2003 Baby Joe Mesi VS Various Heavyweights

[Jake Savage]

The Year is 2003. Remember those hey days boys? Motorola and Nokia Flip-phones were just coming in, The "boy bands" of the late 90's early 00's like Backstreet Boys and Nsync were fading out of memory, and Nickelback and Sum41 and Basement Jaxx and Christina Aguilera and Nelly were the tunes of the days. George Bush had just invaded Iraq for non-existent Weapons of Mass Destruction and the televisions were telling us all to be afraid of "terrorism". We were all making money in the stock market and laughing before it all went to sh1t with the bust of 2008 and the permanent economic depression of COVID years of today. Maybe it's all gone downhill since then, eh lads?

Baby Joe Mesi in September 2003, made his HBO Debut in an electrifying 1st round KO of DaVarryl Williamson, and at the time it seemed the sky was the limit for the All American kid from Buffalo, NY. I remember watching his fight VS Williamson live, from the HSBC Arena in Buffalo, NY. Baby Joe came out to ACDC's Thunderstruck then knocked Williamson out cold with a left hook in the first round. Jim Lampley, of HBO Boxing After Dark commented that DaVarryl "Touch of Sleep" Williamson: "Touch of Sleep, has been put to sleep".



Bit of a throwback video there. Unfortunately, we never got to see Joe Mesi's full potential or where his career would have led to due to an injury he sustained in 2004. He did win a 10 round decision VS former undisputed cruiserweight champion Vasily Jirov, but sustained a brain bleed in the winning effort (in that fight I remember watching and Jirov rabbit punched him throughout, should have been disqualified). Joe Mesi was never the same after that fight, and was not able to box legally in a majority of US States after the fight. After boxing in obscure locations to evade his medical ban due to brain bleed, Baby Joe Mesi retired in 2007 undefeated at 36-0 (29 KO).

Mesi was a smaller heavyweight in height, but had very fast hands, good boxing IQ from a good amateur background, a hell of a left hook, and he had plenty of heart (his winning effort, dropped three times VS Jirov but still held on to win, an almost "Rocky" like story) How would his career have gone if he didn't suffer the brain bleed VS Jirov? How would he have fared against some of the name Heavyweights in 2003?

Possible Mesi Opponents in 2003:

- Lennox Lewis, who in 2003 won VS Vitali Klitschko, but it wasn't a good win, and Lewis was just starting to look very beatable and old all of a sudden. Lennox Lewis was the man at heavyweight in 2003, but would soon after retire. At this stage of Lewis's career he was most beatable, almost lost to Klitschko. Is it conceivable that Joe Mesi could have beaten Lewis at this stage of his career?

- Vitali Klitschko (who would soon become acknowledged RING Heavyweight Champion in 2004) in June 2003, just lost a give-and-take brawl with Undisputed World Champion Lennox Lewis, but it was the type of loss that Lewis looked vulnerable in, and Vitali suddenly looked like the next big heavyweight champion, which turned out to be true.

- John Ruiz, who in December 2003 won the WBA Heavyweight Title VS Hasim Rahman. Ruiz seemed to do nothing well throughout his career but was always "there" and always gave everyone a tough fight, including Roy Jones Jr., when he moved up to challenge for the heavyweight title.

- Corrie Sanders, who in March 2003, unexpectedly KO'd Wladimir Klitschko in 2 rounds in Germany, one of the biggest heavyweight upsets of all time in hindsight, as Wladimir would later tie the record for the longest heavyweight championship reign in history. Sanders was a South African southpaw with incredible speed and power.

- Hasim Rahman, who in 2003, lost the WBA Heavyweight Title to John Ruiz and had a Draw with David Tua. Gone were the glory days of 2001, when, if you remember, Rahman KO'd Lennox Lewis in Africa to become Undisputed. Rahman was KTFO in the rematch and by 2003 was still present in the heavyweight rankings, but on a downward trajectory.

Other Interesting Matchups (historically):

- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Tommy Morrison
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Oliver McCall
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Mike Tyson
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Peter McNeeley
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Max Schmeling

How good could Joe Mesi have been and would he have won any of these fights?

[DrDuke]

Klit wouldn't lose a round against Baby Joe, he would maul Mesi in the trademark style, with heavy non-stop jabs and 1-2's. Mesi would try sloppy bobbing and weaving with occasional short spurt attempts, he would try to block Klit's onslaught, but gradually he would be exhausted and beaten to the stoppage.

Klit by TKO in about 7 rounds.

And Morrison kayos Mesi a bit earlier in his common power-punching, aggressive, but methodical fashion.

[Jake Savage]

Klit wouldn't lose a round against Baby Joe, he would maul Mesi in the trademark style, with heavy non-stop jabs and 1-2's. Mesi would try sloppy bobbing and weaving with occasional short spurt attempts, he would try to block Klit's onslaught, but gradually he would be exhausted and beaten to the stoppage.

Klit by TKO in about 7 rounds.

And Morrison kayos Mesi a bit earlier in his common power-punching, aggressive, but methodical fashion.

Fair assessments , I agree that Baby Joe would have no chance in a fight VS Vitali. I agree, that a stoppage would occur in mid rounds.

In fairness, I disagree on your opinion on Tommy Morrison VS Joe Mesi however. Tommy Morrison was a banger, thats true, but whenever he ran into a guy that wouldnt be put down, or stayed in the fight (such as Ray Mercer, or Lennox Lewis, etc.) he often tired in mid to late rounds. Joe Mesi had a lot of heart. I could see Tommy Morrison dropping Joe Mesi early in, dominating the first 4 rounds, but Mesi holding on and coming back to TKO Tommy in later rounds or win a decision. Mesi had a lot of heart, and like Fury did VS Wilder in the first fight, if hes dropped, hes getting up. Joe Mesi also had a lot of power in his own right and in fact, I think he wouldve withstood an early Morrison onslaught and KO'd Tommy late.

[HomicideHenry]

The only person you have listed that Mesi could have defeated was Peter McNeeley. Don't get me wrong I like watching the man fight on TV and it was a shame that he ended up with a brain bleed which ended his career, but I'm reminded of Rocky Marciano's brothers being asked their thoughts on him and they were quick to reply that Mesi looked more like one of Rocky's opponents.

The man literally went life and death with Vasily Jirov. Yes it was arguably the best heavyweight fight that year that did not involve a title, but that basically says it all. He would have gotten chewed up and spit out by Vitali or Vladimir Klitschko let alone Lennox Lewis, and I'll go as far to say that John Ruiz probably would have gotten a mid to late round stoppage over him.

[gilgamesh]

Lennox Lewis KO 2 Joe Mesi
Vitali Kitschko KO 2 Joe Mesi
John Ruiz KO 8 Joe Mesi
Sanders KO 3 Joe Mesi
Hasim Rahman KO 3 or 4 Joe Mesi

Historical matchups
Tommy Morrison KO 1 Joe Mesi
Oliver McCall KO 5 Joe Mesi
Mike Tyson KO 1 Joe Mesi
Joe Mesi W10 Peter McNeeley (though it'd probably be an SD, and therefore could go either way)
Schmeling KO 9 or 10 Mesi

So yeah. I got him going 1-9 with 9 KO losses at best, and 0-10 with 9 KO losses at worst.

If he was lucky he might could survive the distance with Ruiz and Schmeling, but I doubt it.

[Jake Savage]

My picks:

Joe Mesi VS Lennox Lewis, 2003: Lewis W Decision (in his prime years Lewis would have KO'd Mesi, but 2003 was not his prime years, feel like Mesi might survive)
Joe Mesi VS Vitali Klitschko, 2003: Klitschko KO Mid Rounds (Vitali just too big too strong too good)
Joe Mesi VS John Ruiz, 2003: 50-50 fight (anyone's fight, I do think Mesi could have won this if he fought the perfect fight, had he done it in 2003, he would have been a world heavyweight champ too)
Joe Mesi VS Corrie Sanders, 2003: Sanders KO Late Rounds (Corrie Sanders was one of the most naturally gifted heavyweights just never took it seriously. His power was better than Vitali's, on par with Lewis. Not saying he is a better fighter than Vitali but in terms of just KO power, ya he had amazing 1 punch power)
Joe Mesi VS Hasim Rahman, 2003: 50-50 fight (anyone's fight, I do think Mesi could have won this if he fought the perfect fight)

So I do think it's possible that Joe Mesi beat Hasim Rahman and John Ruiz, and could possibly, have been a heavyweight champ in 2003. Not against Klitschko or Lewis. But guys like Golota, Ruiz, Rahman were winnable fights for him.

- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Tommy Morrison: Joe Mesi KO 10
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Oliver McCall: Joe Mesi W 12
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Mike Tyson: Mike Tyson KO 7
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Peter McNeeley: Joe Mesi KO 2
- Prime Joe Mesi VS Prime Max Schmeling: Max Schmeling W 12

[HomicideHenry]

Boys I think were being trolled here.

[gilgamesh]

Boys I think were being trolled here.

Not necessarily, but we may well have stumbled upon Joe Mesi's biggest fan.

Do you happen to be from the Buffalo area Jake Savage?

I'm not even meaning that as a mock or anything. I can totally see how a fairly big name Prospect Heavyweight contender from your area beginning to gain notoriety would be a thing that would stick with ya. Maybe that's it.

I remember thinking Mesi might have some potential for a time, but the Jirov and Monte Barrett fights pretty clearly showed his ceiling I felt.

The KO 1 win over Williamson is legitimately a good one though.

[Jake Savage]

The man literally went life and death with Vasily Jirov.

Thats true, but people forget that Vasily Jirov was an Undisputed Cruiserweight Champion, similar to Oleksandr Usyk today. Jirov was a highly successful amateur and was a great opponent to Mesi's resume. Jirov also rabbit punched in that fight and should have been disqualified, likely leading to Joe Mesi's brain bleed.

[gilgamesh]

The man literally went life and death with Vasily Jirov.

Thats true, but people forget that Vasily Jirov was an Undisputed Cruiserweight Champion, similar to Oleksandr Usyk today. Jirov was a highly successful amateur and was a great opponent to Mesi's resume. Jirov also rabbit punched in that fight and should have been disqualified, likely leading to Joe Mesi's brain bleed.

Jirov was a Cruiserweight Champion. He was not Undisputed.

[Jake Savage]

The man literally went life and death with Vasily Jirov.

Thats true, but people forget that Vasily Jirov was an Undisputed Cruiserweight Champion, similar to Oleksandr Usyk today. Jirov was a highly successful amateur and was a great opponent to Mesi's resume. Jirov also rabbit punched in that fight and should have been disqualified, likely leading to Joe Mesi's brain bleed.

Jirov was a Cruiserweight Champion. He was not Undisputed.

Fair. But he was acknowledged as the unquestionable #1 Cruiser in the World for several years before going up to heavyweight. Joe Mesi beat him. Jirov is not an easy opponent, was a hell of a fighter. I would have taken Jirov over say John Ruiz personally in 2003. Mesi beat Jirov. So, i think its possible Mesi wouldve beaten a guy like John Ruiz or Hasim Rahman.

Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko wouldve easily beat Joe Mesi. But John Ruiz, or Andrew Golota, or Hasim Rahman? Joe Mesi would have been in those fights.

[gilgamesh]

Thats true, but people forget that Vasily Jirov was an Undisputed Cruiserweight Champion, similar to Oleksandr Usyk today. Jirov was a highly successful amateur and was a great opponent to Mesi's resume. Jirov also rabbit punched in that fight and should have been disqualified, likely leading to Joe Mesi's brain bleed.

Jirov was a Cruiserweight Champion. He was not Undisputed.

Fair. But he was acknowledged as the unquestionable #1 Cruiser in the World for several years before going up to heavyweight. Joe Mesi beat him. Jirov is not an easy opponent, was a hell of a fighter. I would have taken Jirov over say John Ruiz personally in 2003. Mesi beat Jirov. So, i think its possible Mesi wouldve beaten a guy like John Ruiz or Hasim Rahman.

Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko wouldve easily beat Joe Mesi. But John Ruiz, or Andrew Golota, or Hasim Rahman? Joe Mesi would have been in those fights.

I think Mesi would've definitely beaten Jirov.

Jirov did after all get KO'd by a shot Michael Moorer in a fight that he'd dominated. If Moorer circa 2004 can KO Jirov then Ruiz, Rahman, Golota, Vitali, Lennox WOULD KO him. There's no 2 ways about it.

I think if Mesi did absolutely as good as he could POSSIBLY do against Ruiz. He'd still wind up getting dropped once or twice and losing a lopsided decision.

He got up to about #9 or 8 at his peak in the rankings right?

That was his ceiling. That was his limit. He couldn't have gone any further.

[gilgamesh]

I'll say this for him though. He could've beaten the other prospects of his time I think.

I'd pick him for sure over Dominick Guinn, and I think he'd be 50/50 with Fres Oquendo during this time period.

It'd be interesting to see how he'd do with the likes of say...Audley Harrison or David Price. That's more his speed I think.

[HomicideHenry]

You tend to overlook the other heavyweight fights that Jirov had after Mesi. There's a reason why Jirov did not barnstorm the heavyweight division. Yes he was in exciting fights and was a tough rugged individual but he was pretty limited and wide open to counters.

Jirov and Williamson and Barrett were the only substantial wins of his entire career. The same Barrett that Haye knocked out. The same Williamson who could do very little with Vladimir Klitschko. The same Jirov who lost to a former 160 pounder who was long in the tooth by the name of James Toney.

Mesi EARNED his top ten ranking, don't get me wrong but he was nowhere near ready for the real top guys who could really bang or who had great skills, especially when you figure most of those guys at the top of the division were far bigger than he was.

[gilgamesh]

You tend to overlook the other heavyweight fights that Jirov had after Mesi. There's a reason why Jirov did not barnstorm the heavyweight division. Yes he was in exciting fights and was a tough rugged individual but he was pretty limited and wide open to counters.

Jirov and Williamson and Barrett were the only substantial wins of his entire career. The same Barrett that Haye knocked out. The same Williamson who could do very little with Vladimir Klitschko. The same Jirov who lost to a former 160 pounder who was long in the tooth by the name of James Toney.

Mesi EARNED his top ten ranking, don't get me wrong but he was nowhere near ready for the real top guys who could really bang or who had great skills, especially when you figure most of those guys at the top of the division were far bigger than he was.

Actually didn't Williamson knock down Klitschko? I remember Wlad won that fight via Technical Decision, and it was another fight that kinda raised doubts about him on the heels of the losses to Brewster and Sanders. Wlad had a pretty long road back to prominence there for a few years.

[HomicideHenry]

You tend to overlook the other heavyweight fights that Jirov had after Mesi. There's a reason why Jirov did not barnstorm the heavyweight division. Yes he was in exciting fights and was a tough rugged individual but he was pretty limited and wide open to counters.

Jirov and Williamson and Barrett were the only substantial wins of his entire career. The same Barrett that Haye knocked out. The same Williamson who could do very little with Vladimir Klitschko. The same Jirov who lost to a former 160 pounder who was long in the tooth by the name of James Toney.

Mesi EARNED his top ten ranking, don't get me wrong but he was nowhere near ready for the real top guys who could really bang or who had great skills, especially when you figure most of those guys at the top of the division were far bigger than he was.

Actually didn't Williamson knock down Klitschko? I remember Wlad won that fight via Technical Decision, and it was another fight that kinda raised doubts about him on the heels of the losses to Brewster and Sanders. Wlad had a pretty long road back to prominence there for a few years.

Probably the wrong choice of words that I used when I said "did very little," but the context of the time was that Vladimir was the lesser brother and Williamson was incapable of defeating this glass jawed robot as he was being labeled by the boxing critics. Williamson did at one point seem to have a promising career that much cannot be denied but unfortunately he simply wasn't the goods.

[gilgamesh]

There ain't no doubt about that.

And I definitely don't remember Williamson fondly because he was one half of that ABYSMAL fight with Chris Byrd in one of the very worst fights in the history of Boxing.

[Jake Savage]

You tend to overlook the other heavyweight fights that Jirov had after Mesi. There's a reason why Jirov did not barnstorm the heavyweight division. Yes he was in exciting fights and was a tough rugged individual but he was pretty limited and wide open to counters.

Jirov and Williamson and Barrett were the only substantial wins of his entire career. The same Barrett that Haye knocked out. The same Williamson who could do very little with Vladimir Klitschko. The same Jirov who lost to a former 160 pounder who was long in the tooth by the name of James Toney.

Mesi EARNED his top ten ranking, don't get me wrong but he was nowhere near ready for the real top guys who could really bang or who had great skills, especially when you figure most of those guys at the top of the division were far bigger than he was.

Actually didn't Williamson knock down Klitschko? I remember Wlad won that fight via Technical Decision, and it was another fight that kinda raised doubts about him on the heels of the losses to Brewster and Sanders. Wlad had a pretty long road back to prominence there for a few years.

I believe youre right.

Joe Mesi KO'd DaVarryl Williamson in 1 round in 2003.'

I believe DaVarryl Williamson fought Wladimir Klitschko (in fairness this was before Wlad hit his peak and he was still rebuilding off of the Sanders KO loss) in 2004 or 2005. Williamson gave Wlad a very tough fight, I recall thinking that it was almost even up to the 5th round when it was stopped.

After that, Wlad became an Unified and largely Undisputed, Universally Recognized Heavyweight Champ and tied Joe Louis' record for most defenses ever of a heavyweight title (20). RING Magazine had Wlad as the #1 Heavyweight for almost a decade. So, Mesi destroyed a guy (Williamson) that Wlad struggled with.

In hindsight, Mesi's KO 1 over Williamson looks pretty good was a great victory.

Same can be said of his win over Jirov. Jirov was for years the #1 Cruiserweight in the World. Mesi beat him. It was life and death but bottom line is Mesi won. Despite the fact that Jirov was cheating, for the whole fight was rabbit punching, hitting Mesi behind the head, which probably led to his brain bleed.

Those are good victories nothing to be ashamed of.

Would Mesi have beaten Klitschko, Lewis, Usyk or Anthony Joshua or Tyson Fury? Obviously not.

But I think fights like say, John Ruiz, Hasim Rahman, Andrew Golota, Manuel Charr today etc., were very much winnable fights for him.

I do think that Joe Mesi is underrated,. He had heart. Good speed, boxing IQ. Hell of a left hook and could KO you too,.

I think the most interesting fight I suggested, is Mesi VS Tommy Morrison. Everyone seems to say Morrison would KO Mesi. Not sure I agree with that,. Morrison hits harder sure, but he fades late and Mesi would have gotten up. I think Mesi would have outboxed him or stopped him down the stretch.

Joe Mesi VS Tommy Morrison would have been a hell of a fight. Power VS Heart. I think Heart wins,

The truth is we don't know, and had Joe Mesi not been injured in the Jirov fight, and improved a bit. I think theres a chance he could have been a heavyweight champ at some point. Not saying he would have ever beat guys like Klitschko, or Tyson Fury, or Usyk, or Lennox Lewis, etc., but he could have been a WBA titlist like John Ruiz, or Roy Jones, or Fres Oquendo, or Manuel Charr was. He could have been a heavyweight champ!

[gilgamesh]

I'll give it to you that he could've potentially beaten Charr.

Wlad didn't tie Joe Louis' record for title defenses. Nobody has done that in any weight class.

[margaret thatcher]

baby joe was olympic trials runner up, boxed and won fights internationally on the american national team. beat rahman in the ams.. great ktfo vs hard hitting davarryl williamson, who after that gave wlad and byrd problems. he was a capable fighter with some offensive talent, he just wasnt top level. he was tough and had heart too, had a brain bleed and still didnt get stopped

he'd lose most of these obviously but some of the picks are way over the top in how quickly he'd be beaten, as if he's some total fraud who couldnt fight or had no durability. are we really questioning if he would beat pete mcneilly - a guy blown out by butterbean? he'd beat charr too and give the likes of ruiz a fight.

he's not ty fields

[gilgamesh]

baby joe was olympic trials runner up, boxed and won fights internationally on the american national team. beat rahman in the ams.. great ktfo vs hard hitting davarryl williamson, who after that gave wlad and byrd problems. he was a capable fighter with some offensive talent, he just wasnt top level. he was tough and had heart too, had a brain bleed and still didnt get stopped

he'd lose most of these obviously but some of the picks are way over the top in how quickly he'd be beaten, as if he's some total fraud who couldnt fight or had no durability. are we really questioning if he would beat pete mcneilly - a guy blown out by butterbean? he'd beat charr too and give the likes of ruiz a fight.

he's not ty fields

I don't think he was a total fraud, but the fact that he was dropped by repeatedly by Jirov means I don't think he'd hold up too well against a legit Heavyweight puncher.

I feel like Ruiz would knock him out late in an ugly fight, but yes I do feel like Mesi would hold his own with him up until that point.

[margaret thatcher]

he was blatantly hit on the back of the head and got a brain bleed from it, after battering jirov for 8 rounds and taking his shots fine until that point. the fight had been so one sided that mesi still ended up winning a ud. jirov couldnt do sh!t to him until then. i think it was an unfortunate and unlikely circumstance which is hard to generalize to hypothetical fights. do we expect him to get a brain bleed in those?

all these early kos are too much...........and this talk of peter mcneilly beating him? come on man! joe's way better than that. a solid lower top 15 type in his day, not some circus show who would be quickly iced by any one decent he faces

i think ppl are too quick to just toss him into the white hope novelty category when he could actually fight, albeit he was never going to beat an elite opponent

[DrDuke]

I can see Mesi losing to Byrd, Rahman, Toney, Peter, Sanders, but I think, he could hande Ruiz, since the Huggin Man wasn't able to box at all, while Mesi had enough agility to stay away from Johnny's grabbing attempts and score points.

[HomicideHenry]

I can see Mesi losing to Byrd, Rahman, Toney, Peter, Sanders, but I think, he could hande Ruiz, since the Huggin Man wasn't able to box at all, while Mesi had enough agility to stay away from Johnny's grabbing attempts and score points.

That is the aggravating thing about John Ruiz because he could box. You see flashes of it in different matches especially with Nicolai Valuev, he could box well but he chose not to for the most part. The devastating loss to David Tua for the most part ruined John Ruiz because prior to that he did box pretty good.

[DrDuke]

I can see Mesi losing to Byrd, Rahman, Toney, Peter, Sanders, but I think, he could hande Ruiz, since the Huggin Man wasn't able to box at all, while Mesi had enough agility to stay away from Johnny's grabbing attempts and score points.

That is the aggravating thing about John Ruiz because he could box. You see flashes of it in different matches especially with Nicolai Valuev, he could box well but he chose not to for the most part. The devastating loss to David Tua for the most part ruined John Ruiz because prior to that he did box pretty good.

Well, maybe he could do some resemblance of it, but he did it sloppy. And Valuev just doesn't have anything except straight paws, so it's not hard to outbox him. Ruiz failed to do it enough wide, allowed to rob him. Those, who really could box, like Chagaev or Haye, didn't leave Yeti a chance.