Steroid abusers of the past

[Caractacus]

Joe Frazier use to work out like a Mo-Fo,
but he never had any buldging muscles with muscles
all over him.
Neither did Muhammad Ali.

[punchoutsb]

Joe Frazier use to work out like a Mo-Fo,
but he never had any buldging muscles with muscles
all over him.
Neither did Muhammad Ali.

There is infinitely more to PEDs then bulging muscles…

[Ambling Alp II]

s etc. [, quote=brilo33 post_id=5802387 time=1664040068 user_id=94481]

As this is a topic that pops up in most sports more and more, I am interested to know what boxers of the past and present who have admitted to using, tested positive to or have been linked to with good suspicion steroids and performance enhancing drugs.

Thanks guys

s,

i honestly think over 85 percent were taking some sort of ped just like today, i wouldnt be surprised if the boxer or even the trainer didnt even know they were remember peds have been around since ww2, i mean rocky 4 was getting at it , the ones who werent were not heard off i cant think of a champ who werent maybe floyd ?
[/quote]

85% ?
I guess that this is the kind of statement that I don't like. People just throw out numbers.

We know that certain people have done it because they were caught and/or admitted it. Obviously many people did it that were never caught but the fact is we really have no idea how many or what %.

We don't know what % of boxers, NFL players, NBA players, MLB players are doing it now, much less in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s etc.

Also think that some people like to say that "everyone is doing it" so that it doesn't look so bad if a guy they liked was caught doing it.

We should be careful what we say.

[Controversial]

Joe Frazier use to work out like a Mo-Fo,
but he never had any buldging muscles with muscles
all over him.
Neither did Muhammad Ali.

As someone else said it isn’t always about building muscle. It can improve endurance, recovery times and overall strength. You only have to look at the elite cyclists caught out, they are often built like a matchstick but their endurance levels were taken to whole new level.

[bwu]

Bob Hazleton, who competed at heavy and had a win over Bob Foster, was open about his abuse. He lost both legs and attributed it to steroid use.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Sorry to hear the vast majority here are Viagra users contaminating our waterways with pharmacopeia aids responsible for millions of rapes of women and children world wide originated for ol' gits needing assistance with their elderly wives.

Since everyone does it, going back in history, we must all have been addicted heroin, alcohol, and nicotine for how many millennia? Don't know what happened since, but I never knew a heroin addict and not that many nicotine and alcohol addicts though from my observational history here I could be excused in thinking all Brits were a bunch of drunken louts.

Alas, I was never a part of the maddening crowd stampede of simplistic group thinking. Despite the trillions burnt in the ongoing failure of the War on Drugs, school kids are dropping like flies from fentanyl laced maryjane and sedatives obtained through that network, but more importantly, not all are expiring, what, that magical 85% figure bandied about here supposed to be on drugs?

We don't really know here because this country, USA, is better suited to wasting hundreds of millions yearly on specious political polls that usually prove worthless because of the limitations of the pollsters who tend to make a hash out of everything they touch.

Been years from my last research, but yeah, late 30s seems to be the discovery of steroids not that anyone in that Depression era had the financing to figure what they were good for in advance of the massive military build up of WW2. So, yeah 50s in the middle of the McCarthy Red Scare, why everyone was a commie and doing steroids, amma right?

Viagra still a pipe dream then.

When I turned 8, for my birthday I got a 60lb Healthways barbell set I used until it was boring me. Extensive handbook told of methods to build testosterone using weights and diets, but me just a wiry kid. Entering 8th grade age 13, my beloved shot up 6" and interested in bigger game than a pipsqueak who didn't even weigh in at Charles Atlas' 99lb weakling scale. I tore into the weights with a pair of 25lbers added for 110lbs that I eventually fleshed out with another 50lb during the next summer off and on until I turned 15. Now I weighed 150lb and my uncle was calling me Mr Muscles, but I also grew a half foot meaning I was entering my adolescent testosterone year where I had back acne that lasted well into adulthood and seemingly permanent erection that gave me much grief where I used my school books to disguise my condition that my nightly dreams that I could never remember couldn't disguise. Given all the comments about my muscles where guys were constantly asking me for advice in building theirs, I figured I was high testa count that continues to this very day though I can no longer train because of a problematic double bum leg. The good news is I could fight the blubber who calls himself Fury thanks to extra lard.

Specifically going back to the Baseball forum on RIP AOL in the middle of BALCO Barry's record HR season, I was constantly at odds over accusations of his muscle gains and bigger skull dimensions, all unproveable not that evidence matters to the usual internet idiots: speaking of, whatever happened to PoochBelly Toby on the Brit forum? He proved in his delusions that AJ was a steroid user because he has the typical big man Nigerian poochbelly!

Mid 50s @ excellent trained down 150 lb, I pulled out my old Healthway weights and handbook to devise a non standard heavy lifting schedule of alternating daily exercises weekly rest on Sunday like the good Lord intended with a single portion of meat added to my already substantial diet for the 3 winter months where I worked outside. By the Spring I was swaggering around in public looking for fights I was so off scale filled with testa, now at 170. I was told point blank that was impossible, but I doubtless could go much higher, but point proven. Prime age Bonds had gained 25% of his rookie bodyweight over 15 years. I had gained 13% of my good condition mid 50s weight in 3 months. And it was easy to maintain with sporadic lifting.

But in fact I had already proven Bonds was on something when his offensive stats spiked some 20-60% after a traditional career ending Achilles injury thanks to modern surgical techniques that allowed him to continue. And Lo & Behold, BALCO broke with him on their client list starting at that exact time, point double proven now.

That was a specific example easy for me to figure. What you chaps are proposing is all encompassing with precious little evidence. There's pics of Victor McLaglen as a young fighter that you boys would be accusing, and he wasn't alone. Growing up in my era it was accepted that some men are more manly than others, and some women more feminine than others. Dunno the brand of Koolaide some of you been drinkin', but I'm big on Beer with my own Bean and Cheese Corn Tortilla Tacos with my own salsa

[Controversial]

That was a specific example easy for me to figure. What you chaps are proposing is all encompassing with precious little evidence. There's pics of Victor McLaglen as a young fighter that you boys would be accusing, and he wasn't alone. Growing up in my era it was accepted that some men are more manly than others, and some women more feminine than others.

Performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) don't necessarily mean you end up looking like a bodybuilder, improved recovery times, increased stamina and strength don't equate to muscle size but they will help a fighter compete better. I think most would agree boxing is the most corrupt sport in the world, anything you can bet on or where competitors can earn life changing amounts of money you will get cheats. No one will ever know numbers, I don't know who said 85% and I doubt it was that much too but I'd be amazed if PEDs were available in other sports that they wouldn't be used in boxing too, more so at the top end of the divisions. Of course no PEDs make someone technically better, if you can't fight then you still won't be able to fight but for the top guys that extra boost can be a game changer. If PEDs were in greater use in the 1950s in other sports then why not boxing which has a long history of corruption? That means at least 40+ years in boxing little to no checks were made on fighters and when they did the testing procedures weren't great, easy to cheat if you knew how, inconsistent what was classed illegal or the same processes across the world. Even today with all the testing fighters still have ways to pass the checks.

[Ambling Alp II]

Agree with most of that.
The biggest part is the "If PEDs were in greater use in the 1950s in other sports".
I don't think there is any way in the world that more athletes were using PEDs in the 1950s than say the 1980s and 1990s.

[Controversial]

Agree with most of that.
The biggest part is the "If PEDs were in greater use in the 1950s in other sports".
I don't think there is any way in the world that more athletes were using PEDs in the 1950s than say the 1980s and 1990s.

No I meant if the 50s was when PEDs became more used in sports generally then why would boxing be any different.

[Ambling Alp II]

Oh, OK.
I agree that if athletes in other sports (such as football) were starting to do it, then it probably started to happen in boxing as well.

[punchoutsb]

- Sorry to hear the vast majority here are Viagra users contaminating our waterways with pharmacopeia aids responsible for millions of rapes of women and children world wide originated for ol' gits needing assistance with their elderly wives.

Since everyone does it, going back in history, we must all have been addicted heroin, alcohol, and nicotine for how many millennia? Don't know what happened since, but I never knew a heroin addict and not that many nicotine and alcohol addicts though from my observational history here I could be excused in thinking all Brits were a bunch of drunken louts.

Alas, I was never a part of the maddening crowd stampede of simplistic group thinking. Despite the trillions burnt in the ongoing failure of the War on Drugs, school kids are dropping like flies from fentanyl laced maryjane and sedatives obtained through that network, but more importantly, not all are expiring, what, that magical 85% figure bandied about here supposed to be on drugs?

We don't really know here because this country, USA, is better suited to wasting hundreds of millions yearly on specious political polls that usually prove worthless because of the limitations of the pollsters who tend to make a hash out of everything they touch.

Been years from my last research, but yeah, late 30s seems to be the discovery of steroids not that anyone in that Depression era had the financing to figure what they were good for in advance of the massive military build up of WW2. So, yeah 50s in the middle of the McCarthy Red Scare, why everyone was a commie and doing steroids, amma right?

Viagra still a pipe dream then.

When I turned 8, for my birthday I got a 60lb Healthways barbell set I used until it was boring me. Extensive handbook told of methods to build testosterone using weights and diets, but me just a wiry kid. Entering 8th grade age 13, my beloved shot up 6" and interested in bigger game than a pipsqueak who didn't even weigh in at Charles Atlas' 99lb weakling scale. I tore into the weights with a pair of 25lbers added for 110lbs that I eventually fleshed out with another 50lb during the next summer off and on until I turned 15. Now I weighed 150lb and my uncle was calling me Mr Muscles, but I also grew a half foot meaning I was entering my adolescent testosterone year where I had back acne that lasted well into adulthood and seemingly permanent erection that gave me much grief where I used my school books to disguise my condition that my nightly dreams that I could never remember couldn't disguise. Given all the comments about my muscles where guys were constantly asking me for advice in building theirs, I figured I was high testa count that continues to this very day though I can no longer train because of a problematic double bum leg. The good news is I could fight the blubber who calls himself Fury thanks to extra lard.

Specifically going back to the Baseball forum on RIP AOL in the middle of BALCO Barry's record HR season, I was constantly at odds over accusations of his muscle gains and bigger skull dimensions, all unproveable not that evidence matters to the usual internet idiots: speaking of, whatever happened to PoochBelly Toby on the Brit forum? He proved in his delusions that AJ was a steroid user because he has the typical big man Nigerian poochbelly!

Mid 50s @ excellent trained down 150 lb, I pulled out my old Healthway weights and handbook to devise a non standard heavy lifting schedule of alternating daily exercises weekly rest on Sunday like the good Lord intended with a single portion of meat added to my already substantial diet for the 3 winter months where I worked outside. By the Spring I was swaggering around in public looking for fights I was so off scale filled with testa, now at 170. I was told point blank that was impossible, but I doubtless could go much higher, but point proven. Prime age Bonds had gained 25% of his rookie bodyweight over 15 years. I had gained 13% of my good condition mid 50s weight in 3 months. And it was easy to maintain with sporadic lifting.

But in fact I had already proven Bonds was on something when his offensive stats spiked some 20-60% after a traditional career ending Achilles injury thanks to modern surgical techniques that allowed him to continue. And Lo & Behold, BALCO broke with him on their client list starting at that exact time, point double proven now.

That was a specific example easy for me to figure. What you chaps are proposing is all encompassing with precious little evidence. There's pics of Victor McLaglen as a young fighter that you boys would be accusing, and he wasn't alone. Growing up in my era it was accepted that some men are more manly than others, and some women more feminine than others. Dunno the brand of Koolaide some of you been drinkin', but I'm big on Beer with my own Bean and Cheese Corn Tortilla Tacos with my own salsa

This was a fun post, your writing style reminds me of John McCallum.

Looking at a body is not always an indication of PED use, since there are so many different kinds. If maximizing muscular hypertrophy is the goal, then it's easy, but that is not a goal for most athletes. Even if looking at a body was the be-all-end-all, Victor McLaglen doesn't look enhanced in the slightest. Leaning on the fact that "some men are more manly that others" is fine (and true), as long as you also lean on the fact that human beings always look to find advantage over their competition (also true). There's a certain level of naivety needed to believe that the openness of early PED usage, from the US Olympic Weight Lifting team to the most lopsided AFL championship game even went unnoticed and unused by other athletes. There is a reason why the IOC banned their use in 1968, and it wasn't because no one was doing it.

[Ezzard]

Joe Frazier use to work out like a Mo-Fo,
but he never had any buldging muscles with muscles
all over him.
Neither did Muhammad Ali.

Ali was injected with steroids in the 1970s. Pacheco administered them.

[Ambling Alp II]

That wasn't for performance enhancement though.

[Caractacus]

Back in the late 1920's/early 1930's, Primo Carnera had always looked like he had more (natural) testerone then the average person

[Controversial]

Joe Frazier use to work out like a Mo-Fo,
but he never had any buldging muscles with muscles
all over him.
Neither did Muhammad Ali.

Ali was injected with steroids in the 1970s. Pacheco administered them.

What was that for, did Pacheco admit that?

[Ezzard]

Yes, he wrote about it in his bio.

[Controversial]

Yes, he wrote about it in his bio.

I didn’t know that, what was he injecting him with did he say?

[Wee Tommy]

Yes, he wrote about it in his bio.

I didn’t know that, what was he injecting him with did he say?

Bulls semen.

[Ezzard]

Yes, he wrote about it in his bio.

I didn’t know that, what was he injecting him with did he say?

I can't remember the details. But I think he was saying that he had heard about their usage in sports.

[Ambling Alp II]

Like many here, I have read many biographies on Ali. Have heard Pacheco speak many times. Never read his book. All I have ever heard is that Ali was given some form of steroids late in his career (Before the Holmes fight fight I believe) for health reasons. It's not like he beat Frazier and Foreman because he was juicing.

[HomicideHenry]

I suspect that Mike Weaver was a steroid abuser although I have interviewed the man once or twice and he always maintained that he just had great genetics.

Jumbo Cummings I suspect might have been a steroid abuser as well, but then again his strength career began in prison and I doubt very much he would have had access to steroids in the joint.

[Ambling Alp II]

There a re a lot of guys that we suspect. That is the problem. Some of the guys that we suspect didn't do them. Some guys that we don't did.

[Controversial]

How would you feel if it came out your all time hero was using PEDs throughout their career? Would you view them different?

[Wee Tommy]

No not at all but mainly because I don’t have hero’s, these are just men who are great at fighting and winning. Winners always take any edge they can get. So I expect low blows, head buts and elbows to be used in the ring and performance enhancing supplements both legal and illegal, to be used outside it.

Two of my favourite fighters of all time, Evan Field and JM Marquez, I reckon both used PeDs at some points in their careers.

I myself have used them and have a lot of experience with combat and strength athletes some who use some who don’t. The vast majority do use them in my own experience.

[Caractacus]

Like many here, I have read many biographies on Ali. Have heard Pacheco speak many times. Never read his book. All I have ever heard is that Ali was given some form of steroids late in his career (Before the Holmes fight fight I believe) for health reasons. It's not like he beat Frazier and Foreman because he was juicing.

I heard it was for Ali's thyroid and it was Herbert Muhammad's personal doctor who prescribed it for Ali.