Your top 10 p4p update after Bivol winning Canelo

[lazboy]

I guess a lot of this discussion begs the question as to whether can someone be higher in a divisional weightclass than a person they are lower than in the p4p discussion. In my eyes they can but it's not going to happen frequently. E.g. possibly Canelo p4p higher than number 1 LHW Bivol based on his wins at lower weightclasses. This could also be applied to Spence and Crawford in the eyes of some I imagine. Spence higher at Welter while Crawford is higher p4p based on lower weight wins. It could also concern Lokachenko/Kambosos, Usyk/Fury.

It complicates things as moving weightclasses only makes p4p even more difficult because Crawford's, as an example, divisional records are not top p4p records, it's the combination of the wins across the divisions which make him p4p.

Crawford was the bigger man at 135, and 140 was a dead division when he was there. His best wins were at WW, and they're barely anything as Porter was already through several wars and Brook and Khan were nothing wins.

Canelo is complete opposite. All wins were quality, and it's only a few times he was ever the bigger man: Lopez, Cotto, and Mayweather. Angulo, et al. at 154 were all drainers, and Jacobs is a massive drainer at 160.

Canelo’s a true super-middleweight and has been since 2016, possibly earlier.

[tiny_acres]

I guess a lot of this discussion begs the question as to whether can someone be higher in a divisional weightclass than a person they are lower than in the p4p discussion. In my eyes they can but it's not going to happen frequently. E.g. possibly Canelo p4p higher than number 1 LHW Bivol based on his wins at lower weightclasses. This could also be applied to Spence and Crawford in the eyes of some I imagine. Spence higher at Welter while Crawford is higher p4p based on lower weight wins. It could also concern Lokachenko/Kambosos, Usyk/Fury.

It complicates things as moving weightclasses only makes p4p even more difficult because Crawford's, as an example, divisional records are not top p4p records, it's the combination of the wins across the divisions which make him p4p.

Crawford was the bigger man at 135, and 140 was a dead division when he was there. His best wins were at WW, and they're barely anything as Porter was already through several wars and Brook and Khan were nothing wins.

Canelo is complete opposite. All wins were quality, and it's only a few times he was ever the bigger man: Lopez, Cotto, and Mayweather. Angulo, et al. at 154 were all drainers, and Jacobs is a massive drainer at 160.

Canelo’s a true super-middleweight and has been since 2016, possibly earlier.

In 2016 he was a middleweight making every opponent weigh 155 because he said he wasn't a true middleweight.

[Bandog]

Crawford was the bigger man at 135, and 140 was a dead division when he was there. His best wins were at WW, and they're barely anything as Porter was already through several wars and Brook and Khan were nothing wins.

Canelo is complete opposite. All wins were quality, and it's only a few times he was ever the bigger man: Lopez, Cotto, and Mayweather. Angulo, et al. at 154 were all drainers, and Jacobs is a massive drainer at 160.

Canelo’s a true super-middleweight and has been since 2016, possibly earlier.

In 2016 he was a middleweight making every opponent weigh 155 because he said he wasn't a true middleweight.

Canelo apparently was too dumb to realize 154.1-160 IS middleweight. He only did it for his benefit, being the diva he is.

[Evander]

Well if they ever get around to making Spence v Crawford, it's certainly an opportunity for either of them to jump into the number 1 spot now.
Hopefully now Canelo's lost it might encourage them to finally put this bout together, but I'm not holding my breath.

[tigermoth87]

1 - Fury
2 - Usyk
3 - Inoue
4 - Bivol
5 - Canelo
6 - Crawford
7 - Spence Jr
8 - Beterbiev
9 - GGG
10 - Taylor

[Enlightened-One]

1 - Fury
2 - Usyk
3 - Inoue
4 - Bivol
5 - Canelo
6 - Crawford
7 - Spence Jr
8 - Beterbiev
9 - GGG
10 - Taylor

Is Fury retired?

Should the 40-year-old version of GGG no longer be considered the best middleweight competing today?

Did Josh Taylor unofficially lose to Jack Catterall?

[Enlightened-One]

In 2016 he was a middleweight making every opponent weigh 155 because he said he wasn't a true middleweight.

Just to provide some historically accurate context to the actual facts of the situation:

Between November 2015 and September 2016, Canelo faced:

• Miguel Cotto at 155lbs (the Puerto Rican weighed 153½lbs for his previous bout when he captured the middleweight title from Sergio Martinez)
• Amir Khan at 155lbs (the Brit weighed 150lbs for his next outing after losing to Alvarez)
• Liam Smith at 154lbs (a lifelong 154lb-er)

The other occasions where Canelo weighed 155lbs were non-title bouts staged during 2014:

• Erislandy Lara at 155lbs (the Cuban currently holds the WBA world middleweight title and fought Canelo only 1lbs heavier than his normal weight during 2014)
• Alfredo Angulo at 155lbs (the Mexican has consistently been campaigning as a super-middleweight for the last 8½ years and fought Canelo only 1lbs heavier than his normal weight during 2014)

There seems to be a myth going around claiming that Canelo was making naturally “smaller” guys fight “big” for his 155lbs bouts, the facts of the matter clearly prove otherwise.

[tiny_acres]

In 2016 he was a middleweight making every opponent weigh 155 because he said he wasn't a true middleweight.

Just to provide some historically accurate context to the actual facts of the situation:

Between November 2015 and September 2016, Canelo faced:

• Miguel Cotto at 155lbs (the Puerto Rican weighed 153½lbs for his previous bout when he captured the middleweight title from Sergio Martinez)
• Amir Khan at 155lbs (the Brit weighed 150lbs for his next outing after losing to Alvarez)
• Liam Smith at 154lbs (a lifelong 154lb-er)

The other occasions where Canelo weighed 155lbs were non-title bouts staged during 2014:

• Erislandy Lara at 155lbs (the Cuban currently holds the WBA world middleweight title and fought Canelo only 1lbs heavier than his normal weight during 2014)
• Alfredo Angulo at 155lbs (the Mexican has consistently been campaigning as a super-middleweight for the last 8½ years and fought Canelo only 1lbs heavier than his normal weight during 2014)

There seems to be a myth going around claiming that Canelo was making naturally “smaller” guys fight “big” for his 155lbs bouts, the facts of the matter clearly prove otherwise.

The FACT of the matter is he made fighters weigh 155 for middleweight title bouts, when the universal weight limit for that division is 160. That is a fact.

[Enlightened-One]

The FACT of the matter is he made fighters weigh 155 for middleweight title bouts, when the universal weight limit for that division is 160. That is a fact.

The FACT of the matter is that Amir Khan was the only time he "MADE" and opponent weigh 155 for a middleweight title bout. That is a fact.

I really look forward to you trying to prove otherwise!!!

[tiny_acres]

The FACT of the matter is he made fighters weigh 155 for middleweight title bouts, when the universal weight limit for that division is 160. That is a fact.

The FACT of the matter is that Amir Khan was the only time he "MADE" and opponent weigh 155 for a middleweight title bout. That is a fact.

I really look forward to you trying to prove otherwise!!!

He made Cotto weigh 155 for their title bout

[Enlightened-One]

The FACT of the matter is he made fighters weigh 155 for middleweight title bouts, when the universal weight limit for that division is 160. That is a fact.

The FACT of the matter is that Amir Khan was the only time he "MADE" and opponent weigh 155 for a middleweight title bout. That is a fact.

I really look forward to you trying to prove otherwise!!!

He made Cotto weigh 155 for their title bout

What did Miguel Cotto weigh for his previous two world middleweight title fights?

[tiny_acres]

The FACT of the matter is that Amir Khan was the only time he "MADE" and opponent weigh 155 for a middleweight title bout. That is a fact.

I really look forward to you trying to prove otherwise!!!

He made Cotto weigh 155 for their title bout

What did Miguel Cotto weigh for his previous two world middleweight title fights?

So Mr. fact checker. Are you denying that Canelo's team said that he was too small for middleweight so until he grew into it they would be having fights at 155?

[Counter-puncher]

jesus, imagine spending all that time stroking yourself over your own posts... and being wrong

it's excruciating

still.... no, wait, there is no 'still', it's excruciating

[Enlightened-One]

He made Cotto weigh 155 for their title bout

What did Miguel Cotto weigh for his previous two world middleweight title fights?

So Mr. fact checker. Are you denying that Canelo's team said that he was too small for middleweight so until he grew into it they would be having fights at 155?

I’m not answering your question until you admit to being wrong about you claiming Canelo made multiple fighters fight at 155lbs for his world middleweight title bouts.

Because otherwise, all you’re trying to do, by changing the subject matter, is employ red herring diversionary (dishonest debating) tactics to distract others from picking up on your mistake.

[tiny_acres]

What did Miguel Cotto weigh for his previous two world middleweight title fights?

So Mr. fact checker. Are you denying that Canelo's team said that he was too small for middleweight so until he grew into it they would be having fights at 155?

I’m not answering your question until you admit to being wrong about you claiming Canelo made multiple fighters fight at 155lbs for his world middleweight title bouts.

Because otherwise, all you’re trying to do, by changing the subject matter, is employ red herring diversionary (dishonest debating) tactics to distract others from picking up on your mistake.

Dude talk about dishonest.
Canelo forced fighters into catch weights.
Simple you can not deny this
Talk about a red herring.

[tiny_acres]

What did Miguel Cotto weigh for his previous two world middleweight title fights?

So Mr. fact checker. Are you denying that Canelo's team said that he was too small for middleweight so until he grew into it they would be having fights at 155?

I’m not answering your question until you admit to being wrong about you claiming Canelo made multiple fighters fight at 155lbs for his world middleweight title bouts.

Because otherwise, all you’re trying to do, by changing the subject matter, is employ red herring diversionary (dishonest debating) tactics to distract others from picking up on your mistake.

And read my initial comment that started this.
In 2016 he made every opponent weigh no more that 155 which is a fact.
You can not dispute my initial comment and refuse to address what I said and what I said was a fact

[Enlightened-One]

Dude talk about dishonest.
Canelo forced fighters into catch weights.
Simple you can not deny this
Talk about a red herring.

Why do you regularly want me to admit to being proven "wrong", when you cannot defend the following claim?

The FACT of the matter is he made fighters weigh 155 for middleweight title bouts, when the universal weight limit for that division is 160. That is a fact.

By your own admission, apart from Amir Khan, you can't name another fighter that was forced by Canelo to compete at 155lbs for a world middleweight title bout.

If you want to change the topic, because you're annoyed about being unable to defend your original stance, then fair enough... I'll let you desperately search for other ways to undermine Canelo.

In terms of your other comment:

And read my initial comment that started this.
In 2016 he made every opponent weigh no more that 155 which is a fact.
You can not dispute my initial comment and refuse to address what I said and what I said was a fact

Canelo fought Liam Smith at 154lbs for a world super-welterweight title.

And Amir Khan at 155lbs, which we've already discussed at length.

Do you have any other reason to attack Canelo during 2015 or 2016 other than for the Amir Khan fight?

[tiny_acres]

Dude talk about dishonest.
Canelo forced fighters into catch weights.
Simple you can not deny this
Talk about a red herring.

Why do you regularly want me to admit to being proven "wrong", when you cannot defend the following claim?

The FACT of the matter is he made fighters weigh 155 for middleweight title bouts, when the universal weight limit for that division is 160. That is a fact.

By your own admission, apart from Amir Khan, you can't name another fighter that was forced by Canelo to compete at 155lbs for a world middleweight title bout.

If you want to change the topic, because you're annoyed about being unable to defend your original stance, then fair enough... I'll let you desperately search for other ways to undermine Canelo.

Can you read???
The comment I made was 2016 in response to someone else.
ALL of Canelo's fights in 2016 were catchweights of 155
THAT IS WHAT I SAID AND THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!

[Counter-puncher]

what a pure vagina

[tiny_acres]

what a pure vagina

He will not admit what I stated was a simple fact.
Might as well beat my head against the wall than to have a debate with a moron

[Enlightened-One]

ALL of Canelo's fights in 2016 were catchweights of 155
THAT IS WHAT I SAID AND THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!

Canelo fought Liam Smith during 2016 at 154lbs for a world super-welterweight title.

THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!

[Counter-puncher]

what a pure vagina

He will not admit what I stated was a simple fact.
Might as well beat my head against the wall than to have a debate with a moron

BUT CANELO DIDN'T FORCE ANYONE TO WEIGH IN AT 155LBS


By Dan Ambrose: At Friday's weigh-in, a slightly weight drained Saul “Canelo” Alvarez (45-1-1, 32 KOs) weighed in at 155lbs on the dot for his catch-weight fight at 155 pounds for non-title fight against Miguel Cotto (40-4, 33 KOs) for their fight on Saturday night at the Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino in Las Vegas, ...20 Nov 2015

Weights: Cotto 153.5, Canelo 155 - Boxing News 24

[Enlightened-One]

what a pure vagina

He will not admit what I stated was a simple fact.
Might as well beat my head against the wall than to have a debate with a moron

BUT CANELO DIDN'T FORCE ANYONE TO WEIGH IN AT 155LBS


By Dan Ambrose: At Friday's weigh-in, a slightly weight drained Saul “Canelo” Alvarez (45-1-1, 32 KOs) weighed in at 155lbs on the dot for his catch-weight fight at 155 pounds for non-title fight against Miguel Cotto (40-4, 33 KOs) for their fight on Saturday night at the Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino in Las Vegas, ...20 Nov 2015

Weights: Cotto 153.5, Canelo 155 - Boxing News 24

What did Miguel Cotto weigh for his previous two world middleweight title fights (prior to facing Canelo)?

[Enlightened-One]

I think people want to be revisionist historians, believing in things that never happened in this version of reality!!!

Canelo fought Liam Smith at 154lbs for a world super-welterweight title.

Miguel Cotto forced Sergio Martinez and Daniel Geale to engage in catchweight bouts, with the Pueto Rican weighing 155lbs or less, for the two world middleweight title fights he engaged in immediately prior to facing Canelo at 155lbs!!!

Apparently the same people refuse to believe either of those real-world historical events happened!!!

[Counter-puncher]

somewhere in internet land, a vagina coughs out some more of that sand