Pierre Coetzer vs. John L. Sullivan

[Cutman Scabbers]

Two Contests:
(1) 15 round bout
(2) best moustache

[Bodyshot3]

Two Contests:
(1) 15 round bout
(2) best moustache

One for the hipster barbers

[Cutman Scabbers]

You decide:

[margaret thatcher]

i call it a draw, pierre has the edge in thickness, but john l's stache was more refined

[HomicideHenry]

While it is difficult to gauge someone who has no fight films recorded, I have spent a lot of time researching Sullivan and despite the image of him being nothing more than a low ring IQ bare knuckle brawler that is not really the truth as he only had a handful of bare-knuckle contests and had hundreds of gloved contests and exhibitions.

He was quick handed, used a lot of feints, used a lot of counter punches, and was quite explosive. At his best, he had the endurance to go full blast for an hour or more --- and when you combine that with tremendous hitting power and toughness, it's easy to see why he was basically the champion of the world for 12 years (5 years bare-knuckle, 7 years gloved).

Most of his opponents could not last four rounds with him. While it is true one can make an argument that truly world class opposition was few and far between in that era, this was a man who was held in high regard by historians well into the 1960s.

Coetzer, I think is one of those underrated heavyweights from the 1990s, but he did come up short in the most critical of matches: Foreman, Bruno, Bowe, and Ocasio. He was rather slow and kind of right there to be hit, which I think is all wrong against a guy like Sullivan.

I figure the fight most likely ends on a technical knockout somewhere between the 8th and 10th round with Sullivan winning. Coetzer will have a moment or two in the fight, but he's getting swarmed basically throughout the contest.

[scorpio83]

Either Coetzer out-box Sullivan behind his jabs and combinations on the outside to take a decision win or Sullivan would swarm him by cutting off the ropes and working on the body to slow Coetzer down, then knocking him out in 11 rounds.

[Cutman Scabbers]

i call it a draw, pierre has the edge in thickness, but john l's stache was more refined

Waxed & twisted?

[Cutman Scabbers]

While it is difficult to gauge someone who has no fight films recorded, I have spent a lot of time researching Sullivan and despite the image of him being nothing more than a low ring IQ bare knuckle brawler that is not really the truth as he only had a handful of bare-knuckle contests and had hundreds of gloved contests and exhibitions.

He was quick handed, used a lot of feints, used a lot of counter punches, and was quite explosive. At his best, he had the endurance to go full blast for an hour or more --- and when you combine that with tremendous hitting power and toughness, it's easy to see why he was basically the champion of the world for 12 years (5 years bare-knuckle, 7 years gloved).

Most of his opponents could not last four rounds with him. While it is true one can make an argument that truly world class opposition was few and far between in that era, this was a man who was held in high regard by historians well into the 1960s.

Coetzer, I think is one of those underrated heavyweights from the 1990s, but he did come up short in the most critical of matches: Foreman, Bruno, Bowe, and Ocasio. He was rather slow and kind of right there to be hit, which I think is all wrong against a guy like Sullivan.

I figure the fight most likely ends on a technical knockout somewhere between the 8th and 10th round with Sullivan winning. Coetzer will have a moment or two in the fight, but he's getting swarmed basically throughout the contest.

Thank you for the in-depth analysis.

Watching Coetzer's fight with Foreman, I was impressed by how fast his right hand was at times.
He also started off the fight mobile, moving side to side -- an approach the commentators suggest he borrowed from Alex Stewart in Foreman's previous fight, which Tommy Morrison employed to perfection in the next.

[HomicideHenry]

While it is difficult to gauge someone who has no fight films recorded, I have spent a lot of time researching Sullivan and despite the image of him being nothing more than a low ring IQ bare knuckle brawler that is not really the truth as he only had a handful of bare-knuckle contests and had hundreds of gloved contests and exhibitions.

He was quick handed, used a lot of feints, used a lot of counter punches, and was quite explosive. At his best, he had the endurance to go full blast for an hour or more --- and when you combine that with tremendous hitting power and toughness, it's easy to see why he was basically the champion of the world for 12 years (5 years bare-knuckle, 7 years gloved).

Most of his opponents could not last four rounds with him. While it is true one can make an argument that truly world class opposition was few and far between in that era, this was a man who was held in high regard by historians well into the 1960s.

Coetzer, I think is one of those underrated heavyweights from the 1990s, but he did come up short in the most critical of matches: Foreman, Bruno, Bowe, and Ocasio. He was rather slow and kind of right there to be hit, which I think is all wrong against a guy like Sullivan.

I figure the fight most likely ends on a technical knockout somewhere between the 8th and 10th round with Sullivan winning. Coetzer will have a moment or two in the fight, but he's getting swarmed basically throughout the contest.

Thank you for the in-depth analysis.

Watching Coetzer's fight with Foreman, I was impressed by how fast his right hand was at times.
He also started off the fight mobile, moving side to side -- an approach the commentators suggest he borrowed from Alex Stewart in Foreman's previous fight, which Tommy Morrison employed to perfection in the next.

The only comment I can make is that Foreman was 44 years old, and basically was being written off at this point due to the pitiful performance he had against Stewart. He was already slow to begin with, but at this point he was getting so slow he was there to be hit.

Coetzer was 32 years old, so in comparison to George I would fully expect him to have faster hands or faster movement at least in the early going--- but between George's tremendous hitting power and endurance and toughness, he basically outlasted the South African who started to tire.

When George lost to Morrison in the next outing, he most definitely was written off by the public and the experts. But he did use that to his advantage when he was given the Moorer fight by basically letting the newly crowned champion be so comfortable teeing off on him that Moorer threw all caution to the wind and got reckless.