Joshua on the mic

[Glass Joe]

[Steveh583]

That is the problem in a nut shell. It also is perpetuated by social media insinuating that everyone should be happy all the time. It’s just not realistic. Life isn’t meant to be easy and we shouldn’t expect it to be (but this is being marketed to a generation who know no better). It’s a thorny issue. I think that the answer may come from developing a strong moral compass
and a sense of personal responsibility. Owning your shortcomings (particularly in AJs case).


I wonder how many genuine cases are denied treatment because of the overwhelming demand that comes from the ability to self diagnose.

really good points.

It also is perpetuated by social media insinuating that everyone should be happy all the time

indeed; media sells an unattainable state of mind as, not just something to aspire to, but something that you are FAILING if you fall short of.
person feels inadequate, insecure.
media tells the the reason they feel this way is they have a mental health problem.
the relevant mental health professional fortunately is able to prescribe a sh1t-ton pf pharma, so that's ok then, all's well that ends well.

I wonder how many genuine cases are denied treatment because of the overwhelming demand that comes from the ability to self diagnose.

excellent point

In regards to social media, youngsters are basically entering a game they can never ever win.

[Counter-puncher]

ha indeed, as my dad always told me the only way to approach said games is to learn how to be able to live without the game entirely.

[jimmystone]

ha indeed, as my dad always told me the only way to approach said games is to learn how to be able to live without the game entirely.

Sage advice.

[orbtastic]

Did I read this correctly the other day. Over 10 million adults in the UK are on antidepressants.

I don’t know what the adult pop is without checking but even if it’s 40 million that’s a staggering number.

[Steveh583]

ha indeed, as my dad always told me the only way to approach said games is to learn how to be able to live without the game entirely.

Gold. Win by not competing

[Steveh583]

Did I read this correctly the other day. Over 10 million adults in the UK are on antidepressants.

I don’t know what the adult pop is without checking but even if it’s 40 million that’s a staggering number.

Wouldn’t surprise me. You can’t tell me a huge percentage of that isn’t misdiagnosed. It’s anything to get you out the doctors surgery.

Someone close to me has been on anti depressants, and went to discuss getting off them. She was actively discouraged.

[Counter-puncher]

ha indeed, as my dad always told me the only way to approach said games is to learn how to be able to live without the game entirely.

Sage advice.

The kind of games he was talking about were exactly the kind of social games for shallow popularity that are nowadays magnified in social media. Knowing it wasn’t and wouldn’t ever be my strong point, his advice was (as so often) very good- for me. As I never had a problem being apart from the herd, indeed I couldn’t help being apart from it and didn’t care in the slightest, it was easy for me (to understand the concept of peer pressure one would need to perceive that one has peers in the first place, which i didn’t when I was young). For more normal people I imagine it would be very hard to be the only one NOT on social media. Who wants to make themselves different and weird and a target?

[Counter-puncher]

Did I read this correctly the other day. Over 10 million adults in the UK are on antidepressants.

I don’t know what the adult pop is without checking but even if it’s 40 million that’s a staggering number.

Wouldn’t surprise me. You can’t tell me a huge percentage of that isn’t misdiagnosed. It’s anything to get you out the doctors surgery.

Someone close to me has been on anti depressants, and went to discuss getting off them. She was actively discouraged.

Yup. I bet you can get an absolute grab bag of pharma from a phone conversation with your GP

[Boxerbeetle]

My missus’s family are nearly all on antidepressants, for basically no reason whatsoever. It’s just become a crutch for certain people, they think they can then get away with anything they like or excuse any bad element in their life as being due to “depression” or “anxiety”.

Embarrassing, be an adult and sort your life out Ffs. No need to jump on the mental health train just because it’s fashionable.

[margaret thatcher]

im, sure theres over prescribing these days, but that said it wouldnt really surprise me if people really were more anxious and depressed nowadays. so much toxic 'culture' spewed nonstop through more platforms than ever. never ending negative news stories, focusing on the worst aspects of human behavior, etc

[high tower 1]

Is he playing the mental health card now ? Twat.

I always gave him the benefit of the doubt despite the texts to Eddie chambers , praising mugabe, saying down buy in “they’re” shops at the BLM March. Turns out he’s just a massive twat.

[si7dog7]

Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

One of the many. It’s also a method used to absolve ones self of all personal responsibility. Certainly in furys case.

i think we've possibly had this conversation before, you and I?

i expressed on here some years ago that I was nervous of the way the quasi-universality of 'mental health problems' was being marketed. I was accused by someone who himself was a genuine sufferer, perhaps rightly on some levels that I was insensitive/ call it what you will.

The intervening 5 years or so has seen the problem as I perceive it become worse.

Actually my primary concern was that the narratives that say (EG) 'everybody will suffer mental health problems at some point' or 'anybody at any time can suffer from mental health problems' (I believe both statements to be incorrect, as it happens), create a situation where someone who is 'a little bit sad' over a fundamentally transient short term problem can either in their own head or through the persuasions of others (including doctors, mental health professionals or family and friends, i had an employee's mother perform an on-the spot diagnosis of anxiety for me, once, for example) be convinced that this temporary sadness or disquiet, common to us all in life, is a problem that is both an illness or condition, and quite possibly a permanent, structural one.

I actually didn't really focus- although i made a reference- to those who would 'use' the catch-all of mental health problems as excuse not to: go to work today or for a month or forever/ pay their tax/ be a good husband/ whatever. I guess the cynical side of it seemed so predictable, given the degree of cynicism inherent in human nature, that it was almost taken as read as part of the situation.

it still deeply concerns me that the (to me) excessive focus on mental health problems, and specifically their quasi-universality, will (IMO) produce generations who misconceive their transient sadness as permanent trauma. a bit sad, a bit stressed, will become ever-more assumed to be structural permanent issues.


As a society we are institutionalising it, and I don't know what the answer is without somehow sh1tting on the genuine cases, which I do not wish to do at all.

I don’t post much anymore. Used to back in the day on SecondsOut etc.
This…..
One of the best posts I have read in a long, long time
Chapeau.. Counter-Puncher

[tonyevs]

The vague label that is ‘mental health’ is now the get out of jail card to excuse bad behaviour for an entire generation. It also undermines the struggle of people living with genuine mental illness. And if you call it out you get labelled ignorant instantly. Who is diagnosing these people with ‘mental health’? Is it suitably qualified professionals? It seems to be the only Illness you can self diagnose and it’s taken as a given. AJ had just lost a huge fight and multiple world titles. You aren’t meant to feel chipper after that. It excuses nothing. It was a tantrum.

Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

Fury ran with the bipolar claim when it seemed to be fashionable. Anyone who has been around someone with a formal diagnoses of bipolar will know Fury doesn`t have it.
However he scores pretty high for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

*Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
*Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
*Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
*Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
*Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
*Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
*Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
*Take advantage of others to get what they want
*Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
*Be envious of others and believe others envy them
*Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office


* AJ would score highly for NPD too

[Boxerbeetle]

The vague label that is ‘mental health’ is now the get out of jail card to excuse bad behaviour for an entire generation. It also undermines the struggle of people living with genuine mental illness. And if you call it out you get labelled ignorant instantly. Who is diagnosing these people with ‘mental health’? Is it suitably qualified professionals? It seems to be the only Illness you can self diagnose and it’s taken as a given. AJ had just lost a huge fight and multiple world titles. You aren’t meant to feel chipper after that. It excuses nothing. It was a tantrum.

Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

Fury ran with the bipolar claim when it seemed to be fashionable. Anyone who has been around someone with a formal diagnoses of bipolar will know Fury doesn`t have it.
However he scores pretty high for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

*Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
*Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
*Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
*Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
*Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
*Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
*Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
*Take advantage of others to get what they want
*Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
*Be envious of others and believe others envy them
*Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office


* AJ would score highly for NPD too

Sounds like 90% of world title holders would meet that criteria.

[Ricky]

Is he playing the mental health card now ? Twat.

I always gave him the benefit of the doubt despite the texts to Eddie chambers , praising mugabe, saying down buy in “they’re” shops at the BLM March. Turns out he’s just a massive twat.

In all my years watching boxing i think Joshua may just be the most unlikeable character I've came across.

(I mean, at least Antonio Margarito just ran with the villain of the piece role and played it to perfection, there was something endearing about that).

[mickey1975]

Most of that list doesn't apply to a Heavyweight champion! The achievements aren't fantasies or exaggerated, they are very real.

[Wee Tommy]

Most of that list doesn't apply to a Heavyweight champion! The achievements aren't fantasies or exaggerated, they are very real.

I agree with that. He’s done things that very very few people could ever manage. He said he would, he was doubted, yet he still managed to achieve great things in his chosen field.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

The vague label that is ‘mental health’ is now the get out of jail card to excuse bad behaviour for an entire generation. It also undermines the struggle of people living with genuine mental illness. And if you call it out you get labelled ignorant instantly. Who is diagnosing these people with ‘mental health’? Is it suitably qualified professionals? It seems to be the only Illness you can self diagnose and it’s taken as a given. AJ had just lost a huge fight and multiple world titles. You aren’t meant to feel chipper after that. It excuses nothing. It was a tantrum.

Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

Fury ran with the bipolar claim when it seemed to be fashionable. Anyone who has been around someone with a formal diagnoses of bipolar will know Fury doesn`t have it.
However he scores pretty high for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

*Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
*Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
*Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
*Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
*Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
*Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
*Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
*Take advantage of others to get what they want
*Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
*Be envious of others and believe others envy them
*Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office


* AJ would score highly for NPD too

If Fury doesn't suffer from severe depression he's doing a very thorough job faking it. He was saying disturbingly depressed things in the run up to the Wlad rematch. Both Fury and his father claimed Tyson went to a mental health who said Tyson was a high suicide risk. The same mental health professional diagnosed him with Bipolar. If that is all faked either John Fury would have to be in on it or Tyson fooled the mental health professional and his father into believing he was suicidal

Now TF may also have NPD but he may not. Boxing in itself is a narcissistic endevour. Someone can indulge in degrees of narcissism without being on the NPD spectrum. A key component of NPD is lacking empathy for others.

[forcefraser]

I watched the whole Joshua rant in full again last night. What an absolute clown.

Massively disrespectful to Usyk what he did in there, storming in and taking like that. Usyk showed massive humilty and restraint to go through that shit without clocking him.

I get that Joshua was emotional but there is no excuse for that.

Hearn is going through it right now.All we need is for Golovkin to beat Canelo and Eubank Jr to destroy Benn and old Eddie is up the creek.

[jimmystone]

One of the many. It’s also a method used to absolve ones self of all personal responsibility. Certainly in furys case.

i think we've possibly had this conversation before, you and I?

i expressed on here some years ago that I was nervous of the way the quasi-universality of 'mental health problems' was being marketed. I was accused by someone who himself was a genuine sufferer, perhaps rightly on some levels that I was insensitive/ call it what you will.

The intervening 5 years or so has seen the problem as I perceive it become worse.

Actually my primary concern was that the narratives that say (EG) 'everybody will suffer mental health problems at some point' or 'anybody at any time can suffer from mental health problems' (I believe both statements to be incorrect, as it happens), create a situation where someone who is 'a little bit sad' over a fundamentally transient short term problem can either in their own head or through the persuasions of others (including doctors, mental health professionals or family and friends, i had an employee's mother perform an on-the spot diagnosis of anxiety for me, once, for example) be convinced that this temporary sadness or disquiet, common to us all in life, is a problem that is both an illness or condition, and quite possibly a permanent, structural one.

I actually didn't really focus- although i made a reference- to those who would 'use' the catch-all of mental health problems as excuse not to: go to work today or for a month or forever/ pay their tax/ be a good husband/ whatever. I guess the cynical side of it seemed so predictable, given the degree of cynicism inherent in human nature, that it was almost taken as read as part of the situation.

it still deeply concerns me that the (to me) excessive focus on mental health problems, and specifically their quasi-universality, will (IMO) produce generations who misconceive their transient sadness as permanent trauma. a bit sad, a bit stressed, will become ever-more assumed to be structural permanent issues.


As a society we are institutionalising it, and I don't know what the answer is without somehow sh1tting on the genuine cases, which I do not wish to do at all.

I don’t post much anymore. Used to back in the day on SecondsOut etc.
This…..
One of the best posts I have read in a long, long time
Chapeau.. Counter-Puncher

Agreed. Good post from C-P.

I'm convinced social media from 2005 or so onwards has fucked everybody up or made them think they are fucked up.

[bripez]

Most of that list doesn't apply to a Heavyweight champion! The achievements aren't fantasies or exaggerated, they are very real.

Indeed they are, until he finally retires and he can then concentrate on becoming a doctor and then an astronaut (as he has said previously).

[Boxerbeetle]

I’m going to sample the 5 hip hip hoorays and use it as my ringtone.

[tonyevs]

Fury has never been diagnosed by a professional but he has run with his self diagnosis for the last few years, and people lap it up.

Fury ran with the bipolar claim when it seemed to be fashionable. Anyone who has been around someone with a formal diagnoses of bipolar will know Fury doesn`t have it.
However he scores pretty high for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

*Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
*Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
*Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerate achievements and talents
*Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
*Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
*Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
*Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
*Take advantage of others to get what they want
*Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
*Be envious of others and believe others envy them
*Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office


* AJ would score highly for NPD too

If Fury doesn't suffer from severe depression he's doing a very thorough job faking it. He was saying disturbingly depressed things in the run up to the Wlad rematch. Both Fury and his father claimed Tyson went to a mental health who said Tyson was a high suicide risk. The same mental health professional diagnosed him with Bipolar. If that is all faked either John Fury would have to be in on it or Tyson fooled the mental health professional and his father into believing he was suicidal

Now TF may also have NPD but he may not. Boxing in itself is a narcissistic endevour. Someone can indulge in degrees of narcissism without being on the NPD spectrum. A key component of NPD is lacking empathy for others.

Both Fury and his father are full of BS .. its not like either haven`t got a very long CV of telling factually incorrect tales of grandeur for attention. There is no proof to the claim .. bipolar is an illness of peaks of mania and troughs of depression; high risk of suicide would have seen him being admitted if only for a night; mania typically sees people thinking they are Superman on a very good day (remember the recent British boxer doing this not so long ago?) ... the grandiosity of bipolar is at a whole different level of the narcissist.


Lacking empathy for others is one of the markers - but very few PDs will have every marker of the criteria; hence why for diagnoses you need x amount out of the list - not all.

[handsofstone]

Joshua got accused of not caring after getting battered by Ruiz, now he's a bad loser, granted he probably has to show some middle ground, take his lumps, sit in the background and give his opponent their dues instead of taking the mike and waffling

People obsess about Joshua's mental state all the time even before Ruiz, Fury made millions of mental health and Wilder clearly has lost his marbles after some of the excuses he continues to make after Fury knocked him out but nobody in boxings mental well being is more documented than AJ's