Who was the worst champ ever???
Bruce Seldon
Leon Spinks
John Ruiz
Nicolay Valuev
Primo Carnera
Someone else???? I'd say Ruiz would beat Spinks head to head, as would Seldon. My pick would be Leon???
Worst heavyweight champs of all time...
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hawaiianpunch
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 89
- Joined: 15 Feb 2003, 14:54
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Thunder and Lightning
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 177
- Joined: 11 Jul 2006, 10:40
Hm yeah Leon wasn't that good you'r probably right there but if Bruce Seldon is there then souldn't you count all the alphabetchamps, in that case you got alot of people that stink more then those guys.
Like Butterbean (IBA), Brian Nielsen (IBO, IBC), Herbie Hide (2 time WBO) there are others.
and by the way i belive Buster Douglas should be on the list to.
Like Butterbean (IBA), Brian Nielsen (IBO, IBC), Herbie Hide (2 time WBO) there are others.
and by the way i belive Buster Douglas should be on the list to.
re
Well Seldon held one of the big three titles that most everyone consider to be legit, the WBA, which happens to be the oldest of the titles, though nowadays none of the titles are legit. I think it's a toss up between Ruiz and Seldon for the worst title holder...I have difficulty calling any alphabet title holder champion...just a title holder, or belt holder.
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pundit
- Heavyweight
Re: Worst heavyweight champs of all time...
Carnera is the best on your list. Willard was worse.hawaiianpunch wrote:Who was the worst champ ever???
Bruce Seldon
Leon Spinks
John Ruiz
Nicolay Valuev
Primo Carnera
Someone else???? I'd say Ruiz would beat Spinks head to head, as would Seldon. My pick would be Leon???
Seldon would make the "worst" spot it in my book.
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pundit
- Heavyweight
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
Not only was Vitali not a "legit champ", he was never a champ. He was merely an alphabet title holder. However, hHe was better than the guys in the origianl list.pundit wrote:Vitali is head and shoulders above anyone on this list. Vitali was not an outstanding champ but a fairly legit one.Terence wrote:Ruiz is up there. Vitali Klitschko must be in with a shot. He was rated The Champion yet his record was pretty poor aside from a loss to a real fighter.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
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bill.lockhart
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 249
- Joined: 01 Nov 2005, 11:40
CHAMPS
Why do people recognize the alpha champs. Ridiculous.
Re: Worst heavyweight champs of all time...
I don't like to watch Ruiz fight, I really don't. In fact, I hate it. But everyone is short changing Ruiz here. The guy can fight. He is boring and sleep inducing, yeah, that much is true. He is a whining b*tch when things don't go his way. So what? You don't have to like him. Try to at least rate him according to his wins and ability.hawaiianpunch wrote:Who was the worst champ ever???
Bruce Seldon
Leon Spinks
John Ruiz
Nicolay Valuev
Primo Carnera
Someone else???? I'd say Ruiz would beat Spinks head to head, as would Seldon. My pick would be Leon???
Ruiz is better than everyone on your list, including Valuev. I thought he beat Valuev pretty clearly, as did most other people. Ruiz beat: an aged Tony Tucker, the late and highly touted Jerry Ballard, Evander Holyfield (controversially), Kirk Johnson, Hasim Rahman, Fres Oquendo, and debatably Andrew Golota. Three of his six losses were split or majority decisions, and his close loss to James Toney was overturned due to steroid use.
Damn, give the guy his due. His not in the top twenty heavyweights of all-time, but he definitely isn't one of the worst.
I swear, people will be talking about John Ruiz differently in twenty years. He will be remembered as a rough, tricky boxer who won ugly, but won nevertheless.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
I don't put Ruiz as one of the worst. In his last few fights he hasn't done as much clinching, the Valuev fight was the best I have ever seen Ruiz, and I still believe he was robbed in Germany. Ruiz is what you call a "late bloomer" in my opinion, and I don't really knock him because unlike most of the other champions since Lewis retired, Ruiz was always willing to fight anybody.
Leon Spinks and Bruce Seldon I'd place as worst champions at HW. Leon especially, as his over-all career was the most sorry assed affair I have ever seen, I'd pick a ToughMan champion to beat Neon Leon.
Carnera and Willard I actually rank higher than most people do, though, to Willard's own admission, his best punches were a jab and a right uppercut, so he was limited, but at least these two beat good fighters near or in their primes.
Valuev, it's just too early to judge his "champion" status, but judging thus far in his career, rather than giving Ruiz a rematch, he takes on fringe contender Owen Beck---just shows me that maybe the Russian Giant is going to take a bunch of set-ups so he can remain undefeated, and as far as him taking on Monte Barrett in his next defense....well, just solidifies what I just said.
Vitali Klitschko, is one of those guys who could have been a really good fighter, as he probably made out of much better material than Rahman, Valuev, Waldimir and The White Wolf---but he quit. And judging by his over-all career, his defining fight, no doubt, is his loss to Lennox Lewis and possibly his knockout of Corrie Sanders...his fight with Williams was a joke, as the Brit had NO BUSINESS being in there, was a gross mismatch.
Same as with James Buster Douglas, had so much talent and could have been something, but pissed it all away.
Leon Spinks and Bruce Seldon I'd place as worst champions at HW. Leon especially, as his over-all career was the most sorry assed affair I have ever seen, I'd pick a ToughMan champion to beat Neon Leon.
Carnera and Willard I actually rank higher than most people do, though, to Willard's own admission, his best punches were a jab and a right uppercut, so he was limited, but at least these two beat good fighters near or in their primes.
Valuev, it's just too early to judge his "champion" status, but judging thus far in his career, rather than giving Ruiz a rematch, he takes on fringe contender Owen Beck---just shows me that maybe the Russian Giant is going to take a bunch of set-ups so he can remain undefeated, and as far as him taking on Monte Barrett in his next defense....well, just solidifies what I just said.
Vitali Klitschko, is one of those guys who could have been a really good fighter, as he probably made out of much better material than Rahman, Valuev, Waldimir and The White Wolf---but he quit. And judging by his over-all career, his defining fight, no doubt, is his loss to Lennox Lewis and possibly his knockout of Corrie Sanders...his fight with Williams was a joke, as the Brit had NO BUSINESS being in there, was a gross mismatch.
Same as with James Buster Douglas, had so much talent and could have been something, but pissed it all away.
If we're talking alphabet champs then it has to be Mr Bruce Seldon, who got floored by a punch that missed him, or if we are lowering ourselves to the WBO then Michael Bentt and the '2 time heavyweight champion of the world', Herbie Hide.
Real Champs, I'd say Marvin Hart, Primo Carnera and Leon Spinks. But at least these guys went out swinging, unlike the 'Atlantic City Express'.
Real Champs, I'd say Marvin Hart, Primo Carnera and Leon Spinks. But at least these guys went out swinging, unlike the 'Atlantic City Express'.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
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Love Nozzle
- Heavyweight
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
primo carnera is a lot better than some of u people think.
heres a nice article on prime by ESB poster "janitor"
"A defence of Primo Carnera part I
History has not been kind to Primo Carnera. He is probably the most under-rated and mis-understood champion in history. It is almost an article of faith amongst many that he
is one of the worst champions of all time. Even among some knowledgeable fans. Many less knowledgeable fans see him as a circus freak built up into a world champion by the mafia through a series of fixed fights. My purpose here is to challenge this assumption.
Allegations of fixed fights
A common criticism used to detract from his record is that a large number of his fights were fixed. Ultimately the onus is on those who made this accusation to provide some evidence of it. With that in mind let us trace the fixed fight legend back to its origin.
The allegation of Carneras involvement in fixed fights was originally made by his former manager Leon See. See founded the French Boxing Federation and brought Carnera along through his early fights but was muscled out and forced to hand over his contract to the racketeers Owney Madden and Billy Duffey. See was a very bitter man and wrote a book “Le mysterie Carnera” in which he alleged that Carneras new handlers travelled all over Europe fixing dozens fights sometimes just days apart in different countries. He wrote the phrases “combat arrange” and “combat sincere” next to bouts to indicate which were fixed and which weren’t. Some xenophobic elements in the press who did not like the idea of an Italian heavyweight champion quickly seized on the allegations of Leon See.
The allegations outlined by See are so far reaching that they can be quickly dismissed. While it is conceivable that Madden and Duffey might have fixed a few fights to move their man up the ladder it is highly doubtful that they would have invested the resources to fix dozens of fights for a mediocre contender. If they did not know that he would end up the world champion how did they hope to recoup their investment. It is unlikely that any racketeer would have had the organisational capability to fix fights on the scale that See alleged and if they had how did they expect their man to develop the skills that he would need to compete at a world class level?
One allegation often banded about is that the fight where Carnera won the title from Jack Sharkey was fixed. On film Sharkey dominates the fight for its duration but ultimately caught by a terrific punch in the 6th which puts him down for the count. The bout has none of the characteristics of a fix. In order to maximise the return from the fix the founders of the scam would need to be able to name the round in which Sharkey would have gone down. If it were arranged for him to go down in the sixth then he would have to appear to fight Carnera convincingly for the duration of the fight without either knocking him out or getting knocked out himself. A premature knockout of either fighter would render the scam worthless. The most failsafe option would be for Sharkey to lie down in the first round as Sonny Liston did against Muhammad Ali in their second encounter.
The biggest hole in the theory about the title fight being fixed is the absence of an irregular betting pattern which would act as a smoking gun. In the run up to the second Ali Liston fight the bookies stopped taking bets months before the bout took place. The fight was held in a high school gym because none of the major venues would touch it. Obviously the bookies had smelled a rat. If Sharkey did indeed take a dive against Carnera there will be a paper trail for some resourceful boxing historian to uncover.
In summary there is no compelling historical evidence that any of Carneras fights were fixed and that is how we should view the matter. Fight fixing was rife at the time and virtually all top fighters had links to organised crime somewhere. What makes Carnera more prone to this accusation than any other champion of the period?
Resume and accomplishments
A quick look at Carnera's resume quickly shows him to be one of the best heavyweights of his era. Indeed his resume compares favourably to ANY heavyweight between Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis. In his career he chalked up wins over.
Young Stribling
One of the best heavyweights never to win the title. Striblings all time knockout record is only exceeded by Archie Moore. He is also considered by some historians to be one of the best feinters of all time.
Neil Clisby
One of the highly avoided black contenders of the day. Clisby was a scrappy fighter who gave Tony Galento the worst beating of his career.
George Godfrey
One of the great might have beens of the heavyweight division. Some historians rank Godfrey among the top 20 heavyweights of all time. Godfrey was a super heavyweight with good boxing skills and power up there with the biggest hitters of all time. Most of the champions of the 30s avoided Godfrey like the plague. Carnera was not one of them.
Bearcat Wright
A big pressure fighter who fought out of a crouch with good defence. Wright was highly avoided by the champions of the period. His resume includes wins over an old Jack Johnson and Sam Langford. He also beat Tiger Jack Fox, Fred Fulton, and Tut Jackson.
Paulino Uzcudun
One of the better contenders of the period. Uzcudun defeated Max Baer and a declining Harry Wills. At 229 lbs he would not have been a small heavyweight today. Uzcudun was never knocked off his feet prior to facing Joe Louis.
King Levinski
A top contender of the period with a dangerous right hand. Beat Jack Sharkey, Tommy Loughran, Paulino Uzcudun and Lee Ramage. An unofficial beating from Levinski persuaded Jack Dempsey not to attempt a comeback.
Art Lasky
Lasky was a solid contender of the period with wins over Tiger Jack Fox, Lee Ramage and King Levinski.
Earnie Schaff
A rising star of the division before his untimely demise. Schaff beat Max Baer, Jimmy Braddock, Tommy Loughran, Young Stribling, Paulino Uzcudun, Johnny Risko and Tony Galento.
Jack Sharkey
Jack Sharkey was a great if inconsistent champion. A superb boxer puncher who would have been a handful for any champion in history on his best night. Sharkey is a top 30 all time heavyweight.
Tommy Loughran
One of the greatest light heavyweights of all time Loughran is also one of the greatest heavyweights never to hold the lineal title. Consider that Loughran defeated three lineal heavyweight champions in Jack Sharkey, Max Baer and Jimmy Braddock. Four if you include a newspaper decision over Gene Tunney .
Walter Neusel
Highly touted German prospect seen by many as the heir apparent to Max Schmelings throne as the best heavyweight out of Europe. Held wins over Tommy Loughran, Larry Gains and King Levinski among others
Cecil Seal Harris
Big and durable with decent power. Harris would probably have got a title shot at some point but for the colour of his skin.
This is not the resume of a weak champion. If you compare his record to that of Max Schmeling or Jack Sharkey you will find that he beat virtually all of the upper tier opponents that they beat and arguably had greater depth to his record overall.
A defence of Primo Carnera part II
Common opponents with Max Baer
Let us compare his record to that of Max Baer versus common opponents. Many people think that Baer is a top 30 all time heavyweight and had the potential to be ranked much higher. Baer and Carnera have five common opponents. Joe Louis, Tommy Loughran, Earnie Schaff, Paulino Uzcudun and King Levinski. Bellow are their respective records vs this group.
Joe Louis, - Baer 0,1 - Carnera 0,1
Tommy Loughran, - Baer 0,1 - Carnera 1,0
Earnie Schaff, - Baer 1,1 - Carnera 1,0
Paulino Uzcudun, - Baer 0,1 - Carnera 2,0
King Levinski, - Baer 2,0 - Carnera 2,0
Overall score - Baer 3,4 - Carnera 6,1
As you can see Carnera is far more consistent vs the same competition. If Carnera is really one of the worst lineal champions of all time then surely Baer must be also.
Head to head ability
In the run up to the second bout with Jack Sharkey Jack Dempsey told one reporter “Carnera has improved beyond recognition since their previous bout. He is now a serious threat to the champions’ title”.
Film of Carnera shows that he was fast on his feet for a big man and had decent boxing skills. There are also a few subtleties to his game that are often overlooked. He was extremely good at slipping punches. In one of his fights the referee none other than Jack Dempsey unexpectedly threw a punch at Carnera for ignoring his instructions. A photograph of the incident shows Carnera performing a text book slip to easily avoid the punch.
Another dimension of Carneras repertoire that is rarely discussed is that he was a cute fouler. In the clinches the former circus strongman would grip an opponent’s bicep and squeeze it hard so that opponent could not raise their arm. He could actually detach a shoulder muscle with a gloved hand. He also stepped on his opponent’s feet and occasionally broke their toes.
For those who question Carneras power consider that he knocked Bearcat Wright through the ropes with such force that he broke one of the ring posts.
When Carnera beat Tommy Loughran he won a decision over one of the best technical boxers of the era. Now a fighter without skills is never going to decision Tommy Loughran. They might knock him out but they will never decision him. It is also worth noting that among the champions of the 30s only Carnera dared to risk his title against Loughran. It is possible that Dempsey and Louis were steered clear of Loughran by their managers.
Did Carnera win just because of the size difference? No. Loughran had just comprehensively beaten Ray Impelitiere who was even bigger than the Ambling Alp. Carnera produced a different outcome because he had the skills to utilize his size advantages to neutralize Loughrans assets. I would submit that this is a better win than Wladamir Klitschkos first victory over Chris Byrd and that Carnera would have been a formidable opponent for any former light heavyweight in history.
Carnera also showed that he could beat the big guys with wins over Godfrey, Wright and Uzcudun. Against Ray Impelitiere he gave up five inches in height and won. In short Carnera beat good technical boxers such as Loughran and Stribling, boxer punchers such as Sharkey and pressure fighters such as Wright and Neusel.
Conclusions
So how dose Carneras legacy stack up. As stated earlier it compares favourably to those of all the champions of the 30s. I submit that only Max Schmeling and Jack Sharkey have better resumes from that period. I also think that is can be argued that he achieved more than Floyd Patterson or Imager Johansen. Certainly his accomplishments exceed those of any heavyweight active since Lennox Lewis retired. It is my firm belief that Carnera should be in the Hall of Fame."
heres a nice article on prime by ESB poster "janitor"
"A defence of Primo Carnera part I
History has not been kind to Primo Carnera. He is probably the most under-rated and mis-understood champion in history. It is almost an article of faith amongst many that he
is one of the worst champions of all time. Even among some knowledgeable fans. Many less knowledgeable fans see him as a circus freak built up into a world champion by the mafia through a series of fixed fights. My purpose here is to challenge this assumption.
Allegations of fixed fights
A common criticism used to detract from his record is that a large number of his fights were fixed. Ultimately the onus is on those who made this accusation to provide some evidence of it. With that in mind let us trace the fixed fight legend back to its origin.
The allegation of Carneras involvement in fixed fights was originally made by his former manager Leon See. See founded the French Boxing Federation and brought Carnera along through his early fights but was muscled out and forced to hand over his contract to the racketeers Owney Madden and Billy Duffey. See was a very bitter man and wrote a book “Le mysterie Carnera” in which he alleged that Carneras new handlers travelled all over Europe fixing dozens fights sometimes just days apart in different countries. He wrote the phrases “combat arrange” and “combat sincere” next to bouts to indicate which were fixed and which weren’t. Some xenophobic elements in the press who did not like the idea of an Italian heavyweight champion quickly seized on the allegations of Leon See.
The allegations outlined by See are so far reaching that they can be quickly dismissed. While it is conceivable that Madden and Duffey might have fixed a few fights to move their man up the ladder it is highly doubtful that they would have invested the resources to fix dozens of fights for a mediocre contender. If they did not know that he would end up the world champion how did they hope to recoup their investment. It is unlikely that any racketeer would have had the organisational capability to fix fights on the scale that See alleged and if they had how did they expect their man to develop the skills that he would need to compete at a world class level?
One allegation often banded about is that the fight where Carnera won the title from Jack Sharkey was fixed. On film Sharkey dominates the fight for its duration but ultimately caught by a terrific punch in the 6th which puts him down for the count. The bout has none of the characteristics of a fix. In order to maximise the return from the fix the founders of the scam would need to be able to name the round in which Sharkey would have gone down. If it were arranged for him to go down in the sixth then he would have to appear to fight Carnera convincingly for the duration of the fight without either knocking him out or getting knocked out himself. A premature knockout of either fighter would render the scam worthless. The most failsafe option would be for Sharkey to lie down in the first round as Sonny Liston did against Muhammad Ali in their second encounter.
The biggest hole in the theory about the title fight being fixed is the absence of an irregular betting pattern which would act as a smoking gun. In the run up to the second Ali Liston fight the bookies stopped taking bets months before the bout took place. The fight was held in a high school gym because none of the major venues would touch it. Obviously the bookies had smelled a rat. If Sharkey did indeed take a dive against Carnera there will be a paper trail for some resourceful boxing historian to uncover.
In summary there is no compelling historical evidence that any of Carneras fights were fixed and that is how we should view the matter. Fight fixing was rife at the time and virtually all top fighters had links to organised crime somewhere. What makes Carnera more prone to this accusation than any other champion of the period?
Resume and accomplishments
A quick look at Carnera's resume quickly shows him to be one of the best heavyweights of his era. Indeed his resume compares favourably to ANY heavyweight between Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis. In his career he chalked up wins over.
Young Stribling
One of the best heavyweights never to win the title. Striblings all time knockout record is only exceeded by Archie Moore. He is also considered by some historians to be one of the best feinters of all time.
Neil Clisby
One of the highly avoided black contenders of the day. Clisby was a scrappy fighter who gave Tony Galento the worst beating of his career.
George Godfrey
One of the great might have beens of the heavyweight division. Some historians rank Godfrey among the top 20 heavyweights of all time. Godfrey was a super heavyweight with good boxing skills and power up there with the biggest hitters of all time. Most of the champions of the 30s avoided Godfrey like the plague. Carnera was not one of them.
Bearcat Wright
A big pressure fighter who fought out of a crouch with good defence. Wright was highly avoided by the champions of the period. His resume includes wins over an old Jack Johnson and Sam Langford. He also beat Tiger Jack Fox, Fred Fulton, and Tut Jackson.
Paulino Uzcudun
One of the better contenders of the period. Uzcudun defeated Max Baer and a declining Harry Wills. At 229 lbs he would not have been a small heavyweight today. Uzcudun was never knocked off his feet prior to facing Joe Louis.
King Levinski
A top contender of the period with a dangerous right hand. Beat Jack Sharkey, Tommy Loughran, Paulino Uzcudun and Lee Ramage. An unofficial beating from Levinski persuaded Jack Dempsey not to attempt a comeback.
Art Lasky
Lasky was a solid contender of the period with wins over Tiger Jack Fox, Lee Ramage and King Levinski.
Earnie Schaff
A rising star of the division before his untimely demise. Schaff beat Max Baer, Jimmy Braddock, Tommy Loughran, Young Stribling, Paulino Uzcudun, Johnny Risko and Tony Galento.
Jack Sharkey
Jack Sharkey was a great if inconsistent champion. A superb boxer puncher who would have been a handful for any champion in history on his best night. Sharkey is a top 30 all time heavyweight.
Tommy Loughran
One of the greatest light heavyweights of all time Loughran is also one of the greatest heavyweights never to hold the lineal title. Consider that Loughran defeated three lineal heavyweight champions in Jack Sharkey, Max Baer and Jimmy Braddock. Four if you include a newspaper decision over Gene Tunney .
Walter Neusel
Highly touted German prospect seen by many as the heir apparent to Max Schmelings throne as the best heavyweight out of Europe. Held wins over Tommy Loughran, Larry Gains and King Levinski among others
Cecil Seal Harris
Big and durable with decent power. Harris would probably have got a title shot at some point but for the colour of his skin.
This is not the resume of a weak champion. If you compare his record to that of Max Schmeling or Jack Sharkey you will find that he beat virtually all of the upper tier opponents that they beat and arguably had greater depth to his record overall.
A defence of Primo Carnera part II
Common opponents with Max Baer
Let us compare his record to that of Max Baer versus common opponents. Many people think that Baer is a top 30 all time heavyweight and had the potential to be ranked much higher. Baer and Carnera have five common opponents. Joe Louis, Tommy Loughran, Earnie Schaff, Paulino Uzcudun and King Levinski. Bellow are their respective records vs this group.
Joe Louis, - Baer 0,1 - Carnera 0,1
Tommy Loughran, - Baer 0,1 - Carnera 1,0
Earnie Schaff, - Baer 1,1 - Carnera 1,0
Paulino Uzcudun, - Baer 0,1 - Carnera 2,0
King Levinski, - Baer 2,0 - Carnera 2,0
Overall score - Baer 3,4 - Carnera 6,1
As you can see Carnera is far more consistent vs the same competition. If Carnera is really one of the worst lineal champions of all time then surely Baer must be also.
Head to head ability
In the run up to the second bout with Jack Sharkey Jack Dempsey told one reporter “Carnera has improved beyond recognition since their previous bout. He is now a serious threat to the champions’ title”.
Film of Carnera shows that he was fast on his feet for a big man and had decent boxing skills. There are also a few subtleties to his game that are often overlooked. He was extremely good at slipping punches. In one of his fights the referee none other than Jack Dempsey unexpectedly threw a punch at Carnera for ignoring his instructions. A photograph of the incident shows Carnera performing a text book slip to easily avoid the punch.
Another dimension of Carneras repertoire that is rarely discussed is that he was a cute fouler. In the clinches the former circus strongman would grip an opponent’s bicep and squeeze it hard so that opponent could not raise their arm. He could actually detach a shoulder muscle with a gloved hand. He also stepped on his opponent’s feet and occasionally broke their toes.
For those who question Carneras power consider that he knocked Bearcat Wright through the ropes with such force that he broke one of the ring posts.
When Carnera beat Tommy Loughran he won a decision over one of the best technical boxers of the era. Now a fighter without skills is never going to decision Tommy Loughran. They might knock him out but they will never decision him. It is also worth noting that among the champions of the 30s only Carnera dared to risk his title against Loughran. It is possible that Dempsey and Louis were steered clear of Loughran by their managers.
Did Carnera win just because of the size difference? No. Loughran had just comprehensively beaten Ray Impelitiere who was even bigger than the Ambling Alp. Carnera produced a different outcome because he had the skills to utilize his size advantages to neutralize Loughrans assets. I would submit that this is a better win than Wladamir Klitschkos first victory over Chris Byrd and that Carnera would have been a formidable opponent for any former light heavyweight in history.
Carnera also showed that he could beat the big guys with wins over Godfrey, Wright and Uzcudun. Against Ray Impelitiere he gave up five inches in height and won. In short Carnera beat good technical boxers such as Loughran and Stribling, boxer punchers such as Sharkey and pressure fighters such as Wright and Neusel.
Conclusions
So how dose Carneras legacy stack up. As stated earlier it compares favourably to those of all the champions of the 30s. I submit that only Max Schmeling and Jack Sharkey have better resumes from that period. I also think that is can be argued that he achieved more than Floyd Patterson or Imager Johansen. Certainly his accomplishments exceed those of any heavyweight active since Lennox Lewis retired. It is my firm belief that Carnera should be in the Hall of Fame."
HOGWASH and easily deconstructed. You can make a case for an elephant to fit through the eye of a needle if you mimic much of this logic. And there are some flat out stories here as well. Go hit a few more books and cut with the revisionist nonsense.
Last edited by BoxBuzz on 10 Aug 2006, 20:08, edited 1 time in total.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Absolutely. Seldon was beaten before the ink on the contract was dry.Collins2000 wrote:Seldon is the worst in my opinion......... It's close but Bruce The Goose scores extra points for the way his knees were literally knocking together when he thought the ref was going to send him back out against Tyson.
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generic screen name
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 631
- Joined: 11 Feb 2006, 16:28
the worst "true" heavyweight champ has to be Buster Douglas. Atleast guys like Braddock tried, Douglas got fatter than holier hell and got destroyed by Evander Holyfield.
Guys who have one belt have a piece of the heavyweight championship not the heavyweight championship. Thats like calling a baseball team that only won their division "champs".
Guys who have one belt have a piece of the heavyweight championship not the heavyweight championship. Thats like calling a baseball team that only won their division "champs".
good analogy. Ill never forget how Buster went out against Holyfield. Especialy after a great effort against Tyson.generic screen name wrote:the worst "true" heavyweight champ has to be Buster Douglas. Atleast guys like Braddock tried, Douglas got fatter than holier hell and got destroyed by Evander Holyfield.
Guys who have one belt have a piece of the heavyweight championship not the heavyweight championship. Thats like calling a baseball team that only won their division "champs".
Throwing that uppercut from long range against Evander only to have Holyfield calmly avoid the shot and hit him with a right hand that took him out.
Buster not only came into the ring fat and out of shape, but he might as well have written Evander a letter informing him that that uppercut was coming.
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Syntax Error
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9004
- Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 08:00