George Foreman Revisited: Questions That Keep Me Up @ Night. )

[Tony1244]

We all probably agree that Foreman tired out against Jimmy Young and Ali.

1) Why did Foreman take shots from Holyfield better than he took shots from Ron Lyle? Did Lyle hit harder than Holyfield? Did Foreman take a better shot in the 1990s than he did in the 1970s? Strange if that's the case.

2) Foreman clearly shot his load in Zaire. Easy to see he was loading up on almost every shot. Understandable that anyone would be exhausted. But against Jimmy Young, he was conserving his punches and still got fatigued! The heat in Puerto Rico? Foreman is a Houston kid, I don't buy that. GF claims his trainer would barely let him drink water which sounds stupid as hell. Is that the reason?

3) Would GF have KO'd Young had he fought Jimmy Young the same way he fought Ali?

[oogiebe]

1-Lyle hits much harder than Holy
2-GF should've fought the same way he had all along. New team kina wrecked what he did best.
3-yes.

Hope that helps. Just one man's opinion.

[Tony1244]

1-Lyle hits much harder than Holy
2-GF should've fought the same way he had all along. New team kina wrecked what he did best.
3-yes.

Hope that helps. Just one man's opinion.

Thank you for that. I miss talking boxing as I've been suckered into this vaccine =AIDS and the trannys are coming to take us away maze.

I agree on #1. Lyle did hit harder. On 2 & 3, I think Foreman did abandon his very good jab in his first two losses. But he should have tried a blitz on Jimmy early in the fight.

[oogiebe]

1-Lyle hits much harder than Holy
2-GF should've fought the same way he had all along. New team kina wrecked what he did best.
3-yes.

Hope that helps. Just one man's opinion.

Thank you for that. I miss talking boxing as I've been suckered into this vaccine =AIDS and the trannys are coming to take us away maze.

I agree on #1. Lyle did hit harder. On 2 & 3, I think Foreman did abandon his very good jab in his first two losses. But he should have tried a blitz on Jimmy early in the fight.

You gotta get out of that cesspool OT politics and come back to the light side.

[Tony1244]

1-Lyle hits much harder than Holy
2-GF should've fought the same way he had all along. New team kina wrecked what he did best.
3-yes.

Hope that helps. Just one man's opinion.

Thank you for that. I miss talking boxing as I've been suckered into this vaccine =AIDS and the trannys are coming to take us away maze.

I agree on #1. Lyle did hit harder. On 2 & 3, I think Foreman did abandon his very good jab in his first two losses. But he should have tried a blitz on Jimmy early in the fight.

You gotta get out of that cesspool OT politics and come back to the light side.

[Tony1244]

1-Lyle hits much harder than Holy
2-GF should've fought the same way he had all along. New team kina wrecked what he did best.
3-yes.

Hope that helps. Just one man's opinion.

Thank you for that. I miss talking boxing as I've been suckered into this vaccine =AIDS and the trannys are coming to take us away maze.

I agree on #1. Lyle did hit harder. On 2 & 3, I think Foreman did abandon his very good jab in his first two losses. But he should have tried a blitz on Jimmy early in the fight.

You gotta get out of that cesspool OT politics and come back to the light side.

The facts that today's fighters fight so relatively seldom and unfortunately there is a lot more traffic in the political section than here, isn't helping. When Foreman took 1975 off, other than 3 days of exhibitions, it was considered a very long layoff. That layoff is nothing now.

[Ambling Alp II]

Hope you have been sleeping well!

Not sure what happened to Foreman against Young. He was just off for most of the fight. (Not tot take anything from Young, who fought a great fight).

Had he fought like he normally did in his prime, he probably would have taken Young out.

[Caractacus]

Dick Sadler and Archie Moore were training Foreman to fight Ali in Zaire in 1974,
but Archie Moore later said that Foreman made the mistake of taking advice of his brother
and to try and 'break" Ali's arms by punching and pounding them,
so Ali would be unable to defend himself..

[Tony1244]

Yes, I'm sleeping better now since Foreman regained the title from Moorer.

I read that Leon Spinks' strategy against Ali was to hit arms. Foreman was throwing haymakers he called his anywhere punch. He landed a couple good uppercuts early but stopped throwing that punch.

[bwu]

1. Agree that Lyle hit harder.

2. Read an interview with Foreman in the '80s. He said that in the wake of all the criticism from the Ali fight, he was trying to prove he had stamina, so he didn't push things early in the Young fight. He obviously overestimated how much he would have left in the tank at the end.

3. Yes. Interestingly, Young always said that Foreman would've won in the seventh if George had pressed him.

As a side note, a big part of the plan in the Spinks win was, in fact, Leon punching Ali's forearms early so that the champ would be arm weary in the late rounds.

[oogiebe]

1. Agree that Lyle hit harder.

2. Read an interview with Foreman in the '80s. He said that in the wake of all the criticism from the Ali fight, he was trying to prove he had stamina, so he didn't push things early in the Young fight. He obviously overestimated how much he would have left in the tank at the end.

3. Yes. Interestingly, Young always said that Foreman would've won in the seventh if George had pressed him.

As a side note, a big part of the plan in the Spinks win was, in fact, Leon punching Ali's forearms early so that the champ would be arm weary in the late rounds.

That arm punching was an old Marciano strategy and it worked well for him.

[Tony1244]

1. Agree that Lyle hit harder.

2. Read an interview with Foreman in the '80s. He said that in the wake of all the criticism from the Ali fight, he was trying to prove he had stamina, so he didn't push things early in the Young fight. He obviously overestimated how much he would have left in the tank at the end.

3. Yes. Interestingly, Young always said that Foreman would've won in the seventh if George had pressed him.

As a side note, a big part of the plan in the Spinks win was, in fact, Leon punching Ali's forearms early so that the champ would be arm weary in the late rounds.

It looked like he did press Young in the 7th and landed other good shots after the initial left hook. Jimmy deserves credit for holding on.

Very true, Oogiebe, Marciano was an excellent arm puncher.

[Caractacus]

what was the punch 'count" in Foreman vrs Young ?

[Caractacus]

I remember watching this LIVE on TV
Thursday Evening
March.17.1977 ( 2 months later I saw STAR WARS at the cinema)

[keithmoonhangover]

1-Lyle hits much harder than Holy
2-GF should've fought the same way he had all along. New team kina wrecked what he did best.
3-yes.

Hope that helps. Just one man's opinion.

Thank you for that. I miss talking boxing as I've been suckered into this vaccine =AIDS and the trannys are coming to take us away maze.

I agree on #1. Lyle did hit harder. On 2 & 3, I think Foreman did abandon his very good jab in his first two losses. But he should have tried a blitz on Jimmy early in the fight.

You gotta get out of that cesspool OT politics and come back to the light side.

Politics is so dirty it makes boxing look clean.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

We all probably agree that Foreman tired out against Jimmy Young and Ali.

1) Why did Foreman take shots from Holyfield better than he took shots from Ron Lyle? Did Lyle hit harder than Holyfield? Did Foreman take a better shot in the 1990s than he did in the 1970s? Strange if that's the case.

2) Foreman clearly shot his load in Zaire. Easy to see he was loading up on almost every shot. Understandable that anyone would be exhausted. But against Jimmy Young, he was conserving his punches and still got fatigued! The heat in Puerto Rico? Foreman is a Houston kid, I don't buy that. GF claims his trainer would barely let him drink water which sounds stupid as hell. Is that the reason?

3) Would GF have KO'd Young had he fought Jimmy Young the same way he fought Ali?

- Leading question that assumes you watched the fights and would expect supporting answers, but not by moi

Vs Ali, Foreman threw most of the big punches and was the aggressor, so was Ali tired from Rd 1? Same deal with Young who went on a 12 round run and still got beat up.

I'm reminded that George Plimpton sitting next Norman Mailer screamed out early in rd 1, "The fix is in" or something along those lines. My first impression years later before I ever read anything about the fight was Foreman was drugged, and many years later Foreman stated in By George that Sadler slipped him a Mickey in a glass of vile tasting water that he spit out after a couple of gulps before the fight...hmmmm.

1.)Lyle a much harder puncher than Field who's hvy KO% approx 30%. George made his elderly comeback as a savvy boxer puncher instead of just a bestial slugger that Sadler groomed him as by dehydrating him every bout, ie no water allowed 24 hrs before his fights.

2.) Foreman fired both Sadler and Archie Moore after Zaire though Moore convinced later he wasn't part of the drugging and was instrumental in the George comeback. Gil Clancy who never dehydrated him was his trainer until his first retirement. As mentioned Jimmy was well beat up as Jimmy admitted to.

The background was George was always the Headliner, now relegated by DKing to the undercard of a feather title bout in Puerto Rico, making only $80K after making millions. King told him he had to KO Young in order to get a crack at Ali who was already on record ducking George in big $$$ rematch fights. Like the Rocky movie where Burgess Merideth turns him loose in a chicken pen to chase down a chicken, that was Young. The fight was a close SD loss going into the 12th where the clever Young runs him into a KD that secures the UD. Typical King fight working his stable down the $ chain while reaping huge profits.

3.) George had Ali out on his feet pissing so much post fight blood that Ferdie and Herbert forbade him to ever fight George again. Jimmy who had recently clowned Ali to the delight of fight fans lost that very unpopular decision.. He didn't get beat up as bad as Ali, but somewhere Midrounds, 8th I think George had him out on his feet as well. No way Jimmy gonna lay on ropes as much as Ali when he could run.

Net result was George as an Olympic Hero in Mexico City at altitude where if he lacked stamina he'd have been exposed with scarcely a couple dozen Ama fights experience if that. He comes back to the US as a Headliner and now heavily booed though his first career as the class bully class sissies fear the most. The US was lurching into anti Vietnam War protests where college students suddenly jumped on the Ali bandwagon to support him during his exile from boxing with lucrative Campus speeches. George a product of Civil Rights programs designed to help kids out of poverty tried to be a poster boy for that progress, but Americans took an ugly turn with JFK, MLK, and RFK assassinations and cities rioting and burning everywhere.

George well past prime years having to lose 100 lbs to fight his way into shape and contention proved the vast wasted potential that boxing lost thanks to the nefarious DKing who never knew a fighter he couldn't ruin save for a handful.

[Ambling Alp II]

Foreman had Ali out on his feet? That simply did not happen.

[oogiebe]

Foreman had Ali out on his feet? That simply did not happen.

I didn't bother to respond to that one.

[gilgamesh]

1-Lyle hits much harder than Holy
2-GF should've fought the same way he had all along. New team kina wrecked what he did best.
3-yes.

Hope that helps. Just one man's opinion.

I'd agree that Lyle hits harder, but I think the fact that Foreman fought at a much more frenetic pace, and ran through his stamina much faster when he was younger probably didn't help either.

Also swinging wild as he often did in those days is gonna open you up to more shots you don't see coming.

So those factors along with Lyle hits harder contributed.

[gilgamesh]

We all probably agree that Foreman tired out against Jimmy Young and Ali.

1) Why did Foreman take shots from Holyfield better than he took shots from Ron Lyle? Did Lyle hit harder than Holyfield? Did Foreman take a better shot in the 1990s than he did in the 1970s? Strange if that's the case.

2) Foreman clearly shot his load in Zaire. Easy to see he was loading up on almost every shot. Understandable that anyone would be exhausted. But against Jimmy Young, he was conserving his punches and still got fatigued! The heat in Puerto Rico? Foreman is a Houston kid, I don't buy that. GF claims his trainer would barely let him drink water which sounds stupid as hell. Is that the reason?

3) Would GF have KO'd Young had he fought Jimmy Young the same way he fought Ali?

- Leading question that assumes you watched the fights and would expect supporting answers, but not by moi

Vs Ali, Foreman threw most of the big punches and was the aggressor, so was Ali tired from Rd 1? Same deal with Young who went on a 12 round run and still got beat up.

I'm reminded that George Plimpton sitting next Norman Mailer screamed out early in rd 1, "The fix is in" or something along those lines. My first impression years later before I ever read anything about the fight was Foreman was drugged, and many years later Foreman stated in By George that Sadler slipped him a Mickey in a glass of vile tasting water that he spit out after a couple of gulps before the fight...hmmmm.

1.)Lyle a much harder puncher than Field who's hvy KO% approx 30%. George made his elderly comeback as a savvy boxer puncher instead of just a bestial slugger that Sadler groomed him as by dehydrating him every bout, ie no water allowed 24 hrs before his fights.

2.) Foreman fired both Sadler and Archie Moore after Zaire though Moore convinced later he wasn't part of the drugging and was instrumental in the George comeback. Gil Clancy who never dehydrated him was his trainer until his first retirement. As mentioned Jimmy was well beat up as Jimmy admitted to.

The background was George was always the Headliner, now relegated by DKing to the undercard of a feather title bout in Puerto Rico, making only $80K after making millions. King told him he had to KO Young in order to get a crack at Ali who was already on record ducking George in big $$$ rematch fights. Like the Rocky movie where Burgess Merideth turns him loose in a chicken pen to chase down a chicken, that was Young. The fight was a close SD loss going into the 12th where the clever Young runs him into a KD that secures the UD. Typical King fight working his stable down the $ chain while reaping huge profits.

3.) George had Ali out on his feet pissing so much post fight blood that Ferdie and Herbert forbade him to ever fight George again. Jimmy who had recently clowned Ali to the delight of fight fans lost that very unpopular decision.. He didn't get beat up as bad as Ali, but somewhere Midrounds, 8th I think George had him out on his feet as well. No way Jimmy gonna lay on ropes as much as Ali when he could run.

Net result was George as an Olympic Hero in Mexico City at altitude where if he lacked stamina he'd have been exposed with scarcely a couple dozen Ama fights experience if that. He comes back to the US as a Headliner and now heavily booed though his first career as the class bully class sissies fear the most. The US was lurching into anti Vietnam War protests where college students suddenly jumped on the Ali bandwagon to support him during his exile from boxing with lucrative Campus speeches. George a product of Civil Rights programs designed to help kids out of poverty tried to be a poster boy for that progress, but Americans took an ugly turn with JFK, MLK, and RFK assassinations and cities rioting and burning everywhere.

George well past prime years having to lose 100 lbs to fight his way into shape and contention proved the vast wasted potential that boxing lost thanks to the nefarious DKing who never knew a fighter he couldn't ruin save for a handful.

Your opinions on the Foreman-Ali fight are completely unfounded.

George not only didn't have Ali out on his feet. He never even seemed to wobble him in the slightest.

[Teddy's Toupee]

We all probably agree that Foreman tired out against Jimmy Young and Ali.

1) Why did Foreman take shots from Holyfield better than he took shots from Ron Lyle? Did Lyle hit harder than Holyfield? Did Foreman take a better shot in the 1990s than he did in the 1970s? Strange if that's the case.

2) Foreman clearly shot his load in Zaire. Easy to see he was loading up on almost every shot. Understandable that anyone would be exhausted. But against Jimmy Young, he was conserving his punches and still got fatigued! The heat in Puerto Rico? Foreman is a Houston kid, I don't buy that. GF claims his trainer would barely let him drink water which sounds stupid as hell. Is that the reason?

3) Would GF have KO'd Young had he fought Jimmy Young the same way he fought Ali?

- Leading question that assumes you watched the fights and would expect supporting answers, but not by moi

Vs Ali, Foreman threw most of the big punches and was the aggressor, so was Ali tired from Rd 1? Same deal with Young who went on a 12 round run and still got beat up.

I'm reminded that George Plimpton sitting next Norman Mailer screamed out early in rd 1, "The fix is in" or something along those lines. My first impression years later before I ever read anything about the fight was Foreman was drugged, and many years later Foreman stated in By George that Sadler slipped him a Mickey in a glass of vile tasting water that he spit out after a couple of gulps before the fight...hmmmm.

1.)Lyle a much harder puncher than Field who's hvy KO% approx 30%. George made his elderly comeback as a savvy boxer puncher instead of just a bestial slugger that Sadler groomed him as by dehydrating him every bout, ie no water allowed 24 hrs before his fights.

2.) Foreman fired both Sadler and Archie Moore after Zaire though Moore convinced later he wasn't part of the drugging and was instrumental in the George comeback. Gil Clancy who never dehydrated him was his trainer until his first retirement. As mentioned Jimmy was well beat up as Jimmy admitted to.

The background was George was always the Headliner, now relegated by DKing to the undercard of a feather title bout in Puerto Rico, making only $80K after making millions. King told him he had to KO Young in order to get a crack at Ali who was already on record ducking George in big $$$ rematch fights. Like the Rocky movie where Burgess Merideth turns him loose in a chicken pen to chase down a chicken, that was Young. The fight was a close SD loss going into the 12th where the clever Young runs him into a KD that secures the UD. Typical King fight working his stable down the $ chain while reaping huge profits.

3.) George had Ali out on his feet pissing so much post fight blood that Ferdie and Herbert forbade him to ever fight George again. Jimmy who had recently clowned Ali to the delight of fight fans lost that very unpopular decision.. He didn't get beat up as bad as Ali, but somewhere Midrounds, 8th I think George had him out on his feet as well. No way Jimmy gonna lay on ropes as much as Ali when he could run.

Net result was George as an Olympic Hero in Mexico City at altitude where if he lacked stamina he'd have been exposed with scarcely a couple dozen Ama fights experience if that. He comes back to the US as a Headliner and now heavily booed though his first career as the class bully class sissies fear the most. The US was lurching into anti Vietnam War protests where college students suddenly jumped on the Ali bandwagon to support him during his exile from boxing with lucrative Campus speeches. George a product of Civil Rights programs designed to help kids out of poverty tried to be a poster boy for that progress, but Americans took an ugly turn with JFK, MLK, and RFK assassinations and cities rioting and burning everywhere.

George well past prime years having to lose 100 lbs to fight his way into shape and contention proved the vast wasted potential that boxing lost thanks to the nefarious DKing who never knew a fighter he couldn't ruin save for a handful.

Your opinions on the Foreman-Ali fight are completely unfounded.

George not only didn't have Ali out on his feet. He never even seemed to wobble him in the slightest.

His opinions on the fight are completely mental

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

We all probably agree that Foreman tired out against Jimmy Young and Ali.

1) Why did Foreman take shots from Holyfield better than he took shots from Ron Lyle? Did Lyle hit harder than Holyfield? Did Foreman take a better shot in the 1990s than he did in the 1970s? Strange if that's the case.

2) Foreman clearly shot his load in Zaire. Easy to see he was loading up on almost every shot. Understandable that anyone would be exhausted. But against Jimmy Young, he was conserving his punches and still got fatigued! The heat in Puerto Rico? Foreman is a Houston kid, I don't buy that. GF claims his trainer would barely let him drink water which sounds stupid as hell. Is that the reason?

3) Would GF have KO'd Young had he fought Jimmy Young the same way he fought Ali?

- Leading question that assumes you watched the fights and would expect supporting answers, but not by moi

Vs Ali, Foreman threw most of the big punches and was the aggressor, so was Ali tired from Rd 1? Same deal with Young who went on a 12 round run and still got beat up.

I'm reminded that George Plimpton sitting next Norman Mailer screamed out early in rd 1, "The fix is in" or something along those lines. My first impression years later before I ever read anything about the fight was Foreman was drugged, and many years later Foreman stated in By George that Sadler slipped him a Mickey in a glass of vile tasting water that he spit out after a couple of gulps before the fight...hmmmm.

1.)Lyle a much harder puncher than Field who's hvy KO% approx 30%. George made his elderly comeback as a savvy boxer puncher instead of just a bestial slugger that Sadler groomed him as by dehydrating him every bout, ie no water allowed 24 hrs before his fights.

2.) Foreman fired both Sadler and Archie Moore after Zaire though Moore convinced later he wasn't part of the drugging and was instrumental in the George comeback. Gil Clancy who never dehydrated him was his trainer until his first retirement. As mentioned Jimmy was well beat up as Jimmy admitted to.

The background was George was always the Headliner, now relegated by DKing to the undercard of a feather title bout in Puerto Rico, making only $80K after making millions. King told him he had to KO Young in order to get a crack at Ali who was already on record ducking George in big $$$ rematch fights. Like the Rocky movie where Burgess Merideth turns him loose in a chicken pen to chase down a chicken, that was Young. The fight was a close SD loss going into the 12th where the clever Young runs him into a KD that secures the UD. Typical King fight working his stable down the $ chain while reaping huge profits.

3.) George had Ali out on his feet pissing so much post fight blood that Ferdie and Herbert forbade him to ever fight George again. Jimmy who had recently clowned Ali to the delight of fight fans lost that very unpopular decision.. He didn't get beat up as bad as Ali, but somewhere Midrounds, 8th I think George had him out on his feet as well. No way Jimmy gonna lay on ropes as much as Ali when he could run.

Net result was George as an Olympic Hero in Mexico City at altitude where if he lacked stamina he'd have been exposed with scarcely a couple dozen Ama fights experience if that. He comes back to the US as a Headliner and now heavily booed though his first career as the class bully class sissies fear the most. The US was lurching into anti Vietnam War protests where college students suddenly jumped on the Ali bandwagon to support him during his exile from boxing with lucrative Campus speeches. George a product of Civil Rights programs designed to help kids out of poverty tried to be a poster boy for that progress, but Americans took an ugly turn with JFK, MLK, and RFK assassinations and cities rioting and burning everywhere.

George well past prime years having to lose 100 lbs to fight his way into shape and contention proved the vast wasted potential that boxing lost thanks to the nefarious DKing who never knew a fighter he couldn't ruin save for a handful.

Your opinions on the Foreman-Ali fight are completely unfounded.

George not only didn't have Ali out on his feet. He never even seemed to wobble him in the slightest.

- Thanks for proving my point, and I'll take a Ali who was an amateur magician used to tricking the public over your unstudied opinion.

Read or skipped through at least a dozen bios including Ali's farcical autobio that was so ridiculous he had to make a movie out of it that bombed. It was the 5th round with George thus far in the fight doing 80% of the fighting and Ali 100% of the grabbing.

Strange, nobody was saying Ali lacked stamina or fighting heart back then. George looped a couple Right Bombs around his ear and then a barrage of heavybag body shots while Ali was defenseless. Ali said all he was seeing flashes of light used "Out on My Feet" to explain himself.

I will also add ESPN had George on in the 80s replaying that fight with his commentary, and they showed he was up at 9sec as Clayton waved it off with maybe one sec left in the round. Ali collapsed in the ring about 10 sec later and down for a much longer count.

From the massive cut eye in his first sparring moment in Zaire to the month or more delay where George was not allowed to leave the country to get his eye taken care of, all surrounded by heavily armed troops restricting him to troop barracks while Ali frolicked with mass murderer Mugabi and DKing in his palace, everything about that bout stunk.

Ali ducked the 5mil Indonesian Black Oil Man Foreman rematch offer for 1.6mil vs Wepner in podunk Ohio who looped uncountable dozens of shots around Ali ears that had Ali the Great Champ crying to the ref most of the night. The same experienced Wepner that 3 fight novice Foreman demolished inside 3rds. Finally Ali finished Wepner off late in that sorry fight, but that's 2 fights in a row where he took hellacious damage.

He should've taken a mop up fight and retired. He'd likely have avoided most of his shocking disabilities, but because of the Vietnam War where he took a stand, he was propped up for years past his sell date as an Icon as his KO% plummets as ever more controversial fights accumulate and even Ali is starting to get booed.

[oogiebe]

LOL! Ali didn't 'collapse' in the ring. He said that chaos broke out in the ring and the only safe thing to do was sit down on the ring canvas, if memory serves. Sorry to say, but you're a lunatic.

[gilgamesh]

LOL! Ali didn't 'collapse' in the ring. He said that chaos broke out in the ring and the only safe thing to do was sit down on the ring canvas, if memory serves. Sorry to say, but you're a lunatic.

It's funny that his opinion on the fight seems to come from reading about it in books whereas my and probably everyone else's opinion comes from having watched the damn fight. In my case repeatedly.

Plus if anything Round 5 ends with Ali hurting Foreman. He tags Foreman repeatedly with solid right hands at the end of that round.

That's a moment of the fight where Foreman seems completely inept in my opinion because Ali just kinda keeps hitting him with the same combination over and over, and Foreman keeps leaving himself open to it.

[oogiebe]

LOL! Ali didn't 'collapse' in the ring. He said that chaos broke out in the ring and the only safe thing to do was sit down on the ring canvas, if memory serves. Sorry to say, but you're a lunatic.

It's funny that his opinion on the fight seems to come from reading about it in books whereas my and probably everyone else's opinion comes from having watched the damn fight. In my case repeatedly.

Plus if anything Round 5 ends with Ali hurting Foreman. He tags Foreman repeatedly with solid right hands at the end of that round.

That's a moment of the fight where Foreman seems completely inept in my opinion because Ali just kinda keeps hitting him with the same combination over and over, and Foreman keeps leaving himself open to it.

Every now and then I rewatch this fight and each time I'm amazed at how much Ali beat big George up from the start. Casuals talking about how Ali layed on the ropes taking punches without fighting back really need to watch and understand the beauty of Ali's amazing strategy and execution.