Tyson Fury vs Riddick Bowe

[oogiebe]

Don't really seeing Fury getting into his head. Never happened to him in real life. Fury is nuts but so is Bowe.

Bowe was mentally weak. See his interactions with Lewis. his lack of discipline. not too bright a bloke wither. and his brief prime. Easy pickings for the Gypsy King's head games.

When did Bowe ever seem to look bad because of an opponent's head games?
Never saw that happen to Bowe in a fight. Not sure what his interactions with Lewis has anything to do with anything. He nver even fought Lewis in the pros.
That is really a lot to bank on. Certainly, wouldn't count on it.

You don't need to play head games with someone to see they are weak minded. Bowe was easily triggered by Lewis when Lewis was color commentator. Or see how Bowe quickly turned to thuggery during fights or pressers. I said he was mentally weak; never said he looked bad because of an opponent's head games. But by my view, Fury would break him up pre fight.

[oogiebe]

Don't really seeing Fury getting into his head. Never happened to him in real life. Fury is nuts but so is Bowe.

Bowe was mentally weak. See his interactions with Lewis. his lack of discipline. not too bright a bloke wither. and his brief prime. Easy pickings for the Gypsy King's head games.

When did Bowe ever seem to look bad because of an opponent's head games?
Never saw that happen to Bowe in a fight. Not sure what his interactions with Lewis has anything to do with anything. He nver even fought Lewis in the pros.
That is really a lot to bank on. Certainly, wouldn't count on it.

Watch Bowe go street...you really haven't seen much of this sort of thing, or you just never took notice.

[HomicideHenry]

Bowe was mentally weak. See his interactions with Lewis. his lack of discipline. not too bright a bloke wither. and his brief prime. Easy pickings for the Gypsy King's head games.

When did Bowe ever seem to look bad because of an opponent's head games?
Never saw that happen to Bowe in a fight. Not sure what his interactions with Lewis has anything to do with anything. He nver even fought Lewis in the pros.
That is really a lot to bank on. Certainly, wouldn't count on it.

Watch Bowe go street...you really haven't seen much of this sort of thing, or you just never took notice.

I think the Mind Games aspect would have been there but with Fury it would have been to have tried to have got Bowe so angry that basically all discipline would have been thrown out of the window. That or Tyson Fury would have played the role of a clown to the point where Bowe might not have taken him seriously at all, which is what I think Fury did when he did all the antics leading up to the Vladimir Klitschko fight.

But that being said Bowe, Briggs, and Tyson all came from Brownsville New York and those men not only could talk shit, they gave shit back. From the time they were little boys onwards they were always in that street mentality. They were more likely to hit you right in the mouth the moment you tried to say something to them than to just sit back and let somebody get into their head.

[DrDuke]

When did Bowe ever seem to look bad because of an opponent's head games?
Never saw that happen to Bowe in a fight. Not sure what his interactions with Lewis has anything to do with anything. He nver even fought Lewis in the pros.
That is really a lot to bank on. Certainly, wouldn't count on it.

Watch Bowe go street...you really haven't seen much of this sort of thing, or you just never took notice.

I think the Mind Games aspect would have been there but with Fury it would have been to have tried to have got Bowe so angry that basically all discipline would have been thrown out of the window. That or Tyson Fury would have played the role of a clown to the point where Bowe might not have taken him seriously at all, which is what I think Fury did when he did all the antics leading up to the Vladimir Klitschko fight.

But that being said Bowe, Briggs, and Tyson all came from Brownsville New York and those men not only could talk shit, they gave shit back. From the time they were little boys onwards they were always in that street mentality. They were more likely to hit you right in the mouth the moment you tried to say something to them than to just sit back and let somebody get into their head.

Yeah, remember the Bowe vs Donald scrap at the pre-fight presser.

[Ambling Alp II]

Bowe was mentally weak. See his interactions with Lewis. his lack of discipline. not too bright a bloke wither. and his brief prime. Easy pickings for the Gypsy King's head games.

When did Bowe ever seem to look bad because of an opponent's head games?
Never saw that happen to Bowe in a fight. Not sure what his interactions with Lewis has anything to do with anything. He nver even fought Lewis in the pros.
That is really a lot to bank on. Certainly, wouldn't count on it.

Watch Bowe go street...you really haven't seen much of this sort of thing, or you just never took notice.

So what? Fighters do that crap. Seen that kind of thing many times. doesn't mean it got into Bowe's head and that therefore he wouldn't fight well if they had an actual fight. This doesn't mean anything at all.
When did Bowe ever show let his opponent get into his head and have it affect him in the ring? Never.

How did Bowe perform against Holyfield in the biggest fight of career? Very well.
Besides Bowe knew what he could o. He would have watched fury on video and seen what Fury could do. He would know that he was certainly better than Fury and would beat him.

[oogiebe]

When did Bowe ever seem to look bad because of an opponent's head games?
Never saw that happen to Bowe in a fight. Not sure what his interactions with Lewis has anything to do with anything. He nver even fought Lewis in the pros.
That is really a lot to bank on. Certainly, wouldn't count on it.

Watch Bowe go street...you really haven't seen much of this sort of thing, or you just never took notice.

So what? Fighters do that crap. Seen that kind of thing many times. doesn't mean it got into Bowe's head and that therefore he wouldn't fight well if they had an actual fight. This doesn't mean anything at all.
When did Bowe ever show let his opponent get into his head and have it affect him in the ring? Never.

How did Bowe perform against Holyfield in the biggest fight of career? Very well.
Besides Bowe knew what he could o. He would have watched fury on video and seen what Fury could do. He would know that he was certainly better than Fury and would beat him.

Yes, for three fights, Bowe was in his prime and performed great. Of course it was against one of the gentleman of the sweet science and no thuggery/words/games, etc.

[Ambling Alp II]

If Holyfield would have just trash talked, Bowe would have crumbled and Holyfield would have won easily?
That seems like quite a reach.

Assuming that Bowe would simply fall apart if the other guy (even though clearly inferior) started to trash talk is even further of a reach.

[oogiebe]

If Holyfield would have just trash talked, Bowe would have crumbled and Holyfield would have won easily?
That seems like quite a reach.

Assuming that Bowe would simply fall apart if the other guy (even though clearly inferior) started to trash talk is even further of a reach.

Why do you take things so out of context and create an such far fetched imaginary point never made by other posters? can't you just debate a topic? You're like a child sometimes.

[oogiebe]

And yeah, overall had Holy done some poking the bear, he might have gotten Bowe off his game. I don't think it's too difficult for an opponent to do that.

[Bodyshot3]

A little back on OT....it would have been interesting to see an upcoming Fury against an experienced but declining, but not finished Bowe. A crossroads contest in other words, rather than the accepted prime v prime scenario.

I can see 'contender' Fury making mistakes in this one; he could be sometimes sloppy, his weight was sometimes a hinderance and he was not necessarily hitting blokes with huge shots or consistently hard enough.

The Fury who fought Johnson/Cunningham over fights 20/21 could have been bang in trouble against Bowe. Riddick would have been well able to push things in a way Johnson and Cunningham could not, brush aside Fury's work.

The big problem is that we can never gauge what Bowe was capable off after those winning but brutal and debilitating fights with Golota in 1996. He would not re-emerge until 2004.

[oogiebe]

A little back on OT....it would have been interesting to see an upcoming Fury against an experienced but declining, but not finished Bowe. A crossroads contest in other words, rather than the accepted prime v prime scenario.

I can see 'contender' Fury making mistakes in this one; he could be sometimes sloppy, his weight was sometimes a hinderance and he was not necessarily hitting blokes with huge shots or consistently hard enough.

The Fury who fought Johnson/Cunningham over fights 20/21 could have been bang in trouble against Bowe. Riddick would have been well able to push things in a way Johnson and Cunningham could not, brush aside Fury's work.

The big problem is that we can never gauge what Bowe was capable off after those winning but brutal and debilitating fights with Golota in 1996. He would not re-emerge until 2004.

Maybe a thread on 'interesting' matchups would be interesting. I like this post!

[Ambling Alp II]

If Holyfield would have just trash talked, Bowe would have crumbled and Holyfield would have won easily?
That seems like quite a reach.

Assuming that Bowe would simply fall apart if the other guy (even though clearly inferior) started to trash talk is even further of a reach.

Why do you take things so out of context and create an such far fetched imaginary point never made by other posters? can't you just debate a topic? You're like a child sometimes.

I don't see how I am being farfetched. Not taking things out of context at all.
Your speculation about Bowe doesn't make any sense.

[oogiebe]

If Holyfield would have just trash talked, Bowe would have crumbled and Holyfield would have won easily?
That seems like quite a reach.

Assuming that Bowe would simply fall apart if the other guy (even though clearly inferior) started to trash talk is even further of a reach.

Why do you take things so out of context and create an such far fetched imaginary point never made by other posters? can't you just debate a topic? You're like a child sometimes.

I don't see how I am being farfetched. Not taking things out of context at all.
Your speculation about Bowe doesn't make any sense.

not to you. But I'm not surprised. Seems anything you don't agree with makes no sense to you. Thank!

[Ambling Alp II]

Sometimes I disagree with another person but understand where they come from. Someone might think Hank Aaron was better than Willie Mays and I don't. Or who was better between Robinson and Greb or something like that. In those cases I can see where the other person is coming from. Other times a person opinion seems to be based on bias or lack of knowledge or both or whatever. Obviously, we aren't going to agree on everything and it would be boring if we did.

I was just saying in this instance, your argument about Bowe doesn't seem to be based on much and I said why. Nothing personal.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Bowe had 1 fight at the elite hof level. He is squandered talent

Fury easily

[oogiebe]

Sometimes I disagree with another person but understand where they come from. Someone might think Hank Aaron was better than Willie Mays and I don't. Or who was better between Robinson and Greb or something like that. In those cases I can see where the other person is coming from. Other times a person opinion seems to be based on bias or lack of knowledge or both or whatever. Obviously, we aren't going to agree on everything and it would be boring if we did.

I was just saying in this instance, your argument about Bowe doesn't seem to be based on much and I said why. Nothing personal.

You're the same with everyone on this Alpy. So I wouldn't take it personal. I'm just calling it as I see it and it's obvious that when you disagree, this is how you act. 'nuff said.

[Ambling Alp II]

Sorry I am not nice as you. That is quite the intellectual debate you have with elmer.

[Ambling Alp II]

Bowe had 1 fight at the elite hof level. He is squandered talent

Fury easily

He fought a great fight in the 2nd fight with Holyfield as well. (Actually looked pretty good for most of the third.)

Holyfield was a lot better than anyone Fury has had to contend with. Is Wilder really at the elite level?

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Bowe had 1 fight at the elite hof level. He is squandered talent

Fury easily

He fought a great fight in the 2nd fight with Holyfield as well. (Actually looked pretty good for most of the third.)

Holyfield was a lot better than anyone Fury has had to contend with. Is Wilder really at the elite level?

I thought the 3rd fight was more holyfield gassing

Wlad k is absolutely elite. Fury beat him

[Ambling Alp II]

I do think Holyfield may have been tired. He did seem off. however, Bowe fought well (except for a stupid foul) until he got decked. He did get up and survived. Not everyone would have. He was not as good as the first two Holyfield fights, but still overall a good performance.

He was clearly past it by then. It was a terrible fight. A great fighter would have put Klitschko away. Watch any of the Bowe-Holyfield fights and then watch Klitschko-Fury (if you can bear it.) There is a huge difference. Bowe was clearly better.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

I do think Holyfield may have been tired. He did seem off. however, Bowe fought well (except for a stupid foul) until he got decked. He did get up and survived. Not everyone would have. He was not as good as the first two Holyfield fights, but still overall a good performance.

He was clearly past it by then. It was a terrible fight. A great fighter would have put Klitschko away. Watch any of the Bowe-Holyfield fights and then watch Klitschko-Fury (if you can bear it.) There is a huge difference. Bowe was clearly better.

Holyfield had some heart issue didnt he? I thought that was the reason for gis terrible performance

I like bowe he was fun. I dont think bowe would deal well with someone who is bigger than him, quicker on his feet. I think bowe would be tired from furys size and movement.

And i like myself so i wont rewatch a minute of fury v klitschko hahaha

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

I really do like bowe but he got his ass kicked by andrew golata and he was thoroughly outboxed by him.

[Ambling Alp II]

For the most part, he didn't look good in those fights. To some degree, his subpar performance was affected by being fouled so much. Certainly, wasn't impressive. However, he did show heart and hung in there. If he had a weak chin he wouldn't have lasted. certainly not pretty wins. But look at fury's fights against an ancient Klitschko and the first Wilder fight. He did virtually nothing on offense.
These were by far Bowe's worst fights. He showed in other fights that he a lot of talent and a wide arsenal. He had a very good jab, right hand. He fought very well inside for a big guy and had underrated hand speed. He definitely could have had a better career, but we need to judge it on what happened, not what could have.

[Bodyshot3]

I liked and respected Bowe as well.....so fair stuff Ambling, the guy had huge talent and he won some big scalps.
Sometimes it should not be you against the board

But Fury would have surely sorted-out Golota - just too quick, elusive and busy, too big and hard to get bullied either - and that's where I see a certain point of separation. Fury makes a way better job of beating the Pole than Bowe.

Fury is just - in the nicest possible way - a bit of a "freak."

A massive 6'9 fella who can box, work and nick rounds....defuse-frustrate opponents.....but he can go to war with the likes of Wilder and inflict some hurt as well.

For the sake of objectivity - Bowe has the "W" against Golota - and Fury does not. That's a mythical.
But I think Fury would handle Golota way better than Bowe....and that might be telling.

[Ambling Alp II]

Not saying that the Bowe that fought Golota would have beaten Fury. However, the Bowe before that would have easily. Against a prime Bowe, Fury would be fighting an opponent far better than anyone he has ever fought. Fury has never fought a great fighter. Bowe has. Bowe was much more aggressive and talented than Wilder. When Wilder landed with something, Fury went down. Fury would getting hit much, much more than he ever has.