Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Hi Roger : We've corresponded before about Robinson and gangsters-I've been doing some reading and George Gainsford was reputed to be connected to Lucky Luciano and I can't help but wonder if this is why Sugar Ray was able to reject offers to throw fights ?

I thought of Albarado right away when the news broke of the Uvalde shooting . Years ago, Albarado's son detailed his father's dementia to me and it was one of the worst cases-in terms of how young Oscar was and how long he suffered from it-that I ever heard.

Robinson was connected to the Mob in Chicago and New York when it came to "carrying" fighters.He wouldn't throw any fights and the Syndicate in New York(that's where Luciano came in)and the Outfit in Chicago(under the guises of Giancana and Accardo)respected that. However,Robinson had ho probelem letting opponents go the distance so the Mob guys could bet it that way. Robinson "carrying" Charley Fusari back east is one example. Robby carrying Bernard Docusen in Chicago is another.Really not much action nor money was made with those guys betting on Robinson.

I think that's partly what probably motivated Rick Farris to induct Albarado at the time in 2017. He also deserved to get in on his merits.



Oscar Albarado and his boys

[dagosd2000]

The Idea Is To Cause More Harm

I was watching on another thread of a boxing promoter having a heated debate with someone about "Should Boxing Be Banned?" Of course the promoter was vehement with his arguments.That's how this guy makes a living.

Boxing is the only sport I know of where if a man injures his opponent he then exploits the damage. For example if he cuts the other guy's eye,he then punches at the wound further. What a stupid barbaric sport. In any other sport if an athlete suffers an eye injury the contest is stopped. Why risk permanent damage that could result in blindness just to get a win? No.They'll work on the cut in the corner and then push their guy back out there.Or a fighter gets Ko'd in one state and the next week he gets a ten count in another state.

I used to be a fan.Not anymore.Hopefully,boxing will just fade away because of a lack of quality fighters and good fights.But then there's all this MMA stuff to take it's place. From the frying pan into the fire.

[dagosd2000]

Clear As Mud

They interviewed the father of the kid that killed all those people at that grammar school in Uvalde,Texas Tuesday. You figure you will get some insight to why he did that. Insight?Well, you have to read between the lines because what came out of the father's mouth I wouldn't take to be Gospel.Here are some interesting quotes I read in an article this morning
"I never expected my son to do something like that.He should have just killed me ,you know, instead of doing that to someone."
He didn't elaborate on that.
The dad doesn't live with the mother. He lives with his girlfriend.Nothing about why they split.
"They killed my baby man.I'm never gonna' see my son again just like they're never gonna' see their kids again and that hurts me."
Again he didn't follow that up.The article said that the father admitted he didn't spend much time with his son saying that he worked out of town and because of the pandemic.
"My mom(the father's mom)says he probably would have shot me too because he said I didn't love him."
Didn't expound on that either.
The father said he blamed the boy's mother because his son was bullied at school for wearing out of date clothes.Classmates confirmed that but said he overreacted and had an aggressive streak. He also had a speech impediment.The article went on to say that the father has a "lengthy criminal record which includes assault on a family member(his daughter)."The wife and daughter were not quoted;the wife not responding to be interviewed;the daughter being in the Navy.

The father said he was speaking out because"I want his story out there.I don't want them calling him a monster.They don't know nothing man.They don't know what he was going through."
When the father was asked if he saw any red flags regarding his son's behavior he said that he saw a pair of boxing gloves in his room.

It always seems when something like this happens and you start investigating the probable reasons and causes it all becomes a big enigma wrapped in a puzzle.A pair of boxing gloves?Well, that certainly covers it.

[dagosd2000]

The Italian Connection

When Jose Napoles went to Syracuse,New York to defend his welterweight title against Billy Backus I don't think Jose thought he would have any trouble keeping his crown on his head even if the scrap was in Backus' backyard.Backus was a decent fighter,but he wasn't in the top echelon of 147 pound contenders.Prior to taking on Jose, Billy's claims to fame was a decision win over the trial horse Manny Gonzalez and two going the full ten against Percy Pugh, both victories.He had also lost a decision to the New Orleans fighter. They could have made it a non title scrap. They still a o lot of those kinds of fights back then .But i guess the powers to be in Syracuse wanted their boy to fight for something worth having.It was part of the deal.

I remember seeing the fight on TV. Napoles,who was usually a fast starter,came out to center ring more deliberately than usual.I don't think it was because Jose had a case of the nerves.I think it was because maybe he was too relaxed. I mean this kid Backus wasn't much of a threat. The only thing he had going for him was the hometown crowd and his uncle,Carmen Basilio,working his corner. But that wasn't anything to make Napoles wet his trunks over.He'd gone into the other guy's burg before(like the time he traveled to Caracas to take on Carlos Hernandez in front of all those rowdy Venezuelans.Jose had gotten up off the deck and then sent Carlos to the hospital later)Naw.This would be deja vu all over again for Mantequilla.

However,what Napoles hadn't expected was that Backus ,during the 3rd frame, clashed heads with the champ and when they separated Jose's face was a bloody mess. The old cut over his eye that he sustained against L.C. Morgan years earlier had reopened and spread across to the other eye. The crowd was going ape. s--t. They sensed the title swapping hands in favor of their little Guillermo.Napoles tried to pull out all the stops.He started throwing right hand leads against the southpaw however midway through the 4th the doc was summoned. He looked at the eye.He could see Jose's skull between the flesh. The pasta and wine flowed in Syracuse that night.

There was a rematch clause in the contract and of course Jose wanted to get that title belt back where it belonged-around his waist.The rematch was in the LA Forum. When the bell rang for the opening round it wasn't ten seconds and Napoles's cut reopened.I said to myself."Here we go again." But Jose,cool as a rum and Coca Cola,paused for a second,pawed with his glove on the eye,looked at it,and then went on like nothing had happened.I mean Napoles, with that big tomcat head and bushy bigote,had that impassive face that never quivered .He was the grace under pressure guy. By the time the 8th round rolled around Billy was spent and HIS face was all cut up.Jose was the champ again as the mariachis came into the ring and the aficianados slapped that big sombrero on Jose's head.The firecrackers were going off and I could see that Carmen Basilio was pissed off.

The next day they had the replay of the fight on the tube.I wanted to watch it again.Well, I'm sitting in front of the TV when my old man walks in.
"What are you watching?"he asked.
"The replay of last night's fight between Jose Napoles and Billy Backus."
My father was squinting at the screen.
"Isn't that Carmen Basilio?"
"Yeah,he was in Backus' corner.Backus is his nephew."
Well, Carmen Basilio carried as much weight with my father as Rocky Marciano. Maybe even more.You see Carmen was a Marine like my dad in the big war and had beaten Sugar Ray Robinson,and of course they were paisans..
"Well Backus will beat this guy if Carmen is in his corner.They're both Italian."
"I told you this is a replay of the fight that was yesterday.Napoles won."
"You watch,"said my father."No Merxican is going to beat an Italian especially if Carmen is in his corner."
"Just because you're Italian and so is Basilio that means his nephew is going to win.I told you this is a replay."
"You watch and see. Basilio is Napoletano like me .He knows what he's doing."
I gave up. We watched Napoles' destruction of Billy Backus round by round until the bitter end.Now I was waiting for my old man's next move.
"Who did you say that other fella' is?"
"Jose Napoles."
"Napolles?Well, then he 's from Naples.No wonder he won."
Good grief.


Jose Napoles

[dagosd2000]

A View Of The City

The night I saw Baby Vasquez fight in Tijuana at the Jai Alai Palace I wanted to get fortified beforehand. I don't think I ever saw a fight in person when i wasn't lit up a little. The standard routine was I'd smoke a joint in my car driving around. In Tijuana I'd take the back streets and drive around and smoke a joint hoping a cop car wouldn't cross paths. Tijuana could be tricky because you could get in trouble for not doing anything wrong. If a cop smelled marijuana on my breath that could mean a trip to the Tijuana jail and shake me down for everything I had. Or if a quick bribe would get me out of the jam then the few bucks here and there was well worth it.Anyway that night I drove around and smoked the joint getting that all alone feeling like I was wrapped in some kind of cocoon and all by myself.

I parked the car in a lot a few blocks away from the Jai Alai Palace off Revolution Street. I had another joint in my wallet that I wanted to save for later after the fights were over.But I didn't want to suffice on just getting buzzed on marijuana. To get a kick I went to farmacia on the corner that had the usual candy jars on the counter filed with benzedrines.I told the druggist that I wanted two bennies so he got out these tweezers and pulled two of the pills and put them inside a small plastic bag. I think the total came to something like 50 cents.

But then I had to have something to wash them down with so I walked across the street to one of my hangouts,The OId Heidelburg Restaurant. In al the years I frequented that joint I never ate in the restaurant downstairs. The place was owned by a German family who had come over from Germany during World War One. The place was supposed to have great German food but I never got around to trying any of it. When I'd go I'd walk up a flight of stairs to the upstairs ,I guess you would call it,veranda. There you could sit and order a drink and listen to this Latin type jazz music. The view looked out across the city.At night ,with all the neon lights flashing, the aura was entrancing.I always smelled that Mexican gas smell mixed with the aroma of manteca cooking from all the little taco stands along the street.The hustlers, outside the clubs trying to entice the sailors and the kids from across the border with offerings like "You want to f--k my sister, would punctuate the rhythms behind the cacophony with their salty banter

The band began to play.It was the house band,The Jaime Davis Trio. The group comprised of vibes, piano and percussion. They played with a delicate kind sound that blended with the surroundings.I found a small round table in the corner near the bandstand by the rail. The waiter came over and I ordered a bottle of Bohemia and washed down the bennies with the first big swig.The crowd was sparse and quiet.THe ceiling was low,the room dark.I could have sat there all night listening to the band play; my thoughts drifting getting lost in a dream.But I wanted to get to get to The Jai Alai Palace.I had always wanted to see Baby Vasquez fight.At the time he was nearing the end of his career.He was a living legend.

Vasquez carried this guy who I found out later had had only a few fights under his belt.He was swinging at air most of the night and Vasquez got his hand raised at the end. I left The Jai Alai Palace satisfied.But I didn't want t go home yet. The night was still young. I went back to the farmacia on the corner and got another bennie and a couple of Darvons to bring me down later.I walked back upstairs to the veranda at The Old Heidelburg and found my seat still waiting for me.

I lost track of time and before I knew it I could see the sun pink the sky over the foothills lighting a lazy haze over the city. I was the only one left sitting in the veranda. The band had gone home.Empty beer bottles were strewn on the table.The waiter came over and said he was closing.

I found my way back to my car but instead of going home I slept it off in the back seat.Besides ,I still had that joint left.However, I didn't want to take any chances.You never know about those Tijuana cops.


The Old Heidelburg. They tore it down 50 years ago.


Black Orchid=Cal Tjader
This is the kind of music that was featured at The Old Heidelburg


Baby Vasquez

[scartissue]

A View Of The City

The night I saw Baby Vasquez fight in Tijuana at the Jai Alai Palace I wanted to get fortified beforehand. I don't think I ever saw a fight in person when i wasn't lit up a little. The standard routine was I'd smoke a joint in my car driving around. In Tijuana I'd take the back streets and drive around and smoke a joint hoping a cop car wouldn't cross paths. Tijuana could be tricky because you could get in trouble for not doing anything wrong. If a cop smelled marijuana on my breath that could mean a trip to the Tijuana jail and shake me down for everything I had. Or if a quick bribe would get me out of the jam then the few bucks here and there was well worth it.Anyway that night I drove around and smoked the joint getting that all alone feeling like I was wrapped in some kind of cocoon and all by myself.

I parked the car in a lot a few blocks away from the Jai Alai Palace off Revolution Street. I had another joint in my wallet that I wanted to save for later after the fights were over.But I didn't want to suffice on just getting buzzed on marijuana. To get a kick I went to farmacia on the corner that had the usual candy jars on the counter filed with benzedrines.I told the druggist that I wanted two bennies so he got out these tweezers and pulled two of the pills and put them inside a small plastic bag. I think the total came to something like 50 cents.

But then I had to have something to wash them down with so I walked across the street to one of my hangouts,The OId Heidelburg Restaurant. In al the years I frequented that joint I never ate in the restaurant downstairs. The place was owned by a German family who had come over from Germany during World War One. The place was supposed to have great German food but I never got around to trying any of it. When I'd go I'd walk up a flight of stairs to the upstairs ,I guess you would call it,veranda. There you could sit and order a drink and listen to this Latin type jazz music. The view looked out across the city.At night ,with all the neon lights flashing, the aura was entrancing.I always smelled that Mexican gas smell mixed with the aroma of manteca cooking from all the little taco stands along the street.The hustlers, outside the clubs trying to entice the sailors and the kids from across the border with offerings like "You want to f--k my sister, would punctuate the rhythms behind the cacophony with their salty banter

The band began to play.It was the house band,The Jaime Davis Trio. The group comprised of vibes, piano and percussion. They played with a delicate kind sound that blended with the surroundings.I found a small round table in the corner near the bandstand by the rail. The waiter came over and I ordered a bottle of Bohemia and washed down the bennies with the first big swig.The crowd was sparse and quiet.THe ceiling was low,the room dark.I could have sat there all night listening to the band play; my thoughts drifting getting lost in a dream.But I wanted to get to get to The Jai Alai Palace.I had always wanted to see Baby Vasquez fight.At the time he was nearing the end of his career.He was a living legend.

Vasquez carried this guy who I found out later had had only a few fights under his belt.He was swinging at air most of the night and Vasquez got his hand raised at the end. I left The Jai Alai Palace satisfied.But I didn't want t go home yet. The night was still young. I went back to the farmacia on the corner and got another bennie and a couple of Darvons to bring me down later.I walked back upstairs to the veranda at The Old Heidelburg and found my seat still waiting for me.

I lost track of time and before I knew it I could see the sun pink the sky over the foothills lighting a lazy haze over the city. I was the only one left sitting in the veranda. The band had gone home.Empty beer bottles were strewn on the table.The waiter came over and said he was closing.

I found my way back to my car but instead of going home I slept it off in the back seat.Besides ,I still had that joint left.However, I didn't want to take any chances.You never know about those Tijuana cops.


The Old Heidelburg. They tore it down 50 years ago.


Black Orchid=Cal Tjader
This is the kind of music that was featured at The Old Heidelburg


Baby Vasquez

That was cool, Rog. I always love the way you write a story. Felt like I was on the veranda with you downing a Modelo or Tecate. Memorial Day, my man. Time to eat and drink with neighborhood Barbecues wafting through the area while reminiscing on those that passed before us. Take it easy, dude.

[dagosd2000]

Semper Fi

I forget who the guy was interviewing Carmen Basilio but he asked him what was his proudest accomplishment.The guy was some sort of Brit and he had this air about him like he was in command. I think he was expecting to hear a discourse about one of Carmen's fights.Howver, Basilio responded about his time he served in the Marine Corps in World War 2.It was"my most proudest moment".It was automatic.He'd probably been asked the same question before ,without the stipulation about any of his fights,and he always gave the same response.The guy interviewing sounded a little miffed.;like he should have clarified the question regarding one of Basilio's fights but didn't think it was necessary.But he was talking to a Marine who had hit the beach in the Pacific.
"I mean one of your fights,"the guy went on sounding a little deflated.
I think Carmen was starting to get a little tired of this guy by this time.
"You didn't ask me about any fight.You asked me about what I was most proud of,"Basilio said in a dago rough voice shifting his weight in his chair leaning away from the guy.
"I want to know what fight gave you the most gratification?"
" I guess you could say winning the middleweight championship was gratifying,"Basilio said in a halfhearted voice looking down at the floor.
"That was your fight with Sugar Ray Robinson."
"Yeah.Everyone knows that."
"Well,what was that like?"said the guy trying to re establish his control.
"He was tough.Had a long reach.Was tall."
Basilio left him with that.The dude didn't pursue anything more.Then Basilio shot back
"I knew that after serving in the Marines I could go on and win that championship I always dreamed of."
The interview was over.

[dagosd2000]

That was cool, Rog. I always love the way you write a story. Felt like I was on the veranda with you downing a Modelo or Tecate. Memorial Day, my man. Time to eat and drink with neighborhood Barbecues wafting through the area while reminiscing on those that passed before us. Take it easy, dude.

[dagosd2000]

Keeel Eeem Coleeema!

Bert Colima was the first Chicano fighter from East LA to gain a following in the City Of The Angels.Born in Whittier,he fought in every arena in and around Los Angeles. He amassed over 200 fights When The Olympic Auditorium was constructed in 1925 a huge mural of Colima graced above the main door of the arena.Shows you how time passes. When I used to go to the fights at The Olympic in the late 60's and 70's and wait outside to get in I'd ask another fan in line "Who is that fighter above the door?" Nobody could come up with the right answer.. Colima hung up his gloves in 1933. Maybe I didn't ask the oldest looking guy standing in line. to get get in.

Today I went to Tijuana to gas up my car.Afterwards, I parked my car downtown and took a walk up 3rd Street to buy my "Te De Jamaica"(Hibiscus tea) at the mercado across the street from the Guadalupe Church. I passed by the Tijuana Historical Center. I've been inside before.There's really not anything noteworthy to mention.Kind of sparse and disappointing.However,outside the building encased in glass is an old print of a photograph of Bert Colima knocking out a gringo fighter by the name of Jack Moore. It's dated 1928. Printed on the picture it read that the bout took place inside an outdoor arena in the downtown area between 3rd and 4th Streets.No name of the venue.

Frank Baltazar told me about the times that his father would reminisce about going to The Olympic and watch Colima fight.Everyone would be on their feet yelling "Keeel eeem Coleeema!"

Too bad I couldn't find one of those old timers standing in line outside The Olympic when I asked about who that fighter was above the door.I bet I would have got an earful.


Bert Colima

The market across the street from The Guadalupe Church in Tijuana

[dagosd2000]

The Price Of Tomatoes

You see it often in Mexico.Or you used to see it.Not too much anymore. A veteran fighter in their with a fighter who is making his pro debut.THe fighter who has never had a pro fight.Sounds unfair.It is but they used to make those matches down there.

That time I saw Baby Vasquez fight at the Jai Alai Palace in Tijuana was a case in point..Vasquez had over 200 fights.The other guy nil.Think about it. Did this rookie just need a payday?I can' imagine him thinking he was going to win.Vasquez wasn't a big puncher but it looked like he was carrying the guy.It was a lousy fight Maybe they just needed a warm body to put in front of him.But I think everything was understood. The people wanted to see Baby Vasquez.He'd carry the guy.The name no one remembers knew that he couldn't win. But he'd try to make it look good.He knew it was in vain.The fans got their money's worth.I got to say I saw Baby Vasquez fight.

When Gaspar Ortega came up short in his bid to win the welterweight championship from Emile Griffith he went back to Mexico to the small pueblos and the small venues and and fought a lot of first timers.Ortega had seen battle close to 150 times.A little money was made all around.Everyone walked away knowing what was in store.Happy?No. That would have only happened if it was two boys with impressive records and something big was on the line. Then there would have been some very happy and some very sad all around.In Ortega's case it was taken for granted.

There was some BoxRec forum pissing about trashing a great fighter's record because he fought more tomato cans than the other great fighter who was being held in comparison. Name any legend and look at his record. There'll be enough tomato cans in his win column to cater a spaghetti dinner for the 7th Cavalry.

It's those tomato cans that serve as subjects for writing the bittersweet stories of boxing.To take it a step further is when that great fighter doesn't know when it's time to hang up his gloves and then mutates into that can of Chef Boyardee.


Gaspar Ortega

[dagosd2000]

There For The Taking

I'm not sure what they go for today- old boxing posters.When there was a fight in Tijuana,big or small,there was very little advertising and promotion in the San Diego press.I remember when Julio Cesar Chavez made a defense against Danilo Cabrera at the Agua Caliente Racetrack. There was some mention of the fight in the papers here.But I always kept abreast of the upcoming fights across the border by all the fight posters that were nailed against practically every lamppost,telephone pole,and building in and around downtown.

The thing I kick myself in the ass about was when those fights were over all those posters were up for grabs.I could have had hundreds of them with names on the front like,Napoles,Saldivar,Olivares,Laguna,,Sugar Ray Robinson,Archie Moore,Davey Moore,and even Muhammad Ali(He was to fight an exhibition match against one of his sparring partners.It may have been Alonzo Johnson.But it never came off)Yet those posters were left everywhere. You couldn't have swung a dead cat without hitting one of them.It was all there for the taking. But I never bothered to gather them up.Crossed my mind but at the time I thought it would be too much hassle.

I used to have,like many boys my age,all those old baseball cards.But then one day my mother threw them out in the trash .I didn't make a squawk.But getting back to all those fight posters;for example today I could have kept one and sold a few others like it and made a killing.

Now they don't have any fight posters up and around TJ anymore.That's because about the only fights that are left are these dismal matches they have in these little bars around the city and the promoters aren't going to waste their money printing up fight posters.. But lately you don't even see even these crappy fights anymore.Boxing has dried up in Tijuana.Oh,they still have some gyms but it's hard for the fighters who train inside these gyms to get a fight north of the border.Most of the good Mexican fighters reside in the U.S.now.

This Jaime Munguia,who lives in TJ,a few months back fought some guy from back east in the bullring by the sea next to the border. The guy arrived with an undefeated record but he didn't put up much of a fight. It didn't do a whole lot of good for Munguia. He's gotta' make his rep up here if he wants to fight the top contenders.They ain't going south to fight.

Thinking back on it I didn't see any fight posters around town about that fight.After watching the replay even if they had made some posters they wouldn't have been worth the ink it was printed on.

This was the biggest fight in Tijuana in the last several years and it was with two women. Got to admit it was a pretty good scrap.Here's the poster.

[dagosd2000]

A Slow News Day

Kevin Iols,who calls himself the "Combat Columnist" on Yahoo Sports News, reminded us today that this is the 6th year since the passing of Muhammad Ali.In his column Iole says "As a young boy growing up wanting nothing else to be a famous sports writer I read everything I could get my hands on about sports..."
Eventually his path lead to focusing his reading on primarily one subject"Muhammad Ali."
To cut ahead to the chase:"I learned to love a man I never met,whom I'd vigorously defend against the many who never hesitated to take shots at him...My life is what it is because of Muhammad Ali...He was a man of flaws ,many of them,in fact...But he grew and he learned and he evolved...But he was more than a man of the world whose impact went far beyond his ability to beat up another man...I will miss him with all my heart as long as I can draw a breath,he will always be in my heart."

I read this around 9 o'clock this morning. At the bottom there was a message to me saying if I'd like to be the first one to make a comment.I came back to my computer around 3 pm and logged on again to Iole's article.Still no one had submitted a comment.So I'll post a few words here on the forum.Here goes.

"I think no one has commented so far because his article is so hackneyed and commonplace that it becomes an overblown bore." That's my comment.

Boxing is at such a standstill that if you were pressed to name the most popular fighter alive today you could make up a name and just about everyone would believe you. At one time Muhammad Ali was the famous face on the planet.Try asking somebody in Timbuktu what Canelo Alvarez looks like.

There's a lot of slow news days when it comes to writing about boxing..The anniversary of Ali's death motivated Kevin Iole to sit down at his keyboard. Perfect timing.

I write on this forum almost everyrday.I try to work in boxing. But by now you know it mostly serves as a backdrop.


Kevin Iole the "famous Combat columnist" and Sugar Ray Leonard

[dagosd2000]

Hard To Believe

I once heard George Foreman say that he couldn't believe that Muhammad Ali was a fighter.Foreman went on to say that Ali was such a kind person that it was hard to put together that Ali chose fighting as a career.

Maybe that's all it really was for Ali;at least in the end when his skills were rapidly declining.At first he realized he had all that God given talent;a natural ability to succeed in the ring and do things that were counter to the way the book said how to do it. He gloried in the adulation.The limelight is were he kept his feet.He wanted to be loved as much as he wanted to be hated.The intensity had to be intoxicating.

By the time he returned after his banishment, and then went on to fight until he couldn't coordinate his body to execute the basics, he was tired of all the glory. He knew that he was damaged physically. There wasn't any magic left to pull off a miracle.

Muhammad Ali was no street fighter.He would have got his ass handed to him by Liston and Foreman if they had fought in the proverbial phone booth..But when Ali fought the pair inside the boxing ring he humbled them.Their fall was dramatic.For Sonny he ewent the way of the gutter.Foreman found God.

Ali grew up a mama's boy. His mother picked up after him and saw him through rose colored glasses.Ali tolerated his old man. He gave him a pass even though his father would raise his hand to anyone in the house who would rub him the wrong way at the wrong time.But it was Ali's mama that held the house and the home together. Her son was her heart. She reminded me of Elvis' mom.And in ways Ali was like Elvis.The free rein given to them by their mothers in turn let their gift bestow on the world.

Both burned out in the end. Presley from too many pills;Ali from too many shots.But they'll always be remembered even if it is in name only. Looking back on the way things happened it's hard to believe


Muhammad Ali

[dagosd2000]

Floated Away

When all those Muhammad Ali followers filled that recently converted makeshift gym at The Town And Country Hotel to watch him workout, their main aim was to see Ali float like a butterfly in his sparring sessions. Yet Ali hadn't floated like a butterfly in the ring since he began his comeback.In fact Ali's butterfly would never again emerge from its pupae stage.So when Ali chose for one of his sparring partners to get into the ring with him to break a sweat prior to his first fight with Ken Norton his admiration society of acolytes were kept holding their breaths. Ali would start flicking his jab and then retreat to the ropes, leaning back ,arms to his sides,gloves protecting the sides of his head,and absorb punishment.

You could almost hear a pin drop .Any second Ali would snap out of that doldrum and glide across the ring like a boxing ballet dancer.But it never came to be."But that's why we came,"you could feel his comrade in arms wanting to say.They couldn't fathom that there was something wrong.And there wasn't.Ali just couldn't do what he used to do like second nature:float like a butterfly.

I remember watching the rematch Ali had with Smokin' Joe. The lead up was now Ali's in shape.We'll see the old Ali instead of an old Ali.He'll have that bounce back in his step.Joe won't lay a glove on him.The stars will be back in their proper alignment.But the rematch was a carbon copy of the first fight; except the judges scored it in favor of the man who was the lynchpin of the sport. Just before the bell sounded to end the fight Ali did his shuffle(He wanted to show that he still had it in him).I thought he was going to have a heart attack.But To lose again to Frazier and he might have packed it in. So it was simple.Score the win for Ali.

But what did you see?Ali fought flatfooted again.He threw what he had left to muster but it wasn't nearly enough. Frazier had him backed up again against the ropes.Ali would hold him behind the neck trying to quell his charge. No points were deducted.Not even a warning.Everybody thought Ali had lost again but kept that thought inside their heads.Then the judges committed a Jesse James. But instead o putting a price on their heads the public gave then a reward for service justly rendered.

So getting back to sunny San Diego and Ali preparing to fight the dubious Kenny Norton. Ali had made up his mind by then that whoever he was going to fight Muhammad would have to condition himself to get hit often and hard. So he let his sparring partners beat on him.If you were to go back and watch those workouts with those those hired hands they all gave him a wuppin'.

There is talk on the forum of when one of those hired hands,Larry hlmes,could have beaten his boss at the earliest. I remember Larry saying that he was beating Ali with the jab during their sparring in Manila. There's a clip of some of that posted.Yep.Larry's jab was getting there first.A poster commented that "Ali wasn't great in sparring so I wouldn't read too much into this..."You could read volumes into it.Ali's idea of wanting to toughen his body by letting his sparring partners tee off on him hastened his demise as a fighter.It damaged his kidneys not to mention his brain cells. He thought by training that way he'd know what it would be like to get pounded on in the real thing.It was a flawed strategy.

When Cassius/Ali was on the rise working his way into his prime his sparring sessions were a breathtaking display of speed and grace. Nothing remotely of what you saw during his comeback days.His performance validated it. Like the timeworn adage says-"Old butterflies don't die,they just float away."


Ali after the finish line

[dagosd2000]

Absent Without Leave

Boxing is one of those sports where if a fighter doesn't show up at the gym for his workout he's not really penalized.Maybe a tongue lashing.Maybe his corner just looks the other way. It's often hard for his manager and trainer to keep tabs on him all the time. If ,for example,a football player misses practice for no good reason he might get fined and have his ass sitting on the bench when it comes game time.He might lose his starting position or get kicked off the team.With fighters it's different.Sometimes they can be a hard lot to handle.

Jackie McCoy was always looking for Mando Ramos.McCoy said that Ramos was the best natural talent he ever had but Mando's lack of self discipline often made him a no show at the gym. The night before his title defense with Chango Carmona he had been out all nhght drinking and taking drugs and wound up sleeping it off in the LA County Jail.Jackie was called on the phone to come and bail him out.

When I had tracked down Jose Napoles in Ciudad Juarez he was telling me he had a good prospect he was training but the kid couldn't be counted on to show up at the gym on a consistent basis.Jose finally gave up on the kid,or was it the other way around?

My father was a fledgling manager back in Chicago.I remember he had a couple of young fighters. But he'd say that they felt more like chasing women instead of running doing their roadwork.My father had a rule of thumb:lose two fights in a row and go look for a job.I wonder if those two knew where the employment agency was.

When Angelo Dudee was aaked to comment on one of his charges the first thing he'd say was whether his fighter took his training seriously,be in the gym everyday.He often said Carmen Basilio and Ali were very easy to work with because they trained diligently and had no bad habits.

That brings me to the topic of women again. Can they be a distraction? Of course. Dundee said that his first champ,Willie Pastrano,couldn't draw the line when it came to bedding the dames.His appetite for sex was running his life. Ali was a fence jumper but he made sure he was always in the gym when supposed to.Archie Moore was married five times.I think Willie Pep tied the knot seven.But with those two they knew when to zip up their pants when the time came to getting themselves in physical condition. But then there was Art Aragon,the original Golden Boy,who admitted that the split tails had got the better of him.He'd find himself in divorce court and reunite with all his old irlfriends.

Fighters are a peculiar ilk. I used to be on staff with an old time football coach who had coached under Vince Lombardi when he was with the Redskins and Ara Parseghian at Notre Dame .He was lending a hand at the the high school where I was working with the team.He once commented on fighters.
"If it wasn't foe boxing,"he'd say in his gruff voice,"they'd all be in jail and have syphliis."
Well,I don't know about that.Maybe half of them would.


Angelo Dundee

[dagosd2000]

A Walk To The Corner

I don't usually ask a fighter the standard line,"Who was the best guy you ever fought?"He's probably been asked it a thousand times and I don't want to be included in that number.But around ten years ago when I was in Irvine at the annual World Boxing Hall Of Fame ceremony ,there was Emile Griffith under the supervision of his caretaker. Emile was being eaten away by the dementia by that time. He was afraid of just about everything and couldn't have managed getting around by himself.

I saw him in the lobby sitting with his guardian behind a table with a stack of books on top -his ghost written autobiography,"Nine...Ten...And Out." The pair looked very alone. I didn't see anyone picking up a copy wanting to read what was inside.The price tag was 20 bucks which was pretty reasonable in my estimation.However I did see one dude saunter up to the table holding that infamous picture of Griffith hovering over the dying Benny Paret in Madison Square Garden.With a big s--t eating grin, the dude wanted Griffith's John Hancock on the photograph.Without hesitating, Griffith mechanically wrote his name.The eerie souvenir hunter walked away without saying "Thanks" nor springing for a copy of Griffith's life story.

I was curious enough to buy a copy. The inside cover was autographed by Griffith. Like the adage says,"You can't judge a book by its cover" (I read it when I got home. Very good.Many caveats,anecdotes, and insights to this complex man who now was fighting the greatest fight of his career and was in a losing battle.

If you have been giving me a look over from time to time on the forum you know by now that my favorite fighter to watch was Jose Napoles.You noticed I chose the word "watch."I thought that Jose's best effort was against Griffith. Ok.Now I'm going to hear the usual stuff that Griffith by that time was fighting as a middleweight and he had to dry himself down to fight Jose at welterweight.Well, I never bought that.Griffith went up to middleweight because the bigger money and the bigger fights awaited him there.He was still in his prime years then and skill wise he still had the goods.He was fighting a lot on the west Coast and beating the best they could put in front of him at both weights..

The match with Napoles was a natural. Griffith had some of his most famous battles with Cuban fighters. Three with Paret(the final one infamous because of the tragedy.Referee Ruby Goldstein would never be the third man in the ring again) and four with Luis Rodriguez.Jose had destroyed Curtis Cokes to win the championship,a carbon copy in the rematch,,and made Cokes gain weight to 160 in order to fight some more("I just can't beat Jose Napoles"Cokes would say afterwards).Emile Griffith was a no brainer adversary if Emile agreed to try for another 147 title.

I remember the fight. I thought Napoles had a better than even chance to beat him. Both fighters could have made weight wearing their street clothes.Griffith's greatest efforts were at welterweight. He was super fast with his hands and footwork.He had fought everyone in the division and with the exception of maybe Rodriguez he was the top gun.

The fight was like two chess masters in the ring.For one of the few times I sensed that Griffith was struggling to figure out a way to attack his opponent.Jose was making Griffith fight HIS fight.Jose was dictating the action.Napoles was a genius at luring an opponent in and then countering with deadly accuracy.Bolos and that left hook of his was something to watch.He also had a piston like jab.

During the 4th round Jose caught Emile with an uppercut coming in that dropped him for a short count.But Jose didn't lose his head.Emile wasn't hurt as much as he was surprised. Jose had out fooled him.After 15 fast rounds it was obvious that Napoles would get the decision. The look on Griffith's face concurred the feeling. I thought Dick Young and John Thomas had the scoring a little wide but the right man got his hand raised.

But here's the thing that moved me.After the decision was announced Jose went to Emile and put his arm around him and then walked with him back to his corner.Jose was saying something,all in Spanish,but that wasn't so important.I don't know what he said,.I should have asked him when I met my favorite fighter living in a barrio in Ciudad Juarez years later smoking a cigar sitting outside in front of his rented house.But I'll make an educated guess.
"You are a great champion and a great fighter."
I didn't see Griffith responding verbally. His head was down. He got licked fair and square.

That's why that afternoon at The World Boxing Hall Of Fame I asked Emile Griffith,
"Who was the best fighter you ever fought?"
He answered the way I had hoped.
"Jose Napoles,"he said slowly."He was the smartest fighter I ever fought."
Not only the best, but the smartest.


"Mantequilla" Napoles

[dagosd2000]

Will be off the thread for two weeks.Going down to our house in Mexico and see how the other half lives.

[Alguiffer]

Have a great trip ! Looking forward to your posts when you return.

[scartissue]

Have fun, Rog.

[scartissue]

Just heard Carlos Ortiz passed away today. RIP champ.

[dagosd2000]

The Other Half

Got back from Mexico yesterday.You know I talk about it all the time;my wife's hometown Jiquilpan,Michoacan. It's in the middle of nowhere. You fly in to Guadalajara from Tijuana and then I rent a car at the airport and drive to Jiguilpan.It takes longer to drive there than the flight from Tijuana.

You know how you get all kinds of scam calls on your phone-people trying to sell you insurance on your old car or someone wanting you to know that your security on your computer is out of date and you need to upgrade. Yeah,it's a pain but you just delete it and wait for the next call to say"scam likely."Well, in Mexico(wherever you go) the latest is getting a phone call and somebody screaming on the other end that you're going to get kidnapped if you don't come up with some money.I was sitting in my sister in law's house and se got a call from someone who claimed to be one of her kids and was being held for ransom.My sister in law began shouting "Tell me your name!"Whoever it was hung up the phone.

You can talk to just about anyone in Mexico and they'll tell you about some sort of kidnapping experience.They talk about it like it was nothing.It happens all the time.

Around 20 years ago I was watching the Turner Classic Movie channel and the host Robert Osbourne was interviewing the two time Academy Award winning actress Luise Rainer.She was 104 years old.She couldn't hear very well but she was all bubbly and full of herself. Osbourne asked her at the end if she had any pearls of wisdom to share.(I'm always curious to know what these old timers think about the world).She came back with,"We are al the same"she said in a gloating voice.

Well, if that don't beat all.104 years old and she had her head up her ass.

[dagosd2000]

Looking Backwards

Carlos Ortiz was one of those fighters from the past who had little regard for the pugs of today.But that's not unusual. Ex jocks are commonly heard to say that the bygone era was a better breed of cat. Though recently former baseball players, for example, say who takes the field today are better ,at least more athletic,than who was inside those dugouts during the Babe's time.

I was watching an interview hosted by Curt Gowdy ( sometime in the early 70's)where he was chatting with Tony Zale and Rocky Graziano.Those two were adamant in their takes that the fighters in the ring back then couldn't hold a spit bucket to the fighters of the 40's.I laughed it off.But getting back to Carlos Ortiz.

Ortiz was tested by guys like Kenny Lane,Sugar Ramos,Ismael Laguna,and Flash Elorde. These fellas' had the tools. Their skills involved a lot with their feet. Their movement. They fought in the middle of the ring and were always in proper distance to attack or defend.That meant they had to have good footwork. You rarely see today's champions and contenders move their legs in order to get the most behind their punches and to avoid getting hit.Most of that can be blamed on a lack of good trauners.it's almost like the blind leading the blind.

You can make a strong case that Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't have put up those big numbers today like he did whern he was in his prime.But to tell me Tyson Fury would have worn the heavyweight crown back in 70's would make a good episode on Fantasy Island.



Carlos Ortiz at the World Boxing Hall Of Fame banquet,2010.

[dagosd2000]

Warrior

That time in 2010 at the World Boxing Hall Of Fame banquet Carlos Ortiz and Gaspar Ortega flew in together from The Apple.They had brought their wives.They were pals. They had both tried their hands in the nightclub business in New York.Now they went to bed early and seemed happily retired.

I remember growing up watching the fights on TV three nights a week back in the 50's.Gaspar Ortega was on the tube as much as Howdy Doody.Howdy may have been my kiddie staple but Gaspar was my intro into the world of what some males pursue when they start growing hair on their balls.

"Indio" is what they called Ortega. He was from that earth's oven the Mojave desert where there's no shade,sparse water, and in the summer you bear 100 degree temperatures for months on straight.If he had born 50 years earlier he would have been one of Geronimo's raiders fighting the Mexican army south of the border and the U.S. Cavalry north of the line.In Mexico they were Yaquis.In the U.S.,Apaches. Call them what you like, they were savage fighters."Indio" Ortega would have been one of Geronimo's gallant warriors.

I'm not counting but it seemed like Ortega fought as much in Madison Square Garden as Joe Louis.They threw the best at him and he always emptied all his arrows.Often he wound up with a scalp but there were times when he didn't. But he never dogged it and the gringos wanted him back again.

He finally got his shot at a title when he was brought to battle with Emile Griffith in Los Angeles. Emile was a bit to quick on the trigger finger and though Gaspar has used every arrow in his quiver it wasn't enough.After that loss he returned to he Mojave desert to mop up anybody who was taking in air in every congested arena in places with names like San Luis Rio Colorado,Cananea,and Agua Prieta. From time to time he played the part of the stepping stone,mostly in Europe,but the Indians were accustomed to being outnumbered when they let out their war hoops.

I became friends with Gaspar Ortega .When he still had the desire to come out West to various boxing conventions.I'd bring my wife and the conversations would eventually move away from boxing to what was to grow up on the ranch in their Patria Chicas..Oh,it was all very sentimental but Ortega never wanted to go back.Not even for a visit anymore.

I remember he told me about when they replaced a section of his carotid artery with a plastic tube.He made me put my finger on his neck to feel the tube.THey said he would have died without the operation.The surgery had been done in New York.

Just think.If he had been with Geronimo they would have dressed him in his best attire,wrapped him in a blanket, carried to the hills, and placed in a shallow grave.Gaspar "Indio" Ortega died in 2021.From my point of view they should have buried him that way.


Gaspar and my wife eating gringo food at Carl's Juniors.Look at those faces.They look like they're from the same tribe.I miss that guy.


Maybe Gaspar never physically went back to Mexico after awhile,but mentally?I'm sure songs like this went through his head all the time.

[dagosd2000]

Slight Of Hand

When Joe Brown lost his lightweight title to Carlos Ortiz in Las Vegas right away Ring Magazine published a story of the fight titled,"Were The Cards Stacked In Las Vegas?" I can answer that.You bet they were. "Old Bones" who had held the title for 10 years after beating Wallace "Bud" Smith to win the crown was one of the craftiest boxers ever to lace up the gloves.

After beating Smith and then again in the rematch Brown fought 26 times,many of those bouts the now non existent non title ilks,against everyone in a division that was loaded with talent. Dave Charnley,Paolo Rosi,Johnny Busso,Kenny Lane,Battling Torres,Gale Kerwin,Ralph Dupas,Joey Lopes,and Cisco Andrade came up dry.Brown fought some tricky guys but he always seemed to have that ace up his sleeve when it came down the stretch. He was as slick as a hot grease on the skillet.

He made headquarters from that city that seemed more European than American,New Orleans.Under the tutelage of trainer Bill Gore, Brown had a standout presence in the ring. Tall,lanky and loose; with a left hand that he worked like a magic wand, He was sort of a counterpart of Ray Robinson.A Flashy smile.Slicked back hair.Brown fought some very close,exciting fights that he always seemed to be able to pull the fat out of the fire. That's why the fight with Ortiz left a lot of us scratching out heads. Brown didn't win round on the scorecards, He looked like he wasn't trying. There was a time he slipped to the canvas and sat there laughing.Yeah,the Wiseguys in Las Vegas were taking hold. It was the right time and the right place for Brown to step down and let the Puerto Ricans in New York fill the seats of MSG.

One of the most underrated Lightweight champions of all time his name never is spoken in the same breath with Duran or Mayweather.

But what the hell.This is supposed to be a forum on "Boxing History."Too bad the time zone doesn't extend back before 1970 unless you're talking about Joe Louis,and then the rhetoric gets pretty fuzzy.


Joe Brown

[dagosd2000]

Blood Is Thicker Than Horse Piss

Spain doesn't give a s--t about Mexico let alone the rest of Latin America.Yeah,there was a time when they owned all of Latin America but over the centuries with revolutions, and in the end, a war with the United States Spain lost everything in the Western Hemisphere.

Mexico got the balls to start rebelling against their Spanish Conquistadores in 1810 and won their independence 10 years later. But the Europeans still wanted to get their hooks in Mexico and they tried when Maximillian became the "Emperor" of Mexico with the help of some of the ex Spanish aristocrats. His reign lasted for about three years before he was put to death in 1867. Benito Juarez took over the country and he was as about as Indian as Montezuma.But Benny dropped dead of a heart attack and the dictator Porfirio Diaz muscled his was into being top man for the next 50 years.

Diaz was an internationalist who lured foreigners and their money to invest mightily into the country. The majority of the population was either the half breed "Mestizo" or the just plain no good Injuns.To be in either of those two categories was considered being "sub human."

You must see this point( which isn't openly discussed with the gringo).The Mexican aristocracy admitted the American pioneer had the better idea.They brought their wives and kids with them when they landed at Plymouth Rock. There was no way they were gong to co habit with the Hiawatha and her ilk. It was search and destroy against those tepee dwellers. That's why Latin America realizes that they are far from being on an even par with the United States.The gringos don't have any Indian blood flowing through their veins.Latin America is full of it.

On the other hand when the Conquistadores arrived from Spain (and Portugal) they were soldiers.They left the wife and kids at home. But boys being boys(or I should say men) those armored warriors got horny and the only females present were the Malinches of the numrous tribes.Of course before the soldados screwed them in the more civilized missionary style instead of the way the dogs did it, they had to to be baptized into being Catholics.The result was a continental majority of half breeds.THat's why Latin America is all screwed up in their thinking.

Diaz ,when he became dictator, wanted to reverse that image.Foreigners we held in higher esteem than the native Mestizo.But then in 1910 there was another revolution in Mexico and it was guys like Zapata and Villa wanting to give the land to the Mestizo and take it away from the foreigners..Villa and Zapata were assassinated but the revolution was won in a way. But don't let no one kid you.A Mexican woman with light skin and blond hair thinks she's better than the woman that looks like a squaw.And it's really cool if you have a European sounding last name.

So as I often do I'll now make my stretch towards boxing.Remember when Mando Ramos went to Spain and kicked Pedro Carrasco's ass?They gave it it to Petey as he laid stretched out on the canvas but nobody bought that except of few Spaniards.When they fought the rematch and the rubber in LA they got it right(even though I thought they got it wrong)

You know if you tell a Mexican there's no Mexican food in Spain they don't believe you.


Mando Ramos