Is Canelo one of the Greatest of all time?

[Mexi-Box]

Canelo is trying to portray himself as a risk taker. If he knew beforehand what would happen in the Bivol fight, he never would have accepted the fight. He thought it was a low risk fight for him. He seems to want to play golf more than box, so maybe he will become a pro golf player after he retires from boxing. I don't know how good he is at golf and performance enhancers don't help as much in golf.

He isn't portraying himself as one, he is one. He didn't have to fight Trout for a Mayweather fight. He didn't have to fight Glovkin at all (compare that to Quillin, etc.), and he didn't have to fight Bivol. He also didn't for one second have to fight Lara who stunk out the entire arena.

I'm not a fan of his, but I did appreciate him being the anti-Mayweather. Sadly, "boxing fans" only appreciate undefeated records and hate on dudes daring to be great.

[margaret thatcher]

Canelo is trying to portray himself as a risk taker. If he knew beforehand what would happen in the Bivol fight, he never would have accepted the fight. He thought it was a low risk fight for him. He seems to want to play golf more than box, so maybe he will become a pro golf player after he retires from boxing. I don't know how good he is at golf and performance enhancers don't help as much in golf.

canelo unified vs trout at 22, fought mayweather just after turning 23, then lara and cotto, and then in the last 5 years he fought

bivol
kovalev
gggx2
jacobs
plant
smith
saunders


who around at the moment has surpassed this for opposition? which other elite fighter boxed 4x in 12 months like canelo did the other year? it's amazing dudes sh!t on canelo and say he's more of a golfer, while sucking the knobs of guys who wont dare to fight above c level

[RScarf1]

Canelo is trying to portray himself as a risk taker. If he knew beforehand what would happen in the Bivol fight, he never would have accepted the fight. He thought it was a low risk fight for him. He seems to want to play golf more than box, so maybe he will become a pro golf player after he retires from boxing. I don't know how good he is at golf and performance enhancers don't help as much in golf.

He isn't portraying himself as one, he is one. He didn't have to fight Trout for a Mayweather fight. He didn't have to fight Glovkin at all (compare that to Quillin, etc.), and he didn't have to fight Bivol. He also didn't for one second have to fight Lara who stunk out the entire arena.

I'm not a fan of his, but I did appreciate him being the anti-Mayweather. Sadly, "boxing fans" only appreciate undefeated records and hate on dudes daring to be great.

I don't care about undefeated records in boxing. One reason is because there are biased decisions. Canelo waited to fight Golovkin until he was 35 years old and now at 40. Also, Canelo made Jacobs and Kovalev have a rehydration clause in the contracts. Jacobs paid the fine and rehydrated fully and lost, but it was a close decision. Kovalev could not rehydrate over 185 pounds the day of the fight. Yes, Canelo fought quality opposition, but he is in a position to have contracts that are favorable to him and therefore lower his risk. Golovkin fought Jacobs too, but without a rehydration clause. And also the judges are biased in favor of Canelo. That also significantly lowers his risk of losing. It almost worked versus Bivol.

[gilgamesh]

Canelo is trying to portray himself as a risk taker. If he knew beforehand what would happen in the Bivol fight, he never would have accepted the fight. He thought it was a low risk fight for him. He seems to want to play golf more than box, so maybe he will become a pro golf player after he retires from boxing. I don't know how good he is at golf and performance enhancers don't help as much in golf.

He isn't portraying himself as one, he is one. He didn't have to fight Trout for a Mayweather fight. He didn't have to fight Glovkin at all (compare that to Quillin, etc.), and he didn't have to fight Bivol. He also didn't for one second have to fight Lara who stunk out the entire arena.

I'm not a fan of his, but I did appreciate him being the anti-Mayweather. Sadly, "boxing fans" only appreciate undefeated records and hate on dudes daring to be great.

I don't care about undefeated records in boxing. One reason is because there are biased decisions. Canelo waited to fight Golovkin until he was 35 years old and now at 40. Also, Canelo made Jacobs and Kovalev have a rehydration clause in the contracts. Jacobs paid the fine and rehydrated fully and lost, but it was a close decision. Kovalev could not rehydrate over 185 pounds the day of the fight. Yes, Canelo fought quality opposition, but he is in a position to have contracts that are favorable to him and therefore lower his risk. Golovkin fought Jacobs too, but without a rehydration clause. And also the judges are biased in favor of Canelo. That also significantly lowers his risk of losing. It almost worked versus Bivol.

All the criticism you wanna give him. Nobody in Boxing has faced stiffer competition than Canelo. That's a fact. Whether you like him or not. Tell me 1 active fighter who's faced stiffer competition.

[apollo creed]

People probably dislike Canelo bc of some controversial wins in some close fights or bc he got caught pissing hot. But realistically speaking he's the golden goose of boxing and he genertes huge amounts money.

But imagine how many fghters being in Canelo's great position would take those big risks like he does??

Canelo is daring to be great at all costs and risks. Its not easy to fight a big guy like Bivol and take those heavy punches.

[RScarf1]

All the criticism you wanna give him. Nobody in Boxing has faced stiffer competition than Canelo. That's a fact. Whether you like him or not. Tell me 1 active fighter who's faced stiffer competition.

Canelo has faced stiffer competition, but there are other things involved such as the judging and the contract clauses which are favorable to him. Boxers are willing to accept it because they want to make the money. Although Canelo overall had better opponents than any active boxer, there are others worth mentioning such as Anthony Joshua who defeated Wladimir Klitschko and lost by decision against Usyk who is currently No. 1 pound for pound by Ring Magazine.

[apollo creed]

Canelo and AJ being the golden gooses of boxing took some very risky fights which is very rare these days in boxing.

Imagine Canelo staying safe and cherrypicking ? No Lara, Trout, GGG, Jacobs, Kovalev or Bivol?

People would bash him like crazy.

[Bandog]

Canelo and AJ being the golden gooses of boxing took some very risky fights which is very rare these days in boxing.

Imagine Canelo staying safe and cherrypicking ? No Lara, Trout, GGG, Jacobs, Kovalev or Bivol?

People would bash him like crazy.

Imagine Canelo stooping low enough to fight JCC Jr, by making him drain to a 164.5 catchweight? Or fight glass chinned welterweight Khan at 155? Or Yildrim? Rocky Fielding?

Yes, Canelo has cherry picked also. Just the facts. All were within the last 5-7 years. Even the Cotto fight, who lost 2 of 4 previous fights, at 35yrs old, came close to winning. Many had it 115-113 Canelo, or 116-112. Some had Cotto winning. The official cards were nearly criminal, as usual.

[apollo creed]

Canelo and AJ being the golden gooses of boxing took some very risky fights which is very rare these days in boxing.

Imagine Canelo staying safe and cherrypicking ? No Lara, Trout, GGG, Jacobs, Kovalev or Bivol?

People would bash him like crazy.

Imagine Canelo stooping low enough to fight JCC Jr, by making him drain to a 164.5 catchweight? Or fight glass chinned welterweight Khan at 155? Or Yildrim? Rocky Fielding?

Yes, Canelo has cherry picked also. Just the facts. All were within the last 5-7 years. Even the Cotto fight, who lost 2 of 4 previous fights, at 35yrs old, came close to winning. Many had it 115-113 Canelo, or 116-112. Some had Cotto winning. The official cards were nearly criminal, as usual.

Well yeah, he had his safe fights, no doubt.

[gilgamesh]

All the criticism you wanna give him. Nobody in Boxing has faced stiffer competition than Canelo. That's a fact. Whether you like him or not. Tell me 1 active fighter who's faced stiffer competition.

Canelo has faced stiffer competition, but there are other things involved such as the judging and the contract clauses which are favorable to him. Boxers are willing to accept it because they want to make the money. Although Canelo overall had better opponents than any active boxer, there are others worth mentioning such as Anthony Joshua who defeated Wladimir Klitschko and lost by decision against Usyk who is currently No. 1 pound for pound by Ring Magazine.

When he lost to Floyd the contract clause WASN'T favorable to him.

I would really only say he got help with the judging in the Golovkin fights. I've never seen get any other really questionable decisions. All of his other wins are legit.

[giacomino]

All the criticism you wanna give him. Nobody in Boxing has faced stiffer competition than Canelo. That's a fact. Whether you like him or not. Tell me 1 active fighter who's faced stiffer competition.

Canelo has faced stiffer competition, but there are other things involved such as the judging and the contract clauses which are favorable to him. Boxers are willing to accept it because they want to make the money. Although Canelo overall had better opponents than any active boxer, there are others worth mentioning such as Anthony Joshua who defeated Wladimir Klitschko and lost by decision against Usyk who is currently No. 1 pound for pound by Ring Magazine.

When he lost to Floyd the contract clause WASN'T favorable to him.

I would really only say he got help with the judging in the Golovkin fights. I've never seen get any other really questionable decisions. All of his other wins are legit.

Been some questionable judging, like the chucklehead who scored the Money fight a draw. But the competition argument is lame. He’s fought the best competition of anyone over the past decade. Was GGG, or Kovalev, at their prime? No, but both were still quality beltholders and moving up to lt. Heavy was a huge risk. Nobody who knows boxing thought he’d walk through Bivol and some of us predicted Bivol would win that fight. The same people who criticized Canelo probably praised the first half of GGG championship career when he was fighting one soft opponent after another because everybody was “ducking” him, (editor’s note: GGG is one of my favorite fighters). How do you praise Joshua for fighting an ancient Wlad but say Canelo fought old men? To the original question, I don’t consider Canelo “one of the greatest of all time” but IMO he will rank fairly high when he’s done

[apollo creed]

If Canelo would unify the 175 lbs division with clear wins then he'd be up there in the mix in terms of greatness with RJJ, Calzaghe, Hopkins and Tarver. ATG level.

[H8Usernames]

If Canelo would unify the 175 lbs division with clear wins then he'd be up there in the mix in terms of greatness with RJJ, Calzaghe, Hopkins and Tarver. ATG level.

Are you serious?

Tarver didn't achieve one tenth of what Canelo has. Tarver isn't any all time great.

I was probably Calzaghe fan number one but Canelo has outachived Joe by miles.

As for Hopkins that's sort of a big question. Sure Canelo is a bigger star than Hopkins ever was but yeah Hopkins achieved way more than Canelo ever will I think.

And Roy, Canelo will never surpass Roy.

A recipe for greatness can be found in the Hopkins formula. Canelo has had sort of a fighters career, going up against unbeatable fighters like Floyd and GGG and then unifying 168 while capturing a title at 178 and losing to another unbeatable fighter in Bivol. For Canelo to cement his place in the history books he now needs to pick a division and stay in it for like the next 5 years while racking up defenses.

[RScarf1]

How do you praise Joshua for fighting an ancient Wlad but say Canelo fought old men?

Klitschko had what appeared to be a two year layoff, but actually it was Fury pulling out of the rematch twice. Joshua fought Klitschko at the time he was available. Canelo had a choice as to when he would fight Golovkin and he waited until Golovkin was 35. Of course, Golovkin was still formidable and even now at age 40 still is. At 36 years of age, Kovalev was nearly even with Canelo on the scorecards until the knockout in the eleventh round and had to abide by the rehydration clause or pay a penalty.

[Bandog]

If you've got a rare red headed mexican, with great boxing skills and a huge draw because of that, money rolls in.

Most of the dislike of Canelo is both his hubris type personality, selective timing/matchmaking, but most of all the blatent nearly criminal scorecards he gets in his favor.
His resume is great, but it also should include many asterists. History will be more kind to him than it should be.

[gilgamesh]

If you've got a rare red headed mexican, with great boxing skills and a huge draw because of that, money rolls in.

Most of the dislike of Canelo is both his hubris type personality, selective timing/matchmaking, but most of all the blatent nearly criminal scorecards he gets in his favor.
His resume is great, but it also should include many asterists. History will be more kind to him than it should be.

The Golovkin fights are the only ones where bad scorecards bailed him out. The 114-114 card against Mayweather was obviously atrocious, but thankfully the other 2 got it right enough to have Floyd winning.

Any other win he's got, he came by it legit.

[RScarf1]

The Golovkin fights are the only ones where bad scorecards bailed him out. The 114-114 card against Mayweather was obviously atrocious, but thankfully the other 2 got it right enough to have Floyd winning.

Any other win he's got, he came by it legit.

Are they really legitimate wins if he basically forces his opponents to accept rehydration clauses in the contract? If a boxer uses performance enhancers, does he win legitimately? You are only focusing on the judges' scores.

[gilgamesh]

The Golovkin fights are the only ones where bad scorecards bailed him out. The 114-114 card against Mayweather was obviously atrocious, but thankfully the other 2 got it right enough to have Floyd winning.

Any other win he's got, he came by it legit.

Are they really legitimate wins if he basically forces his opponents to accept rehydration clauses in the contract? If a boxer uses performance enhancers, does he win legitimately? You are only focusing on the judges' scores.

Yes they're really legitimate. You sign the contract, you accept the terms of the fight.

I don't give a sh*t about guys being on PED's. Everyone is. Some get caught. Some don't.

[Mexi-Box]

Canelo has done far more than his contemporaries, let's be honest. Golovkin didn't move up to 168 to fight Plant or Smith/Groves. Dude fought Rolls then moves back down to fight Dervyanchenko and get a questionable decision. He also fought the weakest titlest at 160 instead of Charlo. He also fought Szeremeta in a nothing fight. All divisions from 160-175 were stagnant waiting for Canelo.

I felt during this entire time that only Beterbiev has been insulated from the noise waiting for Canelo. Dude fought Gvozdyk.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

How do you praise Joshua for fighting an ancient Wlad but say Canelo fought old men?

Klitschko had what appeared to be a two year layoff, but actually it was Fury pulling out of the rematch twice. Joshua fought Klitschko at the time he was available. Canelo had a choice as to when he would fight Golovkin and he waited until Golovkin was 35. Of course, Golovkin was still formidable and even now at age 40 still is. At 36 years of age, Kovalev was nearly even with Canelo on the scorecards until the knockout in the eleventh round and had to abide by the rehydration clause or pay a penalty.

- Maybe you don't follow boxing.

Canelo like Golovkin in the Floyd sweepstakes lottery, but the little feller wanted nothing doing with either at that point as he was in the McG phase of his retirement farce. Canelo's entire matchmaking like the first time he fought Floyd was designed to shame him into that fight, this time by going after Cotto's new middle title fought at Cotto's 155 catchweight with both still in the Floyd Lotto. After Cotto he beat the guy who won Floyd's poll as to who he'd fight next, Khan. The Junior son of Crack Daddy went back on his pledge to fans to fight the loser, Maidana much to the loss of his already soiled reputation.

So Canelo drops a pound to go after the Smith title, all to no avail as Golovkin's Floyd offer was, so then on to Golovkin in a fantastic match up soiled by the usual dimwits who never learned how to score a fight who scream about every other fight score or even KOs every week. That beacon of The Order of Shining Knights of Fights, the Vegas Commish, who stand accused of prefilling in Canelo scorecards goes and suspends Canelo for ghost nano traces of Clen consistent with VADA non failing guidelines of local food contamination. Golovkin stupidly supported the suspension, cutting his own throat by delaying the rematch where he got beat up definitively. All the while Canelo is embroiled in a $5 mil lawsuit from his original signing with Oscar at age 18 that he loses, and the WBC who was trying to dictate his purses with mandatories, ie the Golovkin rematch.

But wait, wait, how could Kov be near Canelo on the prefilled scorecards our local dimwits always scream about? Kov was never over 185 on fight night near as I could tell, and if he pays the penalty, he doesn't have to abide by the weight, a weight incentive bonus, so you just promulgating another baseless claim like all the rest of the ninnies in cyber space.

Monkeys couldn't even enjoy Canelo getting beat by Bivol they were screaming so much about the scoring like a giggle of prepubescent ice skating moms after every competition. Must really suck to be against Canelo for you guys

[RScarf1]

How do you praise Joshua for fighting an ancient Wlad but say Canelo fought old men?

Klitschko had what appeared to be a two year layoff, but actually it was Fury pulling out of the rematch twice. Joshua fought Klitschko at the time he was available. Canelo had a choice as to when he would fight Golovkin and he waited until Golovkin was 35. Of course, Golovkin was still formidable and even now at age 40 still is. At 36 years of age, Kovalev was nearly even with Canelo on the scorecards until the knockout in the eleventh round and had to abide by the rehydration clause or pay a penalty.

- Maybe you don't follow boxing.

Canelo like Golovkin in the Floyd sweepstakes lottery, but the little feller wanted nothing doing with either at that point as he was in the McG phase of his retirement farce. Canelo's entire matchmaking like the first time he fought Floyd was designed to shame him into that fight, this time by going after Cotto's new middle title fought at Cotto's 155 catchweight with both still in the Floyd Lotto. After Cotto he beat the guy who won Floyd's poll as to who he'd fight next, Khan. The Junior son of Crack Daddy went back on his pledge to fans to fight the loser, Maidana much to the loss of his already soiled reputation.

So Canelo drops a pound to go after the Smith title, all to no avail as Golovkin's Floyd offer was, so then on to Golovkin in a fantastic match up soiled by the usual dimwits who never learned how to score a fight who scream about every other fight score or even KOs every week. That beacon of The Order of Shining Knights of Fights, the Vegas Commish, who stand accused of prefilling in Canelo scorecards goes and suspends Canelo for ghost nano traces of Clen consistent with VADA non failing guidelines of local food contamination. Golovkin stupidly supported the suspension, cutting his own throat by delaying the rematch where he got beat up definitively. All the while Canelo is embroiled in a $5 mil lawsuit from his original signing with Oscar at age 18 that he loses, and the WBC who was trying to dictate his purses with mandatories, ie the Golovkin rematch.

But wait, wait, how could Kov be near Canelo on the prefilled scorecards our local dimwits always scream about? Kov was never over 185 on fight night near as I could tell, and if he pays the penalty, he doesn't have to abide by the weight, a weight incentive bonus, so you just promulgating another baseless claim like all the rest of the ninnies in cyber space.

Monkeys couldn't even enjoy Canelo getting beat by Bivol they were screaming so much about the scoring like a giggle of prepubescent ice skating moms after every competition. Must really suck to be against Canelo for you guys

I don't follow your thinking as to what you highlighted in bold as to what I stated. It is widely believed among boxing fans and people in the boxing business that Canelo waited for Golovkin to age until 35 years old for the first fight. Regarding this upcoming third fight, it has been four years since the second fight and people also believe that Canelo intentionally delayed the third fight in order for Golovkin to age even more.

[Bandog]

All the criticism you wanna give him. Nobody in Boxing has faced stiffer competition than Canelo. That's a fact. Whether you like him or not. Tell me 1 active fighter who's faced stiffer competition.

Canelo has faced stiffer competition, but there are other things involved such as the judging and the contract clauses which are favorable to him. Boxers are willing to accept it because they want to make the money. Although Canelo overall had better opponents than any active boxer, there are others worth mentioning such as Anthony Joshua who defeated Wladimir Klitschko and lost by decision against Usyk who is currently No. 1 pound for pound by Ring Magazine.

When he lost to Floyd the contract clause WASN'T favorable to him.

I would really only say he got help with the judging in the Golovkin fights. I've never seen get any other really questionable decisions. All of his other wins are legit.

The fights vs Floyd, Lara, GGG, Trout, Cotto, and Bivol all had very questionable scorecards, to name a few. Floyd and Bivol nearly shut Canelo out, and came out with a razor thin wins. There's a decent argument that Cotto, Lara, GGG, and Trout did enough to win a close fight. It's not unusual at all to find one card in each of those fights like a 117-111, 118-110, or even worse. Well known fact in any boxing community.
This is what I am talking about with asterisks. Cotto should never had agreed to fight at 155 for his 160lb belt, but $$$ talks. Re-hydration clauses are also BS. Not sure where they came up with "open scoring for the Trout fight, but I'm sure they knew it would benefit Canelo.

So yes, even if Canelo deserves a win, it pisses people off when they look at the criminal scorecards.

[Thomastearns]

"Floyd and Bivol nearly shut Canelo out, and came out with a razor thin wins."



This is what it takes to beat boxings biggest A sider in his own Vegas back yard.

Canelo seemed genuinely surprised that he wasn't awared the win against Bivol.

Had he won just 1 more round, he would have been.

[gilgamesh]

Canelo has faced stiffer competition, but there are other things involved such as the judging and the contract clauses which are favorable to him. Boxers are willing to accept it because they want to make the money. Although Canelo overall had better opponents than any active boxer, there are others worth mentioning such as Anthony Joshua who defeated Wladimir Klitschko and lost by decision against Usyk who is currently No. 1 pound for pound by Ring Magazine.

When he lost to Floyd the contract clause WASN'T favorable to him.

I would really only say he got help with the judging in the Golovkin fights. I've never seen get any other really questionable decisions. All of his other wins are legit.

The fights vs Floyd, Lara, GGG, Trout, Cotto, and Bivol all had very questionable scorecards, to name a few. Floyd and Bivol nearly shut Canelo out, and came out with a razor thin wins. There's a decent argument that Cotto, Lara, GGG, and Trout did enough to win a close fight. It's not unusual at all to find one card in each of those fights like a 117-111, 118-110, or even worse. Well known fact in any boxing community.
This is what I am talking about with asterisks. Cotto should never had agreed to fight at 155 for his 160lb belt, but $$$ talks. Re-hydration clauses are also BS. Not sure where they came up with "open scoring for the Trout fight, but I'm sure they knew it would benefit Canelo.

So yes, even if Canelo deserves a win, it pisses people off when they look at the criminal scorecards.

Floyd and Bivol DID get the win over Canelo, so there's not much point in bringing those up. GGG deserved both wins in my opinion, I had those 2 fights scored 116-112, and 117-111 for Golovkin respectively.

I've never understood people claiming robbery on Lara and Cotto. Not at all. I had Canelo beating Lara 117-111, and I had him beating Cotto 119-109. I can't see any argument whatsoever for Cotto deserving the win over Canelo, and people that pick Lara, I feel like you're ignoring the fact that Canelo was wearing his ass out with vicious body shots throughout the fight, and those body shots were the hardest shots of the fight period.

As I recall, I did have Trout beating Canelo back in the day, but it was my a narrow enough margin that I always just brushed it off as "Ah well, way she goes" Canelo did drop Trout at least, so if it's a close one that could go either way, and you dropped the guy, that's reasonable enough.

[Ezzard]

Great fighter. Lost twice to GGG. I always thought the loss to Floyd was closer than most scored it. But it was still a clear win for Mayweather. Lost big to Bivol.

I thought he beat Lara (close). Beat Trout (clear).