Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

HomicideHenry
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by HomicideHenry »

keithmoonhangover wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 08:58
HomicideHenry wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 08:29
keithmoonhangover wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 08:26

Who is Jim Thorpe?
:lol: I'm really hoping you're joking.
No, I'm not. Did he plays some silly American sport?


Jim Thorpe was and arguably still is the greatest all around athlete in history because he not only was an Olympic gold medalist in track and field, but he played professional baseball and professional football and professional basketball.

The man even dabbled in boxing a little bit sparring with heavyweight champion Max Baer, though he was well into his forties at the time and Max Baer said that it was a shame he didn't turn professional when he was a younger man.

Sure his records have been broken since then, but I don't think there was ever a more successful athlete who had such diverse athletic talents across so many different sports as Jim Thorpe.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by keithmoonhangover »

HomicideHenry wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 09:07
keithmoonhangover wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 08:58
HomicideHenry wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 08:29

:lol: I'm really hoping you're joking.
No, I'm not. Did he plays some silly American sport?


Jim Thorpe was and arguably still is the greatest all around athlete in history because he not only was an Olympic gold medalist in track and field, but he played professional baseball and professional football and professional basketball.

The man even dabbled in boxing a little bit sparring with heavyweight champion Max Baer, though he was well into his forties at the time and Max Baer said that it was a shame he didn't turn professional when he was a younger man.

Sure his records have been broken since then, but I don't think there was ever a more successful athlete who had such diverse athletic talents across so many different sports as Jim Thorpe.
I'm sure he was an excellent athlete, but basketball, baseball and grid iron were sports played almost exclusively in one country. If he played proper football, maybe we could have a conversation about it. :maybe:
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by HomicideHenry »

keithmoonhangover wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 09:11
HomicideHenry wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 09:07
keithmoonhangover wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 08:58

No, I'm not. Did he plays some silly American sport?


Jim Thorpe was and arguably still is the greatest all around athlete in history because he not only was an Olympic gold medalist in track and field, but he played professional baseball and professional football and professional basketball.

The man even dabbled in boxing a little bit sparring with heavyweight champion Max Baer, though he was well into his forties at the time and Max Baer said that it was a shame he didn't turn professional when he was a younger man.

Sure his records have been broken since then, but I don't think there was ever a more successful athlete who had such diverse athletic talents across so many different sports as Jim Thorpe.
I'm sure he was an excellent athlete, but basketball, baseball and grid iron were sports played almost exclusively in one country. If he played proper football, maybe we could have a conversation about it. :maybe:
I think whether a man played soccer or not completely misses the point. The man was Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders long before the notion or idea of athletes participating in multiple sports became a big thing. And even those men, in a way, pale in comparison to Jim Thorpe because he was in more sports than just football and baseball.

One must understand that soccer has never really held much appeal in the United States until the 1990s or early 2000s. When I was in school we only played soccer in gym class occasionally but it was never apart of the extracurricular sports activities where there was an actual soccer team. It was kind of seen as one of those foreign novelties.

If you wanted to play soccer you had to play it in some college or university that had it because for the most part it simply did not exist at the elementary or junior or high school level. Same with rugby it only exists on the collegiate level here in America, unless that has changed in the past 15 years or so since I graduated high school.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by Ambling Alp II »

HomicideHenry wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 07:28
Ezzard wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 15:33
gilgamesh wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 15:03

You kinda almost have to separate 'em.

It's really not fair to either the guys from the past or the present to compare them to guys from the era where there's little to no footage of them because we're not able to accurately critique them. Obviously their records speaks to the fact that they MUST have been amazing, but just how incredible or effective their technique is compared to guys from other eras we're not fit to say because we're not lucky enough to see it.
All good but for me in the end the greatest player of any sport needs to be able to be witnessed. I love boxing but telling sports fans this guy is the greatest ever but you can't watch him just wouldn't wash.
I don't necessarily buy into that argument.

I never saw Jim Thorpe compete as an athlete but it's safe to say the man was the world's greatest athlete for the first half of the 20th century. In the same vein I've only seen little short clips of Sam Langford boxing but on the basis of his record and the names that he beat over the course of five weight divisions I have to figure the man was the greatest boxer there ever was.

Even with film available you'll have people who doubt. It's like arguments I've had with my nephews who never saw Michael Jordan play even though there is tons of film available and they are convinced LeBron James is the greatest.

Of course we'll never know 100% concretely who is the greatest in any sport, especially if you consider that sports evolve and rules change. Maybe Langford is only the greatest boxer of the 20th century or the greatest boxer of the first half of the 20th century. It's really difficult to compare apples and oranges especially when you figure most of the men we're talking about were apart of era's referees weren't squeamish and fights went 15 rounds or longer with gloves that were as little as 3 ounces, etc.

This kind of reminds me of when Wilt Chamberlain was asked about Michael Jordan and Chamberlain stated, "Do you think Jordan would have been as great as he was had they changed the rules around him like they did me?" and the same logic has to apply with boxing as well.

Nobody is unbeatable I don't care how fast they are or how tough they are or how skilled they are. If the rules and circumstances are just right anybody can be beaten. Imagine Muhammad Ali with 3 oz gloves on where you were fighting inside of an 18 ft ring where there was no neutral corner rule, and the fight was scheduled somewhere between 20 or 45 rounds. A man of his style with high volume jabs would have broken his hands pretty fast and would have been completely useless after a while.

Some people you can argue are only the greatest in accordance to the rules in which they play or compete. Meaning that in any other time under any other kind of rules they would not have had the success that they did. Especially in this day and age that we live in of 12 rounds and 10 oz gloves with referees stopping fights pretty quickly.

I'm not so sure that the likes of Joe Frazier and others would have been able to have a lot of success today because the fights may very well have been stopped because somebody got hit with 5 or 10 unanswered punches even if they were completely fine. People can talk about boxing progressing better and better over time but I think that is largely an illusion because of how diluted or watered down the sport has kind of become since the 1980s.
Most of this post is BS. However, I agree that Jim Thorpe was one of the greatest athletes of all time. Certainly Top 10.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by HomicideHenry »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 12:29
HomicideHenry wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 07:28
Ezzard wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 15:33

All good but for me in the end the greatest player of any sport needs to be able to be witnessed. I love boxing but telling sports fans this guy is the greatest ever but you can't watch him just wouldn't wash.
I don't necessarily buy into that argument.

I never saw Jim Thorpe compete as an athlete but it's safe to say the man was the world's greatest athlete for the first half of the 20th century. In the same vein I've only seen little short clips of Sam Langford boxing but on the basis of his record and the names that he beat over the course of five weight divisions I have to figure the man was the greatest boxer there ever was.

Even with film available you'll have people who doubt. It's like arguments I've had with my nephews who never saw Michael Jordan play even though there is tons of film available and they are convinced LeBron James is the greatest.

Of course we'll never know 100% concretely who is the greatest in any sport, especially if you consider that sports evolve and rules change. Maybe Langford is only the greatest boxer of the 20th century or the greatest boxer of the first half of the 20th century. It's really difficult to compare apples and oranges especially when you figure most of the men we're talking about were apart of era's referees weren't squeamish and fights went 15 rounds or longer with gloves that were as little as 3 ounces, etc.

This kind of reminds me of when Wilt Chamberlain was asked about Michael Jordan and Chamberlain stated, "Do you think Jordan would have been as great as he was had they changed the rules around him like they did me?" and the same logic has to apply with boxing as well.

Nobody is unbeatable I don't care how fast they are or how tough they are or how skilled they are. If the rules and circumstances are just right anybody can be beaten. Imagine Muhammad Ali with 3 oz gloves on where you were fighting inside of an 18 ft ring where there was no neutral corner rule, and the fight was scheduled somewhere between 20 or 45 rounds. A man of his style with high volume jabs would have broken his hands pretty fast and would have been completely useless after a while.

Some people you can argue are only the greatest in accordance to the rules in which they play or compete. Meaning that in any other time under any other kind of rules they would not have had the success that they did. Especially in this day and age that we live in of 12 rounds and 10 oz gloves with referees stopping fights pretty quickly.

I'm not so sure that the likes of Joe Frazier and others would have been able to have a lot of success today because the fights may very well have been stopped because somebody got hit with 5 or 10 unanswered punches even if they were completely fine. People can talk about boxing progressing better and better over time but I think that is largely an illusion because of how diluted or watered down the sport has kind of become since the 1980s.
Most of this post is BS. However, I agree that Jim Thorpe was one of the greatest athletes of all time. Certainly Top 10.
Yes because the people you grew up watching could compete with anybody or defeat everybody at any given time no matter what the circumstances were :roll: that's why everything I say is complete BS when it comes to boxing.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by Jeff_lacy_ko »

Eras matter

Jordan was a below average 3 point shooter by todays standards, but hed certainly be much better if hed play today because hed shoot more of them and practice more of them

Boxing is very interesting because old fighters fought a lot more than current ones. And of course the more you do something the better you are.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by Ambling Alp II »

Guess it depends on when you are taking about. But at least until the the middle of the 20th century, fighters used to fight more often in general.
And it was a different set up. Early on you didn't automatically go 20-0 if you were a prospect.
You would fight some tough veterans.
and other good younger fighters.
If you were a contender, you were expected to take on other contenders.
Naturally the best fighters would have more losses on their records than they do now.

What I was getting to about homicide's post was the oversimplification of how things were. Most fights weren't 20 rounds. 45 was extremely rare. Gloves might be 3 oz, but often were bigger in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Ring size was all over the place as well. 16 feet in one fight, 24 in another, and everything in between.
There were guys that move a round well and jabbed a lot. (Corbett, Tunney etc.)
Frazier and Ali were past it when I started following boxing as a kid. Anyone who saw the Thrilla in Manila (among other fights) should know they were as tough as nails and would have been at the top in any era.

As for Jim Thorpe, he won the Decathalon and the Pentathalon, despite not having a lot of experience. He was a great football player in college and the pros. He was good enough to play major league baseball, but wasn't very good by major league standards.
Basketball was in it's infancy. He just played that as a lark and to make a few bucks; we have no idea of how good he was compared to others.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by HomicideHenry »

What I was getting to about homicide's post was the oversimplification of how things were. Most fights weren't 20 rounds. 45 was extremely rare.

Gloves might be 3 oz, but often were bigger in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Ring size was all over the place as well. 16 feet in one fight, 24 in another, and everything in between.

There were guys that move a round well and jabbed a lot. (Corbett, Tunney etc.)Frazier and Ali were past it when I started following boxing as a kid. Anyone who saw the Thrilla in Manila (among other fights) should know they were as tough as nails and would have been at the top in any era.
1- From the 1860s-1920s, championship matches were often 20-45 rounds or better. Some fights had no round limit at all but were fights to the finish where somebody either was knocked out or they quit. One only needs to look back on various records from that time frame and we'll see that most people in their first few fights were already dabbling in 10 or 15 round contests. Short matches of four rounds or six rounds or eight rounds were generally considered sparring matches. But it also depended on the jurisdiction you went to. People tend to forget but they were staging 20 round championship fights as late as Joe Louis. So I tend to disagree with you, fights were typically longer back then.

2- As for gloves from 1860s-1920s, you will see on many people's records that it will say "skintight gloves were used," which was coach driving gloves. It was really to the discretion of the fighters as to what they felt most comfortable wearing. There was no real uniformity with gloves until much later. Most of the gloves you see fighters posed with in photographs were not the fighting gloves but the sparring gloves. For a long time gloves were 3 oz with opposable thumbs and later on it became 6 oz with opposable thumbs, only for the gloves to get up to 8 oz with the thumb attached to the glove so people couldn't use it to thumb anyone or grab the hold of their opponent. As for rings, some were round and some were rectangular and some were squares. Most did not have wooden flooring but was fought on turf. Wouldn't be until much later having a universal consensus of a square, but they varied in sizes for a long, long time. For example Rocky Marciano fought Don Cockell in a 16 ft square ring. When was the last time you ever saw a world championship fought in a ring that small?

3- Yes, there was fighters who moved around well but if you notice they weren't throwing high volume jabs or quite frankly doing a lot of punches anyways. Body punching was more the emphasis in those times than it was in the time of Ali and Frazier where people were teeing off at the head more than ever. You had to really reserve your punches and be smart about when and where you were going to throw punches back then otherwise you risked breaking your hands. Which is why a lot of the fighters back then look so methodical and cautious on film, or they resorted to clinching so they could set up body punches or upper cuts.

That being said I think Joe Frazier would have had more success in those times than Muhammad Ali, especially the further back you go. He was more of a body puncher, and pretty rough and tumble when need be with great conditioning and a great chin. Ali, I think, would have busted his hands early and would have spent the majority of the time running around for 15 rounds burning himself out and that's when his opponents would have attacked him kind of like Jess Willard weathering the storm for 20 rounds only to come back to knock out Jack Johnson in the 26th. One might even make the argument that Muhammad Ali would have been penalized in those times for "not fighting like a man," relying so much on running away from opponents.

And lastly I might point out that Muhammad Ali once said in an interview with Howard Cosell when talking about how he would have fared against past heavyweight champions he was quick to say that he never would have fought in the bare knuckle era because he wouldn't have been pretty anymore. So this notion or idea that Muhammad Ali would have been the top man in every single era in boxing history is nothing but a flight of fancy.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by Ambling Alp II »

1. As I said eralier thje lengths of fights were all over the place. Title fights were occasionally 45, more often 20. Occasionally 25. Sometimes 10, 12, or 15. Main event fights were often 15, but often 10 or 12. Have seen records of many that were 6, some even less.
2, As I said before, the size of gloves varied greatly. Sometimes you can tell just by old film that the fighters had bigger gloves than another old fight.

3. Jack Jonson was 37 years old when he lost to Willard. Still made it to the 26th round.
That was the only fight Willard ever had that was scheduled for more than 20. Willard-Dempsey was scheduled for

A prime Ali had tremendous stamina. fought at fast pace and had no problem going 15. He would have been fine if he had to go longer. If it was for 45, he would have paced himself. Who knows how Ali would have done bare knuckles in the 1860s. That was a different sport.
Ali would have been the best in any era from 1892 on. (the first hw title fight under Marquis of Queensbury Rules). Frazier would have been the best in some eras and near the top in any era.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by HomicideHenry »

I think up until the neutral corner rule was adopted, and gloves got much bigger and referees got more squeamish... Muhammad Ali would not have had much success because men like Jack Dempsey would have beaten the bajabbers out of him and kept him nailed to the canvas. Or he certainly would not have had a long career like he did when he did fight because the wear and tear would have built up quicker than it did in the sixties and seventies.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by Ambling Alp II »

Well, no.
Jack Dempsey would never have beaten the bejeebers out of him. Ali was very difficult to hit. Ali had a great chin. He would have been knocked down very rarely had he fought in that era. Even before the neutral corner rule came into a affect, the fighter scoring the knockdown had to let the other guy get up.
There were several others guys nowhere near Ali's level that went the distance against Dempsey.

Notice with those "small" gloves, Dempsey threw a lot of punches. Ali would have thrown more and would have connected a much higher rate.

Ali threw a lot punches and was a very accurate puncher. He would landed more often than he was getting hit by Dempsey or anyone else.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by HomicideHenry »

I think from this point on I'm no longer commenting to anything that you write because as far as your concerned Muhammad Ali could have never lost when in fact the man did lose in his career and he did look vulnerable when he was at his fastest in the 1960s but he was facing men nowhere near as good as the ones he would encounter in the 1970s.

I can't deal with a man who is that one-dimensional with absolutely no imagination or willingness to ever accept that his so-called hero in boxing could ever lose, or couldn't be the best of every era there ever was. The sport has changed so much since James Figg, and it don't take anyone with much brain power to know how difficult it would be to adjust to different rules and conditions and equipment.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by punchoutsb »

No, there are a few names already mentioned here that are in the conversation. No sport that has more than a little world interest has a clear number one; if the participation has been high for a hundred years there will be more than one name at the top.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by goose 5 »

Well put .
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Post by Ambling Alp II »

HomicideHenry wrote: 20 Jan 2023, 22:58 I think from this point on I'm no longer commenting to anything that you write because as far as your concerned Muhammad Ali could have never lost when in fact the man did lose in his career and he did look vulnerable when he was at his fastest in the 1960s but he was facing men nowhere near as good as the ones he would encounter in the 1970s.

I can't deal with a man who is that one-dimensional with absolutely no imagination or willingness to ever accept that his so-called hero in boxing could ever lose, or couldn't be the best of every era there ever was. The sport has changed so much since James Figg, and it don't take anyone with much brain power to know how difficult it would be to adjust to different rules and conditions and equipment.
Ali was the best hw of all time. He never looked vulnerable in his prime. Overall, his opponent's. were even better when he was past his prime in the 1970s. Even then he beat the best in the early and mid-70s. No hw one fought or beat better competition than him.

I wasn't going back to James Figg. It was a completely different sport the 1700s than it was in the late 1800s/1900s. which is why I said from Corbett on. As I pointed out, some rules and equipment varied in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sometimes it was more similar to what Ali experienced than others. Still there were more similarities than differences to those times and Ali's times. There is no reason to believe that he wouldn't have been the best and I have said why.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by Ambling Alp II »

punchoutsb wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 12:43 No, there are a few names already mentioned here that are in the conversation. No sport that has more than a little world interest has a clear number one; if the participation has been high for a hundred years there will be more than one name at the top.
It used to be almost a given that Robinson was #1. And he maybe he should be rated. However, you can make an argument for people like Greb, Langford, and Charles. There are probably others that aren't that far behind. As you say, it's not clear. Boxing in particular is tougher than most other sports because of the different weight classes.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by gilgamesh »

punchoutsb wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 12:43 No, there are a few names already mentioned here that are in the conversation. No sport that has more than a little world interest has a clear number one; if the participation has been high for a hundred years there will be more than one name at the top.
The only sport I can think of where there's a player that's the clear #1 with a bullet is Hockey.

That of course being Gretzky.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by gilgamesh »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 22 Jan 2023, 14:04
punchoutsb wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 12:43 No, there are a few names already mentioned here that are in the conversation. No sport that has more than a little world interest has a clear number one; if the participation has been high for a hundred years there will be more than one name at the top.
It used to be almost a given that Robinson was #1. And he maybe he should be rated. However, you can make an argument for people like Greb, Langford, and Charles. There are probably others that aren't that far behind. As you say, it's not clear. Boxing in particular is tougher than most other sports because of the different weight classes.
That's the thing too. All those names you mentioned you could make a case for any of them being #1 or certainly Top 5 all time. Who's actually #1 almost makes no difference because those guys almost have to be a Rock Solid Top 5, and because the sport and the activity of the fighters has changed so drastically as the years have gone on. Their achievements are basically unmatchable in the modern era. Very few people even come close.

If you're able to achieve enough in the here and now to even enter into the Top 20 all time, you've achieved something truly incredible considering the rich history of Boxing.

Because it's been around so long. It has a more revered history than almost any other major sport. At least to it's Die Hards.
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Post by Ambling Alp II »

gilgamesh wrote: 22 Jan 2023, 14:29
punchoutsb wrote: 21 Jan 2023, 12:43 No, there are a few names already mentioned here that are in the conversation. No sport that has more than a little world interest has a clear number one; if the participation has been high for a hundred years there will be more than one name at the top.
The only sport I can think of where there's a player that's the clear #1 with a bullet is Hockey.

That of course being Gretzky.
In some sports there is or should be.
Gretzky so far stands the test of time. Will be interesting if younger fans will start going with someone else if someone starts dominating.

Babe Ruth for baseball. (Many people still do)
Pele for soccer. (Many still do, except some younger fans)
Chamberlain should be for basketball but isn't. Jordan is by most people. Younger fans are starting to go for James.
NFL is hard because the different are so different.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by HomicideHenry »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 22 Jan 2023, 14:01
HomicideHenry wrote: 20 Jan 2023, 22:58 I think from this point on I'm no longer commenting to anything that you write because as far as your concerned Muhammad Ali could have never lost when in fact the man did lose in his career and he did look vulnerable when he was at his fastest in the 1960s but he was facing men nowhere near as good as the ones he would encounter in the 1970s.

I can't deal with a man who is that one-dimensional with absolutely no imagination or willingness to ever accept that his so-called hero in boxing could ever lose, or couldn't be the best of every era there ever was. The sport has changed so much since James Figg, and it don't take anyone with much brain power to know how difficult it would be to adjust to different rules and conditions and equipment.
Ali was the best hw of all time. He never looked vulnerable in his prime. Overall, his opponent's. were even better when he was past his prime in the 1970s. Even then he beat the best in the early and mid-70s. No hw one fought or beat better competition than him.

I wasn't going back to James Figg. It was a completely different sport the 1700s than it was in the late 1800s/1900s. which is why I said from Corbett on. As I pointed out, some rules and equipment varied in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sometimes it was more similar to what Ali experienced than others. Still there were more similarities than differences to those times and Ali's times. There is no reason to believe that he wouldn't have been the best and I have said why.
1- He did look vulnerable against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper, though. That's the thing. He wasn't untouchable. If they could do it, a lot of people could do better than they did against Ali.

2- Just because an era seems more similar to the one that Muhammad Ali fought in does not mean he would have success in it. I'm reminded of Bas Rutten saying to all these "no rules" fanatics, "So you think I can only fight under rules?," pointing out in a no rules situation he would be even more deadly than he is with rules. With boxing it's different than MMA because with MMA you are prepared for multiple different types of attacks. So I would say in a less confined era with smaller gloves Muhammad Ali would have struggled.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by Ambling Alp II »

1. Ali didn't look vulnerable against Jones. He fought a great fight. He did get knocked down by Cooper. He got up immediately and dominated the fight before and after that.
Besides, he was still getting better fight by fight at this stage of his career.
2. Ali would have been successful in any era from Corbett on and said why. Don't really care about James Figg and MMA. I am talking about Boxing under Marquis of Queensbury Rules. Not talking about other sports.

Perhaps, most importantly is what you said two days ago:

" I think from this point on I'm no longer commenting to anything that you write"
Yet here you are again. :lol:
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by DrDuke »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 10:35 Ali didn't look vulnerable against Jones.
Holy f8cken sh1t, that's the impudently ridiculous level of bias.
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Post by HomicideHenry »

DrDuke wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 10:40
Ambling Alp II wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 10:35 Ali didn't look vulnerable against Jones.
Holy f8cken sh1t, that's the impudently ridiculous level of bias.
I'm glad you quoted him before he could ever remotely think of changing what he wrote because it needs to stand on record the bias. The man believes that Muhammad Ali was like Superman and impossible to be defeated but he did look like crap against Doug Jones and he did hit the canvas against Henry Cooper.
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Post by Cojimar 1946 »

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: 19 Jan 2023, 13:46 Eras matter

Jordan was a below average 3 point shooter by todays standards, but hed certainly be much better if hed play today because hed shoot more of them and practice more of them

Boxing is very interesting because old fighters fought a lot more than current ones. And of course the more you do something the better you are.
Plenty of nba players today are not great 3 point shooters. You can't assume someone from a prior era will be good at shooting 3s when plenty of guys today are not.

Old fighters were able to get away with ducking great opponents just like guys today.
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Re: Do We All Agree That SRR Is The P4P Best Ever?

Post by gilgamesh »

DrDuke wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 10:40
Ambling Alp II wrote: 23 Jan 2023, 10:35 Ali didn't look vulnerable against Jones.
Holy f8cken sh1t, that's the impudently ridiculous level of bias.
For what it's worth I do think Ali won the fight with Jones, but you could certainly argue for a draw. I had it 6-4 Ali, and there's lots of close rounds of course.
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