John Ruiz

[DrDuke]

The Povetkin fight was the worst display of holding I can remember.
That fight made Ruiz fights look exciting

Klit/Povetkin was outrageous. Flagrant corruption and favouring of the A-side.

The fight was in Moscow right? I doubt they were showing any favoritism to the Non-Russian fighter in Russia.

Wlad was just better. They did deduct a point from him at some point I recall. Which was the only point he lost in the fight.

I don't think, the place mattered in that particular sense. Call it a conspiracy theory, but I believe, Klit was paid extra money for allowing Povetkin to survive in front of the hometown crowd. That can be the reason for the ref not to DQ Klit.

[Riddick Bowie]

The fight was in Moscow right? I doubt they were showing any favoritism to the Non-Russian fighter in Russia.

Wlad was just better. They did deduct a point from him at some point I recall. Which was the only point he lost in the fight.

Russians consider Ukranians Russian. Ukraine is a Lenin invention. Nevertheless, re-watch the fight to remove all doubt. If you can stomach it. The reffing is among the most corrupt I've ever seen. Wlad should have been warned multiple times then disqualified.

He was warned multiple times, and then had a point deducted. The holding decreased significantly after the point deduction. So no he shouldn't have been disqualified.

No he wasn't, he was literally never warned for holding. His point was deducted for throwing Povetkin to the canvas. His unprecedented amount of clinching was way beyond anything seen in any heavyweight title fight that exists on film.

I cannot believe a boxing fan would even bother to defend Wladimir or the atrocious reffing, unreal.

[gilgamesh]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

[DrDuke]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I can't believe a Boxing fan would be satisfied with a hugging match continuing instead of a boxing match.

[gilgamesh]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I can't believe a Boxing fan would be satisfied with a hugging match continuing instead of a boxing match.

The holding ceased after the point deduction. Or at least decreased significantly.

You can take a point from a guy for holding. You can take 2.

I can only recall 1 time ever that a person was actually DQ'd for holding, and that wasn't a title fight.

[DrDuke]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I can't believe a Boxing fan would be satisfied with a hugging match continuing instead of a boxing match.

The holding ceased after the point deduction. Or at least decreased significantly.

You can take a point from a guy for holding. You can take 2.

I can only recall 1 time ever that a person was actually DQ'd for holding, and that wasn't a title fight.

Of course, first you warn, then you deduct, then you DQ. Yet nothing of that was in the corrupt Ruiz bouts and it wasn't made properly in the Klit-Pov bout.

Akinwande was rightfully DQed against Lewis in the title fight.

[gilgamesh]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would be satisfied with a hugging match continuing instead of a boxing match.

The holding ceased after the point deduction. Or at least decreased significantly.

You can take a point from a guy for holding. You can take 2.

I can only recall 1 time ever that a person was actually DQ'd for holding, and that wasn't a title fight.

Of course, first you warn, then you deduct, then you DQ. Yet nothing of that was in the corrupt Ruiz bouts and it wasn't made properly in the Klit-Pov bout.

Akinwande was rightfully DQed against Lewis in the title fight.

Ahh alright. Well see I never saw that particular fight.

I did see Jesse Ferguson get DQ'd against Tyson. I think it's listed on Boxrec as a TKO, but that's bullsh*t. He was DQ'd. He was clinching. The referee literally had to pry them apart because he wouldn't break when told to, and eventually the ref had enough of it and DQ'd him.

They called it a KO just to protect Mike's streak which was all KO's at the time, but that's a lie.

At any rate, do you honestly believe that Wlad would be stupid enough to get 2 point deductions and then still keep holding enough to get DQ'd? I certainly don't.

Now Ruiz may very well have, because his holding thing was the only thing that kept him in the fights. If he had to fight any other way he'd get his ass kicked.

[DrDuke]

The holding ceased after the point deduction. Or at least decreased significantly.

You can take a point from a guy for holding. You can take 2.

I can only recall 1 time ever that a person was actually DQ'd for holding, and that wasn't a title fight.

Of course, first you warn, then you deduct, then you DQ. Yet nothing of that was in the corrupt Ruiz bouts and it wasn't made properly in the Klit-Pov bout.

Akinwande was rightfully DQed against Lewis in the title fight.

Ahh alright. Well see I never saw that particular fight.

I did see Jesse Ferguson get DQ'd against Tyson. I think it's listed on Boxrec as a TKO, but that's bullsh*t. He was DQ'd. He was clinching. The referee literally had to pry them apart because he wouldn't break when told to, and eventually the ref had enough of it and DQ'd him.

They called it a KO just to protect Mike's streak which was all KO's at the time, but that's a lie.

At any rate, do you honestly believe that Wlad would be stupid enough to get 2 point deductions and then still keep holding enough to get DQ'd? I certainly don't.

Now Ruiz may very well have, because his holding thing was the only thing that kept him in the fights. If he had to fight any other way he'd get his ass kicked.

Wlad wouldn't do it again after a hard warning, cause he would KO Povetkin if he stopped clinching him. Povetkin looked like he was quite ready to go with a clean punch or two. So, it indeed wasn't that frustrating like the Ruiz multiple sh!tfests. Ruiz deserved those warnings and DQs time after time.

[oogiebe]

Akinwande was doing a holding act far beyond anything Wlad ever did. Bad comp.

[DrDuke]

Akinwande was doing a holding act far beyond anything Wlad ever did. Bad comp.

They both were worthy to be DQed, if to consider Klit in the Povetkin bout. The only difference was in Akinwande losing to Lewis inbetween clinching, while Klit was kicking Pov's butt during the times without hugging.

[Riddick Bowie]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I can't believe a Boxing fan would be satisfied with a hugging match continuing instead of a boxing match.

The holding ceased after the point deduction. Or at least decreased significantly.

You can take a point from a guy for holding. You can take 2.

I can only recall 1 time ever that a person was actually DQ'd for holding, and that wasn't a title fight.

The point wasn't deducted till round 11 and, again, was for throwing pov to the canvas, not for holding.

[gilgamesh]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would be satisfied with a hugging match continuing instead of a boxing match.

The holding ceased after the point deduction. Or at least decreased significantly.

You can take a point from a guy for holding. You can take 2.

I can only recall 1 time ever that a person was actually DQ'd for holding, and that wasn't a title fight.

The point wasn't deducted till round 11 and, again, was for throwing pov to the canvas, not for holding.

And that's fine with me.

We simply are gonna have to disagree that a DQ was called for there. I personally never want to see a major fight end on a holding DQ.

Point deductions all day long sure, but DQ. No I just can't stand behind that.

[Riddick Bowie]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I have this weird idiosyncrasy where I expect there to be rules in a boxing match. Perversely, I even expect the referee to enforce them.

[gilgamesh]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I have this weird idiosyncrasy where I expect there to be rules in a boxing match. Perversely, I even expect the referee to enforce them.

And within reason they do. There's almost always gonna be some clinching in Boxing so it's something that's not so cut and dry as a low blow or a head butt or a kick to the shins. It's a foul that you have to have leniency on. How much discretion is up to the referee.

I know I'd almost never do worse than deduct a point for holding, and that'd have to be excessive holding for me even to do that.

It'd have to be an extreme situation like the guy just won't goddamn let go of the holding or something even for a second for me to DQ a guy.

I know we all like action in Boxing, and we all love it when they're not clinching they're trading leather. But you can't always get what you want.

That's why some fighters are especially exciting, and some ain't.

Boxing is a versatile sport. There's 1000's of different ways to go about it.

In some ways as boring as a guy like John Ruiz is, you kinda have to tip your hat to him for making a pretty goddamn good living for a few years, somehow making an ugly style worked that frankly shouldn't have. He wasn't good enough to win any other way, but when he drew guys into that ugly style of fight that he came to use, it worked for him many times.

Now like all Boxing fans, I can't stand Ruiz, and I f*cking loved it anytime he got his ass handed to him, and it meant we were rid of him.

I just know Boxing comes in all shapes and sizes. It comes in many forms. There's no 1 way to fight. That's what makes it what it is.

[DrDuke]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I have this weird idiosyncrasy where I expect there to be rules in a boxing match. Perversely, I even expect the referee to enforce them.

And within reason they do. There's almost always gonna be some clinching in Boxing so it's something that's not so cut and dry as a low blow or a head butt or a kick to the shins. It's a foul that you have to have leniency on. How much discretion is up to the referee.

I know I'd almost never do worse than deduct a point for holding, and that'd have to be excessive holding for me even to do that.

It'd have to be an extreme situation like the guy just won't goddamn let go of the holding or something even for a second for me to DQ a guy.

I know we all like action in Boxing, and we all love it when they're not clinching they're trading leather. But you can't always get what you want.

That's why some fighters are especially exciting, and some ain't.

Boxing is a versatile sport. There's 1000's of different ways to go about it.

In some ways as boring as a guy like John Ruiz is, you kinda have to tip your hat to him for making a pretty goddamn good living for a few years, somehow making an ugly style worked that frankly shouldn't have. He wasn't good enough to win any other way, but when he drew guys into that ugly style of fight that he came to use, it worked for him many times.

Now like all Boxing fans, I can't stand Ruiz, and I f*cking loved it anytime he got his ass handed to him, and it meant we were rid of him.

I just know Boxing comes in all shapes and sizes. It comes in many forms. There's no 1 way to fight. That's what makes it what it is.

That's some sort of nonsense. Excessive holding is simply against the rules. You can rule a foul only one way. Warn, deduct if it doesn't help, DQ if it doesn't either.

If a boxer low blows for all time, will you allow it happen? Will you, if he headbutts for all time? Are those another ways to fight? Why the excessive holding is different?

Neither Ruiz, nor Wlad received proper warnings for particularly that foul. Yet they should have been. And they should have been DQed, if they continued.

There wasn't any 'ugly fighting'. There was no fighting at all. Only violating the rules of boxing.

[Riddick Bowie]

I can't believe a Boxing fan would call for a DQ on Holding in a World Title match.

I have this weird idiosyncrasy where I expect there to be rules in a boxing match. Perversely, I even expect the referee to enforce them.

And within reason they do. There's almost always gonna be some clinching in Boxing so it's something that's not so cut and dry as a low blow or a head butt or a kick to the shins. It's a foul that you have to have leniency on. How much discretion is up to the referee.

I know I'd almost never do worse than deduct a point for holding, and that'd have to be excessive holding for me even to do that.

It'd have to be an extreme situation like the guy just won't goddamn let go of the holding or something even for a second for me to DQ a guy.

I know we all like action in Boxing, and we all love it when they're not clinching they're trading leather. But you can't always get what you want.

That's why some fighters are especially exciting, and some ain't.

Boxing is a versatile sport. There's 1000's of different ways to go about it.

In some ways as boring as a guy like John Ruiz is, you kinda have to tip your hat to him for making a pretty goddamn good living for a few years, somehow making an ugly style worked that frankly shouldn't have. He wasn't good enough to win any other way, but when he drew guys into that ugly style of fight that he came to use, it worked for him many times.

Now like all Boxing fans, I can't stand Ruiz, and I f*cking loved it anytime he got his ass handed to him, and it meant we were rid of him.

I just know Boxing comes in all shapes and sizes. It comes in many forms. There's no 1 way to fight. That's what makes it what it is.

Klitschko illegally held all night to thwart Povetkin and the referee did nothing, presumably because he was the champ. It was flagrant bias and corruption and the fight was so horrific Wladimir had to apologise for it.

I really don't know why you're sticking to your guns with this.

[gilgamesh]

Because I can't agree with a DQ as a result of holding. Very, very few circumstances ever would make me call for a DQ because of holding and Wlad vs Povetkin didn't even come close.

[gilgamesh]

I have this weird idiosyncrasy where I expect there to be rules in a boxing match. Perversely, I even expect the referee to enforce them.

And within reason they do. There's almost always gonna be some clinching in Boxing so it's something that's not so cut and dry as a low blow or a head butt or a kick to the shins. It's a foul that you have to have leniency on. How much discretion is up to the referee.

I know I'd almost never do worse than deduct a point for holding, and that'd have to be excessive holding for me even to do that.

It'd have to be an extreme situation like the guy just won't goddamn let go of the holding or something even for a second for me to DQ a guy.

I know we all like action in Boxing, and we all love it when they're not clinching they're trading leather. But you can't always get what you want.

That's why some fighters are especially exciting, and some ain't.

Boxing is a versatile sport. There's 1000's of different ways to go about it.

In some ways as boring as a guy like John Ruiz is, you kinda have to tip your hat to him for making a pretty goddamn good living for a few years, somehow making an ugly style worked that frankly shouldn't have. He wasn't good enough to win any other way, but when he drew guys into that ugly style of fight that he came to use, it worked for him many times.

Now like all Boxing fans, I can't stand Ruiz, and I f*cking loved it anytime he got his ass handed to him, and it meant we were rid of him.

I just know Boxing comes in all shapes and sizes. It comes in many forms. There's no 1 way to fight. That's what makes it what it is.

That's some sort of nonsense. Excessive holding is simply against the rules. You can rule a foul only one way. Warn, deduct if it doesn't help, DQ if it doesn't either.

If a boxer low blows for all time, will you allow it happen? Will you, if he headbutts for all time? Are those another ways to fight? Why the excessive holding is different?

Neither Ruiz, nor Wlad received proper warnings for particularly that foul. Yet they should have been. And they should have been DQed, if they continued.

There wasn't any 'ugly fighting'. There was no fighting at all. Only violating the rules of boxing.

If there was "No fighting at all" then how did Ruiz ever win a bout?

[Ambling Alp II]

Obviously none at all is an exaggeration. Ruiz actually did have a little bit (not a lot) of ability.

But Ruiz's main strategy was to throw a punch and clinch immediately. Over and over and over. It made for close ugly fights that were difficult to score. Which is what he wanted. He would then have a 50-50 chance of beating a fighter superior to himself.
(The Kirk Johnson fight was a little different where he did an acting job to get Johnson penalized and eventually disqualified.)

The referees usually let him get away with it.
The judges usually (not always) gave him the benefit of the doubt on the score cards. (i.e. he got a draw against a shot Holyfield in their 3rd fight and somehow got the decision over Golota).
Promoters gave him one title opportunity after another over more deserving fighters.

You would be hard pressed to find a fighter in the history of boxing who got more breaks than Ruiz did throughout his career.

[DrDuke]

And within reason they do. There's almost always gonna be some clinching in Boxing so it's something that's not so cut and dry as a low blow or a head butt or a kick to the shins. It's a foul that you have to have leniency on. How much discretion is up to the referee.

I know I'd almost never do worse than deduct a point for holding, and that'd have to be excessive holding for me even to do that.

It'd have to be an extreme situation like the guy just won't goddamn let go of the holding or something even for a second for me to DQ a guy.

I know we all like action in Boxing, and we all love it when they're not clinching they're trading leather. But you can't always get what you want.

That's why some fighters are especially exciting, and some ain't.

Boxing is a versatile sport. There's 1000's of different ways to go about it.

In some ways as boring as a guy like John Ruiz is, you kinda have to tip your hat to him for making a pretty goddamn good living for a few years, somehow making an ugly style worked that frankly shouldn't have. He wasn't good enough to win any other way, but when he drew guys into that ugly style of fight that he came to use, it worked for him many times.

Now like all Boxing fans, I can't stand Ruiz, and I f*cking loved it anytime he got his ass handed to him, and it meant we were rid of him.

I just know Boxing comes in all shapes and sizes. It comes in many forms. There's no 1 way to fight. That's what makes it what it is.

That's some sort of nonsense. Excessive holding is simply against the rules. You can rule a foul only one way. Warn, deduct if it doesn't help, DQ if it doesn't either.

If a boxer low blows for all time, will you allow it happen? Will you, if he headbutts for all time? Are those another ways to fight? Why the excessive holding is different?

Neither Ruiz, nor Wlad received proper warnings for particularly that foul. Yet they should have been. And they should have been DQed, if they continued.

There wasn't any 'ugly fighting'. There was no fighting at all. Only violating the rules of boxing.

If there was "No fighting at all" then how did Ruiz ever win a bout?

Ask Don and his judges.

[HomicideHenry]

I'm in that rare minority that actually was a fan of John Ruiz. Not for his style (absolutely not) but for his willingness to seemingly fight anyone. Say what you like but in my view he was robbed against King's Kong (Valuev) in their fights.

He did have a sneaky overhand right, and could actually box and brawl--- it was just a shame that he resorted to clinching so damn much. You could literally time it, roughly every 10 seconds there was a clinch.

One-two, clinch. One-two, clinch. That's essentially a Ruiz fight (post David Tua) but prior to that he was a bit more exciting to watch. Nobody gets close to the top ten, let alone five, and stays there consistently unless you had something. It wasn't all political maneuvering.