Hall of Fame Members

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 09 Aug 2006, 08:15

The International boxing Hall of Fame is better than many other Hall of Fames as far as who gets in. ( For a list of fighters that are in, you can go to http://www.ibhof.com) However, there obviously have been some mistakes.
There are always going to be some borderline cases where two guys are about even and only is in. Maybe you agree with their choice but if you don't you can atleast understand the reasoning.
However, there a few fighters that aren't in that are much better than some who are in.

Who do guys think definitely should be in that aren't, and who definitley shouldn't be but are?
It's easy to name a bunch of fighters and say they should be in, but who shouldn't?
So for every fighter that you vote for who isn't in but should be, name someone who is in and shouldn't be.

I have 5 guys that I don't think have any case for being in. (You may want to pick more or less).

Jess Willard
Jimmy Braddock
Benny Bass
Pinpo Cuevas
Sixto Escobar

The most worthy who aren't in are:
Eddie Booker
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall
Dwight Qawi
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad

What do you guys think? It will be interesting to see who people vote for.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 09 Aug 2006, 08:41

Ambling Alp wrote:I have 5 guys that I don't think have any case for being in. (You may want to pick more or less).

Jess Willard
Jimmy Braddock
Benny Bass
Pinpo Cuevas
Sixto Escobar

You can add Carlos Palomino to this list.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 09 Aug 2006, 09:35

and Jeff Lacy.

8)

.. some people were already planning his 'coming in party' up till he fought Calzaghe!!...

:x

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 09 Aug 2006, 09:37

I don't think Ingemar Johansson or Randy Turpin have a case either. Good fighters, yes, but great ones? No way.
Lazslo Papp shouldn't be in there either in my opinion, unless because of hios amateur career, something which is not a criteria as far as I know.
Overall, there are probably about 20 or more fighters I would say don not deserve to be there, a number which grows each year.

The top 3 fighters I feel are worthy and well overdue of getting in the IBHOF are Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall and Harry Lewis.
Those were great fighters who fought other greats on even terms. Their biggest victories were not flukes as the case is with Johansson and Turpin.

-KOKid-

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 09 Aug 2006, 09:39

Ambling Alp wrote:The International boxing Hall of Fame is better than many other Hall of Fames as far as who gets in. ( For a list of fighters that are in, you can go to http://www.ibhof.com) However, there obviously have been some mistakes.
There are always going to be some borderline cases where two guys are about even and only is in. Maybe you agree with their choice but if you don't you can atleast understand the reasoning.
However, there a few fighters that aren't in that are much better than some who are in.

Who do guys think definitely should be in that aren't, and who definitley shouldn't be but are?
It's easy to name a bunch of fighters and say they should be in, but who shouldn't?
So for every fighter that you vote for who isn't in but should be, name someone who is in and shouldn't be.

I have 5 guys that I don't think have any case for being in. (You may want to pick more or less).

Jess Willard
Jimmy Braddock
Benny Bass
Pinpo Cuevas
Sixto Escobar

The most worthy who aren't in are:
Eddie Booker
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall
Dwight Qawi
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad

What do you guys think? It will be interesting to see who people vote for.

I think both Bass and Cuevas deserve their places in the hall... Bass was one of the toughest fighters of his era and Cuevas was awesome in his prime but gets underrated these days because people mainly remember him for losing to Hearns and Duran... watch him dismantle Weston, Gray and Ranzany and tell me he doesnt belong in the hall...

Both Bass and Cuevas have more reason to be in the hall than Quawi and Muhammad... I wouldnt begrudge Quawi a place in the hall but Muhammad was a lazy fighter with a bit of dog in him and he despite all his talent he doesnt belong in the hall...

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 09 Aug 2006, 09:51

Qawi IS in the HOF.

Thunder and Lightning · Post by **Thunder and Lightning** » 09 Aug 2006, 10:08

-KOKid- wrote: Their biggest victories were not flukes as the case is with Johansson and Turpin.
-KOKid-

Bullshit Ingemar Johansson victory were not a fluke, Ingemar destroyed Patterson sure he may have lost soundly in the rematch but so did Max Schmeling and his win over Louis was no fluke i have been told.
You can't say his win was a fluke just because he was a puncher and knocked Patterson out early because in that case you can argue that all the fights were a puncher wins by KO are all flukes.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 09 Aug 2006, 13:18

Terence wrote:
silkov wrote:and Jeff Lacy. 8) .. some people were already planning his 'coming in party' up till he fought Calzaghe!!... :x
One bad pick, that pretty much reflects how low I rate Calzaghe, the Brits are just getting excited because he won a single bout in style. Even that is debatable though.

Conversley Joe will, undeservedly, walk into the HOF.

A single bout???...... what about his wins over Bewer, Woodhall, Eubank, and a prime Reid???.... I seem to remember certain posters creaming their pants when Lacy beat a washed up Reid, Joe done the job 5 years before!... theres nothing sadder than sour grapes!...

8)

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 09 Aug 2006, 21:53

silkov wrote:
Ambling Alp wrote:The International boxing Hall of Fame is better than many other Hall of Fames as far as who gets in. ( For a list of fighters that are in, you can go to http://www.ibhof.com) However, there obviously have been some mistakes.
There are always going to be some borderline cases where two guys are about even and only is in. Maybe you agree with their choice but if you don't you can atleast understand the reasoning.
However, there a few fighters that aren't in that are much better than some who are in.

Who do guys think definitely should be in that aren't, and who definitley shouldn't be but are?
It's easy to name a bunch of fighters and say they should be in, but who shouldn't?
So for every fighter that you vote for who isn't in but should be, name someone who is in and shouldn't be.

I have 5 guys that I don't think have any case for being in. (You may want to pick more or less).

Jess Willard
Jimmy Braddock
Benny Bass
Pinpo Cuevas
Sixto Escobar

The most worthy who aren't in are:
Eddie Booker
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall
Dwight Qawi
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad

What do you guys think? It will be interesting to see who people vote for.
I think both Bass and Cuevas deserve their places in the hall... Bass was one of the toughest fighters of his era and Cuevas was awesome in his prime but gets underrated these days because people mainly remember him for losing to Hearns and Duran... watch him dismantle Weston, Gray and Ranzany and tell me he doesnt belong in the hall...

Both Bass and Cuevas have more reason to be in the hall than Quawi and Muhammad... I wouldnt begrudge Quawi a place in the hall but Muhammad was a lazy fighter with a bit of dog in him and he despite all his talent he doesnt belong in the hall...

I agree that Eddie Mustapha Muhammed could be dull to watch at times. Sort of puts me in mind of James Toney. But I'm not sure if that keeps him out of the hall of fame. Sometimes he was just patient and sometimes so much so he apeard to be dogging it and maybe he was. I would probably give him a borderline pass but would not go out of my way to lobby on his behalf. The lazy part of it may be more of a charachter issue than something to keep a fighter out of the hall of fame.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 10 Aug 2006, 00:04

Qawi isn't in?????? I always assumed he made it. One of my all time faves, and I didn't even know he was in the hall of fame!!!

Chuck1052 · Post by **Chuck1052** » 10 Aug 2006, 03:06

Can you believe that the following aren't Hall of Famers?

Larry Foley, the father of boxing in Australia
Frank Churchill, the father of boxing in the Philippines
Tom McCarey, the promoter who put Los Angeles
on the map as a great boxing venue
Jack Hurley, the great boxing manager/trainer who
was one of most unique characters in the sport.

kevin · Post by **kevin** » 10 Aug 2006, 03:41

Bert Gilroy has just been inducted into the World Boxing Hall of Fame

More at http://www.britishboxing.net/news_1595- ... -Fame.html and http://www.wbhf.org

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 10 Aug 2006, 06:26

Terence wrote:
silkov wrote:
Terence wrote: One bad pick, that pretty much reflects how low I rate Calzaghe, the Brits are just getting excited because he won a single bout in style. Even that is debatable though.

Conversley Joe will, undeservedly, walk into the HOF.
A single bout???...... what about his wins over Bewer, Woodhall, Eubank, and a prime Reid???.... I seem to remember certain posters creaming their pants when Lacy beat a washed up Reid, Joe done the job 5 years before!... theres nothing sadder than sour grapes!... 8)
Jeez Silkov, even your memory is fooked, I wasn't posting here when Reid got splatted by Lacy (as Decagon pointed out Robin did it fairly and didn't run from a tricky rematch). How can you have sour grapes when you are going against a fighter from the get-go. Joe isn't very good. The British overrated him on the basis of one night, now he has been largely forgotten about due to his lack of star quality. A real fighter, with correct punch technique would have straightened his shots, hit with the knuckle and put Lacy down and out. Eubank took the fight when he wasn't in his pomp (when he was in his pomp he was an average fighter), nor was he very fit and Joe spent years whinging about how tough it was. Woodhall had been exposed by Homles and Beyer. Brewer was part of the Ottke left-overs Joe gobbled so greedily upon. But I forget, Joe did not have to fight Ottke, the words: "I think Ottke is rubbish." meant Joe could skip that fight.

When I mention Lacy why do you always think I'm refering to you personally,

:x

you werent the only one caught up on the Lacy bandwagon!...

8)

...though I understand that it must seem that way sometimes to you...

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 10 Aug 2006, 07:16

Gee you two are almost as much fun as barry and Decagon...

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 10 Aug 2006, 07:41

Seamus wrote:Qawi IS in the HOF.

Good catch Seamus, I don't know why I thought he wasn't. :) I guess I will substitute Rodrigo Vladez.
So I still have Willard, Braddock,Cuevas,Bass, and Escobar as the least deserving and Mustapha Muhammad,Booker,Williams, Marshall, and Vladez as the most deserving that aren't in.

barry · Post by **barry** » 10 Aug 2006, 07:59

Considering all the great fighters that are not in the HOF those that seem questionable to me are the following:

Ken Buchanan
Michael Carbajal
Jeff Chandler
Curtis Cokes
Humberto Gonzalez
Ingemar Johansson
Ismael Laguna
Nicolino Locche
Duilio Loi
Barry McGuigan
Ken Norton
Carlos Palomino
Laszlo Papp
Edwin Rosario
Jose Torres
James J. Braddock
Eugene Criqui
Harry Harris
Jess Willard

Although these guys did have successful careers, they honestly do not have resumes that are HOF worthy in my opinion and in most cases the fighter only really won one, or two really important fights in they’re career, well not just an important fight, but a HOF worthy fight...which most of these fighters are lacking in with the exception of one, or two and I just don't think that one, or two fights makes a fighter worthy of the HOF!

Now I really enjoyed watching several of these fighters, especially Rosario, McGuigan and Carbajal, but they just did not have HOF careers in my opinion…not compared to guys like Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall and a slew of others...out of all, Rosario, Loi and Locche probably had the best resume. As I said, considering all the great who should be in the HOF, I question the validity of those listed above.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 10 Aug 2006, 08:00

silkov wrote:
Ambling Alp wrote:The International boxing Hall of Fame is better than many other Hall of Fames as far as who gets in. ( For a list of fighters that are in, you can go to http://www.ibhof.com) However, there obviously have been some mistakes.
There are always going to be some borderline cases where two guys are about even and only is in. Maybe you agree with their choice but if you don't you can atleast understand the reasoning.
However, there a few fighters that aren't in that are much better than some who are in.

Who do guys think definitely should be in that aren't, and who definitley shouldn't be but are?
It's easy to name a bunch of fighters and say they should be in, but who shouldn't?
So for every fighter that you vote for who isn't in but should be, name someone who is in and shouldn't be.

I have 5 guys that I don't think have any case for being in. (You may want to pick more or less).

Jess Willard
Jimmy Braddock
Benny Bass
Pinpo Cuevas
Sixto Escobar

The most worthy who aren't in are:
Eddie Booker
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall
Dwight Qawi
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad

What do you guys think? It will be interesting to see who people vote for.
I think both Bass and Cuevas deserve their places in the hall... Bass was one of the toughest fighters of his era and Cuevas was awesome in his prime but gets underrated these days because people mainly remember him for losing to Hearns and Duran... watch him dismantle Weston, Gray and Ranzany and tell me he doesnt belong in the hall...

Both Bass and Cuevas have more reason to be in the hall than Quawi and Muhammad... I wouldnt begrudge Quawi a place in the hall but Muhammad was a lazy fighter with a bit of dog in him and he despite all his talent he doesnt belong in the hall...

My problem with Cuevas is that he only had two fights against great opponents and both times he wasn't beaten, he got crushed. He was only 35-15, (though you could cut him some slack for some of the losses early in his career when he was young) and it just doesnt seem tome that wins over guys like Ranzany, Grey and Weston are enough to make you a Hall of Famer.
Maybe you get me to change my mind on Bass, but if you look at his record, he seems to lose every time he fought a great fighter.
Mustapha Muhammad had a great career. He beat Saad Muhammad who is inte Hall of Fame, Marvin Johnson who you could make a strong case for being in. Both Saad and Johnson were much better than anyone that Cuevas ever beat. Even when Mustapha lost, he was never crushed like Cuevas was. Maybe with talent, Mustapha could been alittle better, but the bottom line is that he had a Hall of Fame career.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 12 Aug 2006, 10:14

I agree with the most guys that Barry thinks are questionable, but I didn't really consider Locche a questionable pick at all.
I'm not surprised that he picked Norton ,other people think he is questionable as well, but I don't.
I was a little surprised that Barry mentioned Jose Torres though, I haven't heard anyone question his selection before.

There are always going to be "questionable picks";
For example Ken Buchanan is in and Esteban DeJesus isn't; and they seem pretty even. However I realize that you have to draw the line somewhere, so I can live with that.
What bothers me is the guys who really don't seem to have a case at all;
i.e. Willard, Braddock, Escobar etc.
Voters selected them instead of guys that were certainly better.

Is there someone else who isn't in that you guys think should have been voted in, instead of a specific guy that was?

theone · Post by **theone** » 12 Aug 2006, 10:39

I was a little surprised that Barry mentioned Jose Torres though, I haven't heard anyone question his selection before.

I dont think Torres has any business in the hall of fame either. Three title defenses and wins over two other questionable hall of famers should not get you in.

I think Myung woo Yuh should and will eventually get in. Dont really understand whats taking so long.

Orlando Canizales dominated his weight class to long not to get in.

You can make a case for Brian Mitchell I guess.

Two guys I would selfishly( they most likely dont deserve it)like to see in is Jerry Quarry and Sung Kil-Moon. I'm a huge fan of them both.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 14 Aug 2006, 18:56

You guys might be right about Torres. I never really questioned his belonging before. However, his competition really wasn't that good. He also lost to Tiger twice, who was a great fighter but probably not a great lightheavy.
Still Torres has to be better than some guys who are in.