the stomach cramps were too much to content with along with Leonards shots to body and head. I believe he quit that night because I believe he felt another hard shot to the body and he would not have been responsible for the behavour of his bowels
Leonards cleverist move against Duran was getting a rematch in 5 months...
Yes that was a clever move by Team Leonard as they knew full well after big victorys duran liked to party hard and would balloon up in weight.silkov wrote:Leonards cleverist move against Duran was getting a rematch in 5 months...
But Duran also has to take responsability for his own lifestyle and 'lack of professionalism' with regards to his weight and training habits.
re
The "No Mas" fight was pretty much just as Arcel stated...Duran just quit! He didn't quit because he was taking a beating, he quit because he could not do a single thing with Leonard...could not hit him, could not intimidate him, could not do much of anything and that was a big turning point in his career. Like the Douglas-Tyson bout, Leonard-Duran showed that Duran was not the same fighter at a higher weight and as a result the naturally heavier fighter had no reason to be intimidated by Duran, which was one of his big assets at lightweight. No in the second bout with Leonard, Duran flat out quit.
As far as Duran not being the kind of man that would like to admit to having bowel issues…that’s bullshit, Duran always was a very proud man who would have much rather had a very good reason for stopping a fight instead of just quitting like he did…the quitting certainly would harm a fighters rep and legacy more so than an understandable stomach ailment and if it really had been due to his bowels Duran would still be stating the reason, but being that he actually had not reason, other than being embarrassed by Leonard he has kept quite about the issue. Does that change anything that Duran accomplished before and after…not at all, but it clearly demonstrated that Duran was not the “cyborg-like machine” that many felt he was.
>>>aside from power Barkley was a much better all round fighter than Jackson and had a far better chin than Jackson...<<<
To that I would say watch a lot more of his fights! Barkley was as crude as it got and his big claim to fame was that he had Hearns number, but that did not make him an elite fighter, which he was not. He was the quintessential crude slugger…little skill who won his bouts with brawn and about the only thing he had better than Jackson was his chin, which that wasn’t the greatest either. Jackson was very similar to Nigel Benn in terms of skill, but he probably hit a little harder than Benn. Duran was successful against Barkley because he was able to use his skill, plus he could see one of Barkley’s shots coming with relative ease, but Barkley was still able to land so very telling shots in a bout that was very, very close…certainly not a runaway win for Duran.
Jackson’s punches were thrown with finesse, sometimes no more than four, or five inches which was extremely difficult to try to defend against…as McCallum and nearly 50 other opponents found out first hand. The way that a fighter beat Jackson was to get him first. He was not the kind of fighter that people wanted to try to win a point decision because he simply hit too damn hard and if you did not take him out pretty early then he was more than likely going to get you…all it took was one shot!
>>>Duran loved fighting slowish sluggers like Jackson and I think he would have dismantled Julian, who had basically no defence, and win either by points or even ko.<<<
From that statement it sounds to me like all you have seen of Jackson is his post-McClellan bouts. There was nothing sluggish about the Jackson of the 80s and early 90s…he was one of the most explosive fighters of his era…if not the most explosive and even with a bad eye he did have a solid defense! It wasn’t the best defense in the world, but it was a defense that allowed him to win what, 47 of 48 bouts with around 44 of those by knockout. and it wasn’t just a load of patsies that he beat. Jackson was not a slowish slugger…he threw very precisely guided punches which were damn near text-book shots…there was nothing that I can recall that was crude about Jackson, but I would be interested in hearing about some instances that show him as a slowish slugger…aside from when he was well past it, which was essentially anything post McClellan II!
>>>lots, and in a toe to toe war Dyran with his extra skills and far better chin, would come out on top....<<<
A toe-to-toe war and Duran goes out very early! He simply did not have the punch to go toe-to-toe with the bigger and very much harder hitter. Duran’s only chance would be, as I said, to fight the perfect fight without any mistakes and with that he might score a late stoppage, or points win, but anything less and he is put to sleep by one of the heaviest-handed fighters to ever step in the ring! It’s pretty obvious how Jackson handled the likes of Norris and Graham, both of whom were much better boxers than Duran at middleweight and Norris hit a lot harder than Duran, Graham was just very skilled…Jackson waited and one punch ended the fights! No Duran simply did not have the strength or power to overwhelm Jackson, which is pretty much what a fighter had to do to beat him when he was in, or near his prime!
theone---Again…you make some very solid statements about the topic based on actual issues of the fighters and not just on the assumption that you think Jackson would win…just because I think so!
As far as Duran not being the kind of man that would like to admit to having bowel issues…that’s bullshit, Duran always was a very proud man who would have much rather had a very good reason for stopping a fight instead of just quitting like he did…the quitting certainly would harm a fighters rep and legacy more so than an understandable stomach ailment and if it really had been due to his bowels Duran would still be stating the reason, but being that he actually had not reason, other than being embarrassed by Leonard he has kept quite about the issue. Does that change anything that Duran accomplished before and after…not at all, but it clearly demonstrated that Duran was not the “cyborg-like machine” that many felt he was.
>>>aside from power Barkley was a much better all round fighter than Jackson and had a far better chin than Jackson...<<<
To that I would say watch a lot more of his fights! Barkley was as crude as it got and his big claim to fame was that he had Hearns number, but that did not make him an elite fighter, which he was not. He was the quintessential crude slugger…little skill who won his bouts with brawn and about the only thing he had better than Jackson was his chin, which that wasn’t the greatest either. Jackson was very similar to Nigel Benn in terms of skill, but he probably hit a little harder than Benn. Duran was successful against Barkley because he was able to use his skill, plus he could see one of Barkley’s shots coming with relative ease, but Barkley was still able to land so very telling shots in a bout that was very, very close…certainly not a runaway win for Duran.
Jackson’s punches were thrown with finesse, sometimes no more than four, or five inches which was extremely difficult to try to defend against…as McCallum and nearly 50 other opponents found out first hand. The way that a fighter beat Jackson was to get him first. He was not the kind of fighter that people wanted to try to win a point decision because he simply hit too damn hard and if you did not take him out pretty early then he was more than likely going to get you…all it took was one shot!
>>>Duran loved fighting slowish sluggers like Jackson and I think he would have dismantled Julian, who had basically no defence, and win either by points or even ko.<<<
From that statement it sounds to me like all you have seen of Jackson is his post-McClellan bouts. There was nothing sluggish about the Jackson of the 80s and early 90s…he was one of the most explosive fighters of his era…if not the most explosive and even with a bad eye he did have a solid defense! It wasn’t the best defense in the world, but it was a defense that allowed him to win what, 47 of 48 bouts with around 44 of those by knockout. and it wasn’t just a load of patsies that he beat. Jackson was not a slowish slugger…he threw very precisely guided punches which were damn near text-book shots…there was nothing that I can recall that was crude about Jackson, but I would be interested in hearing about some instances that show him as a slowish slugger…aside from when he was well past it, which was essentially anything post McClellan II!
>>>lots, and in a toe to toe war Dyran with his extra skills and far better chin, would come out on top....<<<
A toe-to-toe war and Duran goes out very early! He simply did not have the punch to go toe-to-toe with the bigger and very much harder hitter. Duran’s only chance would be, as I said, to fight the perfect fight without any mistakes and with that he might score a late stoppage, or points win, but anything less and he is put to sleep by one of the heaviest-handed fighters to ever step in the ring! It’s pretty obvious how Jackson handled the likes of Norris and Graham, both of whom were much better boxers than Duran at middleweight and Norris hit a lot harder than Duran, Graham was just very skilled…Jackson waited and one punch ended the fights! No Duran simply did not have the strength or power to overwhelm Jackson, which is pretty much what a fighter had to do to beat him when he was in, or near his prime!
theone---Again…you make some very solid statements about the topic based on actual issues of the fighters and not just on the assumption that you think Jackson would win…just because I think so!
Re: re
I beg to differ I'm afraid, do you honestly think that Duran pulled out of the Leonard fight because he couldnt take Sugar Ray rolling a bolo and pulling faces at him?... Duran has said many times that he pulled out because of stomach cramps and his problems making the weight are well documented so its hardly a stretch of the imagination to guess what really made Duran quit... and that was the prospect of losing control of his bowels during the fight... aside from that if Duran had bowel spasams during the fight this is not only 'inconvenient' but extremely painful, so to pull out of the fight like he did is completely understandable...barry wrote:The "No Mas" fight was pretty much just as Arcel stated...Duran just quit! He didn't quit because he was taking a beating, he quit because he could not do a single thing with Leonard...could not hit him, could not intimidate him, could not do much of anything and that was a big turning point in his career. Like the Douglas-Tyson bout, Leonard-Duran showed that Duran was not the same fighter at a higher weight and as a result the naturally heavier fighter had no reason to be intimidated by Duran, which was one of his big assets at lightweight. No in the second bout with Leonard, Duran flat out quit.
As far as Duran not being the kind of man that would like to admit to having bowel issues…that’s bullshit, Duran always was a very proud man who would have much rather had a very good reason for stopping a fight instead of just quitting like he did…the quitting certainly would harm a fighters rep and legacy more so than an understandable stomach ailment and if it really had been due to his bowels Duran would still be stating the reason, but being that he actually had not reason, other than being embarrassed by Leonard he has kept quite about the issue. Does that change anything that Duran accomplished before and after…not at all, but it clearly demonstrated that Duran was not the “cyborg-like machine” that many felt he was.
>>>aside from power Barkley was a much better all round fighter than Jackson and had a far better chin than Jackson...<<<
To that I would say watch a lot more of his fights! Barkley was as crude as it got and his big claim to fame was that he had Hearns number, but that did not make him an elite fighter, which he was not. He was the quintessential crude slugger…little skill who won his bouts with brawn and about the only thing he had better than Jackson was his chin, which that wasn’t the greatest either. Jackson was very similar to Nigel Benn in terms of skill, but he probably hit a little harder than Benn. Duran was successful against Barkley because he was able to use his skill, plus he could see one of Barkley’s shots coming with relative ease, but Barkley was still able to land so very telling shots in a bout that was very, very close…certainly not a runaway win for Duran.
Jackson’s punches were thrown with finesse, sometimes no more than four, or five inches which was extremely difficult to try to defend against…as McCallum and nearly 50 other opponents found out first hand. The way that a fighter beat Jackson was to get him first. He was not the kind of fighter that people wanted to try to win a point decision because he simply hit too damn hard and if you did not take him out pretty early then he was more than likely going to get you…all it took was one shot!
>>>Duran loved fighting slowish sluggers like Jackson and I think he would have dismantled Julian, who had basically no defence, and win either by points or even ko.<<<
From that statement it sounds to me like all you have seen of Jackson is his post-McClellan bouts. There was nothing sluggish about the Jackson of the 80s and early 90s…he was one of the most explosive fighters of his era…if not the most explosive and even with a bad eye he did have a solid defense! It wasn’t the best defense in the world, but it was a defense that allowed him to win what, 47 of 48 bouts with around 44 of those by knockout. and it wasn’t just a load of patsies that he beat. Jackson was not a slowish slugger…he threw very precisely guided punches which were damn near text-book shots…there was nothing that I can recall that was crude about Jackson, but I would be interested in hearing about some instances that show him as a slowish slugger…aside from when he was well past it, which was essentially anything post McClellan II!
>>>lots, and in a toe to toe war Dyran with his extra skills and far better chin, would come out on top....<<<
A toe-to-toe war and Duran goes out very early! He simply did not have the punch to go toe-to-toe with the bigger and very much harder hitter. Duran’s only chance would be, as I said, to fight the perfect fight without any mistakes and with that he might score a late stoppage, or points win, but anything less and he is put to sleep by one of the heaviest-handed fighters to ever step in the ring! It’s pretty obvious how Jackson handled the likes of Norris and Graham, both of whom were much better boxers than Duran at middleweight and Norris hit a lot harder than Duran, Graham was just very skilled…Jackson waited and one punch ended the fights! No Duran simply did not have the strength or power to overwhelm Jackson, which is pretty much what a fighter had to do to beat him when he was in, or near his prime!
theone---Again…you make some very solid statements about the topic based on actual issues of the fighters and not just on the assumption that you think Jackson would win…just because I think so!
As for Duran vs Jackson... we'll have to agree to disagree again, but I think you'd be favouring Barkley over Duran if Roberto had not actually beaten him... bottom line is Duran would be too clever and tough for Jackson... the only man to ever really ko Duran was Hearns who was far faster than Jackson... Jackson was no Hearns.... aside from the Hearns fight Roberto always showed a iron chin and while I'm sure he would feel Jacksons power at some points Duran would be too tough and clever to be koed by Julian and would put some hurt onto Jackson too... Duran on points.... too strong, too clever, too good for Julian...
Meow!!...theone wrote:I think all of Durans tummy troubles came from the vicious body shots Leonard was landing on him.
Obviously they didnt help, but the problem was there when Duran entered the ring...
Just to add a little to what I said earlier, I think Duran could do what a lot of people thought impossible in the latter stages of his career... I mean how many people backed him against Barkley?.... as I said earlier if Duran hadnt fought and beaten Barkley we'd be arguing over that result probably... even Durans showing against Hagler was a shock for most people who thought he'd be lucky to last 5 rounds... but this was a peak Hagler and Duran not only took it 15 but made it a competitive fight too... so this is why I see him handling Jackson... Duran was in a different sphere to Jackson as a fighter...
Last edited by silkov on 05 Aug 2006, 09:51, edited 1 time in total.
re
Duran was embarrassed by Leonard...he wasn't hurt by the punches...just completely frustrated to no end and he realized that he had virtually no chance and could not win the fight and he just quit. Excuses for such a brilliant warrior are understandable, but I don't buy the bowels excuse. It's been a long time since I watched the fight, but I cannot really recall Duran showing any signs that he may be suffering any kind of discomfort, other than the discomfort of not being able to land a punch on Leonard.
Actually, if Duran and Barkley had not fought then I would probably favor Duran in that bout simply because Barkley is "caveman-like" in his style and although he could punch hard, he didn’t have the kind of punch to just end a fight against a fighter with a very solid chin…whereas Jackson, it did not matter how good a chin was, Jackson could dent it.
Actually, if Duran and Barkley had not fought then I would probably favor Duran in that bout simply because Barkley is "caveman-like" in his style and although he could punch hard, he didn’t have the kind of punch to just end a fight against a fighter with a very solid chin…whereas Jackson, it did not matter how good a chin was, Jackson could dent it.
Re: re
I'm not doubting Jacksons power but he never fought anyone as good as Duran... Duran would see the punches coming against Jackson, Julian didnt have the speed or height of Hearns, I'm not saying Jackson would have no chance against Duran, but I lean towards Roberto... Jackson didnt have that great a chin himself and was vulnerble to picking up eye damage in fights, if Roberto weathered the early storm I see him breaking down Jackson and taking control later on... not every one can be knocked out and I think Julian would find Durans chin an equal to his power in this fight...barry wrote:Duran was embarrassed by Leonard...he wasn't hurt by the punches...just completely frustrated to no end and he realized that he had virtually no chance and could not win the fight and he just quit. Excuses for such a brilliant warrior are understandable, but I don't buy the bowels excuse. It's been a long time since I watched the fight, but I cannot really recall Duran showing any signs that he may be suffering any kind of discomfort, other than the discomfort of not being able to land a punch on Leonard.
Actually, if Duran and Barkley had not fought then I would probably favor Duran in that bout simply because Barkley is "caveman-like" in his style and although he could punch hard, he didn’t have the kind of punch to just end a fight against a fighter with a very solid chin…whereas Jackson, it did not matter how good a chin was, Jackson could dent it.
Re: re
If you watch the 2nd Leonard fight it seems clear that theres something wrong with Duran... he is extremely sluggish, hardly moving and a completely different boxer to the one in the first fight... the reason Leonard started all the taunting and clowning is that he must have realised that there was something up with Roberto... I dont see why people cant accept the wobbly bowels explanation when its actually the most logical answer to this painful puzzle!.... :xbarry wrote:Duran was embarrassed by Leonard...he wasn't hurt by the punches...just completely frustrated to no end and he realized that he had virtually no chance and could not win the fight and he just quit. Excuses for such a brilliant warrior are understandable, but I don't buy the bowels excuse. It's been a long time since I watched the fight, but I cannot really recall Duran showing any signs that he may be suffering any kind of discomfort, other than the discomfort of not being able to land a punch on Leonard.
Actually, if Duran and Barkley had not fought then I would probably favor Duran in that bout simply because Barkley is "caveman-like" in his style and although he could punch hard, he didn’t have the kind of punch to just end a fight against a fighter with a very solid chin…whereas Jackson, it did not matter how good a chin was, Jackson could dent it.
8)barry I don't doubt Jackson had the bomb, I just don't think he had the technology to deliver it perfectly to the intended target in this particular case. There are a few examples of that in his career where that was the case...no? M&M Taylor Phillips Jones....but come to think of it he never lost by decision correct? I'm now going on memory alone....did he only lose by KO?
I apologize for the error regarding Randy Gordon, memory isn't always 20-20. However, I'll stand by the comments of Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown, both of whom were devastated by Duran's actions, and made no other excuse except to say that Duran just quit. Actually Arcel added that it was Leonard's showboating and taunting that Duran couldn't deal with that made him quit. As for what Duran has said regarding what happened in the Superdome that night, he's been very inconsistent in his explanations over the years, he's claimed to have had cramps, and he's denied having cramps, he claimed he and his family were the victims of death threats, than denied the allegations, he's admitted to taking diuretics, than denied that he took them, he's also claimed he quit because Leonard was just acting like a clown in the ring. There was even an unsubstantiated rumor that Duran deliberately through the fight to set up the rubber match Leonard v Duran III for a monster payday.
McCallum was a better Jrmiddlle and Middle weight than either Jackson or Duran. He went after Jackson in that second round harder than he would any opponent in his career after nearly getting ko'd himself. Also, although they had about the same number of fights, McCullum was a little more experienced against quality oppisition at that point in time.barry I don't doubt Jackson had the bomb, I just don't think he had the technology to deliver it perfectly to the intended target in this particular case. There are a few examples of that in his career where that was the case...no? M&M Taylor Phillips Jones....but come to think of it he never lost by decision correct? I'm now going on memory alone....did he only lose by KO?
The Taylor, Phillips and Jones losses came at a time when Jackson was well past his best. I'm surprised that you would hold these fights against Jackson, Boxbuzz. Its like holding the Joppy fight against Duran.
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>>>The Taylor, Phillips and Jones losses came at a time when Jackson was well past his best. I'm surprised that you would hold these fights against Jackson, Boxbuzz. Its like holding the Joppy fight against Duran.<<<
My sentiments exactly! A pretty good argument could be made that Jackson was pretty well past it by the time he faced McClellan...he had already been fighting close to 13 years, plus the bad eyes, but McClellan did exactly what a fighter needed to do to beat Jackson...overwhelm him, but over the years that Jackson fought there were only a small few that really had the punch to do it...McClellan was one as was McCallum at 154 and if my memory is correct, I seem to recall that McCallum started out in they're fight trying to purely box Jackson and after getting his bell rung he took the fight straight to Jackson and unlike most others McCallum had the punch at 154 to get the job done...Duran did not...not at 160!
My sentiments exactly! A pretty good argument could be made that Jackson was pretty well past it by the time he faced McClellan...he had already been fighting close to 13 years, plus the bad eyes, but McClellan did exactly what a fighter needed to do to beat Jackson...overwhelm him, but over the years that Jackson fought there were only a small few that really had the punch to do it...McClellan was one as was McCallum at 154 and if my memory is correct, I seem to recall that McCallum started out in they're fight trying to purely box Jackson and after getting his bell rung he took the fight straight to Jackson and unlike most others McCallum had the punch at 154 to get the job done...Duran did not...not at 160!
I'm afraid I have to agree with you again Buzzy, Jackson didnt have the technology.... people underate Durans strength at 160... he was strong enougth to get the respect of Hagler and beat Barkley, he even floored Barkley who had a great chin... I think Duran had the power to hurt Jackson... perhaps not ko him but certainly to keep his respect....BoxBuzz wrote:barry I don't doubt Jackson had the bomb, I just don't think he had the technology to deliver it perfectly to the intended target in this particular case. There are a few examples of that in his career where that was the case...no? M&M Taylor Phillips Jones....but come to think of it he never lost by decision correct? I'm now going on memory alone....did he only lose by KO?
Re: re
well, McCallum is an all time great & - I would go as far to say - the best junior middleweight ever. Plus, Mike was a better middleweight than Duran - while Duran was having life & death with Barkley and Sims, McCallum was beating master boxers Graham, Kalambay, har dnut Collins and the very good Watson, not to mention holding his own with a 15 years junior Toney.silkov wrote:I'm not doubting Jacksons power but he never fought anyone as good as Duran... Duran would see the punches coming against Jackson, Julian didnt have the speed or height of Hearns, I'm not saying Jackson would have no chance against Duran, but I lean towards Roberto... Jackson didnt have that great a chin himself and was vulnerble to picking up eye damage in fights, if Roberto weathered the early storm I see him breaking down Jackson and taking control later on... not every one can be knocked out and I think Julian would find Durans chin an equal to his power in this fight...barry wrote:Duran was embarrassed by Leonard...he wasn't hurt by the punches...just completely frustrated to no end and he realized that he had virtually no chance and could not win the fight and he just quit. Excuses for such a brilliant warrior are understandable, but I don't buy the bowels excuse. It's been a long time since I watched the fight, but I cannot really recall Duran showing any signs that he may be suffering any kind of discomfort, other than the discomfort of not being able to land a punch on Leonard.
Actually, if Duran and Barkley had not fought then I would probably favor Duran in that bout simply because Barkley is "caveman-like" in his style and although he could punch hard, he didn’t have the kind of punch to just end a fight against a fighter with a very solid chin…whereas Jackson, it did not matter how good a chin was, Jackson could dent it.
but hey, McCallum squashed Jackson in two rounds, lol. did him away with around 45 unanswered shots...On the other hand, Norris was a better junior middle than Duran and it seemed inevitable that Jackson would pulverise him, which he did.
But Jackson, I feel, would have too much firepower for a pudgy, soft-ish Duran. If he kept beating the body he'd wear him down, imo.
What about Emile Griffith? I think he could give both The Bodysnatcher and The Hitman all the trouble they could handle at 11st.theone wrote:Great post vicious. Although I would rate McCullum the second greatest Jr. Middle of all time after Hearns. I dont think anyone beats Hearns at this weight. But McCullum is too close a second in my mind to really argue with someone who rates him #1.
If you didnt own ko power, you had no chance of defeating prime Hearns; especially at Jr. Middle. Griffith would be competetive but be outboxed alot like Benitez was.What about Emile Griffith? I think he could give both The Bodysnatcher and The Hitman all the trouble they could handle at 11st.
I think McCallum and Griffith would be a great match. Griffith had the skill and speed to outbox the bodysnatcher, and McCullum wes well rounded enough to pound out a UD win.
In this one I'm going with McCullum. He seemed the more consistant of the two and I believe his strenght and power edge wins him the fight more often than not.