Your top 10 p4p update after Bivol winning Canelo

[oogiebe]

I'd still have Craw #1.

[Mexi-Box]

I'd still have Craw #1.

Who has he beaten? His best win is probably an aged Porter. Usyk beat P4P level, prime Briedis and Joshua (who has the deepest resume at HW and was on the P4P trail). Those wins dwarf anything Crawford has done.

[oogiebe]

I'd still have Craw #1.

Who has he beaten? His best win is probably an aged Porter. Usyk beat P4P level, prime Briedis and Joshua (who has the deepest resume at HW and was on the P4P trail). Those wins dwarf anything Crawford has done.

I disagree. You can make an argument, but to say those wins dwarf anything he's done, that's not an argument.

[Mexi-Box]

I'd still have Craw #1.

Who has he beaten? His best win is probably an aged Porter. Usyk beat P4P level, prime Briedis and Joshua (who has the deepest resume at HW and was on the P4P trail). Those wins dwarf anything Crawford has done.

I disagree. You can make an argument, but to say those wins dwarf anything he's done, that's not an argument.

It's not an arguement. It's a fact. You can't argue with facts.

[oogiebe]

Who has he beaten? His best win is probably an aged Porter. Usyk beat P4P level, prime Briedis and Joshua (who has the deepest resume at HW and was on the P4P trail). Those wins dwarf anything Crawford has done.

I disagree. You can make an argument, but to say those wins dwarf anything he's done, that's not an argument.

It's not an arguement. It's a fact. You can't argue with facts.

[gilgamesh]

I've got this way:

1. Terence Crawford
2. Naoya Inoue
3. Tyson Fury
4. Oleksandr Usyk
5. Dmitry Bivol
6. Errol Spence Jr
7. George Kambosos
8. Shakur Stevenson
9. Josh Taylor
10. Saul Alvarez

1. Usyk (this hasn't changed)
2. Errol Spence
3. Dmitry Bivol
4. Naoya Inoue
5. Tyson Fury
6. Canelo Alvarez
7. George Kambosos
8. Terence Crawford
9. Josh Taylor
10. Shakur Stevenson

[Ruthless-RKO]

Bivol is NOT top 5.

Beating someone on the list is good, it’s building on that.

If he now goes on to beat Winner if Beterbiev-Smith, then you can argue top5.

It’s about longevity.

You could even sneak him in at #9 or #10 and that should be enough.

He’s entered. Now it’s about remaining there, which is probably tougher.

[gilgamesh]

Bivol is NOT top 5.

Beating someone on the list is good, it’s building on that.

If he now goes on to beat Winner if Beterbiev-Smith, then you can argue top5.

It’s about longevity.

You could even sneak him in at #9 or #10 and that should be enough.

He’s entered. Now it’s about remaining there, which is probably tougher.

He beat the guy who was either #1 or #2 depending on who you ask, and he beat him decisively. That's enough to elevate you into the Top 5. Whether or not he STAYS there is gonna be up to how he performs from here, but he belongs there for now.

[oogiebe]

Bivol is NOT top 5.

Beating someone on the list is good, it’s building on that.

If he now goes on to beat Winner if Beterbiev-Smith, then you can argue top5.

It’s about longevity.

You could even sneak him in at #9 or #10 and that should be enough.

He’s entered. Now it’s about remaining there, which is probably tougher.

He beat the guy who was either #1 or #2 depending on who you ask, and he beat him decisively. That's enough to elevate you into the Top 5. Whether or not he STAYS there is gonna be up to how he performs from here, but he belongs there for now.

I don't know Gil. He was the bigger man. What if Bivol dried up to to 168 and lost by KO? Point is that p4p has more flaws than EO posts.

[gilgamesh]

Bivol is NOT top 5.

Beating someone on the list is good, it’s building on that.

If he now goes on to beat Winner if Beterbiev-Smith, then you can argue top5.

It’s about longevity.

You could even sneak him in at #9 or #10 and that should be enough.

He’s entered. Now it’s about remaining there, which is probably tougher.

He beat the guy who was either #1 or #2 depending on who you ask, and he beat him decisively. That's enough to elevate you into the Top 5. Whether or not he STAYS there is gonna be up to how he performs from here, but he belongs there for now.

I don't know Gil. He was the bigger man. What if Bivol dried up to to 168 and lost by KO? Point is that p4p has more flaws than EO posts.

We don't base things on "If's" we base them on what happened. IF Bivol had come down to 168 and got knocked out then Canelo would be P4P #1. He didn't, and he's not. Way she goes.

[gilgamesh]

I'd still have Craw #1.

He absolutely does not deserve that. He doesn't even deserve the Top 5 at this point. He's been treading water for YEARSSSSSSS.

[oogiebe]

He beat the guy who was either #1 or #2 depending on who you ask, and he beat him decisively. That's enough to elevate you into the Top 5. Whether or not he STAYS there is gonna be up to how he performs from here, but he belongs there for now.

I don't know Gil. He was the bigger man. What if Bivol dried up to to 168 and lost by KO? Point is that p4p has more flaws than EO posts.

We don't base things on "If's" we base them on what happened. IF Bivol had come down to 168 and got knocked out then Canelo would be P4P #1. He didn't, and he's not. Way she goes.

Point is that beating a smaller man doesn't do anything for P4P neither does losing to bigger man. At least it shouldn't if P4P was really about p4p. Just some weird thoughts on a lazy sunday.

[oogiebe]

I'd still have Craw #1.

He absolutely does not deserve that. He doesn't even deserve the Top 5 at this point. He's been treading water for YEARSSSSSSS.

meh

[gilgamesh]

I don't know Gil. He was the bigger man. What if Bivol dried up to to 168 and lost by KO? Point is that p4p has more flaws than EO posts.

We don't base things on "If's" we base them on what happened. IF Bivol had come down to 168 and got knocked out then Canelo would be P4P #1. He didn't, and he's not. Way she goes.

Point is that beating a smaller man doesn't do anything for P4P neither does losing to bigger man. At least it shouldn't if P4P was really about p4p. Just some weird thoughts on a lazy sunday.

Sure it does. Bivol's victory certainly counts for something. I don't think it rockets him to #1 or anything, but it has to elevate him significantly.

None of us were really giving him a chance before the fight, and he proved us wrong.

Some will argue that Tyson Fury doesn't belong on the P4P list because he's a Heavyweight, but to me that's ridiculous too. To me it's about who are the 10 best Boxers in the sport, regardless of weight. Everyone Fury faces is smaller, that doesn't mean everything he achieves is insignificant.

[gilgamesh]

I'd still have Craw #1.

He absolutely does not deserve that. He doesn't even deserve the Top 5 at this point. He's been treading water for YEARSSSSSSS.

meh

For the record I absolutely have no doubt about Crawford's ability. That's why I'm so hard on him. I'm disgusted that he's done so little with his talent. I'm confident he'll beat Spence when/if they fight. But in the meantime Spence ranks ahead of him because he's f*cking doing more to deserve it.

Thinking a guy is that good ain't the same as him proving it.

As of Right now Crawford's career has been a monumental waste. Even if he beats Spence he's still wasted almost 6 or 7 years of his prime doing virtually nothing.

[oogiebe]

He absolutely does not deserve that. He doesn't even deserve the Top 5 at this point. He's been treading water for YEARSSSSSSS.

meh

For the record I absolutely have no doubt about Crawford's ability. That's why I'm so hard on him. I'm disgusted that he's done so little with his talent. I'm confident he'll beat Spence when/if they fight. But in the meantime Spence ranks ahead of him because he's f*cking doing more to deserve it.

Thinking a guy is that good ain't the same as him proving it.

As of Right now Crawford's career has been a monumental waste. Even if he beats Spence he's still wasted almost 6 or 7 years of his prime doing virtually nothing.

You're not wrong. I just think he's proven to be top 3. It's all opinion. I wish he'd done more so far as well. Too many fights he hasn't had thus far.

[gilgamesh]

meh

For the record I absolutely have no doubt about Crawford's ability. That's why I'm so hard on him. I'm disgusted that he's done so little with his talent. I'm confident he'll beat Spence when/if they fight. But in the meantime Spence ranks ahead of him because he's f*cking doing more to deserve it.

Thinking a guy is that good ain't the same as him proving it.

As of Right now Crawford's career has been a monumental waste. Even if he beats Spence he's still wasted almost 6 or 7 years of his prime doing virtually nothing.

You're not wrong. I just think he's proven to be top 3. It's all opinion. I wish he'd done more so far as well. Too many fights he hasn't had thus far.

He's proven he's CAPABLE of being #1. He's achieved nothing that should put him in the Top 5 as of this moment. He used to be there, but everybody's been passing him up with achievements while he's just been killing time/talking sh*t/doing little.

He's one of the bigger wastes of talent I've seen to be honest. As far as a guy who is a P4P level talent, and just does nearly nothing with it. I've never seen a guy who was that level of talent do so little with it.

[gregregegg]

Bivol is NOT top 5.

Beating someone on the list is good, it’s building on that.

If he now goes on to beat Winner if Beterbiev-Smith, then you can argue top5.

It’s about longevity.

You could even sneak him in at #9 or #10 and that should be enough.

He’s entered. Now it’s about remaining there, which is probably tougher.

Fuk longevity, i dont care who you beat 10 years ago, i care who your beating in the last few years.

he is definatly top 5. he just dominated the universal p4p number 1. wasnt some lucky punch, he took him to school. he has also beat joe smith jr, pascal, Barrera, All very wide.

IF it was one win Id say you have an argument, but with those 3 wins backing it up to suggest he might be 9 or 10 is just madness.

Would love to see who you have above him, because i just can ot jusitfy many above him at this point.

[margaret thatcher]

bivol's gotta get a big boost, that win was about a lot more than size. canelo had already been a lhw champ too remember and was undisputed just 1 division below. so he has a track record at 175 and being dominant at 168. it's not like he was some little dude jumping a bunch of divisions for the fight.

id rate bivol schooling him higher than something like crawford beating porter after a close fight or spence beating ugas tbh

as mentioned ,taylor for me has no place in the list anymore after a gift vs jack caterall, a fighter who'd never boxed above european title level. why give credit to a robbery?

and inoue been stagnating too much, hasnt got a decent win in a few years now


so i think there's good reason to rate bivol pretty high tbh. he schooled the top p4p guy who'd also had success at the weight, and he's schooled other world class but non p4p fighters before too, it's not like he's only gotten 1 decent win

[gcart]

Until Crawford fights someone of quality and not past his prime I can't put him in top 3. Also GGG has to be in top 5 at least.

[lazboy]

So one off night/loss undoes all the work Canelo did in becoming pfp 1. I don’t see anyone below LH beating Canelo. He should still be in the top 3.

[gilgamesh]

So one off night/loss undoes all the work Canelo did in becoming pfp 1. I don’t see anyone below LH beating Canelo. He should still be in the top 3.

Next time he gets a big win or hell ANY win, he'll be right back in the mix. If he takes on Bivol immediately and loses twice it might be a bit harder of a slog back up the rankings, but as soon as he gets a win over say GGG, Charlo, Andrade...whoever he'll be right back in the Top 4 or 5 on everyone's list. I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to keep him at 5 now.

[Perkin Warbeck]

[joshj909]

I guess a lot of this discussion begs the question as to whether can someone be higher in a divisional weightclass than a person they are lower than in the p4p discussion. In my eyes they can but it's not going to happen frequently. E.g. possibly Canelo p4p higher than number 1 LHW Bivol based on his wins at lower weightclasses. This could also be applied to Spence and Crawford in the eyes of some I imagine. Spence higher at Welter while Crawford is higher p4p based on lower weight wins. It could also concern Lokachenko/Kambosos, Usyk/Fury.

It complicates things as moving weightclasses only makes p4p even more difficult because Crawford's, as an example, divisional records are not top p4p records, it's the combination of the wins across the divisions which make him p4p.

[Mexi-Box]

I guess a lot of this discussion begs the question as to whether can someone be higher in a divisional weightclass than a person they are lower than in the p4p discussion. In my eyes they can but it's not going to happen frequently. E.g. possibly Canelo p4p higher than number 1 LHW Bivol based on his wins at lower weightclasses. This could also be applied to Spence and Crawford in the eyes of some I imagine. Spence higher at Welter while Crawford is higher p4p based on lower weight wins. It could also concern Lokachenko/Kambosos, Usyk/Fury.

It complicates things as moving weightclasses only makes p4p even more difficult because Crawford's, as an example, divisional records are not top p4p records, it's the combination of the wins across the divisions which make him p4p.

Crawford was the bigger man at 135, and 140 was a dead division when he was there. His best wins were at WW, and they're barely anything as Porter was already through several wars and Brook and Khan were nothing wins.

Canelo is complete opposite. All wins were quality, and it's only a few times he was ever the bigger man: Lopez, Cotto, and Mayweather. Angulo, et al. at 154 were all drainers, and Jacobs is a massive drainer at 160.