Sullivan didn't fight any name heavyweights, he avoided them. His prime was a short one that lasted until his mid 20's. The men he fought were often older, smaller, and had spotty record. He should be remembered as a pioneer and icon, and not taken about outside his time, which happened when the transition to bare knuckles to gloves was happening.Cap wrote: ↑06 Jun 2016, 17:13I just finished reading Adam Pollack's bio of Corbett. Corbett was afraid of Sullivan landing a solid punch so he ran and ducked and slipped to tire the old man out. As for Mitchell, he was barely a middleweight. Five nine and 150 pounds when he fought Sullivan for real with gloves on. Jake Kilrain was a cyclist turned boxer whose best win was a 44 round knockout of light heavyweight George Godfrey. Fourty-four rounds! Still, he was easily Sullivan's best opponent. Too bad they fought London Prize Ring Rules. Pretty much MMA stuff. Clutching, grabbing, rolling around, choke holds. Throw a guy down and land on his stomach with your knees!Ambling Alp II wrote:You aren't being fair to him, Cap. Of course he fought a lot of "tavern brawler" or those types. He fought literally anyone (white of course) around.
However, they weren't all bad. Charley Mitchell and Jake Kilrain were good fighters.
If he was that bad, he never would have lasted until the 21st round against Corbett after being out for three years.
My guess is that he was not as crude as some people may think.
Sullivan was unbeatable in his prime because there was no one remotely like him at what he did. Guys who could actually box tended to be too small to hurt him or take his KO punch (Irish Jack Burke, Dominick McCaffrey, etc), the ones who were as big or bigger had little or no skill (Herbert Slade, Paddy Ryan, etc). When he finally met a guy who was his own size and could actually box he lost. Corbett probably could have stopped Sullivan earlier but he didn't have the nerve. He was more interested in acting on stage than fighting in the ring.
Sullivan was one of the big names in sports back then, along with Ned Hanlan the world champion sculler, even though most states outlawed what he did. I think Peter Jackson, Frank Slavin, Joe Goddard, Joe Choynski, Bob Fitzsimmons, and a few other boxers from the Glove Era would have beaten him easily Marquis of Queensberry Rules and five ounce gloves. That's just my opinion though, based on all I've read over the years.
I agree Peter Jackson, Frank Slavin, Joe Goddard, Joe Choynski, and Bob Fitzsimmons would have been his best opponents by far, and he might have lost these matches had they happened. I think Fitzsimmons would have been him with Jackson likely winning late. IMO Goddard and Slavin would have a shot. Choynski had a spotty record but sure could hit. Choysnki is probably a loser, but well never know for sure. His KO 3 over Jack Johnson sure looks good on paper, and clips show Choysyki could move very well.
Sullivan was a puncher in a land of few, and fought none. We can deduce he had a big right hand, was durable and popular with the fans. The concepts of using a jab, his footwork, defense, head movement, a left hook, and the basics os boxing however were not part of his game. After sparring with James J. Jeffries, Sullivan gave a very honest opinion by saying the game has changed and a person with the skills of his time would have been beaten badly by Jeffries, who had his hands full at times vs. Corbett and Fitzsimmons. I think that puts its into perspective. But someone had to be the first recognized glove champion and Sullivan brought glory to the game,
