Dmitry Bivol vs. Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez II - Who wins?

[margaret thatcher]

if anyone says canelo will do better but still lose............remember that bivol never had a lead on the cards until the end of the 11th

if canelo really does better, he's prob gonna win

[Mexi-Box]

At 168, I think Canelo KO. Bivol never made that weight before. Getting shades of Dawson/Ward now. They prettyuch just gave Canelo what he wanted here.

The whole thing doesn't make sense, but Canelo money can make you do stupid things. Maybe Bivol is just calling Canelo's bluff, like he did last year.
Hell, Andre Ward would probably come back at 168 for Canelo money.

I hate it, but Bivol wants those belts. Reminds me so much of Chad Dawson. This could be career suicide if goes wrong. I'm hoping it won't be the case, but Dawson also said he could make 168 easily.

[Mexi-Box]

if anyone says canelo will do better but still lose............remember that bivol never had a lead on the cards until the end of the 11th

if canelo really does better, he's prob gonna win

This too! And at 168 it's going to look like the ball is right back in Canelo's court. Stupid move by Bivol imo, but as Bandog says, Bivol will make nowhere near this money fighting Beterbiev/Smith on ESPN+ or whatever.

[KiwiRider]

Great question!
Rematches are not really Canelo's thing. And neither are avenging losses.
So can he adjust to what was (on my card) a 10-2 decision loss?
I don't think he can, not after losing ten rounds. But according to the judges he only had to win a few more rounds

So my answer is- yes he can win on the cards, but probably not in reality, but it will be closer.

[Bandog]

Great question!
Rematches are not really Canelo's thing. And neither are avenging losses.
So can he adjust to what was (on my card) a 10-2 decision loss?
I don't think he can, not after losing ten rounds. But according to the judges he only had to win a few more rounds

So my answer is- yes he can win on the cards, but probably not in reality, but it will be closer.

"But not in reality" True. You have to remember...Canelo thought he won the fight? His team and promoters agreed. Wtf. He reminds me of a delusional rich kid that has only been told what he wants to hear. He'll never get better with that. He may benefit from new trainers. Seriously.

[Mexi-Box]

Great question!
Rematches are not really Canelo's thing. And neither are avenging losses.
So can he adjust to what was (on my card) a 10-2 decision loss?
I don't think he can, not after losing ten rounds. But according to the judges he only had to win a few more rounds

So my answer is- yes he can win on the cards, but probably not in reality, but it will be closer.

He only needed 2 rounds to get a draw. I mean in the realm of possibility, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he won rounds 1-3 and the 9th. It's doable, and he does improve fight to fight. I mean people thought he beat Golovkin clear in the second fight.

[RScarf1]

I saw an interview on YouTube and Bivol was unsure that he could make 168. It seems to me that Canelo wants that to be the weight for the rematch, so does Bivol have a choice to reject it even though there is a rematch clause in the contract? Or perhaps Bivol is willing to accept these terms because of the money that he will make? I don't think Bivol had any previous aspirations of becoming a super middleweight champion because he never was at that weight in his entire pro career.

[gregregegg]

I expect canelo to be a bit lighter and less power hunting in the rematch, and be ready for bivol throwing combos, which was a bit of a suprise to me in the first, normaly a bit more 1-2 or 1-1-2, also needs to slip some jabs rather than letting em all through his high guard. If he makes those adjustments it should be a much closer fight.

Which means it comes down to judging.... If Caenlo is just a bit better with these kinds of judges he wins. If canelo is just a bit better with fair judges he still loses.

If I am bivol im trying to get this rematch to the middle east... dont like the idea of USA judges a 2nd time round.

[KiwiRider]

I saw an interview on YouTube and Bivol was unsure that he could make 168. It seems to me that Canelo wants that to be the weight for the rematch, so does Bivol have a choice to reject it even though there is a rematch clause in the contract? Or perhaps Bivol is willing to accept these terms because of the money that he will make? I don't think Bivol had any previous aspirations of becoming a super middleweight champion because he never was at that weight in his entire pro career.

It's Bivol's belt, he is the LHW champion. He can just play by the rules, Canelo ain't God.

[RScarf1]

I saw an interview on YouTube and Bivol was unsure that he could make 168. It seems to me that Canelo wants that to be the weight for the rematch, so does Bivol have a choice to reject it even though there is a rematch clause in the contract? Or perhaps Bivol is willing to accept these terms because of the money that he will make? I don't think Bivol had any previous aspirations of becoming a super middleweight champion because he never was at that weight in his entire pro career.

It's Bivol's belt, he is the LHW champion. He can just play by the rules, Canelo ain't God.

I thought about that, but I haven't read the contract. I don't know if the rematch clause allows Canelo to make the choice of whether a rematch would be at 168 or 175.

[gregregegg]

I doubt they could force a rematch at 168, unless its in the rematch clause which would be pretty wild to include in that, and even then if bivol publicly said he didnt think fighting at 168 was safe for him, i highly doubt they would try force it.

But, its one of those "carrot or the stick" situations, mabey they cant force new weight restrictions, But if canelo offered them 20 million to fight at 169, take it or leave it, be a hard one to refuse.

(note, i doubt canelo wants it at 168, that risks his belts and gains him no belts, much more likely to go for 169 or 170 CW/LHW)

(2nd note, I doubt canelo tries to change the weight, if he decides LHW is not for him right now, he goes back to 168 and fight GGG, no shame in that. It looks more cowardly to fight a weaken'd version of the guy you lost to, than to just not fight him.)

[RScarf1]

I doubt they could force a rematch at 168, unless its in the rematch clause which would be pretty wild to include in that, and even then if bivol publicly said he didnt think fighting at 168 was safe for him, i highly doubt they would try force it.

But, its one of those "carrot or the stick" situations, mabey they cant force new weight restrictions, But if canelo offered them 20 million to fight at 169, take it or leave it, be a hard one to refuse.

(note, i doubt canelo wants it at 168, that risks his belts and gains him no belts, much more likely to go for 169 or 170 CW/LHW)

(2nd note, I doubt canelo tries to change the weight, if he decides LHW is not for him right now, he goes back to 168 and fight GGG, no shame in that. It looks more cowardly to fight a weaken'd version of the guy you lost to, than to just not fight him.)

Good points. Canelo would be risking his belts if he fights Golovkin at 168, but I think Golovkin will be Canelo's next opponent.

[Ruthless-RKO]

iT would depend it weight was stipulated in the clause.

[Enlightened-One]

I doubt they could force a rematch at 168, unless its in the rematch clause which would be pretty wild to include in that, and even then if bivol publicly said he didnt think fighting at 168 was safe for him, i highly doubt they would try force it.

Dmitry Bivol actually said it would be “good” to rematch Canelo at 168lbs for all four super-middleweight titles. He claims it wasn’t a problem, because he’s not a big light heavyweight.

The Russian has been claiming for several years his capability to compete at 168lbs.

Bivol also said he was hoping to negotiate improved terms for the rematch.

And I can only assume that agreeing to face Canelo again at 168lbs would strengthen his position at the negotiation table, providing the Mexican with a compelling reason to agree to Bivol’s financial stipulations (i.e. a much better purse to compete at 168lbs rather than 175lbs).

[gregregegg]

I doubt they could force a rematch at 168, unless its in the rematch clause which would be pretty wild to include in that, and even then if bivol publicly said he didnt think fighting at 168 was safe for him, i highly doubt they would try force it.

Dmitry Bivol actually said it would be “good” to rematch Canelo at 168lbs for all four super-middleweight titles. He claims it wasn’t a problem, because he’s not a big light heavyweight.

The Russian has been claiming for several years his capability to compete at 168lbs.

Bivol also said he was hoping to negotiate improved terms for the rematch.

And I can only assume that agreeing to face Canelo again at 168lbs would strengthen his position at the negotiation table, providing the Mexican with a compelling reason to agree to Bivol’s financial stipulations (i.e. a much better purse to compete at 168lbs rather than 175lbs).

I think he could make 168 too, and id rather gamble canelos belts than my belts if i were him. my point is about being forced,
and i think that seems unlikely.

If its at 168 though, it should only be canelos belts on the line though... i think tank vs leo they put the 130 and 135 belt on the line, i dont agree with that.

should never fight for a 175 belt when your forced to make any weight other than 175. I think sanctioning bodys should ban all weight ristrictions other than there own in title fights. be easy to do and it would stop A-side libertys like catch weight and hydration clauses.

[apollo creed]

I'd like to see Canelo avenging his loss vs Bivol at 175 lbs in rematch, period! No 168 or cw! No ancient Golovkin 3rd fight!

If Canelo wants to come lighter then its ok. As game plan I think Canelo should use his jab more& effectively, angles, counters, movement, pretty much like FMJ was fighting.

As for Bivol, if he wants to come down at 168 , he should learn from Chad Dowson's wrong move. But then again this is a different situations than Dawson in terms of big payday. If Canelo makes to Bivol a very good money offer to fight him at 168 for all the titles, then its a good business, but also Bivol should acknowledge that he may not be the same fighter in terms of strenghts moving back at 175.


Anyway, money talks and pay the bills.

All I want to see from Canelo are great fights with Bivol, Beterbiev-Smith winner and of course Usyk-AJ winner.

[joshj909]

I think if Bivol can make 168 then unless contractually obliged, it would only be fair that the rematch is at 168. A rubber could be at 175 again.

[Enlightened-One]

Dmitry Bivol facing Canelo at 168lbs is a win-win situation for the Russian.

He is physically capable of competing effectively at that weight and he can probably negotiate a better payday at the lower weight class.

And if Bivol loses, people will say he was weight drained and being forced to “fight small”. Fans will inevitably discredit Canelo’s win. Dmitry will be considered by many as still “unbeaten” in their eyes.

If Bivol wins, he becomes the undisputed super-middleweight champion, probably the pound-for-pound ruler and he'll start commanding massive paydays, especially if he goes on to beat the eventual victor of Beterbiev-Smith Jr.

Either scenario is a losing situation for Canelo, with the latter being disastrous for the Mexican’s career.

If Canelo rematches Bivol at 175lbs again and loses, people will say he dared to be great, but was simply beaten by a bigger man. He can continue the remainder of his career dominating the 168lbs division.

And that’s the reason why I think the rematch will be held at 175lbs, because Canelo loses most of his credibility if he tastes defeat at 168lbs. He won't have an excuse for losing to Bivol at super-middleweight.

[Ezzard]

Bivol is too good. Alvarez was convincingly beaten. He should go back to 168 and entice fighters to move up from 160 for him. He can be the boss there for a while yet.

[JamesPhilips]

if anyone says canelo will do better but still lose............remember that bivol never had a lead on the cards until the end of the 11th

if canelo really does better, he's prob gonna win

What a travesty…..

[Cent0089]

Canelo can make an adjustments, but so can Bivol. Bivol will probably win again in similar fashion. Alvarez toughness, strength and sick defense and rope and dope skills will prevent him from any danger of stoppage, but his offensive arsenal did not have enough tools to handle Bivol boxing skills, which are very basic, but performed flawlessly at highest level by a man who was 100% ready and 100% hungry . On the other hand, if canelo wn rematch we should not be surprised, he was number one P4P for a reason. No boxing no life , looking forward to nxt fights of both these fighters

[apollo creed]

Dmitry Bivol facing Canelo at 168lbs is a win-win situation for the Russian.

He is physically capable of competing effectively at that weight and he can probably negotiate a better payday at the lower weight class.

And if Bivol loses, people will say he was weight drained and being forced to “fight small”. Fans will inevitably discredit Canelo’s win. Dmitry will be considered by many as still “unbeaten” in their eyes.

If Bivol wins, he becomes the undisputed super-middleweight champion, probably the pound-for-pound ruler and he'll start commanding massive paydays, especially if he goes on to beat the eventual victor of Beterbiev-Smith Jr.

Either scenario is a losing situation for Canelo, with the latter being disastrous for the Mexican’s career.

If Canelo rematches Bivol at 175lbs again and loses, people will say he dared to be great, but was simply beaten by a bigger man. He can continue the remainder of his career dominating the 168lbs division.

And that’s the reason why I think the rematch will be held at 175lbs, because Canelo loses most of his credibility if he tastes defeat at 168lbs. He won't have an excuse for losing to Bivol at super-middleweight.

Even if the fight would be close or controversial @168 and Canelo would get the win , it would not look that good on his resume. So 175 is daring to be great for Canelo.

[Ruthless-RKO]

There are some websites whose P4P ranking hasn’t changed.

Bivol has entered the top 10, however, Canelo remains #1.

There are some who have dropped him to #2.

[apollo creed]

Canelo si still the kingpin. You know why? Bc he dares to take risky challenges and be great.

Canelo could've stayed at 168 fighting lesser opposition and make good money too.


First lets see guys like Charlo, Benavidez, Andrade, Eubank Jr, Ryder and Munguia fighting each other.

[Enlightened-One]

There are some websites whose P4P ranking hasn’t changed.

Bivol has entered the top 10, however, Canelo remains #1.

There are some who have dropped him to #2.

Canelo is rated 4th by ESPN, 5th by TBRB and 6th by The RING.

Dmitry Bivol is rated 8th by ESPN, 9th by TBRB and 8th by The RING.