Fights that fighters turned down or avoided

[scartissue]

Bobby Chacon didn't want to fight Hector Camacho.

There was a little more to it than that. Don King was pushing Camacho for the title and was offering Chacon $250,000 for the defense. However, Camacho was not the #1 contender. Boza Edwards was. And Chacon was offered $450,000 to defend his title against his #1 contender. But the WBC backed their promoter Don King over their #1 ranked contender. Their corruption was overwhelming. And this should never have been a big deal.

[elmersalsa]

Well if Duran said that he wanted the fight then he must have really wanted it.

Duran did wanted it. His management team didn't grant his wishes

[Nile4000]

Bobby Chacon didn't want to fight Hector Camacho.

There was a little more to it than that. Don King was pushing Camacho for the title and was offering Chacon $250,000 for the defense. However, Camacho was not the #1 contender. Boza Edwards was. And Chacon was offered $450,000 to defend his title against his #1 contender. But the WBC backed their promoter Don King over their #1 ranked contender. Their corruption was overwhelming. And this should never have been a big deal.

Thanks, Scar, never knew that part of it .

[Nile4000]

Roberto Duran's manager, Carlos Eleta of Panama, refused to take a fight with WBA World Jr Welterweight Champion, Antonio Cervantes of Colombia.

But, on the contrary, Duran said that Cervantes' manager, Ramiro Machado of Venezuela, didn't want his fighter to fight Duran.

Duran said that he wanted the fight badly.

Who is really telling the truth?

I know for certain that Duran wanted the fight. I saw it when Antonio Cervantes beat Esteban de Jesus handily in Panama City, Panama.

The Hands of Stone told the reporter in Spanish, that "I wish that Don Carlos (Duran's manager), makes this fight as soon as possible because that guy,(Kid Pambele), doesn't beat me!"

Duran was furious. Maybe because Cervantes beat De Jesus easier than he did? Or because he beat Duran's stablemate Alfonso "Peppermint" Frazer easily and twice by knockout. All 3 fights were in Panama.

Elmer, do you feel that Roberto could have done it?

[elmersalsa]

Who is really telling the truth?

I know for certain that Duran wanted the fight. I saw it when Antonio Cervantes beat Esteban de Jesus handily in Panama City, Panama.

The Hands of Stone told the reporter in Spanish, that "I wish that Don Carlos (Duran's manager), makes this fight as soon as possible because that guy,(Kid Pambele), doesn't beat me!"

Duran was furious. Maybe because Cervantes beat De Jesus easier than he did? Or because he beat Duran's stablemate Alfonso "Peppermint" Frazer easily and twice by knockout. All 3 fights were in Panama.

Elmer, do you feel that Roberto could have done it?

I think that he could have beaten Antonio Cervantes, even though Kid Pambele was a fantastic fighter. He had the reach and height advantages over Duran. And he could hit hard.

Back then, I believed that my childhood hero could have beaten anybody. The ONLY TIME that I had doubt was when he was facing the great Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal in 1980.

That was the ONLY TIME that I had doubt that he would win. And he did win in fantastic fashion. Duran surprised me that night to tell you the truth.

After the Montreal fight, I used to believe that NOBODY beats my hero, Roberto Duran! Nobody! But, then came "No Mas" and the rest is history. I cried like I have never cried for a fighter before. "No Mas" hurt me for years until recently, it doesn't sting like back then. Nile4000

[Ambling Alp II]

The first Leonard fight was the only one that you doubted that he would win?
So beforehand you thought he would win all those fights that he would lose?

[elmersalsa]

The first Leonard fight was the only one that you doubted that he would win?
So beforehand you thought he would win all those fights that he would lose?

Before facing Sugar Ray, I never feared that someone would have beaten the Hands of Stone.

At the aftermath of the "No Mas" fight, I have learned that nobody's INVINCIBLE.

There's no fight in history that has marked my life like "No Mas". The impact of that fight stayed on me forever.

[Controversial]

Holmes relinquished the WBC belt to fight Marvis Frazier (10-0) instead of fighting WBC number one contender Greg Page (22-1)

[elmersalsa]

Did the great Alexis Arguello of Nicaragua purposely lost to Vilomar Fernandez of Dominican Republic to avoid a showdown with the great Roberto Duran?

[Nile4000]

I know for certain that Duran wanted the fight. I saw it when Antonio Cervantes beat Esteban de Jesus handily in Panama City, Panama.

The Hands of Stone told the reporter in Spanish, that "I wish that Don Carlos (Duran's manager), makes this fight as soon as possible because that guy,(Kid Pambele), doesn't beat me!"

Duran was furious. Maybe because Cervantes beat De Jesus easier than he did? Or because he beat Duran's stablemate Alfonso "Peppermint" Frazer easily and twice by knockout. All 3 fights were in Panama.

Elmer, do you feel that Roberto could have done it?

I think that he could have beaten Antonio Cervantes, even though Kid Pambele was a fantastic fighter. He had the reach and height advantages over Duran. And he could hit hard.

Back then, I believed that my childhood hero could have beaten anybody. The ONLY TIME that I had doubt was when he was facing the great Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal in 1980.

That was the ONLY TIME that I had doubt that he would win. And he did win in fantastic fashion. Duran surprised me that night to tell you the truth.

After the Montreal fight, I used to believe that NOBODY beats my hero, Roberto Duran! Nobody! But, then came "No Mas" and the rest is history. I cried like I have never cried for a fighter before. "No Mas" hurt me for years until recently, it doesn't sting like back then. Nile4000

Elmersalsa, that's great you had that faith in Roberto Duran. Because even though I was a big Ray Leonard, Michael Spinks, and Greg Page fan, just couldn't do it. Leonard was an egomaniac who was supposedly engaging in non-moral behavior, Page lost too much, and Spinks went out bad.

[elmersalsa]

Elmer, do you feel that Roberto could have done it?

I think that he could have beaten Antonio Cervantes, even though Kid Pambele was a fantastic fighter. He had the reach and height advantages over Duran. And he could hit hard.

Back then, I believed that my childhood hero could have beaten anybody. The ONLY TIME that I had doubt was when he was facing the great Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal in 1980.

That was the ONLY TIME that I had doubt that he would win. And he did win in fantastic fashion. Duran surprised me that night to tell you the truth.

After the Montreal fight, I used to believe that NOBODY beats my hero, Roberto Duran! Nobody! But, then came "No Mas" and the rest is history. I cried like I have never cried for a fighter before. "No Mas" hurt me for years until recently, it doesn't sting like back then. Nile4000

Elmersalsa, that's great you had that faith in Roberto Duran. Because even though I was a big Ray Leonard, Michael Spinks, and Greg Page fan, just couldn't do it. Leonard was an egomaniac who was supposedly engaging in non-moral behavior, Page lost too much, and Spinks went out bad.

To tell you the truth and kid you not, I am a Sugar Ray Leonard fan, also. But, I love Roberto Duran. Duran when I was a kid meant everything to me. Sugar Ray came after. So, my first 3 boxing heroes were Duran, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray. Then, the greats like Eusebio Pedroza, Bobby Chacon, Julio Cesar Chavez and James Toney were my favorite fighters in my teens and adulthood in my 20s.

I don't have favorite boxers now after the great Manny Pacquiao retired. Of my favorite fighters before I was born I got as my favorites like Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan and Vicente Saldivar.

I believe that Armstrong should be the greatest boxer ever in everybody's list instead of the great Sugar Ray Robinson. I think that Robinson was overrated.

Of the fighters that were not a favorite of mine but I have still much respect and cared for are the greats like Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Thomas "The Hitman" Hearns, Salvador Sanchez, Floyd Mayweather, Jr and Roy Jones, Jr.

[elmersalsa]

Of my favorite Roberto Duran's opponents, I like Ken Buchanan, Ray Lampkin and Esteban De Jesus. Three fantastic fighters that could give any Lightweight in history fits. One, was a near true all-time great in Buchanan. Buchanan was so underrated and special that I even bought his autobiography. He was champion in all levels of pro competition.

Did Duran's management team avoided Buchanan? I think yes. Duran would fight anybody. But, his management team had the last word of who to fight.

[Nile4000]

Of my favorite Roberto Duran's opponents, I like Ken Buchanan, Ray Lampkin and Esteban De Jesus. Three fantastic fighters that could give any Lightweight in history fits. One, was a near true all-time great in Buchanan. Buchanan was so underrated and special that I even bought his autobiography. He was champion in all levels of pro competition.

Did Duran's management team avoided Buchanan? I think yes. Duran would fight anybody. But, his management team had the last word of who to fight.

You're a good man, after around the mid 90s, I got disgusted and stop watching boxing for the most part. IYHO, do you feel Roberto's management could have possibly caused him to miss out on Alexis?

[elmersalsa]

Of my favorite Roberto Duran's opponents, I like Ken Buchanan, Ray Lampkin and Esteban De Jesus. Three fantastic fighters that could give any Lightweight in history fits. One, was a near true all-time great in Buchanan. Buchanan was so underrated and special that I even bought his autobiography. He was champion in all levels of pro competition.

Did Duran's management team avoided Buchanan? I think yes. Duran would fight anybody. But, his management team had the last word of who to fight.

You're a good man, after around the mid 90s, I got disgusted and stop watching boxing for the most part. IYHO, do you feel Roberto's management could have possibly caused him to miss out on Alexis?

I don't think that the great Alexis Arguello wanted that fight for real. He probably let himself get beaten by a Duran's victim, Vilomar Fernandez of the Bronx, NY to say forget about it.

Or maybe Fernandez was that good? In no way in my opinion, Arguello should have never lost to Fernandez.

I remember back then that that was the FIGHT that the public wanted to see. Duran was receiving his highest payday to date at $300,000 dollars at New York City's Madison Square Garden.

Somebody blew it off.

[Nile4000]

Of my favorite Roberto Duran's opponents, I like Ken Buchanan, Ray Lampkin and Esteban De Jesus. Three fantastic fighters that could give any Lightweight in history fits. One, was a near true all-time great in Buchanan. Buchanan was so underrated and special that I even bought his autobiography. He was champion in all levels of pro competition.

Did Duran's management team avoided Buchanan? I think yes. Duran would fight anybody. But, his management team had the last word of who to fight.

You're a good man, after around the mid 90s, I got disgusted and stop watching boxing for the most part. IYHO, do you feel Roberto's management could have possibly caused him to miss out on Alexis?

I don't think that the great Alexis Arguello wanted that fight for real. He probably let himself get beaten by a Duran's victim, Vilomar Fernandez of the Bronx, NY to say forget about it.

Or maybe Fernandez was that good? In no way in my opinion, Arguello should have never lost to Fernandez.

I remember back then that that was the FIGHT that the public wanted to see. Duran was receiving his highest payday to date at $300,000 dollars at New York City's Madison Square Garden.

Somebody blew it off.

If that happened, Alexis should be ashamed of himself. But then, losing to Roberto might have strongly damaged his ego.

[Ambling Alp II]

I think that he could have beaten Antonio Cervantes, even though Kid Pambele was a fantastic fighter. He had the reach and height advantages over Duran. And he could hit hard.

Back then, I believed that my childhood hero could have beaten anybody. The ONLY TIME that I had doubt was when he was facing the great Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal in 1980.

That was the ONLY TIME that I had doubt that he would win. And he did win in fantastic fashion. Duran surprised me that night to tell you the truth.

After the Montreal fight, I used to believe that NOBODY beats my hero, Roberto Duran! Nobody! But, then came "No Mas" and the rest is history. I cried like I have never cried for a fighter before. "No Mas" hurt me for years until recently, it doesn't sting like back then. Nile4000

Elmersalsa, that's great you had that faith in Roberto Duran. Because even though I was a big Ray Leonard, Michael Spinks, and Greg Page fan, just couldn't do it. Leonard was an egomaniac who was supposedly engaging in non-moral behavior, Page lost too much, and Spinks went out bad.

To tell you the truth and kid you not, I am a Sugar Ray Leonard fan, also. But, I love Roberto Duran. Duran when I was a kid meant everything to me. Sugar Ray came after. So, my first 3 boxing heroes were Duran, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray. Then, the greats like Eusebio Pedroza, Bobby Chacon, Julio Cesar Chavez and James Toney were my favorite fighters in my teens and adulthood in my 20s.

I don't have favorite boxers now after the great Manny Pacquiao retired. Of my favorite fighters before I was born I got as my favorites like Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan and Vicente Saldivar.

I believe that Armstrong should be the greatest boxer ever in everybody's list instead of the great Sugar Ray Robinson. I think that Robinson was overrated.

Of the fighters that were not a favorite of mine but I have still much respect and cared for are the greats like Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Thomas "The Hitman" Hearns, Salvador Sanchez, Floyd Mayweather, Jr and Roy Jones, Jr.

As usual, I am going to call you out again about saying that you are a Leonard fan. You aren't. That is a lie. You say that to make it look like you are unbiased.
You once said that Leonard was not a real fighter. You don't say that about someone that you are a fan of.

[elmersalsa]

Elmersalsa, that's great you had that faith in Roberto Duran. Because even though I was a big Ray Leonard, Michael Spinks, and Greg Page fan, just couldn't do it. Leonard was an egomaniac who was supposedly engaging in non-moral behavior, Page lost too much, and Spinks went out bad.

To tell you the truth and kid you not, I am a Sugar Ray Leonard fan, also. But, I love Roberto Duran. Duran when I was a kid meant everything to me. Sugar Ray came after. So, my first 3 boxing heroes were Duran, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray. Then, the greats like Eusebio Pedroza, Bobby Chacon, Julio Cesar Chavez and James Toney were my favorite fighters in my teens and adulthood in my 20s.

I don't have favorite boxers now after the great Manny Pacquiao retired. Of my favorite fighters before I was born I got as my favorites like Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan and Vicente Saldivar.

I believe that Armstrong should be the greatest boxer ever in everybody's list instead of the great Sugar Ray Robinson. I think that Robinson was overrated.

Of the fighters that were not a favorite of mine but I have still much respect and cared for are the greats like Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Thomas "The Hitman" Hearns, Salvador Sanchez, Floyd Mayweather, Jr and Roy Jones, Jr.

As usual, I am going to call you out again about saying that you are a Leonard fan. You aren't. That is a lie. You say that to make it look like you are unbiased.
You once said that Leonard was not a real fighter. You don't say that about someone that you are a fan of.

My thoughts are not yours. That's understandable.

[elmersalsa]

The reason that I have said that the great Sugar Ray Leonard was not a real fighter was because he always had the backing and leeway from the American media more than any other fighter that I have ever witnessed. He had all the tools on his favor and demands.

That he was a once in a lifetime talent? Yes, he was. Did he needed help from the American media and their agenda? No at all.

Many great fighters never had the privilege that he had. He called the shots for every of his fights. Always a stipulation.

Compared to the greats like the other Fab 4 of Duran, Hagler and Hearns, and even Wilfred Benitez, they could never call the shots. They had to go through the "Leonard System" or nothing.

Then, some people in here want to rank him top 10 pound per pound of all-time. That's insane!

For starters, Ambling Alp, he ONLY had 40 fights. That's not a fair shot for a fighter to be ranked top 10 when others fought their ass off for peanuts and had as twice as many fights that he had. Some of them had more knockouts than Leonard had fights.

Some of them had MORE LONGEVITY and DURABILITY. Just because he beat 4 great fighters in the top 100 doesn't mean he got to be put in the top 10 all-time. If it is, then, why the great Jimmy McLarnin of Ireland is not top 10 all-time pound per pound? He beat as many more fighters as Leonard did and beat 4 guys that are considered top 100 pound per pound all-time material: Pancho Villa, Benny Leonard, Barney Ross and Tony Canzoneri. Why McLarnin is not top 10 then?

If we go on the rankings according to who do you beat, then the rankings would be unbalanced. There's more to it in ranking fighters than just who do you beat.

And for last, let's look at Sugar Ray's career. From 1977 to 1982, he was PHENOMENAL. Nothing could be taken away from him. And he had future more lucrative fights coming to enhance his legacy, like a super fight with Aaron Pryor and an undefeated and up coming superstar Donald Curry. He didn't fight them. Well, you can't fight everybody.

But from 1982 to 1997, Leonard was pathetic. He ONLY had 7 fights! You mean to tell me that a guy that only had 7 fights in 15 years should be top 10? Really?

Some of his wins were also questionable. A fast rematch ASAP against Duran when Duran was enjoying his greatest win of his career. What management team gives $8 million dollars to the other management team for a quick rematch? Or was it promoter Don King that gave the money. That was the quick bait. If he was a real fighter, he would let Duran enjoy his title win, let him train properly to see if you could beat him at his very best. What other fighter in history would have pulled off a rematch that quickly? Not if you're not the cash cow.

Plus the stipulations: Give Duran's management team $8 million dollars. That was the bait. That was the strategy. A great strategy. Enlarge the ring more so that Leonard could run and make the people believe that he "fought his fight" this time. Study Duran's films. Who supplies the tapes? Not the average person. It got to be someone that got access. Can we say ABC's Howard Cossell in the backing?

Duran, nor Hagler nor any other fighter study tapes. Only Leonard.

Then, picking the gloves and rounds against Marvelous. In 1982, he EMBARRASSED Marvelous in his retirement party hosted by who else, Cossell, telling the people that he ain't going to fight Marvelous. Five years later, now he is ready to fight him? Why he didn't challenged him earlier?

The picking of fighters after that. Winning 2 titles in one night against a guy that nobody knows who had to shed 7 pounds. Another stipulation? Donny Lalonde? Please give me a break!

Hearns beats him clearly in the rematch and it's a draw? Come on, man! What fighter gets those privileges and media backing?

The picking of opponents finally caught up on him when Terrible Terry Norris gave him a shellacking for 12 rounds.

I ain't got nothing against Leonard. But, boy, I have never seen a fighter had so much leeway. Not even the great Muhammad Ali had leeway like that.

Plus, $40,000 dollars in your first pro fight? Duran only made $25 dollars in his pro debut. Do the math.

[Wee Tommy]

40000-25= 39975.

[elmersalsa]

40000-25= 39975.

It doesn't even come close. What fighter had made $40,000 in his debut as a pro fighter? I can't name 3. Maybe 1.

That's why guys like Marvelous and The Hands of Stone had a big resentment against Leonard. He didn't go through the grinding process.

Marvelous had to fight almost 50 fights to get a title shot? He had to go to other people's hometowns to kick their asses because nobody in the top 10 wanted nothing with the likes of Willie Monroe and Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts.

[Ambling Alp II]

To tell you the truth and kid you not, I am a Sugar Ray Leonard fan, also. But, I love Roberto Duran. Duran when I was a kid meant everything to me. Sugar Ray came after. So, my first 3 boxing heroes were Duran, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray. Then, the greats like Eusebio Pedroza, Bobby Chacon, Julio Cesar Chavez and James Toney were my favorite fighters in my teens and adulthood in my 20s.

I don't have favorite boxers now after the great Manny Pacquiao retired. Of my favorite fighters before I was born I got as my favorites like Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan and Vicente Saldivar.

I believe that Armstrong should be the greatest boxer ever in everybody's list instead of the great Sugar Ray Robinson. I think that Robinson was overrated.

Of the fighters that were not a favorite of mine but I have still much respect and cared for are the greats like Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Thomas "The Hitman" Hearns, Salvador Sanchez, Floyd Mayweather, Jr and Roy Jones, Jr.

As usual, I am going to call you out again about saying that you are a Leonard fan. You aren't. That is a lie. You say that to make it look like you are unbiased.
You once said that Leonard was not a real fighter. You don't say that about someone that you are a fan of.

My thoughts are not yours. That's understandable.

You said that Leonard wasn't a real fighter. It is a lie to say that you are a fan of Leonard.