Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

I'm with you, Roger, on Burley-Smith. Not impressive but I'd bet Burley carried him.

Goose,I'm pretty sure that was their second fight.The first one Burley had Smith down twice.Didn't any knockdowns on the fight that was posted on Youtube.

I think one thing that people have to remember is during the 40's and 50's the Mob had a free rein with organized crime. J. Edgar Hoover was a stooge for the Mafia because they had photos of him making it with his number 2 guy Clyde Tolson.Hoover didn't mind as long as the wise guys would give him the tips on the races at Del Mar Racetrack when he and Tolson took their annual summer vacation together at Clint Murchison's Del Charro Hotel in La Jolla. Drugs wasn't a big money maker back then like it is now so it was gambling ,union racketeering,prostitution,and extortion that kept the Mob going. In a way kind of harmless compared to what's going today with drugs and the billions of money that's being made..I think about all those fighters during that time, with Norris' International Boxing Club and his cronies controlling most of the big arenas east of the Mississippi, and it was a breeding ground for gangsters,gamblers,and pimps,but nothing like what's going on now. Al Capone seems like an American hero by today's standards.



Al Capone

[Chuck1052]

Based on his record, Charley Burley was a great fighter. But he had a lot of boring bouts and was far from being charismatic. As a result, Burley was not much of a drawing card for a fighter of his ability and stature, even in his hometown of Pittsburgh. Meanwhile, Ezzard Charles and Sugar Ray Robinson were good drawing cards in Pittsburgh. Charles was a far more exciting fighter as a middleweight and light-heavyweight than as heavyweight.

- Chuck Johnston

Fritzie Zivic was also from Pittsburg.When Burley and Zivic fought in the Steel City the crowd was behind Zivic. I know a lot of that had to do with race.Burley's management experiences weren't the greatest. He'd walk into the gym and be greeted by some guy who'd tell him that he just bought his contract for 200 bucks. He never was handled correctly.It's said his fight with Archie Moore was made at the last minute and that he had to drive up from San Diego(where he was living at the time)to fight Moore at The Hollywood Legion Stadium.When he was inducted into the IBHOF he was too ill to make the trip to Canastota.He seems to be more revered today than when he was alive. Better late then never.


Knocked Archie Moore down 4 times in winning a decision.BUrley also missed out on some big purses.
[/quote]

The bout between Charley Burley and Archie Moore was put together at least five days before it was to take place. In other words, the story that Burley was a last-minute substitute for that bout is not true. There was a story that Burley was working at a defense plant in San Diego when he got the call to be a last-minute substitute on the day of the bout. This was during World War II when it was difficult to travel from San Diego to Hollywood in a timely manner. As I recall, the speed limit was 35 miles per hour during the war.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Based on his record, Charley Burley was a great fighter. But he had a lot of boring bouts and was far from being charismatic. As a result, Burley was not much of a drawing card for a fighter of his ability and stature, even in his hometown of Pittsburgh. Meanwhile, Ezzard Charles and Sugar Ray Robinson were good drawing cards in Pittsburgh. Charles was a far more exciting fighter as a middleweight and light-heavyweight than as heavyweight.

- Chuck Johnston

Fritzie Zivic was also from Pittsburg.When Burley and Zivic fought in the Steel City the crowd was behind Zivic. I know a lot of that had to do with race.Burley's management experiences weren't the greatest. He'd walk into the gym and be greeted by some guy who'd tell him that he just bought his contract for 200 bucks. He never was handled correctly.It's said his fight with Archie Moore was made at the last minute and that he had to drive up from San Diego(where he was living at the time)to fight Moore at The Hollywood Legion Stadium.When he was inducted into the IBHOF he was too ill to make the trip to Canastota.He seems to be more revered today than when he was alive. Better late then never.


Knocked Archie Moore down 4 times in winning a decision.BUrley also missed out on some big purses.

The bout between Charley Burley and Archie Moore was put together at least five days before it was to take place. In other words, the story that Burley was a last-minute substitute for that bout is not true. There was a story that Burley was working at a defense plant in San Diego when he got the call to be a last-minute substitute on the day of the bout. This was during World War II when it was difficult to travel from San Diego to Hollywood in a timely manner. As I recall, the speed limit was 35 miles per hour during the war.

- Chuck Johnston
[/quote]

Taking a fight on 5 day notice to fight Archie Moore is a "last minute" figure of speech.

[dagosd2000]

The Fighter From Philly

The first fight I ever saw in person is when my father took me to the Chicago Stadium. The main event was Joey Giardello and Randy Sandy.The main purpose though was that my father wanted me to meet my godfather who was the time keeper for the most of the big fights in Chicago,MIke Murphy.He was my godfather but this was the first time I can remember him.I was 10 years old. He was happy to see me and I guess I was happy to see him though this was the first time I can remember seeing him. I'll always remember the sound of that big Wurlitzer organ they had there.It was dominating. I remember that more than my godfather.

I don't recall too much about the fight.I thought it was kind of boring. Giardello won a split decision. I had to look some of this stuff up as i go along.The crowd was behind Giardello.Turned out this was the only time he fought in Chicago.When they talk about modern day Italian fighters the Italians,and fans in general, don't mention Giardello much. The pecking order is usually Marciano,Basilio,Pep,and then La Motta. I still say that movie Raging Bull made a star out of La Motta. He was sort of persona non grata becuae of what happened with him and Billy Fox although the Italians still held him in high regard because he was the first guy to beat Sugar Ray Robinson.

Joey Giardello never had any amateur fights.He also said that he taught himself how to box. Sometimes he trained and sometimes he loafed. He had over 130 fights but never got a shot at the title until Gene Fullmer opened the door in 1960.Giardello had had over 100 fights by then. The fight was out west in Bozeman ,Montana. The fight was scored a draw.I saw the fight on TV. I wanted Giardello to win but the judges I guess didn't like dagos from Philly invading their turf.

Giardello was 30 years old by then .He thought he'd never get another shot. GIardello got in a beef soon after that. They say he was involved in a riot in Philly and he went to jail.He didn't serve much time but New York revoked his license.He returned to fighting winning mostly unimpressive decisions. Ray Robinson was one of those decisions.

Dick Tiger was the middleweight champ.He had fought Giardello twice before, splitting a pair of decisions. Tiger was no spring chicken either and was looking for a soft touch for a defense. He gave Giardello the chance with Joey opting for 15 percent of the purse. He had only gone 15 rounds once and that was in the Fullmer fight. Giardello was the 3 to 1 underdog.But Joey trained hard and out boxed Tiger to win the championship.

Unfortunalely,most people remember Giardello from that movie ,The Hurricane,that portrayed him as a punch drunk champ,who in the movie got an ass kicking from Ruben"Hurricane" Carter. It was really a sh--ty movie and a sh--ty take on GIardello. In the real fight Carter looked sluggish.He didn't do enough to win. But that movie made it look like he gave Giardello a beating. Afterwards Giardello sued the producer of that flick and they settled out of court.BTW,even Carter said that Joey deserved the win.

GIardello was born in Brooklyn but when he got out of the Army he settled in Philly and stayed there. When Sylvester Stallone made his first Rocky movie it took hold of the public that they erected a statue of him on the steps of the art museum in Philadelphia. It's one of the city's biggest tourist attractions. Sounds like that Hurricane movie-all wind and smoke. But the city eventually got it right. They built a statue of a real Italian fighter who was a middleweight champion-and it wasn't Marvin Hagler.But now they should build one for Marvin too.


Joey Giardello

[dagosd2000]

Working With What You've Got

Being a good fight trainer has got to be one of the most difficult jobs around. For starters it's good to have a kid with talent and determination. Can't have a good fighter who just has one and not the other. But more often it's a kid that has neither.If a trainer has any conscience he'll tell a kid who doesn't have it to go look for a regular job.

I used to be an offensive line coach at various high schools in San Diego. The teaching pattern was the same. I'd start with the badics:proper stance,how to get out of that stance to run or pass block,the correct angles to execute the block efficiently.the use of extending the arms to block-that sort of stuff. Sometimes I'd have the kids drill in unison(looked like The Rockettes at Radio City Music Hall) or show me individually.

Boxing is different.For example Charley Goldman trained Rocky Marciano and Kid Gavilan. Talk about two different styles. Goldman took a crude powerful man like Marciano and refined what he had going for him. He shortened Rocky's stance as well as how he delivered his punches..And he made sure he was in tip top condition. Rocky was going to get hit a lot so he had better be in shape.

Gavilan on the other hand was a cutie.Not a big puncher but had everything in his arsenal. Both fighters were blessed with good chins.They could learn on the spot.They fulfilled their potential. But Goldman saw what he was working with with those two and just wanted to refine it,not to try to turn them into something they weren't.That was Archie Moore's problem when he tried to train the young Cassius Clay.Moore waned Clay to fight like him.

I have to give Angelo Dundee credit for not trying to make a transformation out of Clay.He left him alone.Many great fighters learn how to box by watching the other guys in the gym. Clay was influenced by watching all those flashy Cubans in Chis Dundee's 5th Street Gym in Miami;guys like Luis Rodriguez and Jose Legra.

But when that trainer finally finds that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow like when Jack Blackburn struck it rich with Joe Louis, all their dreams come true.


Charley Goldman

[bollocks]

Vale Johnny Famechon. Former WBC featherweight champion

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 5bpkr.html

[dagosd2000]

The Blue Skies Of Hawaii

The wife and I just got back from Hawaii ,or to be more specific Maui,yesterday. I hadn't been to Hawaii since I was a kid out of high school and that was before Cassius Clay had changed his name. I went over with a bunch of beach bums,me included,and we spent three months over there surfing and getting high every day. But I got to confess I wasn't much of a surfer.and never was in California,and what Hawaii offered in the wave department,put any ideas I had of being a big wave rider into the false hope category. There was a guy with us by the name of Pat Cosgrove. It was the first time for all of us being over there and Pat had the goods for riding those big waves.Later,he qualified as a member of the U.S. surfing team representing the West Coast in the World Championships.

Anyway, I had a good time on Maui because my wife had a good time,but the place is nothing but an overpriced tourist trap. We I went over with those guys I lived there for three months on 300 dollars. Today,300 dollars would get you a boat ride in the harbor for two and a complimentary Mai Tai. But back to the days when the place was behind the sunset.

The three of us bounced around between Maui and Oahu.While we stayed on Oahu those guys would drive on the Kam Highway to the North Shore to surf the 20 foot waves at Waimea while I stayed in Honolulu and worked out in the gym.I was hitting my stride and found a gym where a lot of locals worked with the iron. Those dudes were really big,all over 300.It's hard to say what their bloodlines were.but it's mostly a combination of different Polynesian.When I was first there there was a island in the chain called Nihau.They said only Hawaiians having pure Hawaiian blood and speaking Hawaiian could live there.I doubt if that's the case now.

Well, I'm working out with the fellas' named Kimo,Duke,and Junior and we're getting along fine.We decided after working out we'd go to the HIC arena to take in the fights.There was a local kid in the main named Domi Manaling,a Flip fighter. He was undefeated and very popular.The crowds there reminded me of the crowds in Tijuana.-real aficianados.Manalang fought lefty and brought everything he had with him. He put on a good show. I saw him fight later in Tijuana against Julio Guerrero at the Jai Alai Palace but he got KO'd.Aileen Eaton brought him to the mainland and had him in there with Lenny Brice and Rafael Herrera. He couldn't get past those two either.But back to the gym with the bruddas.

Just before we were to wrap it up someone brought in a case of Primo beer. You know those guys over there have a drinking tolerance like the Indians-none..One drink and they get crazy.Suddenly they get this glow and a glint in the eye and they start talking weird.
"Hey brudda' you want to wrestle?"
I think to them "wrestle" meant groping your body. There's a lot of that stuff that goes on over there.
"Why don't we just go to the fights,"I said.
"We can't right now," said Kimo or maybe it was Duke."We're waiting for someone."
"Who?"
"A friend of ours.You'll get to know him."
Now I wanted to keep my distance from these guys.About a few minutes later this figure comes in wearing a sarong.A dark little creature with heavy make up. It was one of these Benny Boys.All of a sudden the bruddas' ran over to it and fell at it's feet.The Benny Boy held them in a spell.I ducked out the back without saying good by. I had wished I had gone to the North Shore with my friends.At least I could have stood on the shore and watched.

[chrisjs1985]

The Fighter From Philly

The first fight I ever saw in person is when my father took me to the Chicago Stadium. The main event was Joey Giardello and Randy Sandy.The main purpose though was that my father wanted me to meet my godfather who was the time keeper for the most of the big fights in Chicago,MIke Murphy.He was my godfather but this was the first time I can remember him.I was 10 years old. He was happy to see me and I guess I was happy to see him though this was the first time I can remember seeing him. I'll always remember the sound of that big Wurlitzer organ they had there.It was dominating. I remember that more than my godfather.

I don't recall too much about the fight.I thought it was kind of boring. Giardello won a split decision. I had to look some of this stuff up as i go along.The crowd was behind Giardello.Turned out this was the only time he fought in Chicago.When they talk about modern day Italian fighters the Italians,and fans in general, don't mention Giardello much. The pecking order is usually Marciano,Basilio,Pep,and then La Motta. I still say that movie Raging Bull made a star out of La Motta. He was sort of persona non grata becuae of what happened with him and Billy Fox although the Italians still held him in high regard because he was the first guy to beat Sugar Ray Robinson.

Joey Giardello never had any amateur fights.He also said that he taught himself how to box. Sometimes he trained and sometimes he loafed. He had over 130 fights but never got a shot at the title until Gene Fullmer opened the door in 1960.Giardello had had over 100 fights by then. The fight was out west in Bozeman ,Montana. The fight was scored a draw.I saw the fight on TV. I wanted Giardello to win but the judges I guess didn't like dagos from Philly invading their turf.

Giardello was 30 years old by then .He thought he'd never get another shot. GIardello got in a beef soon after that. They say he was involved in a riot in Philly and he went to jail.He didn't serve much time but New York revoked his license.He returned to fighting winning mostly unimpressive decisions. Ray Robinson was one of those decisions.

Dick Tiger was the middleweight champ.He had fought Giardello twice before, splitting a pair of decisions. Tiger was no spring chicken either and was looking for a soft touch for a defense. He gave Giardello the chance with Joey opting for 15 percent of the purse. He had only gone 15 rounds once and that was in the Fullmer fight. Giardello was the 3 to 1 underdog.But Joey trained hard and out boxed Tiger to win the championship.

Unfortunalely,most people remember Giardello from that movie ,The Hurricane,that portrayed him as a punch drunk champ,who in the movie got an ass kicking from Ruben"Hurricane" Carter. It was really a sh--ty movie and a sh--ty take on GIardello. In the real fight Carter looked sluggish.He didn't do enough to win. But that movie made it look like he gave Giardello a beating. Afterwards Giardello sued the producer of that flick and they settled out of court.BTW,even Carter said that Joey deserved the win.

GIardello was born in Brooklyn but when he got out of the Army he settled in Philly and stayed there. When Sylvester Stallone made his first Rocky movie it took hold of the public that they erected a statue of him on the steps of the art museum in Philadelphia. It's one of the city's biggest tourist attractions. Sounds like that Hurricane movie-all wind and smoke. But the city eventually got it right. They built a statue of a real Italian fighter who was a middleweight champion-and it wasn't Marvin Hagler.But now they should build one for Marvin too.


Joey Giardello

Nice write-up. I'm a big fan of Giardello. Visited his statue in South Philly in June. A vastly underrated great.

[dagosd2000]

Joey Giardello
[/quote]
Nice write-up. I'm a big fan of Giardello. Visited his statue in South Philly in June. A vastly underrated great.
[/quote]

Thanks.A great quote from Giardello,also shared by another paisan,Joey Maxim.

"I.loved going into the ring and box.I liked going into the ring to outsmart somebody.People think that guys have to be dumb to be fighters.I say you have to be smart to hang around a long time."



Joey Maxim

[dagosd2000]

Fading Footprints

If they were to have a vote here for San Diego's most famous ,or best athlete, I don't think Archie Moore would get much mention. Memories are short and references don't reach back that far. Maybe Ted Williams would get some x es marked in his box. But you'd have to put his name there because I don't think any of these X generations would stamp their "x" in Ted's box because they never heard of the guy. And Archie Moore? Who's he?

I'd guess Tony Gwynn would come out on top. I don't think there'd be much argument. Tony's a Hall Of Famer and so is Williams,but Ted's been dead for more than 20 tears and he played ball when most San Diegans were just a twinkle in daddy's eye.

A while back I saw a story on one of the local news channels about how there was this grassroots movement about the city buying Archie Moore's old house and turning it into a museum or some landmark.This interest started in Moore's neighborhood in Southeast San Diego with some of the old timers in what is left of San Diego's black community. There isn't a predominant black community in San Diego anymore. You probably guessed it-the Mexicans have taken over.But I don't haver a beef with that. But you can bet your last peso they ain't gonna sign any petitions to turn Archie's old place into some tourist attraction.

Ted Williams' old house, where he lived as a kid in North Park, is still there. It's just an old house that sits there as obscure as a 150 batting average. If Williams' old abode is lost to history Archie's digs is right alongside it.

If you want to see where Moore used to live it's now a hangout were you can rent for swinger parties.You can bet everybody knows about that in the ghetto.There's no more remnants of Moore's old training facility, that he named The Salt Mine, located in the the foothills of Ramona.The road that led out to his camp is named "Archie Moore Road." I wonder how many people drive by and wonder who Archie Moore was? His ABC club was in a little strip mall but that was razed years ago to help make room for a big industrial complex.

So for me what's left are mostly memories. I write on the forum of my brief encounters with Archie Moore. I hope I've piqued some interest. But since this is a boxing website that's about as far as it goes I guess.You won't hear about Archie Moore in San Diego unless you dig for it. The problem is you have to know who he is before you start digging.


OL' Arch


Archie's old place today. Even gave Thad some free advertising

[dagosd2000]

A Regular Guy

Just prior to Archie Moore's passing light heavyweight John "The Iceman" Scully was communicating with Moore mostly listening to The Mongoose philosophizing about his take on the world. I don't know how the word got out that those discussions had taken place inside Moore's Any Boy Can Club in Southeast San Diego,but things didn't add up. Now Moore died in 1998. Scully fought until 2001 however only ventured once inside a boxing ring west of the Mississippi .He fought in Las Vegas.WIth that info I saw some red flags.
One:Moore's ABC Club had been closed for around 20 years when Scully was conversing with him.Moore's training camp in Ramona had closed before that.
Two: Moore's boys club was JUST for boys-little boys. There were no amateur or pro fighters training there.

Moore had a hand working with some pro fighters like George Foreman when he fought Ali in Zaire but there was nothing close to that at the ABC.Sure,the kids learned how to box from Moore but his facility was mostly a moral training ground on how to be a good citizen and lead a clean life.

When Archie Moore was inducted into Rick Farris' West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame a few years back,Scully that day was the presenter of the award to Moore's daughter. After things broke up I approached Scully and asked him about his relationship with Moore. I didn't know him at all. He came across smartly.He told me that he never set foot in Moore's boys club. His communication with Moore was through emails.Scully felt honored that Moore would spend time unabashedly answering questions and giving advice homespun advice.

So that was cleared up.Really no big deal-just a misunderstanding.But you know,that's how Archie Moore was.He took time with everybody.There were no pretensions.Of course .there were times when he was full of himself, but underneath all that he was just a regular guy..


Archie Moore and his fighters

Archie Moore's gym for his grownup fighters

[dagosd2000]

Another Trainer,Another Outcome

I would liked to have seen Eddie Futch in George Foreman's corner, instead of Dick Saddler and Archie Moore, the night he fought Ali..It was Futch who masterminded game plans for Joe Frazier and Ken Norton,the first two fighters to have beaten Ali. I don't care what anyone says, Norton won the second and third times against "The Greatest", and Joe took the rematch hands down.

Of course the fans were behind Ali all the time.He was the champion of the underdog.He had the appeal,the charisma. What direction would boxing had taken if the judges would have dug down into their souls and scored those three fights honestly,and given Norton and Frazier their just dues? The Manila fight was Ali winning fair and square. I give credit to Futch for not letting Joe come out to "last" the 15th round.
"I was close to his wife and kids.I wanted Joe to enjoy the rest of his life with them still having vision in both eyes,"explained Futch.
Can't say the same thing about Angelo Dundee letting Ali come off his stool round after round to get blasted by Larry Hoimes. It wasn't until Herbert Muhammad ,sitting at ringside,who finally flashed the word to Dundee to call off the massacre to the Nation Of Islam's former poster child.

Futch had forgotten more about boxing than Saddler and Dundee put together.But I can figure Saddler and Dundee.I could never understand how Moore couldn't see that the way Foreman was preparing was just plain stupid. Having him hit the heavy bag with those methodical thuds.Letting it all hang out peddle to the metal from the opening bell. Did those guys really think that George would knockout out Ali in 2 rounds like all those other guys before? Frazier wasn't afraid of George,at least in the first fight,but all the rest(with maybe the exception of Peralta)were whipped before they climbed through the ropes.Ali was afraid but he didn't panic.

The Rumble In The Jungle was,as the fight wore on,an easy victory for Ali.If Eddie Futch had been the chief second things would have been different. Take your time George.Ali doesn't have those wheels anymore.Press him to the ropes.He wants to lean there anyway.Jab to the body.,You've got a good strong jab.Bring Ali's guard down,then Slug to the head.Same game plan as you had with Norton.Sure,the fight would have been pedestrian and gone 15,but you would have held onto your title.But no.You were big bad Gorge Foreman, who like you once were quoted saying wanted to "kill a man in the ring."Instead you flopped big time.

But go ahead George and blame your team,Saddler and Moore. They came up with a stupid strategy. But Ali was never stupid He knew what you were going to do and he was smart enough not to tell, anybody, including Angelo Dundee, on how he was going to sucker you in.(Having the ring ropes loosened the day before the fight.GENIUS!)He had you solved before you entered the ring.I wonder what Eddie Futch was thinking?


Eddie Futch

[dagosd2000]

The Big Turnaround

After George Foreman lost to Ali I figured he'd have a tough time dealing with the aftermath. He was this tough guy who was knocking out guys early, left and right. Most of them were wupped before they entered the ring. Foreman reminded me of another Sonny Listion.Liston was his role model. You would think that George would have taken a cue and not have set himself up for that "eventual" loss that would someday catch up with him.

The bully,the intimidator;always crashes down to earth when that upset happens.Liston,George.and later Mike Tyson would have to deal with it.Sonny never could get himself turned around. Tyson is still a loose cannon. George Foreman is one of the nicest guys on the face of the earth.

George tried to maintain that invincibility image by fighting five guys in Montreal on the same night. But then came along a slippery Jimmy Young who put George asea in Puerto Rico. That loss was Foreman's Rime Of The Ancient Mariner.He said he was contemplating suicide. His demons had caught up with him.He abandoned boxing. George decided that he needed help-spiritual help. He took the weight off his shoulders and put them in the hands of The Lord. A man who said he wanted to "Kill" a man in the ring was now trying to keep from killing himself.

At first I thought it wasn't going to work. How can someone change his nature? How could George concede that he wasn't the baddest man on the planet and now was walking in God's grace? It was like making that pact with the devil.What's the one wish you want, and you can have it, but you must be subservient to me?
"I want to be the toughest guy in the world."
But the devil is always a double crosser.Only salvation can make amends.George found God and it wasn't a put on. Ten years away from the ring he re won the heavyweight championship-absolutely amazing. He couldn't have done that alone.He was a changed man. Instead of mean nasty George,he was Uncle George who everybody was pulling for.

I told you about the time I saw George Foreman hawking his grills in the CostCo parking lot around ten years ago.He was wearing a big white chef's hat and was cooking up everything from hot dogs to Filet Mignons on his griddle.He was ear to ear smiles and had the crowd around him growing and going. He was selling those grills as fast as butter melting on a hot skillet.And those customers? Little old ladies mostly.I'm sure George had no thoughts about killing anyone ever again.


George Foreman today.You've probably read something about how Foreman was involved,accoeding to this woman,of keeping her as a sex slave when she was n minor. This was when he was fighting back in the 70's.If he ever needed The Lord he needs Him now.

[dagosd2000]

A Starry Night

I mentioned the other day about how i planned on going to the fights after working out with those bruddas in that gym in downtown Honolulu when they started breaking open a case of Primo beer and then arrived someone, they were all waiting for, walked in wearing a sarong but but was a dead giveaway for one of those boy butterflies.All of a sudden their interest shifted from the fights to what was underneath that sarong. I beat a path for the door and didn't say "aloha" and never came back.

But I did manage to take in the boxing matches later with the surf bums I was bumming around with from San Diego. I had to talk them into it because for one they weren't into boxing,and second, they thought we were all going to get rolled.But after smoking enough joints , drinking ample amounts of Primo beer,and dropping a tab of acid their anxieties diminished.I never had any qualms about going in the first place.

The city had just recently completed building a complex that served as a recreation complex. There were several buildings for concerts,conventions,exhibition ,and sporting events.They named the place The Honolulu International Center but everyone refereed to it as The HIC.There was an arena that provided seating for 8000, for mostly boxing.

I just wanted to go that's all. I didn't know who was fighting.I just wanted to say that I had gone to The HIC. Where we were staying in Honolulu was only a few blocks from The HIC. It was a hot balmy night and the streets were packed with people. As all the things dreams are made of were streaming through my system I felt I was inside a Salvador Dali painting. I remember getting to the ticket window and shoving a twenty dollar bill under the window. Me and my friends flowed upstairs to the bleachers.We could have kept on going to the moon if there hadn't been a roof on the place.

The card had already started when we got there.It was noisy and smoky and crowded and everything seemed like a dirty circus.But we didn't care.We didn't care about nothing:A guy came by selling beer and we drank three down like it was water.The fights were going on and everybody was yelling and I couldn't tell you who was fighting or who won and didn't care to know. I don't know what spurred me but I said to my friends that it was time to go so we left early and outside hailed a cab to Hotel Street where there's always a dirty circus performing day and night. We wound up in some dive looking for some female satisfaction which was all over the place.Time seemed to be racing but when we were told it was closing time and walked outside the sun was coming up from behind the harbor.

Our pockets were turned inside out so we had to stagger back to flophouse where we were staying. I don't remember too much about what we did that night except I could tell everybody that I had gone to the fights at The HIC.As far as rolling around with any women I don't remember. All I can say is I never got to see anything under a sarong,I guess. .


"Bobo" Olson.Born and raised in Honolulu. He was Hawaii's most famous fighter. He retired before they built The HIC.

[dagosd2000]

The Less You Bet The More You Lose When You Win

That's what Wyatt Earp used to say. "The less you bet the more you lose when you win." You see, Wyatt Earp wasn't really a lawman by trade. He only did that law stuff for a few years in Wichita;Dodge City;and lastly, Tombstone. He was never the head honcho-only a deputy. He did it to pick up a little extra cash,and besides, he liked to fight-fight with his fists instead of using his Colt. Oh,he wasn't afraid to shoot a man ,but why kill a misguided drunk when you could beat him unconscious with your fists and then lock him up in the slammer and let him sleep it off?

Wyatt Earp was never fond of doing much manual labor. His main interest in life was gambling.As a lawman e could shake down the local saloons in town and put the finger on the ladies of the night. Keno was his favorite sport. With his winnings he'd invest in his favorite gambling haunts and dens of ill repute.If there was a racetrack near by you could always see him at the para mutual windows.

Wyatt Earp also had a penchant for refereeing boxing matches.He did more reffing than drawing his pistol on Front Street.In fact Wyatt Earp only put one ornery critter in Boot Hill. That was some drunk cowboy hurrahin' the town on his horse when Wyatt brought him down with a shot from his six shooter(BTW:he never had that Buntline Special you see on that TV program starring Hugh O'Brian.It was a gift given to him by Ned Buntline well after Earp took off his star)

They estimate that Earp reffed around 100 fights in his day. When he lived in San Diego in the 1880's he was the third man in the ring in the area and across the border in Mexico.But it wasn't the sportsman in him that motivated this interest-it was his sporting life. By being a referee Earp could influence the outcome of a fight considering who he had put his money on.This happened one time in San Francisco when Bob Fitzsimmons fought Tom Sharkey in a title elimination bout for Jim Jeffries' crown.

Ruby Robert was a 3 to 1 favorite going in.Those odds suited Earp to a T.However,the crowd smelled a rat.The fight was held on a barge in San Francisco Bay. The rumors prior to the bout about the fix being in were flying around like hot lead at The OK Corral.

Before the fight the local sheriff patted down Wyatt and sure enough extracted a pistol from his vest pocket("I forget to leave it at home")Well, for 8 rounds Fitz had his way the the former sailor. He was bouncing him around like a buoy in the harbor.Then during the 8th frame Fitsimmons threw his trademark "solar Plexus punch" and had Sharkey on the canvas.Earp was quick on the draw and stepped in and raised Tom's limp arm.Earp declared Sharkey the winner from a low blow.

Of course everybody except Sharkey and Earp protested. There was a formal injunction. "Not enough conclusive evidence" ruled the judge. The decision stood.

There was a re match later.Earp for sure wasn't inside the ring for this one.Sharkey got KO'd, and Earp was at the Keno table plying his art.


Wyatt Earp

[dagosd2000]

The Best Seat In The House

Rick Farris called me up the other day to keep me abreast of his upcoming West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame banquet.(BTW:it's going to be in March)He filled me in on some of the inductees:Manny Pacquiao,Carlos Zarate,George Foreman,James Toney,Larry Merchant.This year the venue is the Biltmore Hotel in LA. Classy joint to say the least.

Rick always seats me at his table up front When I say "his table" it's comprised of some of Rick's old friends he's met along the way. Rick's backround,besides on the boxing end,has been with the film studios in Hollywood and Burbank. He still dabbles in it.He's been a lighting technician for over 30 years. You don't have to tell me how those starlets cherish those lighting techs when it comes to getting a "close up."

Anyway, I'm there at Rick's table with non boxing ilk and that suits me fine. What would I do seated with a bunch of Hall Of Fame boxers? I was never a fighter. Let that fraternity swap stories amongst themselves. Besides,these events provide a rare opportunity for these guys to get together and bring out the memories. Afterwards it's usually Rick,Dan Hanley ,myself,and the wives retiring to the lounge for some drinks and eats.

Last year I was sitting next to Tom Kelly's daughter.Tom was a mainstay broadcaster in the Southland for decades. He covered everything but his trademark was that he was the "Voice" of USC football. He also did a lot of boxing.His daughter told me that when her father was in the hospital battling cancer Carlos Palomino dropped by to give him a visit. She said that her dad was really touched by that gesture.

Next March I'll be anticipating to make some more acquaintances as usual.But I'll have my eye open on the fighters. Can't help but not miss them.


A few years back I was seated next to Roberto Duran's daughter ,Irichelle. She was once a fighter like her dad.Just looking at her I couldn't think of calling her "Hands Of Stane."

[dagosd2000]

The Town I Live In Is Lonely

You talk to those Chicano fighters from LA and they'll tell you how frustrating it was to fight ,let's say at the Olympic Auditorium against a Mexican national and have the crowd in the foreigner's corner. I mean these guys were the ,locals and the crowd is hoping some guy from across the border knocks their blocks off. You might think that maybe most of the aficianados in the arena may have been born in Mexico but wasn't the case. But even so,they're living in the good ol' USA;why not pull for the American?OK.Mexican/American.

Alberto Davila tried putting an "o" at the end of Albert(his birth name)but that was a futile gesture. When Bobby Chacon fought Ruben Olivares it was El Puas that was the hero. Oscar De La Hoya committed a sacrilege by beating Julio Cesar Chavez. I saw wanted posters of ODLH on lampposts in Tijuana. When Vicente Saldivar blew into town to fight the Chicano cholo Raul Rojas in front of s rip roaring crowd at the LA Memorial Coliseum it was Raul that they wanted to see get torn apart.

When Andy Ruiz,who was born in the Imperial Valley just across the line from Mexicali, won the title from Tony Joshua the Mexicans in Mexico wished that his pregnant mother would haver visited her sister in Mexicali the day she gave birth.Imagine a Mexican heavyweight champion of the world.?Move over Zapata.

Those East LA fellas' have a tough time talking about it.But they know why. They aren't real Mexicans in the eyes of their forefathers.Here's a good one.When I was coaching American football in Tijuana I had a kid that wanted to follow me to San Diego and play at the school I had relocated to,Point Loma High School..(I loved coaching in TJ but the pay stunk)Well,we got the kid over here on a foreign exchange program.It was a scam but it worked. But here's the kicker:the kid had to live in San Diego with a family.
"I don't want to live with a Chicano family,"he emphasized.
So he lived with a lily white family in big house that looked like Tara and hated their gringo cooking.I guess you can't have it both ways.


Albert(o) Davila today

The Town I Live In Is Lonely-Thee Midniters

During that era of the Chicano vs. the national this group was big in East LA. Doesn't get any more lowrider than this. BTW;just look at these guys' faces.You know that their mothers loved them very ,very much.

[dagosd2000]

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[dagosd2000]

A Buddy,Not A Brother

The other day I talked about how Rick Farris always locates me at his annual West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame event at his table that's comprised of some of his closest friends. Friends who he's known outside the world of boxing. Rick was a pro fighter in LA.We're about the same age.I have a few years on him but our frame of references are similar. I don't know if either Rick sensed it or just followed his instincts about seating me each year at his table with his buddies.In this sense the term "buddies" is apropos.

I've never wanted to mix much at a boxing banquet with fighters.One on one on a casual basis is fine enough.But I'd certainly feel like a fish out of water being squeezed between a mix of fighters at "their" table. George Foreman,Manny Pacquiao,and James Toney will be inducted in March.I wouldn't want to be shoulder to shoulder with them.Events like Rick's are not only appropriate with these fellas' but it gives them the chance to see each other again;catch up on things. It's not like they're next door neighbors.

I haven't had much close contact with fighters.For example,the great one I often write about,Archie Moore,was who they call in the vernacular "a casual acquaintance." I never wanted to put on an air and try to be something else. What I gleaned from The Mongoose was all that I merited. He was Archie Moore,one of the greatest fighters who ever lived. I was a school teacher who helped him after my shift were I was teaching and then on my way home lent a hand at his boys club. There's a chasm there. But that's the way it was.I wasn't in awe or should I have been. That's why I think the champ considered me , at least, unpretentious.

Ernie Pyle was probably the most liked war correspondent during World Way 2.In both theaters ,European and Pacific,he wrote in a way that touched not only the folks at home but the spirit of the guy in the trench.Yet the Pulitzer Prize winner was a writer,and the guys he wrote about were soldiers. Another chasm. When he was killed by a Japanese sniper on Okinawa the war department erected a memorial in his honor. Written were the word "Lost A Buddy." Those GI's fighting at the front were "Brothers." Pyle would have known that his inscription fit. He knew who he was and that reality formed an affinity with the troops.

A guy who writes about sports is a writer. A few years back a well known sports broadcaster was inducted into the Baseball Hall Of Fame at Cooperstown. Of course his profession landed him into one of those "other" categories.Nothing wrong about that. But he told a story of how Johnny Bench said to him,"Well you made the Hall."I can't think of this guy in the same breath with Babe Ruth.

I can write all I want about Archie Moore.As long as my pen doesn't run out of ink I'm still a writer.


Archie Moore

[dagosd2000]

The Apocalypse Began With The First Spoken Word

Ol' Jeff The Boilermaker said the toughest guy he ever fought was Freckled Bob Fitsimmons.Now I guess what I'm suppose to infer is what Ol' Jeff was implying is that if he had fought, in his prime Jack Johnson, he would have given The Galveston Giant a good wuppin'.

I must now interject with what that great prophet and star of the silver screen,Robert Mitchum, once said:

"When people talk half the time they're lying."

I disagree.I think it's more than half.



Looks like something out of a Charlie Chaplin movie


Bob Fitzsimmons

[dagosd2000]

The Day Of The Dead

It's a different deal in Mexico. Here it's called Halloween where the kids dress up and go out at night and get free candy. But living in San Diego I remember when that "free candy" bit was a big enticement for families across the border. Today,they talk about migrants coming up from Latin America and wherever trying to get to the U.S. to find work;I remember when caravans of cars loaded with parents bringing their kids across the line and then stopping in the swank neighborhoods , spilling out, walking up and down every street for hours and hours filling their trash bags full until they wound up with hernias.You'd hear residents say"Aren't they overdoing it? Who collects candy until midnight?"

They don't dress up and pass out candy in Mexico. They have their Day Of The Dead (Dia De Los Muertos).The whole thing which is recognized in Latin America started with them. It's usually celebrated on November 2nd. Here,Holloween is October 31st.BUt it's a time in Mexico when families go to the graveyard and leave things to entice the departed to come from wherever they are to enjoy what their loved ones have left them. It's not so much a solemn affair but more tongue in cheek.

My wife always sends money down to Jiquilpan to her sister in law, where all the family deceased are buried in the family plot. The gifts laid upon the graves are usually the same things that those dead enjoyed while they where mortals:a can of beer and a pack of cigarettes in my wife's case(all empty of course).In addition there are ample amounts of flowers an favorite food that everyone eats before leaving.

Out of respect I don't want to mention any specific names,but I'm sure,especially if you are a an aficianado,can think of all those dead Mexican fighters who were skirt chasers.How do you leave pussy on a grave?


Some kids in my wife's hometown celebrating The Day Of The Dead

[dagosd2000]

Underneath The Scab

When I think about how Hollywood depicts someone's life in one of their movies I always roll my eyes at the end. Their license for stretching the truth is constantly amazing to say the least. The bad part about it is that people buy into it. It's been going on for quite some time. I was a school teacher.I should know. Kids(and you can take this all the way back to the baby boomers)glean their knowledge more from the TV than from the text book. And looking at the text books today they are about as comprehensive as a Wikipedia article. So imagine if your frame of reference is from Warner Brothers?

I'll use boxing bio flicks as a quick example.

1.The Hurricane,the story of Ruben Carter-his celluloid fight with Joey Giardello prompted Joey to sue the producers. They settled with him out of court.
2.The Great white Hope,the story of Jack Johnson-all the characters in the story are made up except for Johnson.So how much credence are you to believe in James Earl Jones' portrayal?
3.Gentlemann Jim,the story of Jim Corbett-I wished I had a dollar for every time during the Jeffries fight "Gentleman" Jim yelled at Jack Johnson calling him a "n----r."
5.Cinderella Man,the story of Jim Braddock-Making Max Baer come off as a threatening with homicidal intentions was out of line.
6.Raging Bull,the story of Jake La Motta-Joey La Motta won a settlement from the producers for portraying him as a "little fag." That's what Robert De Niro called him in the movie.
7.Marciano,the story of Rocky Marciano-In ways Rocky was "rougher" on his wife than he was on his opponents.I think they voted him "Father Of The Year Once."Talk about a fix.
8.Somebody Up There Likes Me,the story of Rocky Graziano-Paul Newman's portrayal of Graziano is so punchy it's laughable.

But I guess if most people have any curiosity about knowing how these guys all they have to do is stream it on the tube than open up a book and read all those words.

The media is one sick puppy. It's a cancer that's on 24/7 with with thousands of channels and advertisements that shape our thinking into a bunch of dullards. It's criminal.

Oh.I forgot to mention the news.If you believe that stuff I've got a deal for you to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.


Rocky Marciano,the absentee husband and father.

[dagosd2000]

What Can You Say?

There's nothing you can do about it. Boxing will always be run by the promoters.There can be no leagues or something like the golfers have like the PGA where they have tournaments they can enter if qualified. But the promoters are killing off boxing when the sport is in dire need of staging quality fights that the public is demanding to see. The obvious match is the Crawford/Spence showdown that 's been lingering around but Top Rank and Golden Boy can't pull the trigger. People are giving up on the sport.How many years does Bob Arum have left in him? You've made your money.Want to take it to the grave?Give what's left of the fans what they want.

I see where Muhammad Ali's grandson is one of these UFC fighters.Cleressa Shields is turning to cage fighting.Even these retired athlets(ex Fighters and football players) are fighting in these oldie but goody matches.It's where the money is and the interest.I remember when you thought Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather would never fight each other. Finally,they did but it was too late. Both guys were a past their primes.If they had fought eight years earlier there could have been rematches and these promoters would have been rolling in dough.

Crawford hasn't fought this year.Spence hasn't fought since April. There's nothing to report on these sports shows like ESPN in regards to the latest fights.There's nothing worth mentioning. The major networks don't want boxing anymore. Even the PPV is losing money. This last Canelo /Triple G fight was an example. BoxRec's forum's posts and views are dwindling.If it wasn't for the blokes in jolly ol' England there wouldn't be much action. Sometimes I click on to the Brit/Irish blog.I can at least sense a pulse.

But that's the way the cookie crumbles. What can you say?


Tyson Fury.Do you really want to see him fight Wilder again?

[dagosd2000]

Zurdo

This should be a good fight:"Zurdo" Ramirez and Dmitri Bivol. Bivol was the guy who kinda shocked the world and Canelo Alvarez by decisively outpointing the super middleweight champ. To tell the truth I'm not too familiar with either boy. I've been hammering away on Youtube to glean what I can from each fighter.

I'll begin with Bivol. He's very strong like all those Russian hybrids. I've never seen a wimpy fighter from that neck of the woods. Between the Russian winters and eating raw bear meat I can see why the French under Napoleon and then the Germans with their best generals turned tail back to western Europe when they thought they had easy pickens'. But I always look for a way to beat a guy, and Bivol has some flaws. He doesn't move his feet well. His hand speed is average and he wings his punches. But the biggest red flag is that he carries his left by his side and when he brings it up to jab he paws with it.

"Zurdo"(Mexican nickname for southpaw) on the other hand has quicker hand speed. He moves better and he's more offensive minded than Bivol who likes to pick away and is more methodical. But I don't know if Ramirez can match him in the strength department.

Both boys have never lost. The fight is going to be in The United Arab Emirates,and this might work against Ramirez. (He better bring his own Mexican food)As far as quality opponents, each man has fought, I'm guessing, is about equal. They should have the fight in Tijuana for free on the TV. I'm pulling for Ramirez, but I respect Bivol.The Mexicans will behind their compadre for sure..If Ramirez wins then Canelo will have to decide if he wans to fight him.That would be bigger than when he fought Chavez junior. But Canelo's power at 175 pounds doesn't match up with those fellas'.

Who knows? This fight might lead to a bigger rivalry than Canelo and Triple G. It will be good for boxing-I hope.



I can get Ramirez at 3 to 1.I'll take a chance.

[dagosd2000]

A Jazz MUsician,A Rock Star,And A Prizefighter

Redd Foxx used to have a line in the early 50's if he didn't like you.

"I hope you daughter marries a jazz musician."

If he was still around he might say

"I hope you daughter marries a rock star."

But hare's a line he could use that would be relevant always.

"I hope your daughter marries a prizefighter."

Back in the 50's jazz musicians were always scufflin'. If someone is a rock star then he might be flush but then he'd be in the sack with every groupie following him back stage. But jazz musicians were never the most faithful cats around either.Both jazz musicians back then and rock stars today like to get f---ed up on a regular basis. Jazz musicians had a hard time supporting their habit.Rock Stars make more than enough scratch to get high.

Now how about those prizefighters? If they let booze and drugs into their lives they wash out fast. Musicians can go on playing.Sometimes it makes them sound better. But a fighter is like a fine tuned instrument. There's no room for anything that loosens their strings. Booze,drugs,women,not training-take your pick. If a fighter ain't right because he's let himself get unfocused then it'll show when he gets in the ring.Most fighters are always broke or wind up broke and then when they can't fight anymore and have bought everybody in the world a drink and are tapped out all their so called friends and lovers abandon them. They're lucky if they have a wife still by their side.

Mando Ramos was a good example. Jackie McCoy said that he had more natural talent than any fighter he ever had. But Mando wasn't grown up enough to rid his demons. The night he lost his title to Chango Carmona it was a miracle he even made it into the ring. The night before he was in the LA County drunk tank after overdosing on everything the bagman had in his satchel.

But then let's say your daughter marries a fighter like a Sugar Ray Robinson or a Muhammad Ali. As great as they were they got the dementia. That's a helluva' way to spend your golden years with your mate.

So if any of you single gals read the stuff on this forum take my advice. Marry some guy like your dear old dad(by the song of the same name)unless they hung him for being a serial killer.

Redd Foxx

A Beautiful song,beautifully song by a woman with the monkey on her back


Billie Holiday