John Duddy vs. Micky Ward

[RScarf1]

An Irish matchup of middleweight John Duddy vs. super lightweight Micky Ward, catchweight at 150 pounds

[Noxy]

Duddy at 150?! I doubt it

[gilgamesh]

These guys were separated by several weight classes.

This would never happen.

[RScarf1]

These guys were separated by several weight classes.

This would never happen.

Ward was a super lightweight (140). Duddy was a middleweight (160). Welterweight is in the middle (147). Ward fought at 145 once. Duddy fought at 155 once.

[HomicideHenry]

I liked Duddy but he was simply not world class. Ward was (in reality) on the fringe and the Gatti fights elevated him higher than what he was. But make no mistake he'd wreck Duddy.

[gilgamesh]

I liked Duddy but he was simply not world class. Ward was (in reality) on the fringe and the Gatti fights elevated him higher than what he was. But make no mistake he'd wreck Duddy.

They wouldn't fight. They're not the same size.

Why not make a thread about who wins between Carl Froch and Tim Bradley while we're at it.

The matchup doesn't even make sense here.

[HomicideHenry]

I liked Duddy but he was simply not world class. Ward was (in reality) on the fringe and the Gatti fights elevated him higher than what he was. But make no mistake he'd wreck Duddy.

They wouldn't fight. They're not the same size.

Why not make a thread about who wins between Carl Froch and Tim Bradley while we're at it.

The matchup doesn't even make sense here.

Perhaps but then again once upon a time you had guys like Sam Langford weighing 160-165 facing 190-200 Jack Johnson, so what's 5 or 10 pounds difference?

[gilgamesh]

I liked Duddy but he was simply not world class. Ward was (in reality) on the fringe and the Gatti fights elevated him higher than what he was. But make no mistake he'd wreck Duddy.

They wouldn't fight. They're not the same size.

Why not make a thread about who wins between Carl Froch and Tim Bradley while we're at it.

The matchup doesn't even make sense here.

Perhaps but then again once upon a time you had guys like Sam Langford weighing 160-165 facing 190-200 Jack Johnson, so what's 5 or 10 pounds difference?

Fine then.

Duddy knocks out Micky Ward in 5 rounds because he outweighs him by 20 pounds.

Otherwise it doesn't happen because they're not the same size, and this isn't 1910.

Settled?

[HomicideHenry]

No way does Duddy knock out Ward because Duddy never was a world beater. He was a New England fighter at best who just had a big fan following because he was Irish. Ward would weather the storm and decision him.

[gilgamesh]

No way does Duddy knock out Ward because Duddy never was a world beater. He was a New England fighter at best who just had a big fan following because he was Irish. Ward would weather the storm and decision him.

No way does Duddy not knock out Ward. He's a Middleweight fighting a Jr. Welterweight.

No way do they ever agree to a catchweight bout. So that's your only scenario.

[HomicideHenry]

No way does Duddy knock out Ward because Duddy never was a world beater. He was a New England fighter at best who just had a big fan following because he was Irish. Ward would weather the storm and decision him.

No way does Duddy not knock out Ward. He's a Middleweight fighting a Jr. Welterweight.

No way do they ever agree to a catchweight bout. So that's your only scenario.

The entire thread hinges upon the premise that Duddy did agree to a 150 pound catchweight though. So the scenario is fringe contender Duddy coming in light. He's not knocking out Ward.

Then again I'm of the opinion that weight doesn't really matter when you have one guy who obviously had a far better career than the other man. There is a big disparity between Ward and Duddy in terms of overall ability and worth. So even if Mickey Ward was a junior welterweight I could see him still beating John Duddy.

I know we agree to disagree on that and that's okay. It's like an argument I had with my brother-in-law who was over 200 lb and I told him that a professional bantamweight boxer would beat the crap out of him and he disagreed saying he was too big but I believe a complete heavyweight novice would get embarrassed by somebody that small who had the skills and credentials.

[gilgamesh]

No way does Duddy knock out Ward because Duddy never was a world beater. He was a New England fighter at best who just had a big fan following because he was Irish. Ward would weather the storm and decision him.

No way does Duddy not knock out Ward. He's a Middleweight fighting a Jr. Welterweight.

No way do they ever agree to a catchweight bout. So that's your only scenario.

The entire thread hinges upon the premise that Duddy did agree to a 150 pound catchweight though. So the scenario is fringe contender Duddy coming in light. He's not knocking out Ward.

Then again I'm of the opinion that weight doesn't really matter when you have one guy who obviously had a far better career than the other man. There is a big disparity between Ward and Duddy in terms of overall ability and worth. So even if Mickey Ward was a junior welterweight I could see him still beating John Duddy.

I know we agree to disagree on that and that's okay. It's like an argument I had with my brother-in-law who was over 200 lb and I told him that a professional bantamweight boxer would beat the crap out of him and he disagreed saying he was too big but I believe a complete heavyweight novice would get embarrassed by somebody that small who had the skills and credentials.

That's what I'm saying. Duddy agreeing to come down to 150 pounds to fight Ward is about as likely a scenario as Froch agreeing to come down to 155 to fight Tim Bradley.

It would never ever, ever, ever, f*cking happen.

Not even in an alternate universe

....Ya know what, scratch that. I suppose in an alternate universe Boxing might've gotten more brutal instead of less, and perhaps now we'd just now be getting into the era when smaller guys fought bigger guys, longer than 15 rounds, etc.

But in THIS universe. John Duddy knocks out Ward because he outweighs him by 20 pounds.

[gilgamesh]

No way does Duddy knock out Ward because Duddy never was a world beater. He was a New England fighter at best who just had a big fan following because he was Irish. Ward would weather the storm and decision him.

No way does Duddy not knock out Ward. He's a Middleweight fighting a Jr. Welterweight.

No way do they ever agree to a catchweight bout. So that's your only scenario.

The entire thread hinges upon the premise that Duddy did agree to a 150 pound catchweight though. So the scenario is fringe contender Duddy coming in light. He's not knocking out Ward.

Then again I'm of the opinion that weight doesn't really matter when you have one guy who obviously had a far better career than the other man. There is a big disparity between Ward and Duddy in terms of overall ability and worth. So even if Mickey Ward was a junior welterweight I could see him still beating John Duddy.

I know we agree to disagree on that and that's okay. It's like an argument I had with my brother-in-law who was over 200 lb and I told him that a professional bantamweight boxer would beat the crap out of him and he disagreed saying he was too big but I believe a complete heavyweight novice would get embarrassed by somebody that small who had the skills and credentials.

I weigh over 200 pounds at the moment. My strategy against a Bantamweight sized guy would be to just soak up everything he throws, and attack him with jabs to the body in response until he slows down enough for me to catch him. I can't see a Bantamweight's punch giving me much pause. Even a big punching Bantamweight.

I'd actually love the chance to test this as well just for sh*ts and giggles. Because it wouldn't make me mad whatever the case. I'd just genuinely be curious to know at what point does a size advantage become insurmountable.

[HomicideHenry]

No way does Duddy not knock out Ward. He's a Middleweight fighting a Jr. Welterweight.

No way do they ever agree to a catchweight bout. So that's your only scenario.

The entire thread hinges upon the premise that Duddy did agree to a 150 pound catchweight though. So the scenario is fringe contender Duddy coming in light. He's not knocking out Ward.

Then again I'm of the opinion that weight doesn't really matter when you have one guy who obviously had a far better career than the other man. There is a big disparity between Ward and Duddy in terms of overall ability and worth. So even if Mickey Ward was a junior welterweight I could see him still beating John Duddy.

I know we agree to disagree on that and that's okay. It's like an argument I had with my brother-in-law who was over 200 lb and I told him that a professional bantamweight boxer would beat the crap out of him and he disagreed saying he was too big but I believe a complete heavyweight novice would get embarrassed by somebody that small who had the skills and credentials.

I weigh over 200 pounds at the moment. My strategy against a Bantamweight sized guy would be to just soak up everything he throws, and attack him with jabs to the body in response until he slows down enough for me to catch him. I can't see a Bantamweight's punch giving me much pause. Even a big punching Bantamweight.

I'd actually love the chance to test this as well just for sh*ts and giggles. Because it wouldn't make me mad whatever the case. I'd just genuinely be curious to know at what point does a size advantage become insurmountable.

It definitely would be interesting considering Jimmy Wilde allegedly as a young man was knocking out men who weighed 100 pounds more than himself. Only way to know would be to go to the gym and ask to spar someone 120-130 pounds who had a lot of experience.

[goose 5]

If they weigh-in the day before, I'd take Duddy. Same day weigh-in, Ward; Duddy would be dead at the weight.

[AngryGoon38]

I liked Duddy but he was simply not world class. Ward was (in reality) on the fringe and the Gatti fights elevated him higher than what he was. But make no mistake he'd wreck Duddy.

They wouldn't fight. They're not the same size.

Why not make a thread about who wins between Carl Froch and Tim Bradley while we're at it.

The matchup doesn't even make sense here.

But, what if they were around in an era when Welterweights took on Lightheavies..and Mw's took on Hw's..?!
WW Mickey Walker fought LHW Gus Lesnevich.
MW Stanley Ketchel fought HW Jack Johnson.
Henry Armstrong weighed in at 142 versus Ceferino Garcia who came in at 153.
That's A small WW versus a full sized JrMW.
Sam Langford could put a hurtin on Alot of 200 lb'ers when he weighed around 150.
I could see Ward weighing in at a still fit enough 142 versus Duddy weighing his typical 150 something lbs.

More than the weight difference of around 15 lbs, I think that the height difference would factor in a good bit more.
Ward was 5'7 if I remember correctly. Duddy was 5'11. The reach discrepancy is relatively similar to the height difference.
Duddy's best chance would be to go for broke in the first round, as he may have had enough front runner firepower to get the significantly smaller man out of there. Basically, try to do what Ray Mancini did to Art Frias, or what Arturo Gatti did to Pete Taliefero.

If this were to somehow get dragged into the later rounds though/the trenches sort to speak, then I would favor Ward. He may be able to break down the much bigger man. Put a hurtin pummeling on em with those patented gut wrenching body shots. Sometimes even a certain smaller man can have a much bigger man's number. Especially if they can utilize certain strengths in they're offensive arsenal.

[gilgamesh]

I liked Duddy but he was simply not world class. Ward was (in reality) on the fringe and the Gatti fights elevated him higher than what he was. But make no mistake he'd wreck Duddy.

They wouldn't fight. They're not the same size.

Why not make a thread about who wins between Carl Froch and Tim Bradley while we're at it.

The matchup doesn't even make sense here.

But, what if they were around in an era when Welterweights took on Lightheavies..and Mw's took on Hw's..?!
WW Mickey Walker fought LHW Gus Lesnevich.
MW Stanley Ketchel fought HW Jack Johnson.
Henry Armstrong weighed in at 142 versus Ceferino Garcia who came in at 153.
That's A small WW versus a full sized JrMW.
Sam Langford could put a hurtin on Alot of 200 lb'ers when he weighed around 150.
I could see Ward weighing in at a still fit enough 142 versus Duddy weighing his typical 150 something lbs.

More than the weight difference of around 15 lbs, I think that the height difference would factor in a good bit more.
Ward was 5'7 if I remember correctly. Duddy was 5'11. The reach discrepancy is relatively similar to the height difference.
Duddy's best chance would be to go for broke in the first round, as he may have had enough front runner firepower to get the significantly smaller man out of there. Basically, try to do what Ray Mancini did to Art Frias, or what Arturo Gatti did to Pete Taliefero.

If this were to somehow get dragged into the later rounds though/the trenches sort to speak, then I would favor Ward. He may be able to break down the much bigger man. Put a hurtin pummeling on em with those patented gut wrenching body shots. Sometimes even a certain smaller man can have a much bigger mans number. Especially if they can utilize certain strengths in they're offensive arsenal.

If we were going by the rules of the old days and Duddy were allowed to essentially be a Middleweight fighting a Welterweight, he'd win by TKO within the first 4 or 5 rounds.

I know Duddy ultimately didn't amount to much, but frankly Micky Ward didn't either. He gave us some incredible Fight of the Year fights, but was basically just barely one notch above a really good Journeyman. He was a lower half Top 10 contender at his very best, and you're matching him against bigger men?

At least put Ward up against someone his own size for f*cks sake.

I love Micky Ward. Don't have a bad thing to say about Micky Ward as a fighter or as a human being, but why we're pretending like he'd be a threat to beat up a puncher who outweighed him by 20 pounds I'm not sure.

[AngryGoon38]

No way does Duddy knock out Ward because Duddy never was a world beater. He was a New England fighter at best who just had a big fan following because he was Irish. Ward would weather the storm and decision him.

No way does Duddy not knock out Ward. He's a Middleweight fighting a Jr. Welterweight.

No way do they ever agree to a catchweight bout. So that's your only scenario.

The entire thread hinges upon the premise that Duddy did agree to a 150 pound catchweight though. So the scenario is fringe contender Duddy coming in light. He's not knocking out Ward.

Then again I'm of the opinion that weight doesn't really matter when you have one guy who obviously had a far better career than the other man. There is a big disparity between Ward and Duddy in terms of overall ability and worth. So even if Mickey Ward was a junior welterweight I could see him still beating John Duddy.

I know we agree to disagree on that and that's okay. It's like an argument I had with my brother-in-law who was over 200 lb and I told him that a professional bantamweight boxer would beat the crap out of him and he disagreed saying he was too big but I believe a complete heavyweight novice would get embarrassed by somebody that small who had the skills and credentials.

Good post. Interesting. Yeah I agree though. A pro bantam, especially a top ranked pro, Could beat up(In the boxing ring) some random 200 lb guy off the street, and even if that 200 lb fellow is strong and fit.
Duddy versus Ward would be at least somewhat reminiscent in terms of general overall size difference, to Stallone trying to spar with Roberto Duran while they were filming Rocky II. Duran at 5'7 with a 66" reach and probably weighing around 145-150 in that scene, versus Stallone, a 5'10 180-190 lb Strong and Fit actor, who actually Did have legit punching power and relatively good natural athleticism. Not to mention, solid stamina and an obvious fervor for staying in tip top shape, especially back then. Anyway, obviously his actual LiL sparring session versus Duran(Off Camera) Did Not go well for Sly, as he adamantly admitted in an interview. He basically stated that Duran would've gotten him out of there within the first round, and early in the first round as well. I basically rate Mickey Ward overall as a solid b grade guy, while Duddy I can only say, Low b grade at best.