Thoughts about David Benavidez?

[KiwiRider]

Which bullet point(s), in my first post in this thread, do you feel is factually inaccurate?

How come you keep asking this question to anyone that replies?

I feel that people resort to undermining the arguer rather than their argument (or try to completely change the topic), when someone conveys facts that don’t adhere to their preferred narrative.

Every time I ask this same question, no one replies, because let’s face it, all I’ve done is detail seemingly uncomfortable truths that David Benavidez’s fans cannot refute.

I don’t know what to say, really… shall I respond to their insults or should I try the steer the discussions back to the real-world facts related to the actual topic of this thread?

No one is undermining your "argument".
I don't even read it as an argument, more a time line of data. And if you read my post, I was complementing you on a part if it I enjoyed.
You need to chill Lightie. You've got your hackles up for no reason.

[Bandog]

How come you keep asking this question to anyone that replies?

I feel that people resort to undermining the arguer rather than their argument (or try to completely change the topic), when someone conveys facts that don’t adhere to their preferred narrative.

Every time I ask this same question, no one replies, because let’s face it, all I’ve done is detail seemingly uncomfortable truths that David Benavidez’s fans cannot refute.

I don’t know what to say, really… shall I respond to their insults or should I try the steer the discussions back to the real-world facts related to the actual topic of this thread?

No one is undermining your "argument".
I don't even read it as an argument, more a time line of data. And if you read my post, I was complementing you on a part if it I enjoyed.
You need to chill Lightie. You've got your hackles up for no reason.

I'm undermining his data, in terms of skewing "facts" to his narrative, telling one side, not the full truth. Literally anyone could make the same type of post of any top boxer or up and comer.

If anyone wants an example, let me know.I'll start with Mall Charlo. EO is a troll and bad for our sport. EO wants attention, and arguments, like trolls do.

Hell, lets start one on Boots! Same age, less accomplished, no belts ever, brings nothing to the table. Just make sure it's someone you hate, and it will be ok.

[skanksta]

Why someone would go to such great lengths to bash a 25 yr old professional boxer is beyond me, but then I saw who the troll was that posted it.

Which bullet point(s), in my first post in this thread, do you feel is factually inaccurate?

You never are factually inaccurate - you're careful not to be.
But you ARE ridiculously, inventively selective and disingenuous.
It's obvious why people think DB is good and wouldn't mind him vs Canelo..

[Evander]

This point in his career he should learn a bit more about temperament.

[Enlightened-One]

You never are factually inaccurate - you're careful not to be.
But you ARE "ridiculously, inventively selective and disingenuous"

Which bullet point(s), in my first post in this thread, do you feel is either factually inaccurate or is “ridiculously, inventively selective and disingenuous”?

It’s a reasonable question, don’t you agree?

If you’re going to resort to using insults, you may as well try to justify them by providing an example of my so-called “wrongdoing”.

[Enlightened-One]

I'm undermining his data, in terms of skewing "facts" to his narrative, telling one side, not the full truth. Literally anyone could make the same type of post of any top boxer or up and comer.

You haven’t directly addressed any of the facts detailed in the first post in this thread.

In fact, you haven’t even attempted to do so.

If anyone wants an example, let me know.I'll start with Mall Charlo.

The topic of this thread is David Benavidez.

If you want to talk about Jermall Charlo, then create your own thread.

I won’t allow you to employ diversionary tactics, to avoid discussing the matter at hand, simply because you’re unable to undermine any of the facts detailed in the first post in this thread.

EO is a troll and bad for our sport. EO wants attention, and arguments, like trolls do.

Do trolls perform research and list facts that you are unable to undermine?

Hell, lets start one on Boots! Same age, less accomplished, no belts ever, brings nothing to the table.

This is the second time within the same post you've tried to employ diversionary tactics, to avoid discussing the matter at hand, simply because you’re unable to undermine any of the facts detailed in the first post in this thread.

For the record, David Benavidez captured his first world title almost five years ago. So there's no point in pretending he's simply a young up-and-comer or a prospect.

Just make sure it's someone you hate, and it will be ok.

I don't hate David Benavidez. He actually comes across as a likeable guy in his interviews.

I've listed facts about David Benavidez.

I have not conveyed a derogatory opinion of Benavidez in this thread.

[Enlightened-One]

No one is undermining your "argument".
I don't even read it as an argument, more a time line of data. And if you read my post, I was complementing you on a part if it I enjoyed.
You need to chill Lightie. You've got your hackles up for no reason.

To be fair, all I’ve done is repeatedly ask the same question to those who attempt to insult me.

David Benavidez seems to receive an awful lot of hype and praise from the forum, with people blatantly ignoring real-world historical events.

The same individuals are attacking me for conveying a frustratingly accurate chronological timeline of the key events of Benavidez’s career.

I’m not annoyed or upset; in fact I find it rather strange, almost amusing, to see so many people outraged or emotionally distraught about being reminded of historical events that actually happened in the real-world.

But like I said before, people are attacking the arguer, because they can’t do a damn thing about the argument itself.

[Enlightened-One]

David Benavidez is one of those fighters that bizarrely receives an honorary rite of passage to being regarded as the best super-middleweight on the planet (from those not named Canelo) from fight fans, without even needing to face any decent opponents.

He seems to receive kudos from certain fans for theoretical “victories” (based solely on opinions/expectation), with the same mentally deranged individuals also choosing to criticise other fighters for their real-world wins.

But lets’ not pretend that Benavidez’s lack of career progression is due to him being allegedly “fearsome” or the “Boogeyman” at 168lbs, because:

• Benavidez only engaged in 15 amateur bouts and didn’t achieve anything notable.

• In September 2017, David Benavidez got off the canvas to win a split decision over Ronald Gavril, in a fight where the outcome could have gone either way.

• In June 2018, seven months after signing a four-year contract extension with his existing promoter, Sampson Boxing, he accepted (and then had to return) a $250K sign-on bonus payment he wrongly accepted from Top Rank to join Bob Arum’s stable.

• In September 2018, he failed an out-of-competition drug test when he tested positive for a component of cocaine (benzoylecgonine). He admitted to making a mistake, was stripped of his WBC title and also served a suspension.

• In September 2019, David Benavidez regained his WBC world super-middleweight title when he stopped the past-his-prime iteration of Anthony Dirrell (that had previously struggled to overcome Avni Yildirim).

• In August 2020, the undisciplined David Benavidez failed to make weight for his fight against Roamer Alexis (by a 3lbs margin) and was subsequently stripped of his WBC title for the second time.

• In March 2021, Benavidez rejected an opportunity to face the current WBC middleweight titleholder, Jermall Charlo, in a catch-weight bout.

• In November 2021, the inactive David Benavidez engaged in only his fifth fight during a 45-month timeframe when he faced the lacklustre and unrated Kyrone Davis - a natural middleweight that only received 16 days’ notice (having previously scored only three victories within the last four years against journeymen suffering poor form, with only one of those wins coming against an opponent weighing more than 160lbs).

• Benavidez’s career best victories have come against a past-his-prime iteration of Anthony Dirrell and Ronald Gavril.

• Benavidez’s next opponent is the past-his-prime iteration of David Lemieux (with the Canadian previously needing to rise from the canvas to win a split decision over the journeyman, Maksym Bursak).

David Benavidez comes across as a nice guy though, but he’s made many poor career-based decisions and his resume is weak.

Therefore, why are people clamouring for Canelo to face David Benavidez?

Why do people feel that Canelo is “ducking” Benavidez, when it’s clear the American hasn’t earned the right to receive such a prestigious mega payday opportunity?

Thoughts?

[skanksta]

Which of your bullet points are untrue ? None of them.

Which of your points are totally disingenuous cherry picking ? All of them.

We could do what you do with anyone.
Give me a fighter ? Ok, of the top of my head I'll just choose... Andre SOG Ward - he'll do. He's an obvious HOF great with impressive achievements.
I could go through his record with a toothcomb saying things like...,

"floored heavily by club fighter whatsisname (I'm not actually bothering to do your nonsense)
Gifted an easy route thru The Super 6
Couldn't put away aging King Artur who was a great MW but shit SMW
Only fought Froch after he'd already been beaten by an aging Kessler
Padded his record with an overweight Paul Smith.
Moved up to LHW rather than fight somebody or other
Never KO'd anyone good
Boring style too - needed to clinch all the time.
When he finally stepped up to super-elite level he needed a gift hometown decision.
Only stopped Krusher when he was a washed up alcoholic.

All these bullet points are - at least mostly - true, but it's just boring trolling.

[Enlightened-One]

Which of your bullet points are untrue ? None of them.

You’re the first person in this thread to finally concede this point.

Even though I know you dislike me, I have to respect you for acknowledging facts when they’re presented to you.

Which of your points are totally disingenuous cherry picking ? All of them.

So you’re suggesting I’ve gone out of my way to carefully select facts to intentionally portray David Benavidez in a bad light?

OK, well I’m willing to revise my opinion if you can provide a set of facts, not your personal opinions, that portrays Benavidez in a positive light, which more than compensates for the lack of quality names on his resume, coupled with him being needlessly stripped of his WBC world super-middleweight title twice.

For the record, David Benavidez won his first world title fight almost 55 months ago.

I look forward to your reply.

[skanksta]

Which of your bullet points are untrue ? None of them.

You’re the first person in this thread to finally concede this point.

Even though I know you dislike me, I have to respect you for acknowledging facts when they’re presented to you.

Which of your points are totally disingenuous cherry picking ? All of them.

So you’re suggesting I’ve gone out of my way to carefully select facts to intentionally portray David Benavidez in a bad light?

OK, well I’m willing to revise my opinion if you can provide a set of facts, not your personal opinions, that portrays Benavidez in a positive light, which more than compensates for the lack of quality on his resume, coupled with him being needlessly stripped of his WBC world super-middleweight title twice.

I look forward to your reply.

I DO like you, I just think you're silly.

[skanksta]

Oh, and....

I submit entirely to all your points - as we all inevitably must - Oh Enlightened One.

[Enlightened-One]

Oh, and....

I submit entirely to all your points - as we all inevitably must - Oh Enlightened One.

We’re all entitled to our opinions, but we’re not entitled to our own facts.

Like you already admitted, the first post in this thread simply contains a list of facts.

If you’re a massive fan of David Benavidez, then good for you.

The jury is still out for me, simply because of the lack of quality names on his resume, coupled with his proven track record for lacking discipline.

Benavidez comes across as a nice guy when he's being interviewed, so I don't dislike him as a person. I just think he's not done enough yet to have earned the amount hype that's currently being bestowed upon him.

[Bandog]

Oh, and....

I submit entirely to all your points - as we all inevitably must - Oh Enlightened One.

We’re all entitled to our opinions, but we’re not entitled to our own facts.

Like you already admitted, the first post in this thread simply contains a list of facts.

If you’re a massive fan of David Benavidez, then good for you.

The jury is still out for me, simply because of the lack of quality names on his resume, coupled with his proven track record for lacking discipline.

Benavidez comes across as a nice guy when he's being interviewed, so I don't dislike him as a person. I just think he's not done enough yet to have earned the amount hype that's currently being bestowed upon him.

Mall Charlo called out Benevidez at 168, until DB verbally agreed, then offered a fight at 164, knowing DB can't make the weight.

Speaking to Brian Custer, Charlo said:

“Yeah, let’s make that fight happen. Imma knock his little punk a** out. I promise that I put that on everything I learned. I give him about four rounds, five rounds, I’ll knock him out. About five rounds, six rounds, no more. He get hit too much.”

Speaking to Tyson, I think the truth came out with regards to not just DB, but a potential Andrade fight too.

The conversation went like, “Fear is a part of the game you know. If you are not afraid, you are in the wrong business, man. That’s what would have sent us to the greatest heights that we are ever capable of getting without fear.” said Mike Tyson

“I am not afraid to make my mistake,” (Charlo)

“You don’t have to be afraid. You are afraid of humiliation.” (Tyson)

“True” (Charlo)


Thoughts?

[Rocky-]

Imagine if every small detail we allegedly did wrong was documented on the net and held against us

2018 - woman accuses wales of shouting you’ve got big brazzers at her (charges dropped as she had small ones)

Make it funny & awkward like Kramer (Seinfeld) or Larry (curb) and you'll become an internet sensation.

[H8Usernames]

My thoughts about David Benavidez: Never seen him fight and never will.

[The Gratest]

My thoughts; Wales sounds like a bit of a character and, given his big nose, makes sense he has an attraction to penguins.

[margaret thatcher]

not the penguins!!