Best white boxer of all time?

[silkov]

Obviously Tysonfan needs to read some books...
How about Benny Leonard, Jim Driscoll, Freddie Welsh etc etc etc?...eh?.... as pound for pound great white boxers go Dempsey probably doesnt make the top 50.... :x

Welsh was NOT a boxer.

Welsh was an infighter.

And I suppose Dempsey was a 'boxer' was he??...

[silkov]

Ok Cranberry, :x cut the crap, :x :x :x are you or are you not the poster formerly known as Terap!!!??.. :x .. 8)

[KOJOE90]

All the flaws and limitations in Ali's style were exposed by Young for 15 excruciating rounds for poor Ali.

To be fair Jimmy Young did and could make almost any fighter look bad. It was almost impossible for anyone to look good against Young due to his excellent skills.

He was a special fighter who got screwed by boxing politics and then as we all know was lost to drink and drugs.

'IF' Jimmy Young had stayed 'clean' and in shape etc. I have often thought he could have given Larry Holmes all the trouble he could handle circa 78-80. But I not sure Team Holmes would have rushed to give Jimmy a title fight.

I think very highly of Jimmy Young as do many others here. I also think he was a better body puncher than many give him credit for.

Due to this it's not such a shock with hindsight that he gave an old, underprepared Ali such a tough fight. Jimmy Young in my opinion would have given most of top Heavyweights of any era a tough nights work.

This is all speculation of course but I think a peak Joe Louis was one of the few who had the right combination of offensive skill, hand speed, power and accuracy to have the beating of Young with relatively little trouble.

Some say Tyson could do the same to Young also, myself I am not so sure but that’s for another thread.

[granberry]

Obviously Tysonfan needs to read some books...
How about Benny Leonard, Jim Driscoll, Freddie Welsh etc etc etc?...eh?.... as pound for pound great white boxers go Dempsey probably doesnt make the top 50.... :x

Welsh was NOT a boxer.

Welsh was an infighter.

And I suppose Dempsey was a 'boxer' was he??...

You are clueless. And proud of it.

[granberry]

Yeah, Jimmy McLarnin was Jewish, Benny Leonard was Irish, Rocky Graziano was Polish, Tony Zale was Italian, and Salvadar Sanchez was Chinese.

Sanchez was Mexican actually... :x :x :x

Very good.

The first time you have ever posted something that was correct.

Was that an accident?

[granberry]

All the flaws and limitations in Ali's style were exposed by Young for 15 excruciating rounds for poor Ali.

To be fair Jimmy Young did and could make almost any fighter look bad. It was almost impossible for anyone to look good against Young due to his excellent skills.

He was a special fighter who got screwed by boxing politics and then as we all know was lost to drink and drugs.

'IF' Jimmy Young had stayed 'clean' and in shape etc. I have often thought he could have given Larry Holmes all the trouble he could handle circa 78-80. But I not sure Team Holmes would have rushed to give Jimmy a title fight.

I think very highly of Jimmy Young as do many others here. I also think he was a better body puncher than many give him credit for.

Due to this it's not such a shock with hindsight that he gave an old, underprepared Ali such a tough fight. Jimmy Young in my opinion would have given most of top Heavyweights of any era a tough nights work.

This is all speculation of course but I think a peak Joe Louis was one of the few who had the right combination of offensive skill, hand speed, power and accuracy to have the beating of Young with relatively little trouble.

Some say Tyson could do the same to Young also, myself I am not so sure but that’s for another thread.

What was Young's record against the 1970's heavyweights?

He beat Foreman, Ali, and Ron Lyle twice.

Young's fight with Ali showed that any of the great boxers who held the heavyweight title would have a had a field day with Ali and his limited repertoire of "tricks."

Tthe first thing Young did was to negate all of Ali's fouls.
That left Ali in a bad spot since the very limited boxing skills he had were put to the test (and failed).

Young is hated by the Ali worshippers because he exposed Ali for what he actually amounted to.

[KOJOE90]

Young is hated by the Ali worshippers because he exposed Ali for what he actually amounted to.

To be honest that has not been the case in my experience. Most people I have talked to (who's opinions I respect) have always praised Jimmy Young regardless wether they were Ali fans or not.

Just my experience on this matter.

[granberry]

Young is hated by the Ali worshippers because he exposed Ali for what he actually amounted to.

To be honest that has not been the case in my experience. Most people I have talked to (who's opinions I respect) have always praised Jimmy Young regardless wether they were Ali fans or not.

Just my experience on this matter.

Try to find any mention of the Young-Ali fight in entire books on Ali by the modern media's Mark Kram, Dave Kindred, David Remnick, Thomas Hauser, etc etc etc.

Young never existed according to the modern media and it's "experts."

[KOJOE90]

What was Young's record against the 1970's heavyweights?

It was very good that is plain to see. Even more so when you consider he was 'thrown in at the deepend' as a novice professional with the likes of Shavers and Tiger Williams.

But I guess Young learnt from those fights and they helped make him the clever fighter he became.

By all accounts he was unlucky to get a draw in the Shavers rematch. But I admit I have never seen that fight and probably never will, so I may be wrong on this matter.

[granberry]

By all accounts he was unlucky to get a draw in the Shavers rematch. But I admit I have never seen that fight and probably never will, so I may be wrong on this matter.

Young was "unlucky" to get a decision against him after the beating he gave Ali.

Ali was "lucky" to be given a "decision" over Young.

Young was "unlucky" that Palermo and company told him to "fight" as he did against Norton.

Young was "unlucky" that Don King told him after the Foreman fight that he would never be champion but that he could make some money as long as he understood that.

[theone]

Young's fight with Ali showed that any of the great boxers who held the heavyweight title would have a had a field day with Ali and his limited repertoire of "tricks."
The first thing Young did was to negate all of Ali's fouls.
That left Ali in a bad spot since the very limited boxing skills he had were put to the test (and failed).
Young is hated by the Ali worshippers because he exposed Ali for what he actually amounted to.

I am a huge Ali fan and consider him without a doubt the greatest heavyweight ever using both criterias,accomplishment and head to head.
I also acknowldge the fact, with no ill feelings in the slightest, that Young got shafted in his fight with Ali. Norton slightly less so later that year.

Young "defeated" a fat (230lbs 2nd heaviest of his career),faded, uninspired fighter who should have retired immediately after the thrilla in Manilla. All Young exposed in that fight was that Ali was not the fighter he once was. Period.

[theone]

Jeez, i forgot what was the original point of this post was for a sec.

Harry Greb was the greatest white fighter ever. There should be no doubt about this whatsoever.

[silkov]

Yeah, Jimmy McLarnin was Jewish, Benny Leonard was Irish, Rocky Graziano was Polish, Tony Zale was Italian, and Salvadar Sanchez was Chinese.

Sanchez was Mexican actually... :x :x :x

Very good.

The first time you have ever posted something that was correct.

Was that an accident?

Well Terap, I notice you dont deny your identity... I advise you to be more respectful in future, otherwise I may have to get you banned all over again matey.... 8)

[silkov]

By all accounts he was unlucky to get a draw in the Shavers rematch. But I admit I have never seen that fight and probably never will, so I may be wrong on this matter.

Young was "unlucky" to get a decision against him after the beating he gave Ali.

Ali was "lucky" to be given a "decision" over Young.

Young was "unlucky" that Palermo and company told him to "fight" as he did against Norton.

Young was "unlucky" that Don King told him after the Foreman fight that he would never be champion but that he could make some money as long as he understood that.

'Beating' I dont see Young giving Ali a beating, he made him look bad but he didnt look much better himself which is why he didnt win... you dont win fights by sticking your head out of the ring... Young was too negative and it cost him the fight. Live with it Cranberry... or else try watching the fight without your anti Ali blinkers... did Ali run off with your mom or something as you really have a bad obsession against him?>>>... 8)

[granberry]

Young "defeated" a fat (230lbs 2nd heaviest of his career),faded, uninspired fighter who should have retired immediately after the thrilla in Manilla.

Now tell us all about the physical condition Archie Moore was in when he fought Ali

Floyd Patterson

Cleveland Williams

Zora Folley

etc etc

Why is it you Ali shills are so concerned about Ali's condition and immediately use it as an excuse for the fights he lost

WHILE AT THE SAME TIME you have no concern about the condition of his opponents.

The Ali shills are instructed to sell Ali's "fight" against Cleveland Williams (who fought Ali missing one kidney, 10 feet of his small intestine, and with a shriveled left leg from nerve damage from the bullet he was shot with a year and a half earlier)

as PROOF that Ali was the "greatest" of all time.

You shills could at least pick a fight against an opponent who wasn't physically crippled.

[granberry]

Silkov,

In your feminine world the best you can do is try get to those who expose your lack of competence "banned."

Interesting.

[granberry]

did Ali run off with your mom or something as you really have a bad obsession against him?

Silkov,

Why do you feel free to write trash like that on this site?

[silkov]

did Ali run off with your mom or something as you really have a bad obsession against him?

Silkov,

Why do you feel free to write trash like that on this site?

Because you remind me of a dustbin!...

[pundit]

Harry Greb was the greatest white fighter ever. There should be no doubt about this whatsoever.

I agree on Greb, although Leonard and Pep are also legit picks. As would be Duran, who - as far as I can see - noone has mentioned yet (or is there a reason why Duran shouldn't be considered white either, Irish?)

Also, I'm dead certain that the best white fighter ever was not a heavyweight. No Dempsey, no Marciano, not even Gene Tunney (although Tunney is probably top 10).

[mattym]

do you honestly think that the thing about the kidney and the small intestine had anything to do with this fight atall? I think a more significant factor, is that Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time and beat Cleveland thoroughly with one of the greatest performances EVER seen.

[granberry]

did Ali run off with your mom or something as you really have a bad obsession against him?

Silkov,

I ASKED YOU A QUESTION.

Why do you feel free to write trash like that on this site?

[silkov]

Seriously though Cranberry my comments were tongue in cheek, though I do suspect that you were formerly known as Terap I bear no grudges and am happy to welcome you back to the fold with open arms providing you dont keep talking trash about Ali... looking at your posts I suspect that even you have a sense of humour!.... 8)

[silkov]

Silkov,

I ASKED YOU A QUESTION.

Why do you feel free to write trash like that on this site?

PLEASE READ ABOVE FOR INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!....

[granberry]

did Ali run off with your mom or something as you really have a bad obsession against him?

Silkov,

In a male world WHICH YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY UNFAMILIAR WITH

when you make remarks about someone's mother you have committed yourself to something you cannot back away from.

You have revealed the trash that you are.

I find it interesting that limp-wristed trash like you gravitates to a "boxing" site.

[silkov]

did Ali run off with your mom or something as you really have a bad obsession against him?

Silkov,

In a male world WHICH YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY UNFAMILIAR WITH

when you make remarks about someone's mother you have committed yourself to something you cannot back away from.

You have revealed the trash that you are.

I find it interesting that limp-wristed trash like you gravitates to a "boxing" site.

Well considering you started with the insults first perhaps you should have thought about that before hand, for such a hard man your very sensitive to a simple joke... if your such a man act like one and stop talking rot....