Best of the decade—1970s

[elmersalsa]

Duran was the best of the 1970s. He beat 9 world class opponents.

WTKO10 Ernesto "Nato" Marcel: Marcel beat the great Alexis Arguello in a title defense in Panama City in 1974. He retires undefeated champion after the fight.

WTKO13 Ken Buchanan: Buchanan was considered as the best pound per pound fighter of the time. He already won the Scottish, British Empire and World Lightweight championships. He beat Ismael Laguna, an all-time Lightweight great. Buchanan is one of the top 20 greatest lightweights, believe it or not. He later won the European Lightweight championship when he beat Jim Watt.

WTKO8 Hector Thompson: Thompson was a rough and tough opponent that gave Duran one of his toughest fights. He was Australian Jr. Welterweight and Lightweight Champion.

WTKO8 Guts Ishimatsu: He was WBC World Lightweight Champion. He beat Ken Buchanan and Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez

WKO11 Esteban De Jesus: DeJesus took Duran's undefeated record. After that, Duran did not lose in 41 straight bouts. De Jesus was in a 18-fight win streak at the time. Not impressed? Well, he won the Puerto Rican, NABF and WBC World Lightweight Championships. That means, like Buchanan, he was champion in all levels of pro competition.

WKO14 Ray Lampkin: Lampkin was NABF Lightweight Champion. He gave Duran one of his toughest fights.

W10 Saoul Mamby: Mamby became WBC World Lightweight Champion.

WKO13 Vilomar Fernandez: Fernandez later beat the great Alexis Arguello by Unanimous Decision in 10 rounds.

W10 Carlos Palomino: Duran proved that he was a force at Welterweight by dominating the former WBC Welterweight Champion by decision in 10 rounds. Palomino was good enough that defended his title 8 times.

So, Duran in the 70s decade beat some formidable and fantastic opposition. He reigned for 7 years as World Lightweight Champion and made 12 title defenses. Eleven of them by knockout. The first 12 championship fights, Duran won all his fights by knockout.

The Super Bantamweight, nor featherweight nor the jr. Lightweight and not even the Jr Welterweight champion King wanted anything with Duran. So, Manos de Piedra had to jump to 2 weight classes to get a decent fight?

By the end of the 70s decade, Duran was already considered by the American media as the greatest Lightweight of all time, bar none! Had he retired, he was considered an all-time pound per pound great and a hall of fame boxer.

By the end of the decade, Duran was voted by most boxing writers as the Fighter of the 1970s decade.

[elmersalsa]

Yeah, that really compares to beating Foreman, Frazier, Lyle, Norton, Quarry, etc.
Or Griffith, Bevenuti, Napoles, Briscoe, and Valdez.

Ali lost the biggest fight of his career with Smokin' Joe

In many people's view, Ali lost 3 times to Ken Norton

Duran would have never lost to a 7-fight amateur in Leon Spinks.

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson.

Duran was almost flawless in the 70s.

Case closed.

[elmersalsa]

Nothing to sneeze at; but they are nowhere near Foreman and Frazier.
Yes he is a top 5 lightweight, no doubt about it.

Frazier was already over the hill when he lost to Ali. Ali never beat Frazier at Frazier's best.

[elmersalsa]

Yeah, that really compares to beating Foreman, Frazier, Lyle, Norton, Quarry, etc.
Or Griffith, Bevenuti, Napoles, Briscoe, and Valdez.

Ken Norton, Jerry Quarry, Ron Lyle were not better than Ken Buchanan nor Ernesto Marcel.

I could say that Esteban De Jesus was better than the guys mentioned above.

As for Carlos Monzon, he didn't had more than 30 fights in the 70s decade.

Emile Griffith was over the hill.
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles was 34 and close to being washed up

Nino Benvenutti? I see him in the same breath as Buchanan.

Bennie Briscoe and De Jesus was about equal. I give De Jesus the nod.

Buchanan and De Jesus and Carlos Palomino were better than Rocky Valdez.

[Ambling Alp II]

Ken Norton was better than them.
Joe Frazier was still in his prime when Ali beat him.
Palomino was over the hill.
Mamby lost a bout a zillion fights. Big win was over you guessed it DeJesus.
Jimmy Young certainly did not give Ali a boxing lesson. He did virtually nothing offensively.

Ray Lampkin? NABF champion. He beat a guy with a losing record to win that joke of a title. That he gave Duran a tough fight is an argument against Duran.

Hector Thompson. He gave Duran a tough fight. Again an argument against Duran.

Ali was better than Duran from 1970-1975. That is six years of the 10.

Duran had nothing that remotely compares to beating George Foreman.

So what if Duran had more wins than Monzon. Most of them were against tomato cans that nobody ever hear of.

Case Closed. (See how I did that. I can do that too!)

[elmersalsa]

Ken Norton was better than them.
Joe Frazier was still in his prime when Ali beat him.
Palomino was over the hill.
Mamby lost a bout a zillion fights. Big win was over you guessed it DeJesus.
Jimmy Young certainly did not give Ali a boxing lesson. He did virtually nothing offensively.

Ray Lampkin? NABF champion. He beat a guy with a losing record to win that joke of a title. That he gave Duran a tough fight is an argument against Duran.

Hector Thompson. He gave Duran a tough fight. Again an argument against Duran.

Ali was better than Duran from 1970-1975. That is six years of the 10.

Duran had nothing that remotely compares to beating George Foreman.

So what if Duran had more wins than Monzon. Most of them were against tomato cans that nobody ever hear of.

Case Closed. (See how I did that. I can do that too!)

You don't know nothing about boxing. Just because a guy never make it to the top 100 greatest boxers pound per pound of all-time doesn't mean that he wasn't any good.

George Foreman became an all-time great heavyweight when he came back after a ten-year layoff and got a piece of the heavyweight title. Before that, Foreman was considered a brute and a bully. He wasn't even a top 10 all-time great heavyweight when Jimmy Young schooled his ass into retirement.

I could say that between Ken Buchanan and Foreman, that Buchanan was better and accomplished much more than Foreman.

It was after Foreman came back from a ten year layoff and win a piece of the title that he became an all-time great. He wasn't an all-time great by any means when he retired.

Carlos Palomino was not over the hill. He was coming from a loss against the great Wilfred Benitez. And some people believe that he won that fight. Duran schooled him and dominated him for 10 rounds.

Jimmy Young gave a Ali a boxing lesson. Anyone could see that. Only the Ali fans failed to admitted.

Edwin Viruet played the clown and lost to Duran. He never schooled Duran, but Jimmy Young did.

I can't see a seven-fight amateur beating a Roberto Duran even in his twilight years. Ali lost to a seven fight amateur.

Case closed. Duran was better

[Ambling Alp II]

Viruet played the clown, (he had the gall to use foot movement) but Jimmy Young putting his head through the rope multiple times wasn't acting the clown? Wow.

Some people thought Palomino should have got the decision against Benitez? What are you talking about?
Most people thought Benitez won convincingly. Never heard of one person saying Palomino should have got the decision.

How about ranking Duran's top 10 opponents in the 1970s. Should be an awesome list. Look forward to seeing it.

[elmersalsa]

Viruet played the clown, (he had the gall to use foot movement) but Jimmy Young putting his head through the rope multiple times wasn't acting the clown? Wow.

Some people thought Palomino should have got the decision against Benitez? What are you talking about?
Most people thought Benitez won convincingly. Never heard of one person saying Palomino should have gotten the decision.

How about ranking Duran's top 10 opponents in the 1970s. Should be an awesome list. Look forward to seeing it.

Duran's opposition in the 70s decade was a respectable one. He fought what was in front of him. Even guys that don't like him agree that he fought some good people in the 70s decade.

Not too many champions had the luxury to fight great fighters in their reign. Ask the great Archie Moore. Ask the great Tommy Ryan. Ask the great Wilfredo Gomez, Eder Jofre, and a whole lot of great champions. Even Ali's first reign in the 60s didn't had great challengers. Ask Sugar Ray Robinson's about his title defenses at Welterweight. How many of them aside of the great Kid Gavilan were great?

I said that some people, not many, thought that Carlos Palomino beat the great Wilfred Benitez. They felt that Benitez won because it was a hometown decision. As a matter of fact, Benitez won by a split decision. One judge saw Palomino win.

And Jimmy Young did schooled Ali. He gave Ali a boxing lesson. Edwin Viruet played the clown against Duran. You don't win by being the clown. You win by fighting like Esteban De Jesus did.

Muhammad Ali's record in the 70s decade was 27-3, 14KOs. But, in reality should have been 24-6, 14KOs.

Carlos Monzon record in the 70s decade was 25-0, 18KOs.


Roberto Duran's record in the 70s decade was 54-1, with 41KOs! He had more knockouts than Ali's and Monzon's knockout wins combined!

Case closed. Duran's the greatest fighter of the 70s decade.

[elmersalsa]

Roberto Duran in 70s decade had more wins than Muhammad Ali and Carlos Monzon wins combined.

What a fighter! A true all-time great indeed. Had he retired in 1979, he would have still be considered by boxing experts as the greatest Lightweight ever and a hall of Famer. And he probably would have been in the top 20 fighters pound per pound ever.

I have never seen in my lifetime a champion like Duran. Before him, I see most of the Lightweight champions get challenged by champions from lower classes. When he was there as Lightweight champion for 7 long years, NOT EVEN A CHAMPION from lower classes challenged him!

I saw the great Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles challenging the great Carlos Monzon. I see the great Bob Foster challenging Muhammad Ali. I saw Carlos Zarate, Bantamweight champ, challenging Wilfredo Gomez, a Super Bantamweight champ.

Why no Super Bantamweight, nor featherweight nor jr Lightweight champion ever challenged Duran? Think about that.

Now, when Duran leaves the Lightweight class, I saw all kinds of challenges. Do I have to mention it? Nope.

[goose 5]

You guys are raising great points and counter points- fantastic thread !

[The Balletic Bomber]

Roberto Duran in 70s decade had more wins than Muhammad Ali and Carlos Monzon wins combined.

What a fighter! A true all-time great indeed. Had he retired in 1979, he would have still be considered by boxing experts as the greatest Lightweight ever and a hall of Famer. And he probably would have been in the top 20 fighters pound per pound ever.

I have never seen in my lifetime a champion like Duran. Before him, I see most of the Lightweight champions get challenged by champions from lower classes. When he was there as Lightweight champion for 7 long years, NOT EVEN A CHAMPION from lower classes challenged him!

I saw the great Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles challenging the great Carlos Monzon. I see the great Bob Foster challenging Muhammad Ali. I saw Carlos Zarate, Bantamweight champ, challenging Wilfredo Gomez, a Super Bantamweight champ.

Why no Super Bantamweight, nor featherweight nor jr Lightweight champion ever challenged Duran? Think about that.

Now, when Duran leaves the Lightweight class, I saw all kinds of challenges. Do I have to mention it? Nope.

Such passion, elmersalsa!

[The Balletic Bomber]

You guys are raising great points and counter points- fantastic thread !

Amen to that. If elmersalsa feels that someone is slighting Roberto Duran he comes out swinging. Ambling Alp is a bit less impressed by Roberto.—Mark

[Ambling Alp II]

elmer is passionate. If he likes a guy, he will do that. If he doesn't, then no.

Yes I am less impressed. Great fighter. Just not as great as elmer says.
Does anyone really impressed about beating Ray Lampkin? Hector Thompson?
Take a look at some of the guys Duran was fighting when he padded his record.
Viruet hits Duran an moves and somehow thats "clowning."
Jimmy Young actually sticks his head to the ropes several times and somehow thats not clowning.
He claims many people thought Palomino should have got the decision against Benitez. That's BS. Outside of one judge, I have never heard of anyone claiming that. Notice elmer himself isn't even claiming it.

He could say that Ken Buchanan was better than George Foreman. do we really have to argue that one?

Yes Ali was past it by the end of the decade. But he did so much before that. It dwarfs what Duran did.
Yes Duran had a better win/loss record. But as just about everyone knows, win/loss records can be very deceiving in boxing. I can throw out numbers too.

How many fights did Ali have over Hall of Famers in the 1970s? 7.
How many did Monzon have? 5
How many did Duran have? 2.

[The Balletic Bomber]

elmer is passionate. If he likes a guy, he will do that. If he doesn't, then no.

Yes I am less impressed. Great fighter. Just not as great as elmer says.
Does anyone really impressed about beating Ray Lampkin? Hector Thompson?
Take a look at some of the guys Duran was fighting when he padded his record.
Viruet hits Duran an moves and somehow thats "clowning."
Jimmy Young actually sticks his head to the ropes several times and somehow thats not clowning.
He claims many people thought Palomino should have got the decision against Benitez. That's BS. Outside of one judge, I have never heard of anyone claiming that. Notice elmer himself isn't even claiming it.

He could say that Ken Buchanan was better than George Foreman. do we really have to argue that one?

Yes Ali was past it by the end of the decade. But he did so much before that. It dwarfs what Duran did.
Yes Duran had a better win/loss record. But as just about everyone knows, win/loss records can be very deceiving in boxing. I can throw out numbers too.

How many fights did Ali have over Hall of Famers in the 1970s? 7.
How many did Monzon have? 5
How many did Duran have? 2.

But Ambling, while I agree with an earlier post of yours that Ali defeated better competition than Duran in the 70s, I feel than Duran was the better fighter that decade. And I’m not including Ali’s bouts from 1976 on. Muhammad was badly fading later in the 1970s. Just watching their fights at their best that decade I consider Duran the better fighter. Now, if you include the 1960s Ali into the equation, I rank Ali higher. In the 70s alone, Duran was greater. Now, I love Ali. I watched him growing up in the late 1970s and he is my second favorite boxer of all time after Sugar Ray Leonard.
I didn’t care for his insults directed toward Joe Frazier and his reprehensible comments calling Frazier a gorilla. Just as I didn’t care for Roberto Duran always using poor conditioning as an excuse after defeats, instead of simply saying that the better man won that night.
Even though I have a lot more emotional attachment to Ali, Roberto Duran, in my humble opinion, was the best of the decade.

[elmersalsa]

elmer is passionate. If he likes a guy, he will do that. If he doesn't, then no.

Yes I am less impressed. Great fighter. Just not as great as elmer says.
Does anyone really impressed about beating Ray Lampkin? Hector Thompson?
Take a look at some of the guys Duran was fighting when he padded his record.
Viruet hits Duran an moves and somehow thats "clowning."
Jimmy Young actually sticks his head to the ropes several times and somehow thats not clowning.
He claims many people thought Palomino should have got the decision against Benitez. That's BS. Outside of one judge, I have never heard of anyone claiming that. Notice elmer himself isn't even claiming it.

He could say that Ken Buchanan was better than George Foreman. do we really have to argue that one?

Yes Ali was past it by the end of the decade. But he did so much before that. It dwarfs what Duran did.
Yes Duran had a better win/loss record. But as just about everyone knows, win/loss records can be very deceiving in boxing. I can throw out numbers too.

How many fights did Ali have over Hall of Famers in the 1970s? 7.
How many did Monzon have? 5
How many did Duran have? 2.

But Ambling, while I agree with an earlier post of yours that Ali defeated better competition than Duran in the 70s, I feel than Duran was the better fighter that decade. And I’m not including Ali’s bouts from 1976 on. Muhammad was badly fading later in the 1970s. Just watching their fights at their best that decade I consider Duran the better fighter. Now, if you include the 1960s Ali into the equation, I rank Ali higher. In the 70s alone, Duran was greater. Now, I love Ali. I watched him growing up in the late 1970s and he is my second favorite boxer of all time after Sugar Ray Leonard.
I didn’t care for his insults directed toward Joe Frazier and his reprehensible comments calling Frazier a gorilla. Just as I didn’t care for Roberto Duran always using poor conditioning as an excuse after defeats, instead of simply saying that the better man won that night.
Even though I have a lot more emotional attachment to Ali, Roberto Duran, in my humble opinion, was the best of the decade.

Well said, my brother!

[The Balletic Bomber]

elmer is passionate. If he likes a guy, he will do that. If he doesn't, then no.

Yes I am less impressed. Great fighter. Just not as great as elmer says.
Does anyone really impressed about beating Ray Lampkin? Hector Thompson?
Take a look at some of the guys Duran was fighting when he padded his record.
Viruet hits Duran an moves and somehow thats "clowning."
Jimmy Young actually sticks his head to the ropes several times and somehow thats not clowning.
He claims many people thought Palomino should have got the decision against Benitez. That's BS. Outside of one judge, I have never heard of anyone claiming that. Notice elmer himself isn't even claiming it.

He could say that Ken Buchanan was better than George Foreman. do we really have to argue that one?

Yes Ali was past it by the end of the decade. But he did so much before that. It dwarfs what Duran did.
Yes Duran had a better win/loss record. But as just about everyone knows, win/loss records can be very deceiving in boxing. I can throw out numbers too.

How many fights did Ali have over Hall of Famers in the 1970s? 7.
How many did Monzon have? 5
How many did Duran have? 2.

Even though I have a lot more emotional attachment to Ali, Roberto Duran, in my humble opinion, was the best of the decade.

Well said, my brother!

Thanks you, my friend! In the 1970s, Duran was hands down the greatest fighter of the decade.

[elmersalsa]

Even though I have a lot more emotional attachment to Ali, Roberto Duran, in my humble opinion, was the best of the decade.

Well said, my brother!

Thanks you, my friend! In the 1970s, Duran was hands down the greatest fighter of the decade.

Yes, indeed!

The best fighter of each decade in my view:
1880s: Peter Jackson
1890s: Bob Fitzsimmons
1900s: Sam Langford
1910s: Jimmy Wilde
1920s: Harry Greb
1930s: Henry Armstrong
1940s: Ezzard Charles
1950s: Sugar Ray Robinson
1960s: Muhammad Ali
1970s: Roberto Duran
1980s: Sugar Ray Leonard
1990s: Pernell Whitaker
2000s: Manny Pacquiao
2010s: Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
2020s: so far for me is Tyson Fury or Terrance Crawford

[The Balletic Bomber]

Well said, my brother!

Thanks you, my friend! In the 1970s, Duran was hands down the greatest fighter of the decade.

Yes, indeed!

The best fighter of each decade in my view:
1880s: Peter Jackson
1890s: Bob Fitzsimmons
1900s: Sam Langford
1910s: Jimmy Wilde
1920s: Harry Greb
1930s: Henry Armstrong
1940s: Ezzard Charles
1950s: Sugar Ray Robinson
1960s: Muhammad Ali
1970s: Roberto Duran
1980s: Sugar Ray Leonard
1990s: Pernell Whitaker
2000s: Manny Pacquiao
2010s: Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
2020s: so far for me is Tyson Fury or Terrance Crawford

I still believe in Vasily Lomachenko!

[The Balletic Bomber]

I would agree with your decade by decade ranking except I would say Robinson in the 40s and Roy Jones in the 90s.

[goose 5]

To me, on paper, Ali is the best of the 70's but on video it's Duran.

[The Balletic Bomber]

To me, on paper, Ali is the best of the 70's but on video it's Duran.

Goose 5, how right you are. Sorry, Ambling.

[Ambling Alp II]

On video, Ali was better from 1970-1975. Of course that is a matter of opinion. Duran was great when he had an opponent right in front of him. If the was able to move well, then it was a different story. fortunately for him, he didn't have to deal with often. Might be a reason why Duran fans never talk about the Viruet fight.

Yes Ali was better in the 1960s than the early-mid 1970s. But we have to put that out of the equation. He had to deal with not better opponents than Duran, but a wider variety.

We talk about Duran's win/loss record. Well, there are several other lightweights who could have done that or even gone undefeated. Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Henry Armstrong etc. Does anyone really believe Pernell Whitaker would have lost to anyone that Duran fought during this time?

[elmersalsa]

On video, Ali was better from 1970-1975. Of course that is a matter of opinion. Duran was great when he had an opponent right in front of him. If the was able to move well, then it was a different story. fortunately for him, he didn't have to deal with often. Might be a reason why Duran fans never talk about the Viruet fight.

Yes Ali was better in the 1960s than the early-mid 1970s. But we have to put that out of the equation. He had to deal with not better opponents than Duran, but a wider variety.

We talk about Duran's win/loss record. Well, there are several other lightweights who could have done that or even gone undefeated. Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Henry Armstrong etc. Does anyone really believe Pernell Whitaker would have lost to anyone that Duran fought during this time?

The great Pernell Whitaker would have lost to Esteban De Jesus and Ken Buchanan in any given night. They were not cakewalks. Those two are top 20 all-time great lightweights.

Muhammad Ali, great fighter, but to say he had better opponents than Roberto Duran IS NOT TRUE to anyone that sees the opposition of both fighters closely.

George Foreman became great AFTER he came back from a ten-year retirement. Before his comeback, he was considered a bully, a brute fighter with a great punch. Jimmy Young gave him a boxing lesson. Young gave Ali a boxing lesson.

Joe Frazier was already damaged by the brutal knockout that Big George gave him. He fell down 6 times in that fight. As a matter of fact, Smokin' Joe was already done after he gave it all on The Fight of the Century when he kicked Ali's ass.

Ken Norton is like saying that he is in Carlos Palomino's or Ernesto Marcel's
level.

Duran was almost flawless in the 70s.

Ali? He lost 3 fights with Norton. Only blind eyes would not see it.

He lost to an amateur in Leon Spinks. Duran not even in his sleep would have lost to an amateur at age 50.

See, you are making it seem and try to sell that The Hands of Stone fought some tomato cans and mediocre people. His opposition was respectable. Every champion had great opponents and mediocre ones. At least Duran fought 10 top notch world class level fighters. Some he beat with ease. Some of them he had a struggle to win. Even Ali had some mediocre opponents. How about Jurgen Blin, Chuck Wepner, Brian London, and Karl Middleberger? Were they not tomato cans in Ali's ledger?

[Ambling Alp II]

DeJesus and Buchanan certainly are not top 20 lightweights. And Whitaker and others would have easily beaten them.
Anyone who saw Frazier fight after Foreman should be able to tell he plenty left after the Foreman fight.
Ali beat Norton two out of three.
Umm yes Norton was on the level of Palomino and Marcel. And Norton wasn't in decline like Palomino.
Mildenberger and London were not in the 1970s. You are factually incorrect.

How about for once we actually talk a look at some of the opponents that Duran beat to puff up his record:

Clemente Mucini
Marun Castanda
Igancio Castenda
Fermin Soto
Benny Huertas
Panchito Munoz
Greg Potter
Lupe Ramirez
Javier Ayala
Doc McLendon
Leonard Tamierez
Flash Gallego
Andres Salgado
Pepe el Toro
Aliro Acuna
Bernard Diaz
Ezeguiel Obando

Look up their career in the database.

That's a an awful lot of tomato cans.

[elmersalsa]

DeJesus and Buchanan certainly are not top 20 lightweights. And Whitaker and others would have easily beaten them.
Anyone who saw Frazier fight after Foreman should be able to tell he plenty left after the Foreman fight.
Ali beat Norton two out of three.
Umm yes Norton was on the level of Palomino and Marcel. And Norton wasn't in decline like Palomino.
Mildenberger and London were not in the 1970s. You are factually incorrect.

How about for once we actually talk a look at some of the opponents that Duran beat to puff up his record:

Clemente Mucini
Marun Castanda
Igancio Castenda
Fermin Soto
Benny Huertas
Panchito Munoz
Greg Potter
Lupe Ramirez
Javier Ayala
Doc McLendon
Leonard Tamierez
Flash Gallego
Andres Salgado
Pepe el Toro
Aliro Acuna
Bernard Diaz
Ezeguiel Obando

Look up their career in the database.

That's a an awful lot of tomato cans.

When I, I, mentioned Brian London and Karl Middleberger, I was referring to them as Ali's tomato cans in his overall career, not in the 70s decade.

Every champion in history had some tomato cans as opponents. Ask Willie Pep. Ask Sugar Ray Robinson. Ask Jimmy Wilde. And even Duran, Ali and Ray Leonard. There's nothing wrong with that. You could only fight what is in front of you.

Esteban De Jesus and Ken Buchanan are rated by The Ring Magazine as top 20 Lightweight boxers of all-time. That's enough for me. Maybe The Ring is in Duran's jocks. I think that they are correct in putting them top 20. Ken Norton is not a top 20 heavyweight. That's a fact. At least Carlos Palomino made 8 title defenses.

Anyone that thinks different about DeJesus and Buchanan that they weren't fantastic fighters is either, biased, wicked hearted or doesn't know a clue about boxing. Those two could give ANY LIGHTWEIGHT in history a sweat for their money. Both were champions at all levels of pro competition. When a fighter can do that, is says a lot. It is special.

You want to bring up Duran's tomato can opponents? Well, I could do the same with Ali right? Should I?