Joshua on the mic

[oogiebe]

Agree with a lot of peoples sentiments , he was concussed , , the pressure was immense , and when he tried his absolute heart out and lost his , concussed brain had a meltdown ,, think about it go back to your childhood how many of us had a meltdown burst into tears and stamped our feet , .

Joshua really has all the pressure in the world on him from the start , Ok he's had a gifted carreer , from lucky olympic medal , to Eddie putting the dollars behind him and promoting him well early in the peice , , he has proved time and again he's a good boxer , some can say he's false , but i believe he's genuinly tried to be a good role model , helped ameteur clubs , gave his old ameteur trainer a car , shown that basicly he's a decent human being and deserves props for being one of the best heavyweights to ever come out of britain , not the world but Britain . .

But facts are , he cannot and will never beat Usyk , he's not got the tools , he's got the heart , but the tools are just simply not sharp enough to do the job , maybee a coach like sugar hill who teaches agresion could sharpen the tools enough that he could go on and do the job with 12 months of constant training ,, but then theres another reason he would never beat Usyk , Fury or definetly Wilder .

He's got GUNSHY ,, he can't pull the trigger , the openings at times were there for him , Usyk has good has he was , did leave massive opportunitys for AJ to clonk him on the jaw , but he simply could'nt pull the trigger , he would throw one maybee two , but not follow up instead arms back to wait the counter , if there had been a 3 and 4 , Usyk would of been defending not countering , i said in another post if AJ had fought for 1 minuite in each rnd like he did rnd 9 , that fight would of been a complete different result ,,.

He got beat by a better boer in his first fight , and somehow managed to convince himself it was a bad camp , sacked his long time coach listened to his new back slapper trainer and thought he would win the next one , discovered he was scared to get hit , and gunshy , got beat up and concussed , then had a bit of a tantrum and breakdown ,, he just really needs to take time off go reflect , get rid of his whole team and maybee start again , Go get another trainer who's whle focus is on fitness and aggresion spend 12 -18 months with him ,

Admit to himself he's not invincible and only the 3rd 4th best in the world , and who knows he may well be world champ again , other than that like i said before , go sit on a beach surrounded by dolly birds , instead of his mates

Usually being gunshy makes a fighter hesitate or be unable to fire back. AJ isn't the first fighter to face adversity. He just can't handle it.

[HomicideHenry]

I think with Joshua It's a combination of not only his own insecurities (gun shy) it's the simple fact that there always was chinks in the armor that nobody ever wanted to really accept or recognize.

Between his overly muscular frame, European straight back stiff legged style, cardiovascular issues (gassing out) and having taken a relatively soft pathway to the title to begin with and defending the title against B-grade opposition (mandatories or not) it was going to happen sooner or later that he was going to either be exposed or his limitations be on full display.

Ruiz showed that he was not invincible, and one can make the argument that it wasn't necessarily that Joshua won the rematch but rather that Ruiz threw the title away. Usyk showed that against a truly world class stylist that Joshua was incapable of out-boxing or out-fighting such an opponent.

I remember when Joshua was blowing away guys like Kingpin Johnson and everybody was acting like he was the next Lennox Lewis. I think thus far he has demonstrated that he's more in line with Frank Bruno then he ever was close to becoming Lennox Lewis. And there's nothing wrong with that. But there is a big difference between someone who is good and someone who is the goods. Joshua is good but he wasn't the goods like Tyson Fury or Oleksandr Usyk.

I suspect if he wants to really carve out a legacy for himself that truly stands out he's going to have to spend the remaining years of his boxing career trying to prove that he was at the very least the third best man of his era. I think he is capable of doing that but whether he can pull it off is the real question. Jesus only knows if Joshua can.

[coneye]

Agree with a lot of peoples sentiments , he was concussed , , the pressure was immense , and when he tried his absolute heart out and lost his , concussed brain had a meltdown ,, think about it go back to your childhood how many of us had a meltdown burst into tears and stamped our feet , .

Joshua really has all the pressure in the world on him from the start , Ok he's had a gifted carreer , from lucky olympic medal , to Eddie putting the dollars behind him and promoting him well early in the peice , , he has proved time and again he's a good boxer , some can say he's false , but i believe he's genuinly tried to be a good role model , helped ameteur clubs , gave his old ameteur trainer a car , shown that basicly he's a decent human being and deserves props for being one of the best heavyweights to ever come out of britain , not the world but Britain . .

But facts are , he cannot and will never beat Usyk , he's not got the tools , he's got the heart , but the tools are just simply not sharp enough to do the job , maybee a coach like sugar hill who teaches agresion could sharpen the tools enough that he could go on and do the job with 12 months of constant training ,, but then theres another reason he would never beat Usyk , Fury or definetly Wilder .

He's got GUNSHY ,, he can't pull the trigger , the openings at times were there for him , Usyk has good has he was , did leave massive opportunitys for AJ to clonk him on the jaw , but he simply could'nt pull the trigger , he would throw one maybee two , but not follow up instead arms back to wait the counter , if there had been a 3 and 4 , Usyk would of been defending not countering , i said in another post if AJ had fought for 1 minuite in each rnd like he did rnd 9 , that fight would of been a complete different result ,,.

He got beat by a better boer in his first fight , and somehow managed to convince himself it was a bad camp , sacked his long time coach listened to his new back slapper trainer and thought he would win the next one , discovered he was scared to get hit , and gunshy , got beat up and concussed , then had a bit of a tantrum and breakdown ,, he just really needs to take time off go reflect , get rid of his whole team and maybee start again , Go get another trainer who's whle focus is on fitness and aggresion spend 12 -18 months with him ,

Admit to himself he's not invincible and only the 3rd 4th best in the world , and who knows he may well be world champ again , other than that like i said before , go sit on a beach surrounded by dolly birds , instead of his mates

Usually being gunshy makes a fighter hesitate or be unable to fire back. AJ isn't the first fighter to face adversity. He just can't handle it.

Excatly what he was doing , one two , hesitate , jab , back for defense , jab back for defense , stood in front looking for an opening then too hesitant to throw , when he did throw in bunches he looked ok ,,, punches at Usyks chest just to keep him off balance ,, non existant ,, big hits to Usyks arms to tire them arms and drop them non existant , ,, why was always to scared of any counters , did'nt want to take a risk , ... Would'nt mind listening to Robert Garcias take on the whole thing , especielly what his imput was regards that other trainer , now its all over

[coneye]

I think with Joshua It's a combination of not only his own insecurities (gun shy) it's the simple fact that there always was chinks in the armor that nobody ever wanted to really accept or recognize.

Between his overly muscular frame, European straight back stiff legged style, cardiovascular issues (gassing out) and having taken a relatively soft pathway to the title to begin with and defending the title against B-grade opposition (mandatories or not) it was going to happen sooner or later that he was going to either be exposed or his limitations be on full display.

Ruiz showed that he was not invincible, and one can make the argument that it wasn't necessarily that Joshua won the rematch but rather that Ruiz threw the title away. Usyk showed that against a truly world class stylist that Joshua was incapable of out-boxing or out-fighting such an opponent.

I remember when Joshua was blowing away guys like Kingpin Johnson and everybody was acting like he was the next Lennox Lewis. I think thus far he has demonstrated that he's more in line with Frank Bruno then he ever was close to becoming Lennox Lewis. And there's nothing wrong with that. But there is a big difference between someone who is good and someone who is the goods. Joshua is good but he wasn't the goods like Tyson Fury or Oleksandr Usyk.

I suspect if he wants to really carve out a legacy for himself that truly stands out he's going to have to spend the remaining years of his boxing career trying to prove that he was at the very least the third best man of his era. I think he is capable of doing that but whether he can pull it off is the real question. Jesus only knows if Joshua can.

Agree his whole style from the word go has not been the best for his level , stiff robotic , no stamina , these issuses have been noticable his whole carreer , but not been worked on ,, partly i suspect because AJ is basicly deep down a loyal fella and shown loyalty to his coaching team , when in reality he should of buggered off to the states , trained with a coach maybee like sugarhill , someone who would of worked on them flaws , ,,, You know funny enough i think he could still do it , he won't Dazn and Eddie will still see him has a product and use him up ,, but personaly i think if he gets rid of everyone , goes to the states , hooks up with the right trainer fixes the flaws , gets some confidence back , he may well come again ,, Only thing i'm not sure about is wether or not he will ever be able to stop being a bit gunshy and not pulling the trigger don't really think that can be trained out of you , , but with a new found form perhaps a new found confidence will come ,, main thing though it would take time and Eddie and Dazn will not grant that .

[CaptainSpacerod]

Plenty of fighters are concussed and emotional after losing big fights but they don’t hijack the victor’s moment of glory because unlike AJ they aren’t spoilt and entitled

[SticknMove]

So:

- guy who has long cultivated a good-guy image…
- has an aggressive meltdown on his industry’s biggest stage before an audience of millions…
- makes a self-justifying rambling speech shortly thereafter…
- ends up in tears…
- then is on serious damage limitation within 24 hours.

Ignoring the absence of a slap, this is AJ’s Will Smith moment. Smith’s fall is the greater - it has cast The Fresh Prince Of Bel Air and Summertime in a different light for me, and AJ simply does not have that body of work.

On a serious note, I hope AJ gets the privacy and help he needs. Being out again before the end of the year seems a very bad idea. And I hope he knows that your best friends are the ones who tell you when you’re wrong, and that they’re the ones to listen to.

There is always a truth and honesty in flippancy.

I like AJ and his journey is a success story.

[Ruthless-RKO]

michael conlan v miguel marriaga was PPV !! ……. so there’s no doubt Joshua v Whyte will be too

That would have been on Sky, but there’s an issue at the moment.

So ESPN popped it on FITE.

Not like it cost an arm and leg.

[rd350lc]

Plenty of fighters are concussed and emotional after losing big fights but they don’t hijack the victor’s moment of glory because unlike AJ they aren’t spoilt and entitled

Absolutely spot on

[Ruthless-RKO]

Plenty of fighters are concussed and emotional after losing big fights but they don’t hijack the victor’s moment of glory because unlike AJ they aren’t spoilt and entitled

Absolutely spot on

he did the same thing when Ruiz beat him, he was definitely concussed then as well. I don't get why he needs to take the mic and start addressing the crowd.

[rd350lc]

Plenty of fighters are concussed and emotional after losing big fights but they don’t hijack the victor’s moment of glory because unlike AJ they aren’t spoilt and entitled

Absolutely spot on

he did the same thing when Ruiz beat him, he was definitely concussed then as well. I don't get why he needs to take the mic and start addressing the crowd.

Seen Fury do it , surprised he didn't break into sweet Caroline after his rant .
It's all about me, me , me

[Ricky]

Absolutely spot on

he did the same thing when Ruiz beat him, he was definitely concussed then as well. I don't get why he needs to take the mic and start addressing the crowd.

Seen Fury do it , surprised he didn't break into sweet Caroline after his rant .
It's all about me, me , me

Yeah but Fury gets the mic because he wins. And at least he does some karaoke, not a load of excuses, world affairs and 5 hip hip hoorays

[Counter-puncher]

Plenty of fighters are concussed and emotional after losing big fights but they don’t hijack the victor’s moment of glory because unlike AJ they aren’t spoilt and entitled

Absolutely spot on

he did the same thing when Ruiz beat him, he was definitely concussed then as well. I don't get why he needs to take the mic and start addressing the crowd.

Because he has had a decade of people constantly blowing smoke up his arse, for one thing. This is always going to produce at least some form of narcissistic behaviour.

add to that he's obviously both informally (through the various clowns attached to his camp) and formally done a load of sports psychology, which has given him a few verbal tools and thought processes on 'the big issues' and boxing in general; and they tell him, he's a real thinker, a real student and analyst of the sport, he is learning, his viewpoint is valuable, etc etc etc.

so not only is he a 6'5 18 stone heavyweight champion, these types tend to be full of testosterone in any case, and he has had god knows what done to his pharmacology by years of taking god knows what, along with god knows what done to his ego, by the yes-men and the snake oil/cod-psychology salesmen like Joby and Angel, and they have all been telling him how much he's getting better, how his skills have improved, 'believe it and achieve it AJ, believe it and achieve it' (i can just tell that Joby was a big fan of always repeating his catch-phrases), and:

well, he's bought into it all so fully that he literally couldn't conceive of himself losing- they decided that to build him up, they had to build his ego up (fragile after the Ruiz loss)- and so when after the fight he's still standing but he hasn't won, then the self-doubt comes raging back in- which he has to displace with his various bizarre antics.

with what the camp have done both to his body and more importantly his ego, I'd say this kind of meltdown was entirely predictable. all that screaming 'BRILLIANT boxing AJ!', it was clearly to pad his fragile ego, which when things are on track he can pretend is strong and stable, but when they are not on track......

[coneye]

Absolutely spot on

he did the same thing when Ruiz beat him, he was definitely concussed then as well. I don't get why he needs to take the mic and start addressing the crowd.

Because he has had a decade of people constantly blowing smoke up his arse, for one thing. This is always going to produce at least some form of narcissistic behaviour.

add to that he's obviously both informally (through the various clowns attached to his camp) and formally done a load of sports psychology, which has given him a few verbal tools and thought processes on 'the big issues' and boxing in general; and they tell him, he's a real thinker, a real student and analyst of the sport, he is learning, his viewpoint is valuable, etc etc etc.

so not only is he a 6'5 18 stone heavyweight champion, these types tend to be full of testosterone in any case, and he has had god knows what done to his pharmacology by years of taking god knows what, along with god knows what done to his ego, by the yes-men and the snake oil/cod-psychology salesmen like Joby and Angel, and they have all been telling him how much he's getting better, how his skills have improved, 'believe it and achieve it AJ, believe it and achieve it' (i can just tell that Joby was a big fan of always repeating his catch-phrases), and:

well, he's bought into it all so fully that he literally couldn't conceive of himself losing- they decided that to build him up, they had to build his ego up (fragile after the Ruiz loss)- and so when after the fight he's still standing but he hasn't won, then the self-doubt comes raging back in- which he has to displace with his various bizarre antics.

with what the camp have done both to his body and more importantly his ego, I'd say this kind of meltdown was entirely predictable. all that screaming 'BRILLIANT boxing AJ!', it was clearly to pad his fragile ego, which when things are on track he can pretend is strong and stable, but when they are not on track......

GOOD POST ,,

[Counter-puncher]

Good post. He damaged his stock with that rant. Fury's mental issues help him promote, Joshua's just made him look very, very silly. His constant "I'm a businessman, I'm a hustler" stuff is a signal to me too. His self-esteem seems low, like he isn't happy with being what he is i.e. a big, strong, handsome muscular man with a winning smile and a big enough dig and fighting heart to be the fourth or fifth best heavyweight in the world but probably the richest", If he was ugly or pudgy he'd not be claiming to be a businessman or hustler, he's got rich because of his image; deep down that hurts him and last night it came out, he felt like style over substance. Ironically, he actually boxed as well last night as I've ever seen him.

good points especially the bolded bit, also makes sense with him emoting about how skills and not strength win fights.

he's feeling like, if you'll excuse the phrase, 'just another big black (insert label of your choice here)..'

yeah, makes sense, the wannabe grandeur that makes him think he's a businessman/ Philosopher of Sport/ icon of self-improvement or anything really other than 'just' a big muscular bloke who punches people in the face for a living.

[olij999]

Two thoughts, both derived from Joshua's amateur career:

- I don't buy this stuff about him always being a slightly robotic muscle-bound puncher. When he won his World Championships silver medal in 2011, he lost by a single point on the counting-punches system that was used in those days to an Azeri home favourite in Baku. I recall watching it, thinking he had good skills and was pretty fluid for a heavyweight. As a pro, he seems to have fallen in love with his power, as many fighters do, to the detriment of his boxing skills. But it didn't have to be like that.

- As for next fight, that's easy. Zhilei Zhang has just lost to Hrgovic. Zhang lost to Joshua in the 2012 Olympic quarter-final. So an easy one to build up from a rematch/revenge point of view. And Zhang would be a credible enough opponent based on his last performance, while in theory not being too dangerous for Joshua.

[forcefraser]

Zhang will pagger the Bejaysus out of Joshua.

He would fare better against Hrgovic

[Counter-puncher]

Two thoughts, both derived from Joshua's amateur career:

- I don't buy this stuff about him always being a slightly robotic muscle-bound puncher. When he won his World Championships silver medal in 2011, he lost by a single point on the counting-punches system that was used in those days to an Azeri home favourite in Baku. I recall watching it, thinking he had good skills and was pretty fluid for a heavyweight. As a pro, he seems to have fallen in love with his power, as many fighters do, to the detriment of his boxing skills. But it didn't have to be like that.

- As for next fight, that's easy. Zhilei Zhang has just lost to Hrgovic. Zhang lost to Joshua in the 2012 Olympic quarter-final. So an easy one to build up from a rematch/revenge point of view. And Zhang would be a credible enough opponent based on his last performance, while in theory not being too dangerous for Joshua.

I don’t remember his ama days nearly well enough but I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to say the huge volume of added muscle in a short period after turning over, altered his physical makeup tangibly enough to enforce upon him a new boxing style.

[Boxerbeetle]

Why did he pack on so much muscle? People have been saying for years that it would eventually be his undoing. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise he’d have stamina issues in longer fights as a result.

Or was it literally just a case of being as ‘body beautiful’ as possible, to help with the ‘brand’?

[Counter-puncher]

Why did he pack on so much muscle? People have been saying for years that it would eventually be his undoing. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise he’d have stamina issues in longer fights as a result.

Or was it literally just a case of being as ‘body beautiful’ as possible, to help with the ‘brand’?

I imagine it was mostly with a mind that you have to be bigger to survive, but the endorsement possibilities that came with his physique shouldn’t be understated?

However I’m not sure he would have missed out on millions if he was ‘only’ 16st 4 rather than 18st.

That dude is looking good in his underpants steroids or no.

[Counter-puncher]

By the way I suspect amongst all the other cod psychology I’m sure AJ is victim of the common ‘positive thinking’ approaches that try to convince the patient that anything is possible and nothing impossible as long as you commit and work hard/etc. ‘the only barrier is your mind’, ‘nothing you can’t achieve if you just put your kind to it’ and so on.

Understandably people who buy into this stuff wholesale often have their rages against the Universe when they fail. ‘I put my mind to it, I was told as long as i did that I’d achieve my goals’

[jimmystone]

By the way I suspect amongst all the other cod psychology I’m sure AJ is victim of the common ‘positive thinking’ approaches that try to convince the patient that anything is possible and nothing impossible as long as you commit and work hard/etc. ‘the only barrier is your mind’, ‘nothing you can’t achieve if you just put your kind to it’ and so on.

Understandably people who buy into this stuff wholesale often have their rages against the Universe when they fail. ‘I put my mind to it, I was told as long as i did that I’d achieve my goals’

Quite so. We can't all be first in the queue at the buffet. It's literally impossible. Doesn't matter how positive we all are.

[nobleart1978]

AJ came across as a right knob.
The Sky Sports "perfect sportsman" mask well and truly slipped off.

AJ is a big guy who has been given an awful lot of help in getting to the top.

It's a good job he's not around in the 70s. Ali, Frazier, Norton, Holmes and Shavers. They would have beat him. Tyson, Holyfield & Lewis would have destroyed him....

[Spud]

AJ came across as a right knob.
The Sky Sports "perfect sportsman" mask well and truly slipped off.

AJ is a big guy who has been given an awful lot of help in getting to the top.

It's a good job he's not around in the 70s. Ali, Frazier, Norton, Holmes and Shavers. They would have beat him. Tyson, Holyfield & Lewis would have destroyed him....

Good post

[Counter-puncher]

By the way I suspect amongst all the other cod psychology I’m sure AJ is victim of the common ‘positive thinking’ approaches that try to convince the patient that anything is possible and nothing impossible as long as you commit and work hard/etc. ‘the only barrier is your mind’, ‘nothing you can’t achieve if you just put your kind to it’ and so on.

Understandably people who buy into this stuff wholesale often have their rages against the Universe when they fail. ‘I put my mind to it, I was told as long as i did that I’d achieve my goals’

Quite so. We can't all be first in the queue at the buffet. It's literally impossible. Doesn't matter how positive we all are.

It’s not unlike a parent spoiling their kids and ruining them thereby. Peoples expectations get schewed and they rage at the universe through addictions or going out with the wrong kind of crowd/boys or violent acting-out or whatever.

[stujones]

Not sure what it was about the belt throwing and he was definitely concussed. However, I think the criticism is a bit nuts really. Yes he shouldnt have hugged the limelight....but it was plenty respectful. In fact I interpreted it as "i cannot beat you".

Dont think he will be the same fighter again...you've got to believe you are the best. Even Sugar Ray Leonard after he got annihilated against Camacho said it was rust and he truly believed in his hearts he could beat RJJ who was p4p number 1 at the time. Joshua has lost the self belief now.