Is Canelo one of the Greatest of all time?

[ironbeard]

Remember that Rocky Fielding and Yildrim were within that timeframe. Not sure about Amir Khan or JCC Jr. It wasn't like he fought the top guys every fight. The guys Floyd fought, basically all you mentioned were #1 or #2 ranked welters at the time, aside from Berto. Canelo was young in ageb but was a 43 fight veteran when he fought Floyd.

One thing that gave Canelo the illusion he could beat Bivol was when he beat a semi shot Kovelev with a rehydration clause. He turned down $40 mil to fight Andrade and got $35 mil for Kovalev.

I wouldn't bet against Canelo in a rematch. There are adjustments he can make to beat Bivol.

i think bivol is just wrong for canelo, but i defo think on a better night that canelo could win another round or two - might be all he needs to get the win considering he only won a legit 2-3 rounds yet still almost got a draw

if i was bivol and thinking competively rather than just financially, i would be super weary of fighting canelo again, because the bar is set so low for canelo to get the decision. dimmy pretty much dominated and only got the absolute minimum 115-113 win.

If they rematch Bivol should negotiate for 4x his first fight purse. If they refuse him, take your market value to the unification bout.

[oogiebe]

Remember that Rocky Fielding and Yildrim were within that timeframe. Not sure about Amir Khan or JCC Jr. It wasn't like he fought the top guys every fight. The guys Floyd fought, basically all you mentioned were #1 or #2 ranked welters at the time, aside from Berto. Canelo was young in ageb but was a 43 fight veteran when he fought Floyd.

One thing that gave Canelo the illusion he could beat Bivol was when he beat a semi shot Kovelev with a rehydration clause. He turned down $40 mil to fight Andrade and got $35 mil for Kovalev.

I wouldn't bet against Canelo in a rematch. There are adjustments he can make to beat Bivol.

Of course you are right about Canelo winning. He was one round away from a draw in this fight. Whether he deserves the win is another thing. Well known corrupt judges. The scores were as inaccurate as the fight with Floyd, and all 3 judges should be banned. Neither were all that close. Smh

LMFAO! Not considering biased scoring.

[Bandog]

I wouldn't bet against Canelo in a rematch. There are adjustments he can make to beat Bivol.

Of course you are right about Canelo winning. He was one round away from a draw in this fight. Whether he deserves the win is another thing. Well known corrupt judges. The scores were as inaccurate as the fight with Floyd, and all 3 judges should be banned. Neither were all that close. Smh

LMFAO! Not considering biased scoring.

I honestly can't see Canelo legitimately winning vs Bivol. Maybe if Bivol is sick, weight drained, drugged? It can happen if you spend enough money.

[oogiebe]

Of course you are right about Canelo winning. He was one round away from a draw in this fight. Whether he deserves the win is another thing. Well known corrupt judges. The scores were as inaccurate as the fight with Floyd, and all 3 judges should be banned. Neither were all that close. Smh

LMFAO! Not considering biased scoring.

I honestly can't see Canelo legitimately winning vs Bivol. Maybe if Bivol is sick, weight drained, drugged? It can happen if you spend enough money.

I can see it. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. And again, not referring to any questionable scoring.

[margaret thatcher]

LMFAO! Not considering biased scoring.

I honestly can't see Canelo legitimately winning vs Bivol. Maybe if Bivol is sick, weight drained, drugged? It can happen if you spend enough money.

I can see it. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. And again, not referring to any questionable scoring.

how did you score the fight?

tbh, i think it's a bad sign for canelo that bivol won the last 3 convincingly. canelo didnt show any signs that he was figuring things out in there. whereas the first ggg fight, id say he ended well

[coneye]

Think the fight done Canelo more harm than we relize , in the fact that it took away that invincibility aura he had and people now relize he's not god , judges will not be has afraid to go against him has much , and i do think they have always had it in the back of there mind , CANELO MUST WIN IF WE WANT TO WORK HERE AGAIN

[Bandog]

To me, the closest anyone honest scoring could give Canelo 4 rounds, and 3 of those could have went either way.

For Canelo fans 8-4 Bivol
For Bivol fans/Canelo haters 11-1.

Personally, not sure even the 9th was all that clear for Canelo, but most do.

[oogiebe]

I honestly can't see Canelo legitimately winning vs Bivol. Maybe if Bivol is sick, weight drained, drugged? It can happen if you spend enough money.

I can see it. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. And again, not referring to any questionable scoring.

how did you score the fight?

tbh, i think it's a bad sign for canelo that bivol won the last 3 convincingly. canelo didnt show any signs that he was figuring things out in there. whereas the first ggg fight, id say he ended well

It wasn't close. I didn't score it rd by rd, but it wasn't close.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Canelo isnt beating bivol without a robbery. He was soundly beaten.

Someone mentioned wright v mosley. Apt comparison. Bivol was a little better than most thought and his style was all wrong for canelo

[caldo2025]

Floyd, to be fair, actually was pretty quick to go after the big swinging dick after moving up to a new weight class. Second lightweight opponent was WBC champ Castillo (who'd beaten Stevie Johnston twice, but for a scorecard error). Second welterweight opponent was IBF champ Judah (who'd beaten Spinks), followed by WBC/IBA/IBO champ Baldomir (who'd beaten Judah). First light middleweight fights were P4P legacy match with De la Hoya, then WBC/WBA champ Canelo (who'd beaten Mosley, Trout, and Cintron).

All due respect, we aren’t talking apples/apples. Canelo’s hit list over the last 5 years is honestly unparalleled imo. The issue is that fans forget about how fantastic these boxers were prior to Canelo defeating them so fantastically. C. Smith was on many legitimate P4P lists after becoming lineal champ at 168. The beating Canelo put on him was brutal. He hugged for 5 rounds to be able to brag at Sunday dinner but has only one fight since and will never see the limelight again. Kovalev, BJS, Plant and GGG fights. Come on, man. In no stretch has Floyd, or anyone else for that matter, rifled through such a gauntlet like Canelo has the last 5 years.

Again, I’m no Canelo fan but I have to admire what he’s done. And one more again, I am betting on Canelo to beat Bivol if that fight proceeds to be made instead of GGG.

I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.

Are you actually saying that those Floyd wins is anywhere in the ballpark with Canelo’s last 5 years? Cotto and Mosely could be the most overrated fighters in history. Ortiz, Berto, Chino and Guerrero? Laughable. The only fight remotely close to one of Canelo’s wins was Pacman and we all know why Floyd took that fight well after he should have and there were some very sketchy things Floyd was caught doing for that fight.

The other people wondering why we are comparing the two is bc they were the last two true P4P kings of Boxing. Why wouldn’t comparisons be made and compared?

[Bandog]

All due respect, we aren’t talking apples/apples. Canelo’s hit list over the last 5 years is honestly unparalleled imo. The issue is that fans forget about how fantastic these boxers were prior to Canelo defeating them so fantastically. C. Smith was on many legitimate P4P lists after becoming lineal champ at 168. The beating Canelo put on him was brutal. He hugged for 5 rounds to be able to brag at Sunday dinner but has only one fight since and will never see the limelight again. Kovalev, BJS, Plant and GGG fights. Come on, man. In no stretch has Floyd, or anyone else for that matter, rifled through such a gauntlet like Canelo has the last 5 years.

Again, I’m no Canelo fan but I have to admire what he’s done. And one more again, I am betting on Canelo to beat Bivol if that fight proceeds to be made instead of GGG.

I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.

Are you actually saying that those Floyd wins is anywhere in the ballpark with Canelo’s last 5 years? Cotto and Mosely could be the most overrated fighters in history. Ortiz, Berto, Chino and Guerrero? Laughable. The only fight remotely close to one of Canelo’s wins was Pacman and we all know why Floyd took that fight well after he should have and there were some very sketchy things Floyd was caught doing for that fight.

The other people wondering why we are comparing the two is bc they were the last two true P4P kings of Boxing. Why wouldn’t comparisons be made and comparedquotquot]

Like I've said before, Floyd generally fought guys that were at the time ranked very high if not #1 at welter at the time he fought them. When JMM challenged him, he was #2pfp behind Pac.
If you disregard all of that, Floyd, a 36yr old welter totally schooled a young, but 43 fight veteran Canelo. Floyd wasn't even a big welter, and was past his prime.
Canelo was again schooled vs Bivol, whom I doubt is in, or will be in any atg conversations. Bivol beat him with skill and technique, not size.
Btw, I predict Canelo retires by the end of 2023. He'll fight GGG in the fall, then Bivol or maybe Charlo. He won't fight Benividez, Andrade, or David Morell. He'd lose all 3.
Every great boxer has their limits, and bad style match ups.

[oogiebe]

I like this comment but you can’t compare what Floyd did in 5 years and what Canelo has done in 5 years,
In 5 years Floyd fought Berto, Pacquiao, Maidana 2x, Canelo, Guererro, Cotto, Ortiz and Mosley.
But yeah Canelo definitely 3rd best fighter p4p in last 20 years.

Are you actually saying that those Floyd wins is anywhere in the ballpark with Canelo’s last 5 years? Cotto and Mosely could be the most overrated fighters in history. Ortiz, Berto, Chino and Guerrero? Laughable. The only fight remotely close to one of Canelo’s wins was Pacman and we all know why Floyd took that fight well after he should have and there were some very sketchy things Floyd was caught doing for that fight.

The other people wondering why we are comparing the two is bc they were the last two true P4P kings of Boxing. Why wouldn’t comparisons be made and compared

Like I've said before, Floyd generally fought guys that were at the time ranked very high if not #1 at welter at the time he fought them. When JMM challenged him, he was #2pfp behind Pac.
If you disregard all of that, Floyd, a 36yr old welter totally schooled a young, but 43 fight veteran Canelo. Floyd wasn't even a big welter, and was past his prime.
Canelo was again schooled vs Bivol, whom I doubt is in, or will be in any atg conversations. Bivol beat him with skill and technique, not size.
Btw, I predict Canelo retires by the end of 2023. He'll fight GGG in the fall, then Bivol or maybe Charlo. He won't fight Benividez, Andrade, or David Morell. He'd lose all 3.
Every great boxer has their limits, and bad style match ups.

There I fixed it.

[Trent]

For those who dont understand, my post is sarcastic, Hagler is ATG, but if you are wanna hate somebody, you can find a reason

Ali:
- gets title by beating probable 40 year old, wins rematch in obvious fixed fight w/"phantom" punch
- fights nobodies for next several years
- quits for 3 years
- comes back and almost immediately is beaten twice
- wins title back on fluke due to extreme heat in Africa wearing down his opponent
- "wins" several more fights that were decisions gifted to him
- loses to guy with 7 wins
- loses his last two fights where he wasn't even remotely competitive

This Ali guy should not be considered an ATG

Exactly!!! There isn't a fighter in history that you can't p1ss on if you simply want to dig out the negatives

Can we do the same sugar Ray Robinson's career?

[fanman]

Lennox lewis: holyfield and tyson way past their prime, losing to klitschko when a freak eye injury stopped fight, kod against journeyman mccall and pedestrian rahman, arguably lost to mercer....

you can do it for anyone. And lewis was the greatest.

[fanman]

Think the fight done Canelo more harm than we relize , in the fact that it took away that invincibility aura he had and people now relize he's not god , judges will not be has afraid to go against him has much , and i do think they have always had it in the back of there mind , CANELO MUST WIN IF WE WANT TO WORK HERE AGAIN

Yeah, hes still an u disputed champ though, doesnt really belong at lhw.

[fanman]

Canelo is great. 4 weight world champ. 3 weight ring mag champ.
Great skills displayed. And more to come ...

Not the greatest, but great nonetheless.

[Mexi-Box]

Canelo tried much, much harder than Mayweather who took fights past their due date. Mayweather wouldn't have moved up to 160 to fight Golovkin or Sergio Martinez. It would've never happened.

He was scared of a small Filipino ffs, and juiced to the gills when they finally met. Went safety first against a one-armed Pacquiao.

[Ruthless-RKO]

He’s not wrong

[Bandog]

He’s not wrong

I agree with most of what is said in this article.
https://www.boxingnews24.com/2022/05/ca ... -rankings/

[RScarf1]

Great article and a lot of the comments are too. It has been mentioned on this forum that Canelo has accomplished so much and this article reflects the opposite point of view. So Canelo thinks he is still pound for pound number one. We’ll see after the Golovkin fight. I knew he wouldn’t immediately fight Bivol again. Canelo is predictably choosing the lesser of two evils, in this case evils means elite boxers. I think every pound for pound list has dropped Canelo except for the computerized BoxRec ratings.

[Thomastearns]

Great article and a lot of the comments are too. It has been mentioned on this forum that Canelo has accomplished so much and this article reflects the opposite point of view. So Canelo thinks he is still pound for pound number one. We’ll see after the Golovkin fight. I knew he wouldn’t immediately fight Bivol again. Canelo is predictably choosing the lesser of two evils, in this case evils means elite boxers. I think every pound for pound list has dropped Canelo except for the computerized BoxRec ratings.

Good article, but just look at how fast the same media that created you can later turn on you in this sport.

Glad you mentioned the comments, this one by jfoster13 stuck out for me.

"Canelo needs to get off his ego tripping. The only way he was going to get back to #1 p4p would be to rematch with Bivol and beat the brakes off of him. But that ain't happening and he's not going to get a whole lot of creds for beating an old Triple G. He better hope that a motivated GGG doesn't ground and pound on his ass. Canelo has shown himself to be a plodding power puncher. His recent successes have made him think he's invincible. This is the problem Wilder went through, thinking that he was invincible and not being able to accept that someone was better. If Canelo loses again, he's going to be mentally devastated."

--------


If that wasn't bad enough, this observation by Ashley pulled no punches.



"Tell me another fighter who is going up and down in weight, wanting to achieve different things”

Narcissist. Could Canelo be anymore self centered… We all know the only thing Canelo is trying to achieve is avoid the most dangerous fighters.

“I risk everything to keep making history when I don’t need to. So personally, I still feel I’m the best in the world”

Delusional.

Canelo is a full blown malignant narcissist with a side of delusions of granduer. He needs a therapist.

Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a solid top 10 fighter throughout his career but never #1. You can blame the media and judges for creating the grandiose self centered monster that is Canelo."

[apollo creed]

Canelo is daring to be great. He ain't a ducker or a cheap talker. This is the true.

Canelo's resume speaks for itself.

Probably his haters want to see him KTFO'ed, crippled or poor but that ain't gonna happen.

[573379]

I honestly can't see Canelo legitimately winning vs Bivol. Maybe if Bivol is sick, weight drained, drugged? It can happen if you spend enough money.

I can see it. Wouldn't surprise me one bit. And again, not referring to any questionable scoring.

how did you score the fight?

tbh, i think it's a bad sign for canelo that bivol won the last 3 convincingly. canelo didnt show any signs that he was figuring things out in there. whereas the first ggg fight, id say he ended well

bad sign yes but there is also another reasoning behind it. dude was clearly gassed out. looked to me like a weight issue

[adislav123]

canelo's power punches to the side of the arms while bivol is protecting himself with his gloves up can't be scored as landed punches.

sure they can do damage and definitely ignite the clueless crowd but must be regarded as blocked punches, caught by bivol's guard.

hearn acting like that's in any way up for discussion is absolutely stupifying.

to score a punch as landed it has to hit the head or the body not the opponent's arms.

keep this in mind while you rewatch canelo vs. bivol and you won't find a single round canelo actually won.

[RScarf1]

Canelo is trying to portray himself as a risk taker. If he knew beforehand what would happen in the Bivol fight, he never would have accepted the fight. He thought it was a low risk fight for him. He seems to want to play golf more than box, so maybe he will become a pro golf player after he retires from boxing. I don't know how good he is at golf and performance enhancers don't help as much in golf.