Roberto Duran (from Leonard 1) vs Thomas Hearns - Welterweight

[gilgamesh]

Now, why are you telling somebody to stop it, and the other ones, you give a blind eye?

Is there a preference? Ain't everybody should be equal?

Ain't the moderator had to stop it as soon as possible when things get out of hand?

I told you stop using ONE word. I didn't tell you stop doing anything else.

This is not a hard idea to understand.

The word doesn't have nothing to do with the argument. He is dissing. I am dissing back. Why you didn't stop him from telling me those words? Is he your best friend or something?

Are we in a partial forum? Or he is the king of England? Which of the two, moderator?

Now, who on here is also a moderator?

Do whatever you want. I've made myself clear.

At least to most. Not sure if it's even possible to make myself clear to you.

[elmersalsa]

I told you stop using ONE word. I didn't tell you stop doing anything else.

This is not a hard idea to understand.

The word doesn't have nothing to do with the argument. He is dissing. I am dissing back. Why you didn't stop him from telling me those words? Is he your best friend or something?

Are we in a partial forum? Or he is the king of England? Which of the two, moderator?

Now, who on here is also a moderator?

Do whatever you want. I've made myself clear.

At least to most. Not sure if it's even possible to make myself clear to you.

Whatever you say, moderator. Watch their words, also. End of argument.

[Nile4000]

I thinks Hearns wins this by 5. Bad matchup for Roberto.

[Ambling Alp II]

Duran would have a puncher's chance, but not much more than that. Don't see why them each weighing 7 pounds less would make much of a difference.

[elmersalsa]

Duran would have a puncher's chance, but not much more than that. Don't see why them each weighing 7 pounds less would make much of a difference.

Seven pounds does make a ton of difference, Alp. Yes, it does.

That's why boxing has weight classifications.

[gilgamesh]

Duran would have a puncher's chance, but not much more than that. Don't see why them each weighing 7 pounds less would make much of a difference.

Seven pounds does make a ton of difference, Alp. Yes, it does.

That's why boxing has weight classifications.

I'd think the 5 years would make a bigger difference than the 7 pounds.

I can't really imagine anything outside of a perfectly timed hail mary punch winning it for Duran here though even at his best as a Welterweight. I figure Hearns wins every round on the way to a one sided, and easy KO victory. Only difference I feel, is maybe it'd take a few more rounds before Duran got taken out.

[elmersalsa]

Duran would have a puncher's chance, but not much more than that. Don't see why them each weighing 7 pounds less would make much of a difference.

Seven pounds does make a ton of difference, Alp. Yes, it does.

That's why boxing has weight classifications.

I'd think the 5 years would make a bigger difference than the 7 pounds.

I can't really imagine anything outside of a perfectly timed hail mary punch winning it for Duran here though even at his best as a Welterweight. I figure Hearns wins every round on the way to a one sided, and easy KO victory. Only difference I feel, is maybe it'd take a few more rounds before Duran got taken out.

That only would happen at 154lbs and above. Not at 147lbs and below.

[gilgamesh]

Couldn't happen BELOW 147 pounds because Hearns was never that small. At 147. If they fought 10 times. Hearns would win 10 times.

[elmersalsa]

Couldn't happen BELOW 147 pounds because Hearns was never that small. At 147. If they fought 10 times. Hearns would win 10 times.

Not with those fringe legs. Randy Shields, a fighter that is way inferior to the great Roberto Duran lasted 11 rounds with Tommy.

Duran was much smarter and twice better than Randy Shields. I am talking about 147lbs and below. Hearns legs, stamina and chin could not keep up the pace with Sugar Ray Leonard for 14 rounds. By round 13th, Hearns' legs were spent. He is too frailed at 147 to beat a smart and aggressive fighter like Duran.

[gilgamesh]

Couldn't happen BELOW 147 pounds because Hearns was never that small. At 147. If they fought 10 times. Hearns would win 10 times.

Not with those fringe legs. Randy Shields, a fighter that is way inferior to the great Roberto Duran lasted 11 rounds with Tommy.

Duran was much smarter and twice better than Randy Shields. I am talking about 147lbs and below. Hearns legs, stamina and chin could not keep up the pace with Sugar Ray Leonard for 14 rounds. By round 13th, Hearns' legs were spent. He is too frailed at 147 to beat a smart and aggressive fighter like Duran.

You realize how insane it is to suggest that a guy who flattened somebody in 2 rounds couldn't possibly have done it in a different fight with the same guy right?

[elmersalsa]

Couldn't happen BELOW 147 pounds because Hearns was never that small. At 147. If they fought 10 times. Hearns would win 10 times.

Not with those fringe legs. Randy Shields, a fighter that is way inferior to the great Roberto Duran lasted 11 rounds with Tommy.

Duran was much smarter and twice better than Randy Shields. I am talking about 147lbs and below. Hearns legs, stamina and chin could not keep up the pace with Sugar Ray Leonard for 14 rounds. By round 13th, Hearns' legs were spent. He is too frailed at 147 to beat a smart and aggressive fighter like Duran.

You realize how insane it is to suggest that a guy who flattened somebody in 2 rounds couldn't possibly have done it in a different fight with the same guy right?

It all depends of the weight classifications. The weight limit of 154lbs was not Duran's best weight. Neither the 160lbs limit.

To beat the great Thomas Hearns, you must apply pressure. You ain't gonna beat him by outboxing him.

Aaron Pryor did it at 135lbs on the amateurs. He pressured Hearns to death.

The great Sugar Ray Leonard did it at Welterweight. Hearns was spent by the 13th round. His legs could not hold up, neither his chin and stamina.

Marvelous gave tons of pressure to him until he gassed out in only 3 rounds.

Iran Barkley once he started pressuring, stopped the Hitman in 3.

Now, we got one of the greatest fighters pound per pound, that was one of the most smart, brutal and aggressive pressure fighters ever within his weightt range (126-147lbs) and he ain't gonna do the trick?

Once he goes inside, it's all Roberto Duran's. Forget about the inside fighting. Hearns lacks that ability to fight inside.

[gilgamesh]

Against Hearns he'd have hell GETTING inside.

[oogiebe]

Against Hearns he'd have hell GETTING inside.

can't imagine a scenario where Duran beats Hearns, except for some bizarre circumstance.

[elmersalsa]

Against Hearns he'd have hell GETTING inside.

Not at 147lbs and below. Aaron Pryor didn't had that problem. Neither Randy Shields.

Once Sugar Ray figured it out, it was over.

So those 3 had better boxing acumen and generalship and better chin than Roberto Duran?

Duran was hard to cleanly hit in the lower weights of his range (126-147lbs). He had the movement and went with the punch. That was something that was one of his gifts. Go with the punch.

At 154lbs and above, he couldn't do it with fast fighters like Hearns, Wilfred Benitez and Kirkland Laing. He could not move like he wanted to. He looked like a pudgy 5'7" midget for those guys.

The only way he could win in those bigger weights (154lbs-above) was when an opponent fought his fight. Davey Moore did the brutal mistake in trying to slug it out with him. Plus, Duran was in great shape. Put the Duran that fought Benitez, Laing or Hearns and Moore would have whupped his ass so bad that it would be a massacre.

He beat Iran Barkley because Barkley brought the fight to him. Put them together in a rematch and Barkley knocks Duran out. Those were not Duran's weight range classes. But, somehow, he was able to win titles in those divisions, which are great accomplishments.

[gilgamesh]

Against Hearns he'd have hell GETTING inside.

Not at 147lbs and below. Aaron Pryor didn't had that problem. Neither Randy Shields.

Once Sugar Ray figured it out, it was over.

So those 3 had better boxing acumen and generalship and better chin than Roberto Duran?

Duran was hard to cleanly hit in the lower weights of his range (126-147lbs). He had the movement and went with the punch. That was something that was one of his gifts. Go with the punch.

At 154lbs and above, he couldn't do it with fast fighters like Hearns, Wilfred Benitez and Kirkland Laing. He could not move like he wanted to. He looked like a pudgy 5'7" midget for those guys.

The only way he could win in those bigger weights (154lbs-above) was when an opponent fought his fight. Davey Moore did the brutal mistake in trying to slug it out with him. Plus, Duran was in great shape. Put the Duran that fought Benitez, Laing or Hearns and Moore would have whupped his ass so bad that it would be a massacre.

He beat Iran Barkley because Barkley brought the fight to him. Put them together in a rematch and Barkley knocks Duran out. Those were not Duran's weight range classes. But, somehow, he was able to win titles in those divisions, which are great accomplishments.

Pryor fought Tommy Hearns. The amateur. He didn't fight Tommy Hearns. The Professional World Champion. Big difference.

[elmersalsa]

Against Hearns he'd have hell GETTING inside.

Not at 147lbs and below. Aaron Pryor didn't had that problem. Neither Randy Shields.

Once Sugar Ray figured it out, it was over.

So those 3 had better boxing acumen and generalship and better chin than Roberto Duran?

Duran was hard to cleanly hit in the lower weights of his range (126-147lbs). He had the movement and went with the punch. That was something that was one of his gifts. Go with the punch.

At 154lbs and above, he couldn't do it with fast fighters like Hearns, Wilfred Benitez and Kirkland Laing. He could not move like he wanted to. He looked like a pudgy 5'7" midget for those guys.

The only way he could win in those bigger weights (154lbs-above) was when an opponent fought his fight. Davey Moore did the brutal mistake in trying to slug it out with him. Plus, Duran was in great shape. Put the Duran that fought Benitez, Laing or Hearns and Moore would have whupped his ass so bad that it would be a massacre.

He beat Iran Barkley because Barkley brought the fight to him. Put them together in a rematch and Barkley knocks Duran out. Those were not Duran's weight range classes. But, somehow, he was able to win titles in those divisions, which are great accomplishments.

Pryor fought Tommy Hearns. The amateur. He didn't fight Tommy Hearns. The Professional World Champion. Big difference.

Hearns lost the fight because of Pryor's pressure in the amateur days. That is THE BLUEPRINT to beat a Thomas Hearns, whether was amateur or professional.

You are not going to outbox The Hitman. Nobody has, nobody is and nobody will.

[elmersalsa]

Plus, Hearns was so skinny at 135lbs, that Pryor just walked through him.

Now, a fight at Welterweight in the professional level. I would pick Hearns. Pryor never indicate that he was good at 147lbs.

See, it's all about weight classifications. Not styles nor abilities when judging these extraordinary fighters.

[AngryGoon38]

Duran was so dialed in with the first bout versus Leonard.
He was very obsessed about fighting and beating up Leonard.
Duran had an internal rage that was the equivalent to fire burning through wood.
I don't think that he had ever had a similiar level of despisement and resentment towards any other boxer before that.
Viruet and DeJesus would be only Somewhat close to that level. Somewhat close as in one half of that level of inner fire.
Duran had been initially majorly set off by the excessive publicity that Leonard was receiving, beginning around 1978, which is the year that Duran fought his last bout at Lightweight. Leonard's highly extravagant publicity along with Leonard's outrageous paychecks was Enraging Duran. That was what prompted Duran to skip going for a JrWW(140) title, and set his sights on Conquering WW (147).

I think that Duran knew, sometime in 1978, that Leonard was an Exceptional talent and would soon be the champ at 147. He certainly knew that Leonard was Thee One that he wanted to be Extra Prepared for.
With Hearns though, from what I've redd and seen in Interviews with Duran, he never showed an interest in fighting the Motor City Cobra. He made a joking remark in one particular interview that he would need a Ladder in order to fight Hearns.
Duran it seems, probably more or less viewed Hearns as some sort of Circus side show freak amongst Welterweights.
Randy Shields Did manage to go a full 12 rounds versus Hearns in 1981, in they're scheduled 15 rounder.
Shields's corner pulled him out of the bout after analyzing his Overall condition after those grueling 12 rounds.
Before that bout though, only the very durable Mike Colbert, himself a big MW(160)had gone the distance versus Hearns, and it was only A 10 rounder.

Other opponents were basically getting iced by Tommy Hearns. Pipino Cuevas Was basically faceplanted by Hearns, but not in the same level of severity that Duran would be 4 years later, against the 154 lb version of Hearns. Cuevas actually beat the count in that bout. His hands were up as well, but the ref didn't like his lack of pep and sprite. So it was waved off. Would Cuevas survive that 2nd round had it been a different type of ref..? Who knows.
Also of note would be the Hearns-Roldan MW bout in 1987. Roldan was knocked down multiple times before succumbing to the Money Shot Punch that Hearns was finally able to land, in the 4th round. Roldan actually had Hearns in serious trouble at one point though. Hearns was able to utilize effective clinching tactics to get out of that jam though. Would Hearns be able to do that back in 1980 versus a Bulling Mualing faster opponent in Roberto Duran though..?

As Elmer pointed out, the 154 version of Duran Was quite obviously a slowed down boxer, especially in his legs. So his overall style was at least a tad bit altered as well. Duran was more adaptable to various opponents with they're various styles when he was 135-147. I don't really count some of those earlier WW bouts of Duran as being The Real Duran. Versus Leonard in that first bout, in June of 1980, now that was The Real Duran !! In conclusion, I personally like to draw a what if scenario that say, if Duran had decided to try and become undisputed by taking on Hearns, in early 1981, instead of rematching Leonard right away like he foolishly did in November of 1980. What then would this alternative choice bout result in..?

Somehow I do not see Duran being A faceplant Ko victim of Hearns. Certainly not in some very early round.
With the right training camp and properly selected sparring partners I could definitely see Duran lasting the distance versus Hearns in a 1981 hypothetical could've been bout scenario. Remember, preparation can do absolute wonders. Duran seemed extra unusually unprepared when they fought in 1984 at JrMW(154). He looked hungover and sleep deprived as well.

[elmersalsa]

Duran was so dialed in with the first bout versus Leonard.
He was very obsessed about fighting and beating up Leonard.
Duran had an internal rage that was the equivalent to fire burning through wood.
I don't think that he had ever had a similiar level of despisement and resentment towards any other boxer before that.
Viruet and DeJesus would be only Somewhat close to that level. Somewhat close as in one half of that level of inner fire.
Duran had been initially majorly set off by the excessive publicity that Leonard was receiving, beginning around 1978, which is the year that Duran fought his last bout at Lightweight. Leonard's highly extravagant publicity along with Leonard's outrageous paychecks was Enraging Duran. That was what prompted Duran to skip going for a JrWW(140) title, and set his sights on Conquering WW (147).

I think that Duran knew, sometime in 1978, that Leonard was an Exceptional talent and would soon be the champ at 147. He certainly knew that Leonard was Thee One that he wanted to be Extra Prepared for.
With Hearns though, from what I've redd and seen in Interviews with Duran, he never showed an interest in fighting the Motor City Cobra. He made a joking remark in one particular interview that he would need a Ladder in order to fight Hearns.
Duran it seems, probably more or less viewed Hearns as some sort of Circus side show freak amongst Welterweights.
Randy Shields Did manage to go a full 12 rounds versus Hearns in 1981, in they're scheduled 15 rounder.
Shields's corner pulled him out of the bout after analyzing his Overall condition after those grueling 12 rounds.
Before that bout though, only the very durable Mike Colbert, himself a big MW(160)had gone the distance versus Hearns, and it was only A 10 rounder.

Other opponents were basically getting iced by Tommy Hearns. Pipino Cuevas Was basically faceplanted by Hearns, but not in the same level of severity that Duran would be 4 years later, against the 154 lb version of Hearns. Cuevas actually beat the count in that bout. His hands were up as well, but the ref didn't like his lack of pep and sprite. So it was waved off. Would Cuevas survive that 2nd round had it been a different type of ref..? Who knows.
Also of note would be the Hearns-Roldan MW bout in 1987. Roldan was knocked down multiple times before succumbing to the Money Shot Punch that Hearns was finally able to land, in the 4th round. Roldan actually had Hearns in serious trouble at one point though. Hearns was able to utilize effective clinching tactics to get out of that jam though. Would Hearns be able to do that back in 1980 versus a Bulling Mualing faster opponent in Roberto Duran though..?

As Elmer pointed out, the 154 version of Duran Was quite obviously a slowed down boxer, especially in his legs. So his overall style was at least a tad bit altered as well. Duran was more adaptable to various opponents with they're various styles when he was 135-147. I don't really count some of those earlier WW bouts of Duran as being The Real Duran. Versus Leonard in that first bout, in June of 1980, now that was The Real Duran !! In conclusion, I personally like to draw a what if scenario that say, if Duran had decided to try and become undisputed by taking on Hearns, in early 1981, instead of rematching Leonard right away like he foolishly did in November of 1980. What then would this alternative choice bout result in..?

Somehow I do not see Duran being A faceplant Ko victim of Hearns. Certainly not in some very early round.
With the right training camp and properly selected sparring partners I could definitely see Duran lasting the distance versus Hearns in a 1981 hypothetical could've been bout scenario. Remember, preparation can do absolute wonders. Duran seemed extra unusually unprepared when they fought in 1984 at JrMW(154). He looked hungover and sleep deprived as well.

Fair points, my brother! This is a remarkable post.