What's the earliest that Larry Holmes would have defeated Ali ?

[oogiebe]

Ali made it close with Norton in '76, so that's probably a little too early. No question that Holmes wins in '78.
'77 seems about right.

Ali always had trouble with Norton's style.
I think Holmes would always have problems with Norton's style too
77 for sure but possibly 76 Holmes beats Ali.
I think that his speed and jab would just be too much at that stage of Ali's career

'76? I don't think so. Ali may have been on the decline, but Holmes wasn't even tested yet. 77 maybe; 78 most def.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

In 1976 I'd take Holmes to beat Ali. What do you guys think ?

- Tried to let this misbegotten thread die in waiting, but it keeps popping up daily like burnt poptarts in a faulty toaster

The obese Lar in his elder years gives me no satisfaction to beat up again what with his 0-6, 0 KO record vs standing champs winning their titles and getting knocked down in his last ring moment by Butterbean in the ring, but...

1977 Lar took 5 rds on an undercard to KO 6 fight not even a prospect Horace Robinson. Couple months later Norton KOs Duane Bobick in 1 rd, you know, the guy who knocked out the Ali and Dundee trained Lar in the Olympic trials, so your question should be more accurately queried as to when Lar could ever beat Bobick who was bigger, stronger, and more credentialed both ama and pro? Bobick then also Ring ranked and being ducked by Ali, not Lar who was still swimming in the wet noodle pool.

Need I remind you Lar born in the same year was MIA during Big George storied 68 Olympic year?

So, as to your misbegotten question, Lar could only beat Ali when he did, but then so could I and 10,000 healthy prime males had they a crack at the morbidly sick Ali being propped up for slaughter, the ugly side of boxing.

[Caractacus]

well lets face it
Ali didnt look too good
in his winnings against
Ron Lyle and particulary Jimmy Young in 1976
and many thought that Ken Norton won the third fight too.
and if you want to count wins over 'chumps" like
Jean Pierre Coopman and Michael Dunn

[Controversial]

In 1976 I'd take Holmes to beat Ali. What do you guys think ?

- Tried to let this misbegotten thread die in waiting, but it keeps popping up daily like burnt poptarts in a faulty toaster

The obese Lar in his elder years gives me no satisfaction to beat up again what with his 0-6, 0 KO record vs standing champs winning their titles and getting knocked down in his last ring moment by Butterbean in the ring, but...

1977 Lar took 5 rds on an undercard to KO 6 fight not even a prospect Horace Robinson. Couple months later Norton KOs Duane Bobick in 1 rd, you know, the guy who knocked out the Ali and Dundee trained Lar in the Olympic trials, so your question should be more accurately queried as to when Lar could ever beat Bobick who was bigger, stronger, and more credentialed both ama and pro? Bobick then also Ring ranked and being ducked by Ali, not Lar who was still swimming in the wet noodle pool.

Need I remind you Lar born in the same year was MIA during Big George storied 68 Olympic year?

So, as to your misbegotten question, Lar could only beat Ali when he did, but then so could I and 10,000 healthy prime males had they a crack at the morbidly sick Ali being propped up for slaughter, the ugly side of boxing.

I'm not sure I understand your post? So you are saying Holmes could never have beaten Ali apart from when they fought? What does Holmes not being at the 1968 Olympics have to do with it, Holmes didn't start boxing as an amateur until around 1971. He was sparring Ali as an amateur not long after this.

Also I'm not sure why Bobick getting knocked out by Norton has to do with Holmes? Holmes only had about 20 amateur fights, he didn't have a great amateur career but was obviously a great HW as a pro, far better than Bobick ever was.

Holmes would have given Ali a tough fight around 1977 onwards I think. He knew Ali inside out, had a better jab, was in better shape and punched harder.

[Caractacus]

Ali did however look as "The Greatest" in the last 30 seconds of this round (March 1975)

[Controversial]

Ali did however look as "The Greatest" in the last 30 seconds of this round (March 1975)

Off topic I listened to Stallone's brother being interviewed and he said the film Rocky being based on Wepner was a load of nonsense.

[Caractacus]

"inspired By" yes, 'based on" no way.
Rocky story was more like Joe Frazier vrs Ron Stander fight
( if you were to arsk me)..

[Controversial]

"inspired By" yes, 'based on" no way.
Rocky story was more like Joe Frazier vrs Ron Stander fight
( if you were to arsk me)..

Not based on no, wrong wording, not inspired by either, nothing to do with Wepner at all lol

[Caractacus]

The story I heard since 1976,
was that Stallone was down on his luck in March 1975
only had 10 dollars in his pocket
and instead of getting a meal to help fill his empty stomach,
went to the local theater and spent it on the closed-circuit broadcast
of Ali vrs Wepner/Norton vrs Quarry.
immedialy went back to his aprtment
got on the type-write
and by next morning the script for ROCKY was finished.

[Controversial]

The story I heard since 1976,
was that Stallone was down on his luck in March 1975
only had 10 dollars in his pocket
and instead of getting a meal to help fill his empty stomach,
went to the local theater and spent it on the closed-circuit broadcast
of Ali vrs Wepner/Norton vrs Quarry.
immedialy went back to his aprtment
got on the type-write
and by next morning the script for ROCKY was finished.

Not according to Sly's brother Frank Stallone. Great listen, he really knows his stuff

Scroll to 51:30

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s ... 0558879417

[Caractacus]

51 minutes ? sheeeeyatt
would you please tell us what he had said in a 'nut-shell" ?

[Controversial]

51 minutes ? sheeeeyatt
would you please tell us what he had said in a 'nut-shell" ?

You can just scroll through to 51 mins and start listening then, he said it wasn't true

[Caractacus]

im pretty sure that they 'settled out of court" with Chuck Wepner concerning the matter.

[tiny_acres]

im pretty sure that they 'settled out of court" with Chuck Wepner concerning the matter.

They did settle for an undisclosed sum

[Controversial]

That probably expands why Frank didn't talk about it much in that podcast

[Nile4000]

Around 1977. 1976 is possible but 1977 definitely.