Fighters Who Were Death In Rematches

[HomicideHenry]

1.) Joe Louis

2.) Sugar Ray Robinson

3.) Muhammad Ali

4.) Lennox Lewis

5.) Willie Pep/Sandy Saddler

6.) Rocky Marciano*

7.) James J. Jefferies

8.) Sugar Ray Leonard

9.) James J. Braddock

10.) George Foreman


Joe Louis had trouble with Buddy Baer, Arturo Godoy, Joe Walcott and lost to Max Schmeling...all those fights he avanged, though he didn't lose to any of them in the first place, but made sure that no one was better than him. His epic rematch with Schmeling is a prime example of what a man can do when he is finely tuned and save all weapons but his fists can do to another.

Sugar Ray Robinson lost to the likes of Gene Fulmmer, Jake LaMotta, Carmen Basilio, avenging his losses in stunning fashion and with class. Possibly the most brutal was the "St. Valentines Day Massacre" bout with Jake LaMotta, a true classic war between two extraordinary fighters.

Ali lost to Frazier and Norton, only to beat both men twice in return bouts in grueling wars that could have went either way. Norton broke Ali's jaw in their first match and soundly out pointed him in the return. But the "Thrilla in Manila" was one of the greatest fights, if not THE greatest battle in ring history.

Lennox Lewis only lost twice in his career. Both by KO's. His return match against Oliver McCall was one of the bizarre in ring history, as Lewis beat McCall so badly that 'The Atomic Bull' had a nervous break down and began to cry uncontrolably. He lost to Rahman by surprise kayo in 5 rounds, only to come in the return as the winner by KO in four one sided rounds.

Willie Pep's matches with the imposing Sandy Saddler, a freak of nature if there ever was one, were some of the most brutal, illegal tactic affairs in ring history. Pep the scientific wonder versus Saddler the puncher/boxer both elbowed, head butted, shouldered, eye gauged eachother in their returns. Pep lost to Saddler the first time, only to defeat the powerful Saddler in the return---only to lose two more times with Saddler. The true epitomy of the old axiom 'styles make fights'.

Though he never lost as a professional, Rocky Marciano was death in rematches. When he faced Roland LaStarza the first time it was the closest time that Marciano ever lost, in the rematch he broke LaStarza's arms and KO'd him in 11 rounds. He went 13 grueling rounds with Joe Walcott only to blow him away in a single round in the return, and stopped Ezzard Charles in 8 rounds in their return, when the first match went 15.

James J. Jefferies went 23 rounds with James J. Corbett only to blow him away in 10 rounds in the return. He went 11 rounds to win the title against Bob Fitzsimmons, only to destroy him in 8 in the return.

Sugar Ray Leonard's return with Roberto Duran is one of boxing's greatest upsets as Duran waved himself out of the fight saying 'No Mas!'. In return matches he beaten Duran a third time, drew against Tommy Hearns when their first match was a 14th round KO win for Leonard.

James J. Braddock's come back was and still is one of the greatest upsets in history. While as a Light Heavyweight he had lost to John Henry Lewis, but in his come back he had managed to win a 10 round decision over his former foe, when the first fight was a 10 round loss for Braddock. That win, as well as his wins over Art Lasky and Corn Griffin made him the #1 contender for Max Baer's HW title, in which Braddock won over 15 rounds.

George Foreman blew away Joe Frazier in two rounds. The rematch went five, but Foreman still managed to KO Frazier again. Foreman fought Boone Kirkman in 1975 in the "Toronto Five" incident, blowing away Kirkman in 2 rounds, the same as he had done before in 1970. Another "Toronto Five" contender Foreman fought was Charlie Polite, blowing him away in 3 rounds, when their first fight in 1970 went four. Foreman fought Peralta back in 1970 and went the distance, in their return in 1971 he knocked out Peralta in 10 rounds.

Anyone else want to throw in some names of fighters who were death in rematches? :P

[amohoop34]

I know everyone around here hates him, but Tarver wouldn't be a bad choice. Lost a decision to Harding, knocked him out in the 5th. Lost a decision to Jones, knocks him out in the 2nd. Loses split decision to Glen Johnson, beats johnson by unanimous decision. Not a bad resume.

[thunderfromdownunder]

I know everyone around here hates him, but Tarver wouldn't be a bad choice. Lost a decision to Harding, knocked him out in the 5th. Lost a decision to Jones, knocks him out in the 2nd. Loses split decision to Glen Johnson, beats johnson by unanimous decision. Not a bad resume.

i dont like the man, but i have to agree

[Neo]

I wouldn't include Foreman, who never showed the ability to truly improve in rematches. An underrated choice might be Shane Mosley. He convincingly lost to Forrest and Wright. But though he did improve in the rematches, he didn't do enough to win. I think that's what'd keep him off a list like this. I had the second Forrest fight a draw, and I've heard people give a similar score for the second Wright fight. I thought he won the De la Hoya rematch outright, and he was killer in the Vargas rematch.

Excellent point. He lost so badly to both Forrest and Wright that most of us questioned the sanity of rematches. He performed very well in those rematches. His rematch win over De la Hoya was so so in my book and definitely not an improvement to his career defining win in the first match. Gee... Mosley's story is turning out to be far better than we give him credit for and I call myself a fan.

[kick asner]

Hagler had two losses and two draws and avenged them all by impressive knockout.

[JC]

I don't think Leonard belongs on this particular list. Yes he put on a clinic in the no mas fight but Duran was not himself that night and I felt he lost the rematch with Hearns.

Great fighter but not nessessarily "death in rematches"

[Tantum]

Ray Leonard got his ass beat by Hearns in the rematch... Not sure why he's being mentioned.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

marciano, louis, robinson are the clear choices....


every time marciano gave a man a rematch lowry, buonvino, walcott, charles, lastarza.....he won the rematch much more clearly and in much more dominating fashion.



louis was even more impressive and dominating in the rematches. every fighter he rematched he did much better than in the first fight .

[DaveV17]

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[BoxBuzz]

You might want to watch that one closer next time.....Ali won enough rounds to win....the best the Norton fans could have hoped for was a draw in that one which admittedly was a very competitive fight.

[kick asner]

Wanted to come back and revise my earlier post about Hagler was a bit rushed and said he only had two losses. I know that he had three but two in which he was given a rematch. He had some other rematches also in fights that he won.

So he was 5 and 0 all by ko with fighters who he had lost to or fought a draw with.

Against fighters he had previously beaten he was 5 and 0 with 1 draw. Four of the five were by ko and one was by dq which I don't know the details about. The one draw was to Ray Seals which he later aveanged by a first round ko.

So he was 10-0-with 1 draw with 9 kos and one dq. Out of the eleven nine of the fights were against top contenders. Thats got to put him up somewhere near the top.

[BoxBuzz]

I think Monzon beat every man he ever fought leaving no loss unavenged.

[meade95]

Ahh - On the Lennox Lewis -

He beat Rahman clearly! (without question).

Vs McCall he faced a guy who was already beaten before stepping in the ring - Crying for hours prior to the fight (and then cried in the ring to boot).....and Lennox still couldn't TKO him on his own -

Vs Holyfield.....Holyfied won that rematch (it was a make up call for the first fight in which Lennox won but was jobbed in the decision). But a clearly post-prime Holyfield still did enough to win their rematch. Lennox jabbed and ran all night. Holyfield pressed and forced the fight. Landed the better shots and shook-up Lennox a few times (if he had his younger legs and combination punching he would have stopped Lennox).....

[sockdolager]

Ahh - On the Lennox Lewis -

He beat Rahman clearly! (without question).

Vs McCall he faced a guy who was already beaten before stepping in the ring - Crying for hours prior to the fight (and then cried in the ring to boot).....and Lennox still couldn't TKO him on his own -

Vs Holyfield.....Holyfied won that rematch (it was a make up call for the first fight in which Lennox won but was jobbed in the decision). But a clearly post-prime Holyfield still did enough to win their rematch. Lennox jabbed and ran all night. Holyfield pressed and forced the fight. Landed the better shots and shook-up Lennox a few times (if he had his younger legs and combination punching he would have stopped Lennox).....

is this true? he cried in fear of Lennox or because of something else?

[meade95]

Ahh - On the Lennox Lewis -

He beat Rahman clearly! (without question).

Vs McCall he faced a guy who was already beaten before stepping in the ring - Crying for hours prior to the fight (and then cried in the ring to boot).....and Lennox still couldn't TKO him on his own -

Vs Holyfield.....Holyfied won that rematch (it was a make up call for the first fight in which Lennox won but was jobbed in the decision). But a clearly post-prime Holyfield still did enough to win their rematch. Lennox jabbed and ran all night. Holyfield pressed and forced the fight. Landed the better shots and shook-up Lennox a few times (if he had his younger legs and combination punching he would have stopped Lennox).....

is this true? he cried in fear of Lennox or because of something else?

No...Not because of Lennox - He was having a complete mental break-down. Spent some time in a hospital after this fight (psyche ward type hospital).

McCall was always a workhorse type individual. Talented guy. But always had both drug and mental problems. They showed themselves again prior to this fight.

[kick asner]

Just wondered how Mccall is doing now? It was a bad time to suffer a nervous breakdown. I just wonder if anyone who was close to him picked up on this before the fight and said lets talk about whats bothering you.

[barry]

Azumah Nelson was as good as any fighter I can recall in a rematch! Look at his rematches against Marcos Villasana, Mario Martinez, Gabe Ruelas and especially Jeff Fenech. Even when he was an old man Nelson was able to stop Jesse James Lejia and though Nelson ended up losing two of those four bouts with one draw, I would say that the TKO 6 over Lejia was more impressive than the two points wins that Leija got! Nelson was brutal in rematches!


>>>His return match against Oliver McCall was one of the bizarre in ring history, as Lewis beat McCall so badly that 'The Atomic Bull' had a nervous break down and began to cry uncontrolably<<<

Now that is a load of bullshit! Nothing Lewis did was the cause of McCall having a breakdown...McCall had started to breakdown before he ever entered the ring and Lewis was just damn lucky that he had a win given to him and that he didn't have to fight for the win...most other top fighters would have stopped an unwilling opponent, but McCall had a hell of a lot more worry than going against Lewis and it most certainly was not Lewis that made McCall have a breakdown!

[el tigre del sur]

Azumah Nelson was as good as any fighter I can recall in a rematch! Look at his rematches against Marcos Villasana, Mario Martinez, Gabe Ruelas and especially Jeff Fenech. Even when he was an old man Nelson was able to stop Jesse James Lejia and though Nelson ended up losing two of those four bouts with one draw, I would say that the TKO 6 over Lejia was more impressive than the two points wins that Leija got! Nelson was brutal in rematches!

Are the Nelson v Leija fights good fights? Haven't seen them yet but thinking of getting them. And why did they fight 4 times - seems like a throwback to the 50's and Robinson v LaMotta that kind of thing.
In the Fenech fight I read somewhere that Nelson had been suffering from malaria prior to their first bout - any truth to this?

One last thing, does anyone think Nelson would have beaten Sanchez in a rematch? It would have been a great one that's for sure.

[barry]

>>>Are the Nelson v Leija fights good fights? Haven't seen them yet but thinking of getting them. And why did they fight 4 times - seems like a throwback to the 50's and Robinson v LaMotta that kind of thing.
In the Fenech fight I read somewhere that Nelson had been suffering from malaria prior to their first bout - any truth to this?<<<

They were all close fights, except the one where Nelson just mugged Leija. As far as being great fights...I cannot recall, but I think if they had been that I would remember. They are certainly worth a look and good to add to anyone's collection.

>>>One last thing, does anyone think Nelson would have beaten Sanchez in a rematch? It would have been a great one that's for sure.<<<

I absolutely think that Nelson could win and would actually pick him against Sanchez in a fight of both in they're prime. Nelson was too green when he fought Sanchez in 1982 and still put up one hell of a fight and being that Nelson was such a monster in rematches I think he would stand a tremendous chance of beating Sanchez. Though not an immediate rematch. Both in they're prime would be a hard fight to pick, but I wopuld have to lean toward Nelson based on how he did in the bout they had.

[el tigre del sur]

I absolutely think that Nelson could win and would actually pick him against Sanchez in a fight of both in they're prime. Nelson was too green when he fought Sanchez in 1982 and still put up one hell of a fight and being that Nelson was such a monster in rematches I think he would stand a tremendous chance of beating Sanchez. Though not an immediate rematch. Both in they're prime would be a hard fight to pick, but I wopuld have to lean toward Nelson based on how he did in the bout they had.

An argument could be made for Sanchez being underprepared for Nelson in that fight. But I have to agree it was a fantastic performance from an inexperienced but tremendously game Nelson - he put on quite a show that night. Of course, as you suggested, Sanchez hadn't reached his prime yet either. prime v prime is speculative in that unfortunately, we never got to see Sanchez reach his full potential.

[barry]

>>>we never got to see Sanchez reach his full potential.<<<

Which I sometimes forget...Sanchez was only 23 when he was killed and had up to that point a few very high-profile wins. It would have been really nice to see what Sanchez could have accomplished on top of what he did accomplish!

[pundit]

Holyfield was good in re-matches.

Jeffries - hmmm. The second time he faced Corbett and Fitzsimmons both were way over the hill (Fitzsimmons was 40-something).

Btw, Max Schmeling was pretty good in rematches too if you abstract from the Louis bout. Gene Tunney fought (besides Dempsey) re-matches with only one fighter - Harry Greb - but in these repeated rematches Tunney improved a lot.