Should James Scott have been allowed to fight for the title ?

[goose 5]

What are the board's thoughts ?

[Perseus]

100% up to the opponent.

If the opponent is willing to fight inside a prison then yes.
If the opponent does not want to fight inside a prison then no.

[margaret thatcher]

im not totally familar with the scott story - how did he get to continue his career in prison, when basically every other imprisoned boxer has their career go inactive? who was backing him

[orbtastic]

I could be wrong but I recall the story is something like:

In and out of prison/reform
Took up boxing
New Jersey authorities actually had a boxing program for inmates, you could train to not just be a boxer
Won state prison title at light heavy
Released on parole to peruse career
Violated parole
Confined to prison (again)
Continued career but all bouts fought at Rahway prison
Beat Eddie Gregory (wba no 1, future wba champ)
Had some bouts televised
WBA removed him from rankings
Career stalled
Others started to question basically supporting a convicted felon
Lost decision to qawi (another ex con from rahway)

I think he was charged with murder at one point. Can’t remember the ins and outs. There’s a (modern) section on him in tris dixon’s book

[Caractacus]

I seem to remember he fought and won some kind of a title in the early 1990's ?
It was shown on either USA Tuesday Night Fights or ESPN.
He looked border-line elderly for a fighter in doing it ,from what I remember.

[Caractacus]

im not totally familar with the scott story - how did he get to continue his career in prison, when basically every other imprisoned boxer has their career go inactive? who was backing him

same people who get a kick-back for smuggling cell phones into prisions in recent years would imagine.

[Caractacus]

what I wanna know is-Who was the 'well-regarded" Heavyweight "Condenteh"
That Scott had knocked out (on their feet)in a sparring session
at Angeleo Dundee's 5th Street Gym in Miami in early January 1974 ?
( around the time when Ali was training for the re-match with Joe Frazier )

[goose 5]

He never fought after 1981.

[margaret thatcher]

I could be wrong but I recall the story is something like:

In and out of prison/reform
Took up boxing
New Jersey authorities actually had a boxing program for inmates, you could train to not just be a boxer
Won state prison title at light heavy
Released on parole to peruse career
Violated parole
Confined to prison (again)
Continued career but all bouts fought at Rahway prison
Beat Eddie Gregory (wba no 1, future wba champ)
Had some bouts televised
WBA removed him from rankings
Career stalled
Others started to question basically supporting a convicted felon
Lost decision to qawi (another ex con from rahway)

I think he was charged with murder at one point. Can’t remember the ins and outs. There’s a (modern) section on him in tris dixon’s book

[Caractacus]

I just seem to remember seeing James Scott in some sort of title fight on TV
back in the 1990's
anyone else remember it ? or was it just my imagination ?
perhaps it was another fighter that came out of retirement.
and im just confused.

[Nile4000]

I think so. But the problem is, whatchamp was going to go into Rahway to defend. And would they allow James to fight at the Meadowlands or Atlantic City?

[Wee Tommy]

I remember Qawi getting asked if he was intimidated going into Rahway to fight. He basically said he was too dog when he was inside and had no boxing experience so why would he be scared now he was a pro fighter.

Proper natural fighter Qawi. Absolute legend.

[p4p1]

I think so. But the problem is, whatchamp was going to go into Rahway to defend. And would they allow James to fight at the Meadowlands or Atlantic City?

edit: Upon further reflection I may have changed my mind.
I don't think athletes should get special concessions in prison. As far as I know, no prisoners are allowed to work any jobs that aren't prison jobs. It makes no sense for him to be able to.

[Ambling Alp II]

That is kind of where I was at. As a fan, it was nice to see him in good fights against good opponents. But he should not have got special privileges just because he was an athlete.

[Caractacus]

I had heard he was given a special diet like T-Bone steaks and good healthy food
and some of the other prisoners became resentfull of it.

[HomicideHenry]

There is a historical precedent.

In 1805 Henry Pearce "The Game Chicken," fought John Gully who was in debtors prison. Pearce was kind of embarrassed by the performance (Gully edged him) so he paid off the man's debts and had a rematch with him where he won. After those two fights Pearce became the champion of England when he defeated Jem Belcher. Pearce was supposed to fight Gully again in 1807, but due to poor health the match never happened and he relinquished the title. Gully then became the champion. Ironically he would later become a member of parliament for two terms.

[Wee Tommy]

There is a historical precedent.

In 1805 Henry Pearce "The Game Chicken," fought John Gully who was in debtors prison. Pearce was kind of embarrassed by the performance (Gully edged him) so he paid off the man's debts and had a rematch with him where he won. After those two fights Pearce became the champion of England when he defeated Jem Belcher. Pearce was supposed to fight Gully again in 1807, but due to poor health the match never happened and he relinquished the title. Gully then became the champion. Ironically he would later become a member of parliament for two terms.

Gully’s story is very interesting however it’s a lot different being in debtors jail to being a violent offender and recidivist.

[bwu]

100% up to the opponent.

If the opponent is willing to fight inside a prison then yes.
If the opponent does not want to fight inside a prison then no.

Agreed.

[bollocks]

The guy was a major criminal. Having someone like that as titleholder would not have done the image of the sport one bit of good

[margaret thatcher]

yet in a way having a jailbird as world champ would be very fitting for boxing

[Riddick Bowie]

Scott was hopeless. After a life in and out of prison, he was free, boxing professionally, had a good team (Pacheco in his corner and a manager who wouldn't even take a cut of his purses). After 12 fights he had an apartment, a fancy car and a girlfriend. He was a draw in Miami. And yet he couldn't resist the lure of the gutter, running around with crooks doing stick-ups. What's a talented pro fighter with a big future doing driving around Jersey at night with a corpse in the car?

Would you get yourself in that situation if you were a flush pug with a top 10 ranking? Is Scott's behaviour comprehensible to anyone who is not insane? His younger brother was also in Rahway, doing life for murder, so maybe it was something in the gene pool.

As to the question of why Scott was allowed to fight professionally behind bars, it was the synchronicity of him being assigned to run the boxing programme at Rahway, a warden who was game for new ideas, and Murad Muhammad being willing to work with them as a promoter. He had two low key comeback bouts, but enticing no 1 ranked Eddie Gregory into a fight in turn brought HBO on board, and the resulting fight and upset suddenly made Scott a bonafide contender and TV attraction. Imagine if Ike Ibeabuchi could have landed in such fortuitous circumstances!

Scott and his team knew that no champion was going to defend inside Rahway, so he tried to apply for "full minimum", a programme which allowed inmates to take part in work outside of prison walls. The administration ultimately felt Scott was not an exceptional individual, were already unhappy about his preferential treatment, and refused him full minimum. Murad Muhammad wanted his fight with Yacqui Lopez to be for the WBA title (stripped from Victor Galindez) but the WBA denied his request and even stripped Scott of his ranking. He was handicapped as far as preparation and it's amazing he did what he did in Rahway.

[margaret thatcher]

[Nile4000]

I think so. But the problem is, whatchamp was going to go into Rahway to defend. And would they allow James to fight at the Meadowlands or Atlantic City?

edit: Upon further reflection I may have changed my mind.
I don't think athletes should get special concessions in prison. As far as I know, no prisoners are allowed to work any jobs that aren't prison jobs. It makes no sense for him to be able to.

Understood .

[bollocks]

I read years ago in Phil Berg's book 'Punchlines' that Scott had to pay the authorities to have steak and egg meals which sounds about right...imagine the uproar if he'd been given special priveileges

[bollocks]

yet in a way having a jailbird as world champ would be very fitting for boxing

"hey Ma, I wanna be just like this guy"