Vitali Klitshko v Joe Frazier

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 14 Aug 2006, 12:45

Since we’ve got the Dempsey-Vitali matchup thread going, I thought this might be interesting also. Frazier is a little bigger than Dempsey, but still much smaller than the jumbo sized Klitschko.

How does the big man cope with the Frazier pressure? Does VK punch hard enough to stop the on-rushing Frazier? Can Frazier get past Vitali’s long reach? Can VK cope with the constant pressure from the much smaller Frazier? Can Frazier keep from getting pounded as he works inside aginst the giant? Will this fight follow the same pattern as the Frazier-Bugner fight?

I’d see it like this. Overheard at the end of the first round:

VK to corner men: “Man, who pissed this guy off?”

VK does OK in the first 3 rounds before beginning to tire. He ends up quitting on his stool with an injured shoulder – maybe both – after the 6th round.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 14 Aug 2006, 12:52

Vitali is too big for Smokin Joe I think, but Frazier being how great he was would keep on coming and would tire Vitali. Vitali wouldn't have the handspeed to keep Frazier off and would fall somewhere between rounds 6 and 8.

~A.W.F~

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 14 Aug 2006, 14:54

I see the end of the first round more like this:

VK to Corner: "He's not human.... He's like a piece of iron."

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 14 Aug 2006, 16:28

Frazier would beat him like a drum.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 14 Aug 2006, 19:47

What the hell is with all these Vitali Klitschko threads? I can't believe a large majority in here keeps going back to the "he's too big for such and such". Size means nothing in boxing; a good big man can lose to a good little man, despite the size proportions.

I can't believe people are saying that Klitschko could beat the likes of Dempsey and say he be too much for Frazier---I think you all really need to look at these mens records, watch more of their fights and quit acting like an authority on these fighters when the fact is your view points are so far off.

As I said with the Dempsey-Klitschko thread, this would be a similar fight, with Frazier bobbing and weaving, cutting down the ring, never backing up, and constantly throwing punches in bunches; now I know Vitali can punch, but Joe Frazier knocked out HOF fighters, knocked down HOF fighters, was relentless---what did Vitali do? Whose the best he ever stopped? And what kind of style is his to be boasted about? The man fights like Herman Munster.

Vitali Klitschko relies too much on his reach, and whenever someone got passed his reach and brought the fight to him he was weak as an infighter. Sure he has lots of heart and can take a solid punch---but outside of Lennox Lewis, who really gave Klitschko a decent test? Who in this era, outside of Lewis, who came into that fight out of shape and nearing 40, gave Klitschko hell?

Frazier fought Ali three times in brutal wars, Bonavena twice, Quarry twice, Bugner, Ellis twice, Foster, Mathis, Chuvalo, Machen, and Foreman twice. His record between just those men alone is 12-3 in the greatest era in HW history.

Who has Klitschko fought? His best opponent and greatest fight was his 6th round TKO loss to Lennox Lewis, no question. But who is left? Kirk Johnson and all his blubber? Corrie Sanders who just the year before was a relative unknown journeyman? Danny Williams who basked in obscurity being one of the most inconsistant fighters in recent years who beat a one legged Mike Tyson?

Frazier would cold cut the sucker in 6 rounds.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 14 Aug 2006, 21:38

I will be suprised if one person in this forum says Frazier would lose this fight, unless it was someone not being serious. Frazier would have had four lossess from fighting that group Irish. Remember he fought Foreman a second time and lost. But that does not detract from the point you are making, still an impressive showing against the best.

barry · Post by **barry** » 14 Aug 2006, 21:45

I would not pick Quitschko to beat Max Schmeling...much less Joe Frazier! Hell, he would be lucky to beat John Ruiz!

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 15 Aug 2006, 06:44

Can you imagine that big slow lumbering (but in fairness also tough & strong) giant fighting the monster that tore up Ali in 1971????

Klitschko is so made for Smokin Joe its beyond belief. The joy Joe would take in bobbing & weaving beneath those long arms & destroying that body might be too much for those with a weak stomach.

Pointless predicting a round, but it wouldnt go the distance.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 15 Aug 2006, 07:00

i wonder how people would have viewed Vitali if things had went a little differently?
what would people say if he had fought on against chris byrd and went on to beat lewis (albeit an old lewis)

just a thought

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 15 Aug 2006, 07:17

If's and buts. He stopped against Byrd when a hell of a lot of fighters (inc Frasier) would have carried on and imo was on his way to losing to old Lewis, cuts or no cuts. As it was he lost a perfectly ligit TKO.

History won't look kindly upon Vitali because he best wins are against the likes of Sanders (semi retired in his last fight), Johnson (260 punch bag), Williams (270 punch bag), Hide (no chin) and Donald (very average).

Frasier is too busy and unlike the likes of Danny Williams would bob and weave his way in and land too many hard shots on the inside of Vitali.

barry · Post by **barry** » 15 Aug 2006, 08:38

>>>If I expanded my all-time heavyweight lists far enough down, I'd probably have John Ruiz above Vitali Klitschko.<<<

As much as I dislike watching Ruiz, which that dislike is immense, he has certainly proven more than Vitali ever did! Not to mention that he was willing to fight when the time came while Vitali would postpone fights time and again, which was not a practice new to Vitali when he continued to put off a bout with Rahman, Vitali was already an old hand at calling off bouts before that!

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 15 Aug 2006, 09:16

Frazier would punnish Vitali. Easy decision or mid to late round stoppage.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 15 Aug 2006, 10:29

meh. klitschko took some big shots from lewis and fought back. I don't think he'd be too bothered by Frazier's power and joe wouldn't exactly be able to land at will. Such a huge size difference, it would be a hell of a job for frazier to keep on such an awkward foe for 12 rds. i'll be controversial here and say vitali wins. whilst ali was obv. the superior fighter in every department to vitali, this is a different type of challenge.

pure speculation since vitali didn't go on to clean out the division as he should have done. i'm basing this prediction on that scenario having happened.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 15 Aug 2006, 10:39

Christ Riddick have you got brain damage? Vitali was fookin knackered after 6 rds at a semi-reasonable pace v a near 40 yr old LL...

Have you ever even seen a PRIME Smokin Joe who fought Mathis, Quarry, Bonavena, Ali, 1967-71....? The guy was a frickin monster, relentless, hard punching, break neck pace, perfect bobbing & weaving technique. Vitali would not survive, no way...

Riddick, Riddick, Riddick.... say it aint so!

Jan · Post by **Jan** » 15 Aug 2006, 10:43

does anbody know how tall joe frazier in fact was? he is listed as 5 11 1/2 , but i once read in an article that he was "suprising little" and i find , he looks shorter than 5 11 1/2.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 15 Aug 2006, 10:52

overhand_right wrote:Christ Riddick have you got brain damage? Vitali was fookin knackered after 6 rds at a semi-reasonable pace v a near 40 yr old LL...

Have you ever even seen a PRIME Smokin Joe who fought Mathis, Quarry, Bonavena, Ali, 1967-71....? The guy was a frickin monster, relentless, hard punching, break neck pace, perfect bobbing & weaving technique. Vitali would not survive, no way...

Riddick, Riddick, Riddick.... say it aint so!

meh. like i said, speculation. of course ive seen the old smokin joe tapes, but vitali is such an anomaly, hulkish, awkward and draining on the opponent. i just think he'd have a real chance in this one as joe would have to WORK to get inside consistently and continually avoid those draining right hands on the way in. just think it would be a tough assignment for him given the monstrous size difference and negative style of vitali making more ground to cover for Joe.

BTW overhand what u doin these days? still training at stinky meanwood?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Aug 2006, 10:58

aye yi yi yi yi!!!! this is actually in debate? What hath god wrought?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 15 Aug 2006, 12:34

The snarling, bobbing & weaving, grunting left-hooking machine that Frazier was in 71 would have too much stamina for the bigger but much slower Klitschko.

Fraziers relentless pressure and almost manic will to win would take Klitschko into waters he didn't even know existed.

Frazier wins this one late, leaving Klitschko battered and bleeding.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 15 Aug 2006, 18:11

KOJOE90 wrote:The snarling, bobbing & weaving, grunting left-hooking machine that Frazier was in 71 would have too much stamina for the bigger but much slower Klitschko.

Fraziers relentless pressure and almost manic will to win would take Klitschko into waters he didn't even know existed.

Frazier wins this one late, leaving Klitschko battered and bleeding.

Right on Ko . Right on.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 15 Aug 2006, 20:37

I would still bet on Smokin Joe if he fouht both Klitchko's at the same time.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 15 Aug 2006, 23:44

The closest fighter I ever seen Joe Frazier fight, who was like Klitschko (height wise) was Mexican HW champion Manuel Ramos who was a little over 6'4" and had alot of power. I would say he fought a little better than Klitschko and probably had the same level of power, beating men like Ernie Terrell and Eddie Machen.

I remember watching that fight, cus it stuck out in my mind that Frazier could be hurt by an uppercut, as Frazier was visibly stunned by Ramos, who by and large fought questionable opposition, with the Terrell and Machen wins being his greatest wins.

Frazier got over the uppercut and knocked Ramos down twice to win by TKO in two rounds. I think Klitschko has a greater chin than Ramos, but over all the same ability and strength as Ramos---but I'd predict that Frazier would knocked Klitschko out in 6 rounds, if that. He was too much of a pressure fighter, fought against greater opposition, losing only four times to both Ali and Foreman.

It's no excuse that Klitschko gave up against Byrd, because he was so far ahead on points that he could have did NOTHING for the last three rounds and still have won it. Sure I give him pops for wanting to continue on against Lewis---but he wasn't fighting an in-shape Lewis, Lewis was 256 pounds in that fight, and in a rematch I believe that Lewis could have defeated Klitschko by KO in 4-5 rounds.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 16 Aug 2006, 05:48

Yeah plus the Lewis fight had the whole second half to run.. both men looked tired but LL had already confirmed several times that he could hang 12 rds in a tough fight, Vitali K never did.

LL was coming on at the completely fair stoppage, VK had shot his load early and looked to be waning, IMO...

barry · Post by **barry** » 16 Aug 2006, 23:21

>>>LL was coming on at the completely fair stoppage, VK had shot his load early and looked to be waning, IMO...<<<

Lewis was seriously coming on and as anyone can see, Vitali was starting to look for a way out with the end of each round. Vitali did good for a couple of rounds then he just started to take a beating and would have either quit, or would have been knocked out...I would say that he would have quit as that was the way the bout seemed to be going in my opinion.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 18 Aug 2006, 09:32

RIP... Vitali Klitchsko.

Different leagues of class, IMO...

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 18 Aug 2006, 09:41

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:The closest fighter I ever seen Joe Frazier fight, who was like Klitschko (height wise) was Mexican HW champion Manuel Ramos who was a little over 6'4" and had alot of power. I would say he fought a little better than Klitschko and probably had the same level of power, beating men like Ernie Terrell and Eddie Machen.

I remember watching that fight, cus it stuck out in my mind that Frazier could be hurt by an uppercut, as Frazier was visibly stunned by Ramos, who by and large fought questionable opposition, with the Terrell and Machen wins being his greatest wins.

Frazier got over the uppercut and knocked Ramos down twice to win by TKO in two rounds. I think Klitschko has a greater chin than Ramos, but over all the same ability and strength as Ramos---but I'd predict that Frazier would knocked Klitschko out in 6 rounds, if that. He was too much of a pressure fighter, fought against greater opposition, losing only four times to both Ali and Foreman.

It's no excuse that Klitschko gave up against Byrd, because he was so far ahead on points that he could have did NOTHING for the last three rounds and still have won it. Sure I give him pops for wanting to continue on against Lewis---but he wasn't fighting an in-shape Lewis, Lewis was 256 pounds in that fight, and in a rematch I believe that Lewis could have defeated Klitschko by KO in 4-5 rounds.

Ramos weighed only 208 pounds! - Come on, trying to compare him with V. Klitschko is just not accurate in terms of size. 40 + pounds (mainly of muscle) is quite a lot!...it is a tremendous amout more real size.

The size of V. Klitschko would likely hurt Frazier too a degree. However Klitschko doesn't fight well inside....and I have to believe Frazier would be able to get inside enough to make V.K. fight there.

I like Frazier inside of 10...or by comfortable UD.