Muhammad Ali-stripped 1976 : Your thoughts ?

[goose 5]

The W.B.C. awarded Ali its fighter of the year award for 1975. However, they revoked the award in June, 1976 because Ali brought boxing into disrepute with his bout against Antonio Inoki.

I never knew this and am curious about the board's thoughts ?

My source is the New York Daily News June 28, 1976.

[HomicideHenry]

I'm not a fan of Ali but that was an incredibly stupid decision. I've never heard that before. The whole Ali-Inoki debacle has really taken on a life of its own ever since it went down.

Ali legitimately thought that he was going to receive $6 million dollars to do a single scripted match with Inoki, but when he showed up to Inoki's gym asking when were they going to rehearse Inoki told him there was no rehearsals that this was a legitimate fight.

Which is why team Ali scrambled fast creating a laundry list of rules that Inoki couldn't do, because they knew in an all-out fight with no real rules Ali couldn't win. Inoki, not wanting to lose face in front of his countrymen or to lose the opportunity of a lifetime, begrudgingly accepted the last minute rules.

Which is why the fight is rather hard to watch because Inoki wasn't allowed to kick standing up (like a kickboxer), and wasn't allowed choke holds or submissions. Basically rendering Inoki to throw baseball slide kicks, and fighting off his back--- because otherwise he would have to fight like a boxer which would have put him completely at a disadvantage.

Regardless I've seen the fight quite a few times and the "draw" verdict was nonsense, because Inoki kicked Ali dozens and dozens of times, and Ali only threw 6 punches landing 2. I've seen other "matches" Inoki had with boxers like Mildenberger and Wepner, and those clearly had fake endings --- but this debacle was the real deal.

[Ambling Alp II]

OK, here we go again.
It was Ali who wanted the fight to be real; not Inoki.
Ali couldn't win a legitimate fight with Inoki? What are you smoking? One punch to the head and it's over.
Inoki could have stood up had he wanted to. He knew it was safer being on the ground.

[goose 5]

Do you believe that Inoki is a legit shooter and Ali still could have won ?

[HomicideHenry]

OK, here we go again.
It was Ali who wanted the fight to be real; not Inoki.
Ali couldn't win a legitimate fight with Inoki? What are you smoking? One punch to the head and it's over.
Inoki could have stood up had he wanted to. He knew it was safer being on the ground.

Wrong on all counts.

That is the myth that the boxing side of things has pushed for over 40 years. It's simply not true. He thought it was going to be a scripted match, and because wrestling was still being pushed as being real Ali played it up for the cameras that he would "never take a fight that would deceive the public," when that simply wasn't true.



The very fact that Ali "prepared" for the Inoki fight doing fake matches with people like Buddy Wolfe and had Classy Freddie Blassie involved, etc--- goes to show that he thought it was going to be something farciful until he got there, and his entire demeanor changed because he was constantly bringing up the rules.

Furthermore, Ali did hit Inoki flush once in the fight. So this notion or idea that Inoki would have gotten knocked out by a single punch is nothing more than a fantasy of boxing people who run down professional wrestlers and martial artists.

[Ambling Alp II]

It was originally supposed to be a scripted match. It was Ali who decided that he wanted it to be real. You seriously think that if Inoki stood up and tried to actually win (instead of being on the floor just to survive) that he would have lasted long.? Come on. Inoki himself certainly didn't.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

The W.B.C. awarded Ali its fighter of the year award for 1975. However, they revoked the award in June, 1976 because Ali brought boxing into disrepute with his bout against Antonio Inoki.

I never knew this and am curious about the board's thoughts ?

My source is the New York Daily News June 28, 1976.

- - Rather than upset The Legions of The Tao of Ali, wiki pretty much sums it up with quite a bit more info than was available in the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ ... %2C%201976.

Spring semester of 76 my final college semester, so I was all over this fight.

Recollections were Ali went over thinking this was a cushy exhibition and was blindsided when finding he was expected to fight. All my info was in my local print sports section and Sports Illustrated since Ring probably wouldn't cover such a thing. Just as today, rumors and dodgy media crawling all over each other with hypotheticals since they didn't follow martial arts per say. Rumor had dark arts shoving a hand down Ali's throat to yank out his beating heart had the Ali team threatening to cancel unless rules concessions were made.

That cut out Anoki from 90% of his arsenal, and then they installed Judo Gene Lebelle as ref to stop(choke out!) Anoki from any monkey biz, hence Anoki back crab crawl kicks that was useful enough to put down Ali several times. Point in fact post fight Ali went straight into ICU on blood thinners to monitor developing bloodclots that could've broke loose to invade his brain and could've killed him. Luckily this occurred in Tokyo. If in Zaire, he dies or is crippled for life.

Yeah, Ali looked like kaka as he was starting to look more and more in his fights, but he made the legend of Anoki and can be seen as a bastard precursor to the MMA movement of today

I forget the year, but promoters beat the world bushes ca late 80s to assemble a tourney level elimination of every martial discipline that didn't include boxing. However, they dragged up a Texas boy straight out of HS from San Antone. He'd been a football lineman, ie the biggest postion players, a true heavyweight. He'd made quite a reputation on the Mexican side of Laredo as a bare knucks brawler along with a fair amount of $$$. He entered and made it to the quarters, all wins by KO, with Royce Gracie as his opponent. Alas, his busted hands forced him to withdraw and Gracie was graced with the Bye of a lifetime that allowed him to win that tourney. Pretty sure the kid with good hands would've done him in that would've greatly slowed the development of MMA.

Such are the Fickle Fingers of Fate.

[HomicideHenry]

It was originally supposed to be a scripted match. It was Ali who decided that he wanted it to be real. You seriously think that if Inoki stood up and tried to actually win (instead of being on the floor just to survive) that he would have lasted long.? Come on. Inoki himself certainly didn't.

No, it wasn't.

Inoki only fought on the ground because of team Ali coming up with such a diluted pair of rules that made it impossible for Inoki to utilize his strengths.

You hear it during the fight constantly, "He kicked while standing up!," etc--- because the Ali team were literally pissing their pants that Inoki would break the rules that they made.

That is why the man fought off of his back and crab walking around the ring. Had Inoki been allowed to use submissions and chokes and kick while standing up, it would have been over in the first round like virtually every other boxer vs grappler match in history that was ever on the level.

[Ambling Alp II]

Please.

[HomicideHenry]

Please.

I think part of your reluctance on this is the fact that Inoki was a professional wrestler. Without taking into consideration that the man was legitimately trained in judo, catch wrestling, etc. Over in Japan professional wrestling was a bit different than in America with their "strong style" and occasionally shoots would take place.

Had it been someone like Cowboy Luttrell, Mike DiBiase, etc--- the argument you make would be really sound and reasonable to make. But considering Inoki's pedigree I don't think in a no holds barred situation that Ali would have ever gotten out of the first round.

The rules were made in such a way that Inoki was essentially powerless to be able to do anything else but crawl around on his butt and kick Ali's legs. Even with the stupid rules I'm of the opinion that Inoki won the match.



Although I will give you this there was a couple of efforts made to try to make it into a fake fight, where at some point the referee would blade either Ali or Inoki, thus halting the contest--- but in the end it was all flushed down the tubes because Inoki wanted a real fight because beating Ali was far more meaningful than any staged match with Mildenberger, Wepner, etc.

But it was the rules at the end of the day that made for one of the most bizarre and boring matches of all time.

[Ambling Alp II]

It was Ali who wanted it on the level. Inoki stayed on the ground like that because he knew if Ali tried to bend down and punch him, he would have a chance to grab Ali.
Just because someone has a martial arts background doesn't mean they could beat the heavyweight champion of the world.

homicidehenry wrote: "Had Inoki been allowed to use submissions and chokes and kick while standing up, it would have been over in the first round like virtually every other boxer vs grappler match in history that was ever on the level."

Every time at this level?

Really? How many times has the heavyweight champion of the world taken on a wrestler in a real fight? Would love to know.

[HomicideHenry]

It was Ali who wanted it on the level. Inoki stayed on the ground like that because he knew if Ali tried to bend down and punch him, he would have a chance to grab Ali.
Just because someone has a martial arts background doesn't mean they could beat the heavyweight champion of the world.

homicidehenry wrote: "Had Inoki been allowed to use submissions and chokes and kick while standing up, it would have been over in the first round like virtually every other boxer vs grappler match in history that was ever on the level."

Every time at this level?

Really? How many times has the heavyweight champion of the world taken on a wrestler in a real fight? Would love to know.

There have been many boxers who went up against wrestlers or martial artists throughout history and almost always the pure pugilist loses to the man of the other discipline.

Mind you I will say it takes a higher IQ to be a championship level boxer because you are strictly limited to your fists than it takes to become a championship level mixed martial artist because there is more avenues to win.

As for the challenge of a world class or champion boxer losing to a world class or champion wrestler or martial artist...

One that comes to mind is Bob Fitzsimmons losing to Ernest Roeber in 1897 via scissors hold around his neck. Fitzsimmons would defeat Corbett not long after that match. However later on in the evening the two men fought again this time strictly boxing rules and Fitzsimmons knocked out Roeber for over an hour.

The two men would basically become partners after that, as Roeber taught Fitzsimmons the finer points of grappling (for clinching purposes) and to help boost his conditioning.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/12/4/1 ... #storyjump

There is an excellent series of articles on the history of mixed matches that I thought I would share but the consensus has always been that a wrestler or martial artist more times than not will always win in an all-out fight with a boxer.

[Ambling Alp II]

So Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly lost to a wrestler before he was even the champion. Not exactly an extensive list.

[Caractacus]

I was in HS when that event happened.
It was right around the USA's "Bicentennial"
right during the height of "Kung-Fu" mania across the USA and World.
It was on "Closed-Cuicuit Television"
so you had to go see it at the Cinema or arena somewhere downtown.
However that would have been about a 17 mile walk to there for me as I lived out in the country.
and also I didnt have any money to buy a ticket (which was about 10 dollars)
IT was the priliminary match to it that I really wanted to see tho.

[HomicideHenry]

So Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly lost to a wrestler before he was even the champion. Not exactly an extensive list.

It's one example of many. Mind you the first (of many exhibitions) Fitzsimmons vs Roeber occured in January 1897. The last occurred March 13th. When was Corbett? March 17th.

Almost all of the early heavyweight champions had exhibitions with wrestlers or martial artists and almost always lost--- and usually there would be a return match under boxing rules that way the boxer saved face a bit.

John L. Sullivan did a match against William Muldoon, the man who trained him for Jake Kilrain, and he lost that match pretty quickly. That was in August 1889. Kilrain was in July 1889.

Jack Johnson had a few matches against wrestlers and martial artists while in Europe. He won some, and lost some. One man he lost to was Jimmy Esson, and here is some information on that man:

http://www.wrestle.co.uk/swcp3.htm

[Caractacus]

Farmer Burns physically threw Stanley Ketchel out of Jim J. jeffries training camp
when Jeffries ordered him to when Jeffries was preparing to fight Jack Johnson.

[Caractacus]

iI think it was this seeing type of stuff on TV back then on ABC's Wide World of Sports
that whetted the public's appetite for Ali vrs Inoki

-1975-

[Ambling Alp II]

So Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly lost to a wrestler before he was even the champion. Not exactly an extensive list.

It's one example of many. Mind you the first (of many exhibitions) Fitzsimmons vs Roeber occured in January 1897. The last occurred March 13th. When was Corbett? March 17th.

Almost all of the early heavyweight champions had exhibitions with wrestlers or martial artists and almost always lost--- and usually there would be a return match under boxing rules that way the boxer saved face a bit.

John L. Sullivan did a match against William Muldoon, the man who trained him for Jake Kilrain, and he lost that match pretty quickly. That was in August 1889. Kilrain was in July 1889.

Jack Johnson had a few matches against wrestlers and martial artists while in Europe. He won some, and lost some. One man he lost to was Jimmy Esson, and here is some information on that man:

http://www.wrestle.co.uk/swcp3.htm

You have next to nothing. What you have bringing up has nothing to do with Ali-Inoki. You acted like this is a common thing. Wrestlers have not been going up against Heavyweight champions in real matches.

[HomicideHenry]

So Bob Fitzsimmons supposedly lost to a wrestler before he was even the champion. Not exactly an extensive list.

It's one example of many. Mind you the first (of many exhibitions) Fitzsimmons vs Roeber occured in January 1897. The last occurred March 13th. When was Corbett? March 17th.

Almost all of the early heavyweight champions had exhibitions with wrestlers or martial artists and almost always lost--- and usually there would be a return match under boxing rules that way the boxer saved face a bit.

John L. Sullivan did a match against William Muldoon, the man who trained him for Jake Kilrain, and he lost that match pretty quickly. That was in August 1889. Kilrain was in July 1889.

Jack Johnson had a few matches against wrestlers and martial artists while in Europe. He won some, and lost some. One man he lost to was Jimmy Esson, and here is some information on that man:

http://www.wrestle.co.uk/swcp3.htm

You have next to nothing. What you have bringing up has nothing to do with Ali-Inoki. You acted like this is a common thing. Wrestlers have not been going up against Heavyweight champions in real matches.

You said championship boxers or world class boxers, and yes quite a few had legitimate fights with martial artists or wrestlers. I'm not going to continue to argue with you on this. It's not my job to provide a comprehensive list of every single match in which a boxer of high caliber lost to a wrestler or martial artist.

Anyone with a functioning brain watching MMA over the last 20 or 30 years will tell you that someone who is strictly a boxer more times than not is going to lose to a martial artist or wrestler. And anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

[Caractacus]

[Caractacus]

got to see Muhammad Ali fight live several times on Free TV in 1976
This one however was a National "Ass-Whupping".

[Ambling Alp II]

It's one example of many. Mind you the first (of many exhibitions) Fitzsimmons vs Roeber occured in January 1897. The last occurred March 13th. When was Corbett? March 17th.

Almost all of the early heavyweight champions had exhibitions with wrestlers or martial artists and almost always lost--- and usually there would be a return match under boxing rules that way the boxer saved face a bit.

John L. Sullivan did a match against William Muldoon, the man who trained him for Jake Kilrain, and he lost that match pretty quickly. That was in August 1889. Kilrain was in July 1889.

Jack Johnson had a few matches against wrestlers and martial artists while in Europe. He won some, and lost some. One man he lost to was Jimmy Esson, and here is some information on that man:

http://www.wrestle.co.uk/swcp3.htm

You have next to nothing. What you have bringing up has nothing to do with Ali-Inoki. You acted like this is a common thing. Wrestlers have not been going up against Heavyweight champions in real matches.

You said championship boxers or world class boxers, and yes quite a few had legitimate fights with martial artists or wrestlers. I'm not going to continue to argue with you on this. It's not my job to provide a comprehensive list of every single match in which a boxer of high caliber lost to a wrestler or martial artist.

Anyone with a functioning brain watching MMA over the last 20 or 30 years will tell you that someone who is strictly a boxer more times than not is going to lose to a martial artist or wrestler. And anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

I said heavyweight world champions. Fitz wasn't the champion yet. Johnson's were wrestling matches or boxing matches. Nothing else in more than 100 years.

[Caractacus]

-30. April 1976-
I remember watching this NBC live Boxing Special on TV too
and was first time felt that Muhammad Ali maybe be slipping down-hill boxing career wise anyway.

[Ambling Alp II]

I remember this as well. (Was actually on ABC).
Holmes-Williams was not actually broadcast live.

I think Norton-Stander was the first fight that I ever saw.

[Riddick Bowie]

Amazed a mod has never banned Caractacus for his infuriating habit of spamming threads with videos that have nothing to do with the topic.

So many good posters have quit or been banned, while this pointless man continues to derail conversations with his stupidity.