Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?

[Ambling Alp II]

Yeah "bruh", that is what people were saying. He is vulnerable. Would really be trouble against Lewis and the Klitschkos. blah, blah.
Louis was back in the ring before the referee could even pick up the count.
If anyone bothers to watch the rest of the fight, they will see Louis dominate most of the rest of it.
The rematch: Louis knocked him out in the first round.

Wilder and Fury have decked several times.
Usyk has a whopping three fights at heavyweight. Fights about as often as margaret gets out out of the house.
Joshua managed to get stopped by frikkin Andy Ruiz.

But Louis got knocked down. He must be vulnerable.

[margaret thatcher]

triggered by someone simply saying nice kd

[Ambling Alp II]

You also said "ya, cuz that's exactly what's being said bruh".
You were referring to what was being said earlier, not just commenting on the knockdown.

[Caractacus]

The Heavyweights of the last 60 years move around the ring a lot more and also more mobile then during Joe Louis's era.
Louis had a lot of trouble with LH champion Billy Conn (until he caught up with him later in the fight anyway)
so he possibly may have been 'out-pointed" in a match with later more mobile HW's.

[margaret thatcher]

You also said "ya, cuz that's exactly what's being said bruh".
You were referring to what was being said earlier, not just commenting on the knockdown.

i was just commenting on the knockdown, obviously youre a bit sensitive about it

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes, it's all I ever think about.

[pound per pound]

The Heavyweights of the last 60 years move around the ring a lot more and also more mobile then during Joe Louis's era.
Louis had a lot of trouble with LH champion Billy Conn (until he caught up with him later in the fight anyway)
so he possibly may have been 'out-pointed" in a match with later more mobile HW's.

Judging by the film I saw, Walcott most certainly deserved the first fight between the two, the decision. He floored Louis twice and out pointed him during the rounds shown. The decision was so bad, the crowd loudly booed it. Joe Louis, their fighter who they saw many times in MSG. His body language was that of the loser. # Bad decison.

I agree, if these two could do it (168 pound Billy Conn ) and Walcott who lost a lot, others could decision Louis and if they have more power KO him. Conn would have beaten Louis in 12 rounds. Think about that. He was down vs the likes of Braddock, Buddy Bear and Galento. Lucky for him they would be unskilled fringe contenders today. His power bailed him out.

Good luck vs. Bowe, Lewis, the Klitschko's, and Fury, modern skilled big men. The fact that Nat Fleischer thought Louis was 6th all time ( he's been watching boxing, mostly ringside since Johnson, and the film before that ) tells me something. Maybe the old timer we better they just lack his quality film. Maybe his competition was bad. I think it's a mix of both, Still I rate Louis in the top ten all time.

Queue in Alp in 3,2,1 seconds.

[margaret thatcher]

Yes, it's all I ever think about.

hey, if that's what floats your boat, go for it my man

[Ambling Alp II]

The Heavyweights of the last 60 years move around the ring a lot more and also more mobile then during Joe Louis's era.
Louis had a lot of trouble with LH champion Billy Conn (until he caught up with him later in the fight anyway)
so he possibly may have been 'out-pointed" in a match with later more mobile HW's.

Judging by the film I saw, Walcott most certainly deserved the first fight between the two, the decision. He floored Louis twice and out pointed him during the rounds shown. The decision was so bad, the crowd loudly booed it. Joe Louis, their fighter who they saw many times in MSG. His body language was that of the loser. # Bad decison.

I agree, if these two could do it (168 pound Billy Conn ) and Walcott who lost a lot, others could decision Louis and if they have more power KO him. Conn would have beaten Louis in 12 rounds. Think about that. He was down vs the likes of Braddock, Buddy Bear and Galento. Lucky for him they would be unskilled fringe contenders today. His power bailed him out.

Good luck vs. Bowe, Lewis, the Klitschko's, and Fury, modern skilled big men. The fact that Nat Fleischer thought Louis was 6th all time ( he's been watching boxing, mostly ringside since Johnson, and the film before that ) tells me something. Maybe the old timer we better they just lack his quality film. Maybe his competition was bad. I think it's a mix of both, Still I rate Louis in the top ten all time.

Queue in Alp in 3,2,1 seconds.

Louis was clearly well past it when he fought Walcott. It's obvious on film. He missed four years because of WWII.
His power bailed him out? Well power does count, last time I checked. Outside of the knockdown, he dominated the Braddock fight. Same for the Baer fight for the most part.
Of course some of Louis' opponents were bad. (You can say that about anyone) Some were good, very good, and great.
Yes, you can cherry pick things with Louis, as you can with anyone.

Lennox Lewis (obviously a great fighter) got stopped by McCall. Knocked cold by Rahman. Lucky to get a decision against Mercer and a past his best Holyfield.
Wladimir Klitschko got stopped by Ross Purritty, Lamon Brewster, and Corrie Sanders. Talk about embarrassing. Decked 3x by Samuel Peter. Williamson knocked him down.
Vitaly couldn't get past 6 rounds a past his best Lewis. Couldn't go the distance against Chris Byrd.
Fury has been decked 3x in his last 3 fights. Also got decked by a journeyman.
Joshua got stopped by the great Andy Ruiz.

All of these guys would be getting hit more than Louis than ever had in any fight of their career. They woiuld all be in big trouble.

Always love the size argument.
KO 6 Carnera (6'5 and half, 260 )
Ko 13 Simon (6'4, 254)
DQ6 Baer (6'6 237)
KO 1 Baer (6'6 250)
KO 6 Simon (6'4 255)

Nat Fleischer? He had Schmeling rated higher than Marciano.
You can spin things to make Louis look great. Not hard to do.
Louis beat two Hall of Famers before he even got a title shot. % heavyweight Hall of Famers in all.
And we can pretend that the total amount of title defenses is a big deal. Louis had 25. Who had more?

Nice that you have Joe Louis in your top 10 heavyweights. How generous of you. Have never in my life seen him not in one, though I'm sure there are some idiots who don't.

[SteveO]

And we can pretend that the total amount of title defenses is a big deal. Louis had 25. Who had more?

Wladimir Klitschko contested versions of the title 29 times (won 25).

[pound per pound]

Guess there is no reason to watch the rest of the fight. Obviously Louis was destroyed by the much larger Baer. Rematch was probably even worse for Louis. No reason to look into this any further.

Right. We know Buddy Bear floored Louis, who was saved form the ropes form crashing outside the ring. Just don't you dare compare Buddy Bear, an Old Carnera, orAbe Simon to modern super heavyweight like Bowe, Lewis, Klitschko, Klitschko, or Fury! No, no, no.

Listing there size alone as if that solvers the problem! They wouldn't win a round vs modern super heavyweights and would be badly outclassed in route to a KO loss. So Louis beat them. He was kneed down by B Bear, lost rounds to Abe Simon, and took 6 rounds of beating an old Carnera, These goons where not his best opponents.

Rig Magazine did a rating of eras for heavyweight. The 1930's and 1940's Louis time come in dead last in the 30's. Rated the worst. At least 1940 had WW II form 1939 - 1945. So that was excusable, sort of.

[pound per pound]

Guess there is no reason to watch the rest of the fight. Obviously Louis was destroyed by the much larger Baer. Rematch was probably even worse for Louis. No reason to look into this any further.

Right. We know Buddy Bear floored Louis, who was saved form the ropes form crashing outside the ring. Just don't you dare compare Buddy Bear, an Old Carnera, or Abe Simon to modern super heavyweight like Bowe, Lewis, Klitschko, Klitschko, or Fury! No, no, no.

Listing there size alone as if that solvers the problem! They wouldn't win a round vs modern super heavyweights and would be badly outclassed in route to a KO loss. So Louis beat them. He was knocked down by B Bear, lost rounds to Abe Simon, and took 6 rounds of beating an old Carnera, These goons where not his best opponents.

Ring Magazine did a rating of eras for heavyweight. The 1930's and 1940's Louis time come in dead last in the 30's. Rated the worst. At least 1940 had WW II form 1939 - 1945. So that was excusable, sort of.

[Ambling Alp II]

Wow . I bring up embarrassing defeats for Lewis , Joshua and the Klitschkos, and your rebuttal is the knockdown against Baer and losing rounds to Simon? Wow. Getting knockdown and losing rounds is not nearly as bad as getting humiliated. Not exactly the same thing. At all.

Carnera was old when Louis beat him? He 28. Still highly ranked.

It took Louis 6 rounds to stop him? Is that supposed to be embarrassing? Gee it's hard to come up with something worse for virtually any other fighter whoever lived.

Of course I don't think Buddy Baer, Simon, and Carnera were as good as say Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis. (Yes I would dare compare them to the kickboxer) I was mocking the constant mentioning of size. It's almost pointed out when the modern fighter is bigger than than old timer. Then it gets ignored when it two old timers or the old timer is bigger than the modern fighter.

We should be talking about things like power, stamina, hand speed, work rate, punching accuracy, chin, toughness, defense etc. Joe Louis was a phenomenal fighter. Clearly would be the best today.

[Seamus]

Well for starters Louis' defense could be downright poor. How many shots did 25 year old Joe get hit with by Fat Tony Galento.

[Ambling Alp II]

Poor defense? Well at least you came up with something new.
Funny that Louis has been getting ripped for this lately. Everytime I look it up, it says he won by TKO4. How did Joshua do against fat Andy Ruiz?

[margaret thatcher]

Well for starters Louis' defense could be downright poor. How many shots did 25 year old Joe get hit with by Fat Tony Galento.

two ton tony hurt joe with the first punch of the fight, was a fun war for sure

[Ambling Alp II]

Why did it take you a whole minute to reply? Been busy again?

Yeah war. That is how it should be described.
Was Joshua -Ruiz a war?
How about fat Fury-Cunningham?

[margaret thatcher]

the post i responded to was posted well over a minute ago, maybe learn to tell time my man

i did enjoy the galento-louis war, where both men were hurt multiple times and tasted canvas. short but sweet

[Seamus]

But Ruiz outweighed Joshua. Besides, Andy's problem is diet, not boxing skills.

Would Fury have gotten caught that many times by Galento ? Would Ruiz have gone over the second rope from a punch from Buddy Baer ? Would Vitaly have gotten wobbled by Billy Conn ? Would Joshua have been eating right crosses from Max Schmeling for 12 rds ?

[Cap]

"Would Joe Louis be the best HW in the world today?" The obvious answer is YES. Usyk would last rounds against Louis, but Joe would end up the winner. As for the rest of the blubber brigade 'fighting' today, once or twice a year, it would depend on how long Joe would take to reach their chins. Louis was an elite champion, only Ali ranks close. When some of the top-rated heavyweights now are Brits it says a lot about the depth of the division, three feet wide and two inches deep. All you need to be a 'contender' these days is height over 6'4" and plenty of flab.

[Ambling Alp II]

Agreed. Obviously he wasn't perfect. He was a human being. But he was clearly a great fighter. Look at how they have nitpick Louis and ignore obvious embarrassments that other fighters had. In his long career, Louis was wobbled. Knocked down.

Somehow this is supposed to be worse than embarrassing knockouts or quitting. Wow.

[pound per pound]

Wow . I bring up embarrassing defeats for Lewis , Joshua and the Klitschkos, and your rebuttal is the knockdown against Baer and losing rounds to Simon? Wow. Getting knockdown and losing rounds is not nearly as bad as getting humiliated. Not exactly the same thing. At all.

Carnera was old when Louis beat him? He 28. Still highly ranked.

It took Louis 6 rounds to stop him? Is that supposed to be embarrassing? Gee it's hard to come up with something worse for virtually any other fighter whoever lived.

Of course I don't think Buddy Baer, Simon, and Carnera were as good as say Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis. (Yes I would dare compare them to the kickboxer) I was mocking the constant mentioning of size. It's almost pointed out when the modern fighter is bigger than than old timer. Then it gets ignored when it two old timers or the old timer is bigger than the modern fighter.

We should be talking about things like power, stamina, hand speed, work rate, punching accuracy, chin, toughness, defense etc. Joe Louis was a phenomenal fighter. Clearly would be the best today.

Why does Louis have a good chin? He was floored by Braddock, and Walcott and visibly shake up by 168 pound Conn and Tommy Far. These guys don;t hit remotely as ard as Sanders, Brewster, Mccall or Rhaman.

Wanna to debate that? Besides the good punchers he fought that landed KO him in Schmeling and Marciano

[Ambling Alp II]

Never said he had a great chin. Don't think anyone did. By heavyweight champion (not just titleholder) standards, he he had a better chin that some and worse than others.

Look at what you can say about other guys:
Fine. And Lennox Lewis got stopped by McCall and Rahman. Neither known to be a big puncher. Hurt by Mercer and Briggs.
Larry Holmes got decked and badly hurt by Renaldo Snipes.
Foreman got knocked down by Jimmy Young.
Fury has been decked three times in his last three fights. Got knocked by Steve Cunningham.
Joshua actually got stopped by frikkin Andy Ruiz.
Wilder stopped by Fury. Never fought anyone else worth mentioning.
Do we really have to go into glass jaw Wladimir Klitschko?

As for Schmeling and Marciano, the only times that he was stopped in a very long career.- Well we discussed Schmeling already. Marciano seriously? Are we going to pretend that Louis was remotely close to his prime by then?

He was knocked down three times in his prime and each time got up to win easily.
He didn't get decked by many guys who could punch: Simon, Carnera, Max Baer etc. Well past his best, he lasted 15 rounds against Charles.
Going into his last fight, Louis had been stopped a grand total one time in 70 fights over 17 years. Obviously he didn't have Ali's chin. However, obviously he had to have had a good chin.

[Seamus]

And every one of those guys you mentioned scoring knockdowns was well over 200 lbs ! And that's the point. And those flurries frikkin Andy Ruiz hit Joshua with in the 3rd and 6th rds were pretty frikkin fast and accurate.

[BoxBuzz]

It's possible he could be the "best" skilled HW if he were competing.

However, I just don't know how that honestly gets the job done against the likes of Wilder or Fury....and maybe some others.

Wilder could take him out...if Joe can't steer clear, and Fury is nearly as good as Joe in terms of a good skill set and he's a much bigger truck.

So, not sure he grabs a title.


However......if he is thoughtful, he could smash into the Cruiser or LHW division and happily dominate. He could easily stop Canelo's ongoing attempt to keep moving up.