The wrestling career of Jack Johnson

[Caractacus]

Along with Boxing Jack Johnson helped supplemented his income with wrestling bouts over the years (even as the HW Boxing champion of the World) ,
including upon his release from Levanworth in 1921.
My question is,
Does there exist an annotated listing of his wrestling matches as to whom and where and when he had them ?
and If Not ,Why Not ?

[gilgamesh]

I can't answer most of that for you, but I can answer the "If not, why not" part.

Wrestling records back in that era are spotty at bests. Hell they're spotty even in the modern era.

[Caractacus]

( Jack Johnson vrs Fred Marcussen in Berlin Germany,January 1914)

[BitPlayer]

There's a few on cyberboxingzone, but not very many.


Also the first "MMA" would probably be Pankration, which was boxing and wrestling too. Early modern boxing was pretty much a free for all.

[gilgamesh]

There's a few on cyberboxingzone, but not very many.


Also the first "MMA" would probably be Pankration, which was boxing and wrestling too. Early modern boxing was pretty much a free for all.

Indeed. I was recently reading a book about the Cultural history of Boxing, and the description of the sport prior to the creation of the Marques of Queensbury rules as we know them was pretty crazy to imagine.

[Caractacus]

yeah,the title in that video is in-correct.
because Jack Johnson was competing as a wrestler against Fred Marcussen and not as a Boxer.
He did enter a big wrestling tournament at the
Nouveau Cirque in Montmarte(Paris) France during November-28-1913,
which had wrestlers from other countries in it.
Jack Johnson was wrestling a dude known as Andre Sproul aka"The Savage Siberian".
who was a dirty wrestler and was fouling Johnson so Johnson did revert to pugilism
and knocked him out.(reportedly there was a riot after the event)
Due to that,sometimes Andre Sproul's name can be seen on Jack Johnson's ring record as a 'title defense".
in the same tournament Jack Johnson also wrestled,
Germany's "Great Uhrbach" (Johnson wins Falls 2:0)
Scotland's Jemmy Esson (Johnson loses Falls 2:0)

[Caractacus]

Jack Johnson discusses his wrestling in his 1927 autobiography IN THE RING AND OUT (pages 109-110).
The tournament in Paris France in November 1913 was one of "considerable magnitude"
He knocked his opponent out 'with a blow to the jaw"(Andre Sproul)after his constant fouling.
(the newspaper accounts claim it was a blow to the wrestler's solar plexus)

He wrote that also he wrestled an opponent on the estate of a German Brewer outside of Hamburg Germany around February 1911
( and was paid in cash and merchandise).
and on March 1911 he traveled to Gothenburg Sweden to wrestle "Hansen"
who was the wrestling idol of that country and was considered ubeatable (Johnson won)
In July 1918 he wrestled the Spanish Wrestling Champion Juan Ochoa,
in a bull ring outside Bilbao Spain and won that one too.
"I took the champion for a fall in eighteen minutes".

[SteveO]

He did enter a big wrestling tournament at the
Nouveau Cirque in Montmarte(Paris) France during November-28-1913,
which had wrestlers from other countries in it.
Jack Johnson was wrestling a dude known as Andre Sproul aka"The Savage Siberian".
who was a dirty wrestler and was fouling Johnson so Johnson did revert to pugilism
and knocked him out.(reportedly there was a riot after the event)
Due to that,sometimes Andre Sproul's name can be seen on Jack Johnson's ring record as a 'title defense".

Yes, Caractacus I have seen books that incorrectly list Johnson's contest against Andre Sproul as a heavyweight title defence.
When Sproul started fouling him Jack knocked him out with a series of body shots.
Johnson was a bad dude when he got annoyed, Stanley Ketchel was testament to that!
I believe Johnson 'toyed' with a lot of opponents throughout his career when he knew he could beat them easily. Much like Muhammad Ali did in some of his fights.

[Caractacus]

some additional info concerning his wrestling as well as some links to some old newspaper articles.

http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultim ... 001352;p=1

[Caractacus]

He did a lot of wrestling as an aside to supplement his income it looks like.

[gp.]

Wrestling has always been fake., Even back then.

You might as well include a boxer's appearances on tv chat shows. It's just them picking up a bit of money for a "celebrity appearance".

[APerno]

[Caractacus]

bump

[Caractacus]

( Jack Johnson vrs Fred Marcussen in Berlin Germany,January 1914)

looks like Jack Johnson may have attempted to stun him with a left hook to the temple at 0:11 seconds of the clip.

[MelvinGriffin]

Wrestling has always been fake. Even back then.

You might as well include a boxer's appearances on tv chat shows. It's just them picking up a bit of money for a "celebrity appearance".

Totally agree with you

[gilgamesh]

Wrestling has always been fake., Even back then.

You might as well include a boxer's appearances on tv chat shows. It's just them picking up a bit of money for a "celebrity appearance".

In 1914 it wasn't fake as far as I know, and this is coming from a guy who has an extensive knowledge of Wrestling history.

It started to be pre-determined sometime in the 1920's so guys could make more money, prevent injury, and frankly avoid the matches being so boring.

[Caractacus]

anyone find any more info of Jack Johnson's wrestling matches ?

[HomicideHenry]

Wrestling has always been fake., Even back then.

You might as well include a boxer's appearances on tv chat shows. It's just them picking up a bit of money for a "celebrity appearance".

There has always been matches in every sport that was fixed, but wrestling didn't really become rasslin' until the 1920s. People want to talk about Bret Hart and the Montreal Screwjob, but Zybysko vs Munn was the first time the business was basically exposed because of a double-cross.

Ed Lewis purposely lost to Munn, a football player, in the hopes of making a tremendous bundle off the return match. However to make the man seem more credible Lewis talked Zybysko into losing to Munn and he would cut him in on the profits--- but Zybysko had other ideas.

He wanted to take the title off of Lewis, because he was the number one contender, but Lewis lost to this novice and Zybysko saw his chance--- so he obliterated Munn and took the title effortlessly.

Considering how easily disposed Lewis was by Munn, and Zybysko easily destroyed Munn, when Zybysko and Lewis had hard fought battles made the public see that the whole thing was a sham and people were pretty irate.

That was in 1925.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/t ... d-be-fixed

[pound per pound]

Wrestling has always been fake., Even back then.

You might as well include a boxer's appearances on tv chat shows. It's just them picking up a bit of money for a "celebrity appearance".

In 1914 it wasn't fake as far as I know, and this is coming from a guy who has an extensive knowledge of Wrestling history.

It started to be pre-determined sometime in the 1920's so guys could make more money, prevent injury, and frankly avoid the matches being so boring.

I am of the same opinion. Wrestling didn't pay like boxing did, even back then. Jack as a wrestler was interesting but curiously enough he was better at wresting in a boxing ring! Those who have seen the old films know what I'm talking about!