Could any Middleweight have K.Od Hagler?

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » 19 Aug 2006, 14:22

From any era,could any Middleweight have knocked the "Marvelous One"out?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 19 Aug 2006, 14:26

No way.

If Tommy Hearns, who had one of the hardest single shots in history could not budge an ageing & slowish Hagler, I doubt very much whether ANY middleweight could have knocked him down, much less KO him.

His chin must have been made from titanium.

The punches he took from Hearns & even more so, Mugabi, would have punched holes in concrete, but they didn't even make Hagler blink!

Awesome chin!!!!!

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » 19 Aug 2006, 14:39

I posted this thread because I have people saying he would have been K.Od against the likes of Ketchel,Burley,Julian Jackson(no shame in that).I disagreed with them.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 19 Aug 2006, 14:46

Taylor wrote:I posted this thread because I have people saying he would have been K.Od against the likes of Ketchel,Burley,Julian Jackson(no shame in that).I disagreed with them.

I can't understand how anybody could say that.

These people must not have watched the Hearns & Mugabi fights.

Those two fighters alone hit as hard as any fighter in the history of the MW division.

If he could take their punches without flinching, there is a high probability that he would have been able to withstand the others too.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Aug 2006, 15:34

Yeah Hagler has one hell of a chin, only a few in history that could beat him much less KO him.

Short list of guys who could beat him in my book...

Monzon but no KO
Burley KO maybe?
Bivins No Ko
Harold Johnson...to big? Did Johnson ever campagne in the Middle Division? I'm sure a Historian will set me straight here.

Go to a a catch weight of Super Middle and Archie Moore might get it done...I say might.

Most of these guys are big Middles to Light Heavies if my old brain is percolatin' today. So some will scream foul from the gitgo on my suggestions. Fact is anyone his own size would be pretty pressed to get that done.

Decagon may have one of the two only candidates I would bet on (if the odds were good) to get it done. Burley was a natural middle right? But Archie of course grew out of that division fairly early.

Was Hagler a pure middle? I don't recall him ever fighting in any other division...once again brain cells being stressed forgive me if I'm wrong.

theone · Post by **theone** » 19 Aug 2006, 15:58

Dec, why do you believe Burley has the best chance ko Hagler?
The fighter closest to Haglers level that Burley ko'd was Hollman Williams in the fourth of thier seven fights. The next best guy he ko'd was probably Jack Chase. I know both of these guys had good chin, but i dont believe theirs were better than Hagler. Your thoughts please.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Aug 2006, 17:19

Was Floyd Patterson someone who could have been a threat at middle for Hagler? Or was he way to young and inexperienced when he was that weight? Did he have the pop at that weight? I'm going to look through the archives on this one myself. I think he only fought MW as an amateur

You see I'm draggin really big guys down to Marvin's weight stretching for some possible scenarios here.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » 19 Aug 2006, 17:52

Syntax Error wrote:
Taylor wrote:I posted this thread because I have people saying he would have been K.Od against the likes of Ketchel,Burley,Julian Jackson(no shame in that).I disagreed with them.
I can't understand how anybody could say that.

These people must not have watched the Hearns & Mugabi fights.

Those two fighters alone hit as hard as any fighter in the history of the MW division.

If he could take there punches without flinching, there is a high probability that he would have been able to withstand the others too.

These people are fools.They argue with me that Ali suffered his first loss against Leon Spinks..I almost passed out laughing so hard,but they stick to their words.

Boxscribe · Post by **Boxscribe** » 19 Aug 2006, 18:00

Nice photo Decagon :TU:

Boxscribe · Post by **Boxscribe** » 19 Aug 2006, 18:17

Thanks for the boost!

I thought you may have been to the website (which also has the photo).

http://charleyburley.com

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 19 Aug 2006, 22:02

Hearns could have KO'd Hagler had Tommy not got caught himself - He shook Hagler up in the 2nd -

J. Jackson had the power to KO Hagler if he landed his shots - But I would suspect Hagler would land his first (he had the better defense and could handle pressure).....but if J. Jackson landed his big shot....Hagler would go.

Additionally Hearns didn't hit as hard (punch for punch) at 160 as he did at 147 and 154.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 19 Aug 2006, 22:39

No there never was and will never be a middleweight who could Ko Hagler.

And Burley would not have the best chance of doing it he had nowhere near enough power.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 19 Aug 2006, 22:57

After seeing Hagler get hit with Cyclone Harts best shots right on the chin and not even blinking, a couple after the bell even, its hard to imagine him getting stopped by any middle.
The great thing about Marvins chin was , he didnt have to depend entirely on it . He was a solid defensive fighter.
Some of histories greatest chins all of a sudden start to get a little weaker later in the career if the fighters best defense is a good beard.
It wasnt that way with Hagler, he had a great chin that was his second line of defense not his first.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 20 Aug 2006, 01:49

meade95 wrote:Hearns could have KO'd Hagler had Tommy not got caught himself - He shook Hagler up in the 2nd -

J. Jackson had the power to KO Hagler if he landed his shots - But I would suspect Hagler would land his first (he had the better defense and could handle pressure).....but if J. Jackson landed his big shot....Hagler would go.

Additionally Hearns didn't hit as hard (punch for punch) at 160 as he did at 147 and 154.

Hearns did shake Hagler, so did Mugabi, but none of them budged him.

Every fighter in the history of boxing has been shaken at some point in their careers.

No single shot could take out Hagler.

It would take a massive sustained barrage of unanswered punches to KO Marvin & even then that is debatable.

I seriously doubt whether Jackson could have KO'd Hagler, he's just not cute enough. All brawn & no brain.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 20 Aug 2006, 03:51

BoxBuzz wrote:Was Floyd Patterson someone who could have been a threat at middle for Hagler? Or was he way to young and inexperienced when he was that weight? Did he have the pop at that weight? I'm going to look through the archives on this one myself. I think he only fought MW as an amateur

You see I'm draggin really big guys down to Marvin's weight stretching for some possible scenarios here.

Floyd would have been very dangerous at MW.

He had an underrated punch at HW.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 20 Aug 2006, 05:47

Decagon wrote:I don't know about you, but I find the concept of Floyd Patterson unleashing his leaping left hook on middleweights to be fascinatingly dangerous.

That's what I was thinking.

He would have decapitated a good few MW's with that punch.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 20 Aug 2006, 06:23

Fellow novice prospect Dornell Wigfall dropped Hagler.

But that was in a street fight and Dornell Wigfall used a bottle.

Still couldn't KO Marvin though.

Marvin had a good defence and an iron chin and will to win. There are very few Middleweights in history I would pick to have a chance of beating Marvin and if they did beat Marvin I bet it would not be by KO.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 20 Aug 2006, 17:03

Taylor wrote:From any era,could any Middleweight have knocked the "Marvelous One"out?

NO

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Aug 2006, 03:09

Decagon wrote:
Grimm wrote:No there never was and will never be a middleweight who could Ko Hagler.

And Burley would not have the best chance of doing it he had nowhere near enough power.
Huh?!?!?!?!?! He knocked out Jersey Joe Walcott and Elmer Ray in the gym. Those were tough-as-hell heavyweights.

the jersey joe walcott story is bullshit. i want a source backing this up. a good one in detail too i might add.

eugene hart supposedly knocked tim witherspoon out cold in sparring

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Aug 2006, 03:10

floyd patterson was a heavyweight. he was too big for a middleweight. floyd at his peak was 195lb thats not small.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 21 Aug 2006, 06:32

I'm not even sure if any Heavy could have done it!!!!

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 21 Aug 2006, 07:00

Nah, no middleweight is knocking out Hagler. Hart, Mugabi and Hearns hit as hard as anyone at 160lbs and caught Hagler flush on several occasions, but the best they could do was stun him for a second or so. Didn't stagger, didn't fall. Infact, Hagler wasn't dropped in 114 amateur & professional fights, despite facing a load of vicious punchers. Not many can boast a statistic as impressive as that.

Someone might stop Hagler though, but it'd be on cuts. He was too good defensively with that street fighting instinct and will to win to be caught on the ropes and battered into defeat... Perhaps Monzon could land a lucky punch that splices open Hagler's skin. Wouldn't bet on it though. Monzon is the only middleweight I think could beat a peak Hagler.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 21 Aug 2006, 07:20

No MW in history would be able to KO Marvin Hagler, the guy simply had as good a chin P4P and was as toughas any fighter in history, and had a good defence. Although he did take a count against Roldan it was more of a slip than a knockdown.

blueberrymuffin · Post by **blueberrymuffin** » 21 Aug 2006, 11:40

meade95 wrote:Hearns could have KO'd Hagler had Tommy not got caught himself - He shook Hagler up in the 2nd -

J. Jackson had the power to KO Hagler if he landed his shots - But I would suspect Hagler would land his first (he had the better defense and could handle pressure).....but if J. Jackson landed his big shot....Hagler would go.

Additionally Hearns didn't hit as hard (punch for punch) at 160 as he did at 147 and 154.

The Jackson fight would be interesting. hate to dissapoint you but Hagler has been in with harder bangers than Julian. Hart back before Hagler was a contender, Roldan, and Hearns was sharper. Mugabi lumped up Hagler's face for the only time I ever saw but marvin was just about through anyways. No middleweight could have long stood up to prime Hagler.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Aug 2006, 12:40

Ok the bakery department is solidly in Hagler's camp.....

Could any Middleweight have K.Od Hagler?

Could any Middleweight have K.Od Hagler?

Hagler's chin

Re: Could any Middleweight have K.Od Hagler?