Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Whistling By The Graveyard

I often wonder what was going through Muhammad Ali's mind before his fight with Larry Holmes.After a two year layoff and knowing that his former sparring partner ,who he was now challenging for a world title, was beating his jab getting him ready for Joe Frazier in Manila-what was Ali thinking? There's a film clip of Ali in training camp looking at film of Holmes and concluding,"He doesn't move his head."

Ali's business manager told him he wanted to lay 50 grand down on him to whip Larry. Ali responded,"Don't do it.Something's wrong."

It must have been grueling for Ali to go with the charade.He always had pulled the rabbit out of the hat before ,but now he's telling his friend not to go to the betting window.Angelo Dundee said afterwards that he didn't sense anything was wrong with Muhammad before the fight.
"I saw my guy through rose colored glasses,"said Dundee."A trainer gets that way with his guy."
He does?

The Mayo Clinic gave Ali the green light. His trainers were wearing those rose colored glasses,and so was the boxing world. Although the bookies had Holmes down as the favorite it wasn't that weighty.After it was over it should have been a hundred to one.It was one of the greatest mismatches ever made.Wali Youngblood ,Ali's longtime trainer,said that after two rounds we knew Ali didn't have it."
Then why did they let him go out there for seven more rounds?

Ali's courage,his pride,his will not to go down sustained him.It was obvious it was a fight that should have never been made.Then why did they let him fight again?One of boxing's tragedies.


Muhammad Ali

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Hi Roger: By any chance, did you see either of the fights between David Love and Marcos Geraldo ?

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Hi Roger: By any chance, did you see either of the fights between David Love and Marcos Geraldo ?

I saw both fights.The crowd was behind Geraldo even though Love was from San Diego.The first fight was very close but Love was too fast.You' could say the same for the second fight.Geraldo was out boxed. Two fighters, who when focused, were very good.However, you could never predict.Love had the most natural talent. Geraldo was probably involved in some fixes.They both fought some big name guys.Both left their marks in San Diego.

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Who's The Fairest Of Them All?

I was thinking of who was the most popular fighter who ever fought in San Diego.It's not easy to come up with an answer unless you say the name Archie Moore. After Moore won the title from Joey Maxim in 1951 he only fought one more time in San Diego and that was a non title go against a name you'd have to look up in the record book and then forget the next day.

So you could say The Ol' Mongoose was the pride and joy of San Diego's boxing community and that's about as safe a bet ever laid down.But is there is anyone who would give Moore a run for his money?Doesn't have to be a homegrown product.Moore wasn't.Just a pug who was on the menu as often as ham and eggs and drew a big following.I'll list some of the guys I saw around town.

Before I get going the number one venue was the old Coliseum on 14th Street. Then there was the now demolished Lane Field,the home of the PCL Padres,that was located at the foot of Broadway.Many of the bigger fights were staged there.The El Cortez Hotel, that was the property of Chiang Kai Shek, showcased a few fights.So did some of the movie houses like the Spreckles Theater. And There was the roller rink on University Avenue that wasn't a bad place to watch a card. Some of the local parks like the one in National City would fill the bleachers with fans.There were also a couple of big wing dings at The San Diego Sports Arena.Now let's get to some of the fighters.But one more caveat.

San Diego was a limbo land in boxing.It was a place for the guy on the way up,and the pug on his way out.Once a fighter became frontpage news he never came back to San Diego,or if he cut his teeth somewhere else and now was a star, you could bet he'd circumvent San Diego when it came to stepping through the ring ropes.I'm thinking now of the big names who fought in the Southland and in Tijuana with San Diego being in that limbo land between.

The great bantam weight fighters of the 60's and 70's were absent. Oiivares,Castillo,Harrera,Pimentel,Martnez,Medel fought in San Diego's bookends but never in San Diego. When they could have stuck a fork in Bobby Chacon ,he made an appearance at The Coliseum but it was hard to watch.

Now you're probably waiting for me to embellish with Kenny Norton. Yeah, he started in San Diego but he never had a very enthusiastic following.After upsetting Ali at the Sports Arena he left town for the big time and th big money. Can't blame him.

Art Hafey,the Canadian,caught on and was knocking 'em out with that big left hook of his. But when he got jobbed in the rematch with Olivares at The Forum in LA he began going on the wane. He was experiencing nerve damage in his arms and after Little Red Lopez gave him a good licking the show was over.Ronnie Wilson,Art's felow Canadian born ,also had the town going for awhile, but then he started losing more than winning and getting cut up and he could never beat Mike Quarry losing three times to Jerry's brother.

There was A Chilean middleweight who blew into town,Renato Garcia,who looked like he might go a long way.He beat Marcos Geraldo and David Love twice to corner the market on the local 160 division.But then he fought up north against a 1974 version of Emile Griffith that snapped his unbeaten streak. He lost 18 more times after that.

If I had to come up with a fighter who Dan Diego fell in love with,and I would put as the biggest crowd favorite,was one of the biggest fighters to fit into a pair of Everlasts-Jack O'Halloran.When Big Jack would fight in town it was like the circus had arrived. It was San Diego's Mardi Gras time.When O'Halloran fought people would dress up in costumes and make enough noise to call out the cops. When Ken Norton and Happy Jack got together at The Coliseum it was the big guy who was getting the cheers and Norton the jeers.

So there you have it.My take on who was the most popular pug,after Archie Moore,who ever put on the gloves in San Diego.I told you once that San Diego is a burg that dances to a different drummer.


Archie Moore

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FYI

A great amount of the money the United States government was giving to Chang Kai Shek to fight Mao and his commie legions was spent on buying property in the U.S. like the El Cortez Hotel in San Diego.One of the best fights I ever saw was Terry Norris' close decision win over Gilbert Baptist at the El Cortez. While I was watching the fight I was thinking that China went Commie because Chang and his wife wanted to build the hotel so I could watch this fight. I figured it was a fair tradeoff.


Terry Norris

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Great stuff, Roger ! I came across an old interview with Denny Moyer that you'd like. It seems that during his near two year retirement from boxing he went up to 210 pounds. He said he drank a lot of beer at the tavern he purchased. When he began his comeback, it took him only a month and a half to get down to 168.

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Great stuff, Roger ! I came across an old interview with Denny Moyer that you'd like. It seems that during his near two year retirement from boxing he went up to 210 pounds. He said he drank a lot of beer at the tavern he purchased. When he began his comeback, it took him only a month and a half to get down to 168.

Thanks Goose. I had heard that Moyer went back to Portland and opened a bar. I also heard his wife wasn't happy with that move.As far as going down in weight from 210 to 168 in a month in a half sounds like he had some help with that.Also very unhealthy.

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A Cuban Catastrophe

Yesterday I posted on the "Boxing Update" category about the misinformation regarding the first fight with Vicente Saldivar and Baby Luis in 1962.BoxRec has it listed as a TKO loss for Saldivar when it actually resulted in a disqualification loss against the Mexican. I don't know when they'll get around to fixing it. If you want to see most of that fight it's on YouTube with Spanish commentary. But that's not my point now. I want to pass along what I know of maybe one of the biggest disappointments in boxing:the unfulfilled potential of Baby Luis.

Here's a guy who came over to the States from Castro's banned pro boxing philosophy along with such talented fighters like Jose Napoles,Sugar Ramos,and Jose Legra. Baby Luis had as much ability as those guys but always found a way to shoot himself in the foot.

The only film on him(that I'm aware of) is of the first Saldivar fight. Luis had that bouncy Cuban movement reminiscent of a Legra or Luis Rodriguez.Early in his fight with Saldivar he was in control dropping Vicente with a nice overhand right early in the going. As the fight was moving into the later rounds it looked like Saldivar was making up for lost ground.The fight ended suddenly when the referee DQ'd Saldivar claiming that he was guilty of headbutting. The two got together a short time later,this time Saldivar scoring the TKO.

Early in Luis' career he fought another young future expatriate,Jose Legra, dropping him twice winning an easy decision.

If you look at Luis' record it's nothing to put him on a Hall Of Fame ballot. Enrique Encinosa's book "Hard Leather" gave me some insights..Luis liked to party more than train for a fight and that was his undoing. Drugs,alcohol,and his activity in the drug underworld of organized crime finished him off. He was murdered in a drug deal that went sour in Miami.

You could write a tome about fighters that self destructed But in this day of mental stress and depression I think something like that would collect a lot of dust on the library shelf.


JOse Legra.He couldn't match Baby Luis punch for punch.

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Addendum

Enrique Encinosa in his book also tells of the time Ferdie Pacheco was tracking down Baby Luis in Mexico for a scheduled fight with Howard Winstone. After searching every bar and gym in the area Pacheco finally caught up with Luis. He looked like he'd been living in a cave.
"Where have you been?"asked Pacheco.
"A friend of mine gave me a bag of marijuana and I've been sitting on a hill trying to find the meaning of life."
"So what's the meaning of life?"asked Ferdie.
"I don't know ," answered Baby."I ran out of marijuana."

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Addendum

Enrique Encinosa in his book also tells of the time Ferdie Pacheco was tracking down Baby Luis in Mexico for a scheduled fight with Howard Winstone. After searching every bar and gym in the area Pacheco finally caught up with Luis. He looked like he'd been living in a cave.
"Where have you been?"asked Pacheco.
"A friend of mine gave me a bag of marijuana and I've been sitting on a hill trying to find the meaning of life."
"So what's the meaning of life?"asked Ferdie.
"I don't know ," answered Baby."I ran out of marijuana."

Rog, I saw his fight with Winstone on youtube (don't know if it's still there) a while back, and felt it was a brilliant bout. One of the finest exhibitions of pure boxing I had seen from both combatants. A shame about Luis. I didn't know that was how he ended up in a drug deal gone bad.

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Addendum

Enrique Encinosa in his book also tells of the time Ferdie Pacheco was tracking down Baby Luis in Mexico for a scheduled fight with Howard Winstone. After searching every bar and gym in the area Pacheco finally caught up with Luis. He looked like he'd been living in a cave.
"Where have you been?"asked Pacheco.
"A friend of mine gave me a bag of marijuana and I've been sitting on a hill trying to find the meaning of life."
"So what's the meaning of life?"asked Ferdie.
"I don't know ," answered Baby."I ran out of marijuana."

Rog, I saw his fight with Winstone on youtube (don't know if it's still there) a while back, and felt it was a brilliant bout. One of the finest exhibitions of pure boxing I had seen from both combatants. A shame about Luis. I didn't know that was how he ended up in a drug deal gone bad.

Dan
You're right about the fight being on YouTube. And you're right about it being a brilliant exhibition of ring generalship. You just don't see fighters today that possess that quality of ability. Luis was as good as his countrymen Napoles,Legra,and Sugar Ramos who came over around the same time.Too bad he didn't have the self assuredness between his ears.

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The Confidence Breaker

I once heard Denny Moyer say that after losing to Luis Rodriguez that the loss shook his confidence. He alluded that he was in over his head. He couldn't see the punches coming,and he was befuddled about how to attack the Cuban. It was the first time that Moyer was stopped in a fight.

Moyer prior had been in there with Emile Griffitth,Tony DeMarco,Ralph Dupas,Joey Archer,Benny Paret,Joey Giambra,Johnny Saxton, Gaspar Ortega,and Sugar Ray Robinson to name a carload,and it was El Feo that cracked the trust in himself(BTW:what a great list of opponents in those days.I couldn't imagine Floyd Mayweather Jr. coming out unscathed fighting that crew)

The fight is on YouTube.Moyer couldn't muster anything to offset Rodriguez's offense.I remember seeing Rodriguez train here in San Diego for his fight with Rafa Gutierrez,the winner to get a shot at Benvenuti for the middleweight championship.Rodriguez had a nasty way about him with his preparations. Angelo Dundee had arrived before the fight but it was Rodriguez who was running the show.Dundee didn't seem to care.I think that was his his forte as a trainer-he didn't butt in and want to impose some sort of reinventing the wheel.Hell,Luis Rodriguez knew how to fight by then!

Anyway,I often thought about Moyer and his aside about fighting Rodriguez. I guess that happens a lot in boxing,that fight that brings one down to earth.Once they lose the spark it's never the same again.


Luis Rodriguez

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Luis Rodriguez stops Denny Moyer

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Mama's Boy

No one could have beaten him that night.Oh,there had been upsets before:Braddock clipping Baer's wings.Clay shocking the world against Liston.But by now you know what I'm leading up to.

Sure,you might say that Mike Tyson didn't train with those "mean intentions" Cus D'Amato told him all about. But it was a time when no one thought Mike Tyson would ever lose a fight.,or at least break Marciano's win streak.Holmes had run out of gas at the end against Spinks. But Iron Mike? He was a one man wrecking crew.Oh,sometimes he'd looked like he couldn't get out of 1st gear like he did against Tucker and The Bone Crusher,but there was never any doubt.Those guys couldn't push him.

When Don King signed his cash cow to fight Buster Douglas it was such a yawner that they put the fight in Japan and on free TV. Buster was on a six fight win streak,but he wasn't wasn't turning any heads.He could hang his hat on putting Greg Page,Trevor Berbick,and Oliver McCall in the loss column.But Johnny Carson wasn't giving Buster any thought of asking him to sit in the guest chair.

The rap against Buster was that he was an uninspired lug. His dad was a fighter and had served his country yet none of dad's fire seemed to have lit a flame under his son's ass. But I think Buster's watershed moment was when his mother passed away while he was training for the fight.Most thought that he'd cancel out,or at least her passing would upset him to the point of him just showing up and collecting his check after Tyson punched his lights out.You all remember 42 to 1.

But I never saw a heavyweight,any heavyweight,even the past great ones,and that included Ali when he had everything that could have beaten Buster Douglas that night in the kingdom of the Rising Sun. Buster was the sun that day.He lit up the world which included Mike Tyson in it.

Buster was a big man-6 foot 3,light on his feet,snapping jabs,hooks,and crosses,working,working ,working.He wasn't a bit in awe of scary Mike Tyson. As the fight progressed Don King it was making Don King want to go to the bathroom.

In the 9th round Tyson unloaded a left hook and Bester went down hard.Don King's bladder tightened,but Buster got up just in time.But now the reality had sunk in. Tyson would follow up and Don King could sleep on his flight back to The States.

But Mike had shot his load.In the 10th frame Buster quickly put Mike in la la land.The coup de grace was Buster switching to southpaw and finishing off Tyson with a Straight left hand. (Can you believe the judges had score the fight even up to that point?)

Buster in his robe said he was in a "zone" . Pushy Larry Merchant asked Buster about if his mother had anything to to with it. His corner stepped in quick "Be careful Larry.",they warned.

When it was all said and done Buster divulged that he had cleared 600 dollars for his effort.The irony was that he was OK with that.

But now instead of Tyson fighting Holyfield for all the marbles it would be Douglas putting his title on the line. Douglas put on 15 pounds of flab to fight Holyfield. But he also was guaranteed over 24 million dollars .Just think of how he would have spent all that money on his mom.


Buster Douglas.While his mother was succumbing to her stroke she told her son to go out and win that title. I was so happy for him.

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Georgia On My Mind

I have a son in law who was born in Georgia and lives there with my daughter. They came out to Arizona last week to attend the graduation of my grandson from Arizona State U. We had a big family turnout and after the ceremony we all went out to eat at a fancy restaurant. My son in law is a big sports buff and he can talk up a storm about just about anything that rings true with the jocks.He was seated next to me so I thought I'd test him about a fighter from the Peach State.
"You like boxing?"I lead off with.
"I follow it,"he countered.
"Ever hear of a fighter from Georgia named Young Stribling?"
"No, when did he fight?"
"Back in the 1930's."
"Never heard of him."
"He fought Max Schmeling for the heavyweight championship."
"Did he win?"
"No.He lost."
"What ever happened to him?"
"He died in a motorcycle accident .He was only 28."
"Never heard of him."
"If he hadn't have died he would have the record of most knockouts by a fighter. He finished with 135."
"Who holds the record?"
"Archie Moore."
"Never heard of him."
"He lived i San Diego."
"Who did you say this guy fought for the championship?"
"Max Schmeling."
This time he didn't let me know that he had never heard of him either. That seemed about as far as the discussion went about Young Stribling,Max Schmeling,Archie Moore,and knockout records.There was dead air.
"By the way,"I said changing the subject."Do you think Georgia is going to win the national championship in football?"
"Let me tell you all about that,"he said nudging his chair closer.
I listened to what he had to say not commenting about anything.


Max Schmeling

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Hey Paisan

Man! What a game today. If you had money on France or you are like my neighbor from Brazil you're probably pissed,but you got to admit that was one hell of a game.

They always yack about who's better:Messi or Ronaldo? But I've always thought Messi was the better man. Ronaldo is good but he's kind of a prima donna and in love with himself. You touch him and he rolls around on the ground like he's been hit by a truck.And after that loss the other day he was crying. That ain't in Messi's makeup.After today's game he was congratulating his teammates and had a wide smile on his face.Ok.I'm from the colonies and I feel I don't know that much about soccer but I like Messi more than all these other guys.I know he's getting old and he's past his prime but he's my guy. Besides,he's a paisan.

Yeah.Yeah.I know he was born in Argentina but Argentina is like the U.S.: second generation foreigners from Europe who came to Argentina and thought the U.S. had the right idea to make a country work and tried to kill all the Indians.Messi's lineage is Italian and so is mine so when an Italian does something good then all the dagos are one.Forget where they're living. Besides, his mother's ancestors are from Marche in Italy and so were my mother's.So I figure me and Lionel are related.Maybe I'm his uncle.

And I get sentimental that he and his wife knew each other since they were kids. He's OK.

And for you Canelo,if you're still thinking of kicking his ass because you thought he was stepping on the Mexican flag on purpose,you better watch your step. I don't even think in France or Brazil they'd take to kindly to it.




Messi in years past with his childhood sweetheart.LIonel Messi.He might be short but he's heads and shoulders above the others.

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The Mongoose And The Cobra

Toughest Career? Ok.I'll bite,but I'll stay over on my side of the forum. Like they do in horse racing,I'll couple my entries:1 and 1A. Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore.Hard combo to beat. Doesn't matter which one is which. Both fighters,Charles over a hundred fights,Moore double that.Both eventually earned world titles.But it was no walk in the park for either guy.

Both had to struggle in that unofficial category of that Black Murderers Row contingent. Most of those fellas never got the opportunity to break out of it not to mention fight for a championship.While Zale,LaMotta,Cerdan,Conn,and Graziano became household names and the scribes filled their rags with their life experiences,the managers of these black fighters flippantly shuffled their fighters round like a deck of marked cards. Only chump change could be eked out from what they put on the line inside the ring.

However,it was Moore and Charles who got out of Dodge.They went from black to white.While they left their pals behind fighting each other for nickels and dimes Moore and Charles made dollars. Moore had to cut Doc Kearns in on the deal for a lifetime. Charles caught the eye of crafty Pittsburg guru Jack Mintz who saw in Charles another Robinson who could take him out of the fish bowl and into the ocean. For both Mintz and Kearns it was more in their wallets for their charges to fight Marciano and Maxim than to square off with the Bookers and the Burleys over and over again in that underground milieu.

It's a shame by the time Moore and Charles broke into the big time they had left a lot of good years behind them.But then I think of those black fighters that got lost in the shuffle. But to get back to the subject:they had tough careers too;maybe tougher because they never got their shot.


Ezzard Charles

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Just The Stats Ma'am Just The Stats

Talk about a tough career.

Sam Langford

254 bouts(178 wins,30 losses,38 draws @ ND's)
126 KO's
Stopped 8 times
1998 rounds
23 years active
Fought Harry Wills 23 times
Fought Sam MvVey 15 times
Fought Joe Jeanette 14 time
Fought blind in one eye after 1917
Fought Joe Gans,Joe walcott,Jack Blackburn,Jack Johnson,Stanley Ketchel,Tiger Flowers,Fred Fulton(who blinded him ),
Fought heavyweights who usually outweighed him by 20 or 30 pounds and had a height advantage of around 6 inches(Fulton was 6 foot 7 compared to Sam's 5 foot 7)

Whew

The great Sam Langford

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Really?

If you read Jack Dempsey's story ,told to Bob Considine who put it down on paper in 1960, Dempsey won't let you forget that the only man he feared to face in the ring was Sam Langford. When Dempsey was scuffling in the beginning in the Northwest looking for a fight and a meal his manager John Reisler said he could get him a fight with Langford.
"No way I'm going to fight him.He's too good for me.I can't beat him,"carped Jack
After Dempsey won the title Jack said Langford came to him hat in hand and wanted a shot at the title.
"No thanks Sam.I want something easier."
I"ve never bought any of that. Why?

Well it was a day that the color line was etched in the ground like the San Andreas Fault for most of the top echelon white fighters.Dempsey fought one black fighter,a fella who called himself The Boston Bearcat, who Dempsey dumped on the seat of his pants in one round in the boondocks of Ogden,Utah when Jack was half starving to death. But that was it as far as crossing that color line.

Then when Doc Kearns was cherry picking opponents for Dempsey after he won the championship,and prior to that with loading his mitts, he made sure that Harry Wills was on Jack's pay no mind list. Oh,Jack would tell you that they had signed a deal but that Harry some money up front and that he got stiffed. So down the road it was Gene Tunney who stiffed him, but inside the ring.

Dempsey lost his fighting ,license in New York because of that beef but he that tag of maybe he was afraid of Wills and that's why he really just ducked him hung around his neck like an Albatross When Joe Louis and Ray Robinson started breaking down the black boxing barriers,at least by winning world titles, colored fighters remembered how that icon of the heavyweight division of the Roaring 20's never put his title on the line against a black fighter.

So Dempsey thought he'd make up for it by saying he was afraid of Sam Langford.I wonder if Dempsey would have had his knees shaking against Joe Louis?

Jack Dempsey

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It Didn't Come Out The Way They Wanted It

That Fight Of The Century when Ali came back against Joe Frazier;that fight was going to set the boxing world back on its feet again. Ali was to come out dazzlin' and doin' his shuffle and rainin' punches on Smokin' Joe's head.Floatin' and sdtingin' again like old times.But insteasd Ali just looked old period. Ali was a damp firecracker that never went off;stale as poorhouse cake as Hemingway would say.Smokin' Joe lived up to his end of the bargain,but Ali disappointed big time. And thus The Fight Of The Century left people wondering.Was this the end of Muhammad Ali?

The trio of announcers they picked for the fight also flopped.Don Dunphy, who was an excellent blow by blow caller on the radio, never was much when he had to call it on the tube.He could literally describe the action on the radio but on the TV broadcast his delivery was hesitant and off the mark. For some reason they brought in Archie Moore,perhsps for some boxing expertise, but he never could get a complete sentence out of his mouth. Then there was Burt Lancaster, one of the biggest hams in Hollywood. If he was there to add the dramatic(and man did he ever try)he wanted to stand atop Mount Sinai pontificating when actually sounded like he was stuttering from Blueberry Hill.

Ali looked horrible. He had lost his legs and that WAS Ali. Once those pins go they never get them back. But maybe Ali was sick?That's what Burt and Don were alluding.(Moore was still trying to put a noun and a verb together) Would this be the end of Ali? His last fight? That was really frightening to think of.Moore still couldn't warrant a period at the end o sentence.

Deep down inside the people who knew knew that Ali would never be the same again. So how do you fix that? You give him the close decisions and even the ones that weren't so close.The biggest lie is the one everyone believes.Evreryone believed Ali still had it.

But OK now you say "What about Foreman?" I never said Ali lost his guile.In a way he had to rely on his wits more than ever now. As for Foreman? He fought the dumbest fight you could imagine. Dick Saddler asked Archie Moore to help him with training Foreman. Moore was still trying to form a subject with a predicate.


Muhamad Ali

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The Benecia Boy

The ATG with the weakest resume? J.C. Chavez? Aaron Pryor? You guys can do better than that.I've got the guy who wins (or loses) hands down. I could never understand back in the day why they made such a big fuss about him. I attribute a lot of the hype to Nat Fleischer and his "Bible Of Boxing."

Fleischer always leaned towards those old time fighters because he claimed to have seen them all so he felt he had you at a disadvantage.When Fleischer formed Ring Magazine's Boxing Hall Of Fame in 1954 this guy was a first ballot inductee.If The Ring was boxing's bible,Nat Fleischer was its Saul.To rub salt into the wound this fighter also got voted into the IBHOF in the "Pioneer" category.

HIs name(should be on the tip of your tongue by now ) is John C. Heenan,called by the public "the Benecia Boy." He was a bare knuckle heavyweight.He had three fights. His record stands(or should I say stoops) at zero wins,two losses,and a draw.The draw,Heenan's high water mark, was against the English champ ,Tom Sayers ,in 1860 for the British title. The bout lasted 42 rounds before everyone wanted to go home and sit by the fire. Heenan fought John Morissey,the American champ,in 1858 but broke his hand and was thoroughly trounced.The other loss was against Tom King back in jolly 'ol England. King trimmed the Yank in 39 minutes. After that rumble The Benecia Boy called it a career.

Now if a fighter makes it into the two prestigious halls of fames it wouldn't be a stretch to call him an ATG. But I'll just call him a NGATG(No Good All Time Great)

.

[dagosd2000]

Oxymoron

Weakest resume for an ATG is like watching the Miss Universe contest and picking out the ugliest contestant. What would motivate someone to do that?Like picking gnat s--t out of a pepper jar. I saw on the thread Chavez,Pryor,Roy Jones,and Marciano mentioned as NOT being ATG's.

So let's assume Ali,Ray Robinson,Henry Armstrong,Sam Langford,Archie Moore,Ezzard Charles,and Joe Louis are ATG's for starters(I'm sure there's someone out there that would disagree with some of these guys)But if you think they qualify as ATG's which one has the "weakest resume"? Oh,but if you're OK with these guys then which one has the "weakest resume'? While you're at it I've got a cjarof pepper for you.


Joe Louis.Let's sit around and find out what's wrong with him.BTW:Abe Lincoln let his kids run wild around the house.

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The Light Of A Champion

I met Gilbert Baptist while I was teaching school at Juvenile Hall. He was a probation officer at the time. He was also getting Terry Norris ready to fight Ray Leonard when Ray was making his first comeback.. Gilbert and Norris had gone back aways.They had fought twice before,Norris winning two decisions.

After my stint at Juvenile Hall I began coaching football and teaching at Point Loma High School.I had the what they called the "in school suspension class."It was inside the old metal shop room,All the windows were blacked out.It was for the kids that were acting up in class so the teachers would send them to the vice principal's office and then he'd forward them to me. I was supposed to keep them on task for the rest of the day doing their assignments that their teachers sent with them. They weren't supposed to talk. There was nothing in the room like books or any other resources. I had a desk and a walkie talkie with me. I let the kids talk and it got to the point that there were some kids that wanted to get kicked out of class so they could be with me.The kids were mostly comprised of the bussed in kids from the ghetto.You might think that wasn't the right thing to do,letting them talk, but the way they had it set up wasn't going to work so I let them talk.But it was an interaction with me and they felt comfortable with letting down their hair with someone they could confide with.

Back to Gilbert Baptist. One day he came into my class looking for a kid he had on his probation list.He had his little son with him,Gilbert Jr. I called him "Little Champ." Gilbert stepped outside with the kid he was looking for and then came back to the old metal shop room and pulled up a chair by my desk.
"How's Norris' training coming along?"I asked.
"He's doing fine,"he answered.
"You think he'll beat Leonard?"
"He'll beat him real good. We're sparring tonight up at Spud Murphy's Gym .You ought to come up and watch."

At that time Gilbert was a club fighter,a promoter's fighter. He'd take fights on short notice,anything to stay alive.. Later, he would be a last minute fill in for Lamar Parks who was to fight Gerald McClelland for the Middleweight Title. McClelland stopped him in one round.The final time Gilbert went down he broke his foot.It was his last fight.

The last I saw of Gilbert was at the high school.He was out in the lunch court.He was again with his son. I had the supervision.
"How you doing Gilbert?"I asked.
I was always happy to see him.
"I'm looking for another kid,"he said."You know I'm ready to give this job up and get into the ministry."
"Sound interesting."
"I think I can do more for kids by being a man of the cloth."
"Sounds like a good thing."
GIlbert then put his arm around his son.
"I liked boxing. I could say that I was the North American Light Middleweight Champion.Now it's time to move on and do the Lord's work."."


The Helping Hand Of God Church out on Imperial Avenue in East San Diego. James "The Heat Kinchen" is a minister there. Gilbert Baptist is a frequent visitor.

[dagosd2000]

Archie's Gals

Sometimes Archie Moore would refer to boxing as "My Lady". He loved fighting that much. He also loved music,especially jazz. His "Lady" of song was Ella Fitzgerald,a genius who neve knew it

[dagosd2000]

From Blows To Bullseyes

Before it was Champs the bar was named O'Brians.Then Burke Emery and his girlfriend Shirley went in and bought the place when the owner had had enough of it. Burke was working behind the bar at the time.He was the day man and when his shift was over he'd move around to the other side of the bar.He enjoyed himself thoroughly.

I'm not sure how Burke wound up in San Diego.Someone told me that the promoters in Los Angeles,Aileen Eaton and George Parnassus,needed a halfway spot between LA and Tijuana as sort of a proving ground for fighters on their way up the ladder or when they began missing a rung dropping to the floor.

Burke ended his career as a fighter in his native Canada winning the Canadian light heavyweight title and holding on to it briefly.When he took over the bar he put up a new sign out front with "Champs" on it and redecorated the place with picture of athletes ,mostly fighters, and featured a few newspaper articles on the walls regarding his fistic endeavors.One I remember said he wanted to fight Archie Moore. I vaguely remember his fight in 1958 against an up and coming Puerto Rican kid named Jose Torres at Saint Nick's in The Apple. Torres busted him up pretty good as I recall. They stopped the fight because Burke's face was a mess and a couple of his ribs were cracked. Many years later when Burke was running the bar I told him that I had read that Torres had passed away. Burke just gave me a blank look.

Burke left his mark as a trainer in San Diego. He had a gym in North Park but had to close it mainly because the fighters were walking out the door with his gear stashed under their shirts.But he didn't sound sore about it.
"Hell. Those fighters,especially the Mexican ones ,didn't have any stuff, so they took mine.Can't really blame them."

Art Hafey ,the onetime number one featherweight contender, was Burke's pride and joy.When Hafey was inducted into The California Boxing Hall Of Fame,he gave credit to Burke for making him what he was in the ring. I also helped Burke get into the Cal Hall with the help of Rick Farris who was working under the founder Don Fraser.Burke at the time Burke was a no brainer but it wasn't a gimme unless you could promise Fraser that your party could buy up two tables of seating at the event which came to around 400 bucks. I got to admit I saw some people get inducted who were less qualified than my grandmother,.But Burke had the juice.Besides, him and Fraser were old drinking buddies. But Burke was fading in and out then with the dementia.At the last minute he bailed out and didn't go to LA with any paid customers. Burke was in the program and got in but when it came to calling his name Fraser put him on the pay no mind list.

Burke was an easy going guy at the end. He liked playing darts in the bar more than anything else.He put on a tournament on the weekends and he really got into it. He wouldn't mention boxing much.If you brought it up he'd give you his take,but it wasn't important to him anymore. The best story he told me was when he brought Hafey down to Monterrey to fight Ruben Olivares.Burke said Art hit Ruben with a shot to the gut that caused his mouthpiece to shoot out and land in the bleachers. If someone had an opinion about boxing that was totally off the wall Burke would just smile and agree with the guy.

Shirley died before Burke did .It was kind of unexpected.That's when Burke really got bad. They had to put him in a home and all he would ask was,"Where's Shirley?"After awhile he began getting violent.They wouldn't let him have visitors anymore.No one wanted to see him like that anyway.

Shirley's grandson owns the bar now.A few years ago he put up a new sign. The place is still named Champs.Can't say I blame him.


Burke and me in his place.I miss the guy.