Ali-Norton I Analysis
..buzzy...i haven't t been ducking your question re: norton and ezzard charles......just wanted to give it some thought. i am not a knee jerk "charles would win" on any question. conclusion....norton had some skills....his fight with holmes could have gone to him...very close...but i think over all he was a one fighter effective stylist. he just seemed to have ali's number, if not to win at least to make it close and debatable. i thought jimmy young edged norton. now...when ever i compare charles to heavyweights the size is always a factor ....ezzard was at his very best as a light heavy, but was so exceptional a fighter he could give away pounds and beat good heavyweights...when he came in at around 180. norton had the weight edge, but not much in height,and i don't see anything in norton's style that ezzard couldn't handle. i think ezz would move in and out on him, match his jab and hit him with left hooks.....norton had that unusual cross arms stance that would allow ezzard to get inside, hook to the head and get back out, then in again for a more sustained body attack. so....i see ezzard winning a decision in a fast interesting match, but winning clearly.
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TheOneIsHere2008
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Jul 2008, 12:09
Re:
That sounds like Leonard-Hagler...Leonard danced the first six rounds and won most of them and then got tired and lost most of the rest of the fight...That's why the decision is so controversial...IMHO a younger Leonard could have stayed on his bike the whole fight as could a younger Ali...silkov wrote:The 2nd Norton fight really showed the difference between the 70s and the 60s Ali... Ali was in really top shape... perhaps the best shape he'd been in since the late 60s... certainly the best since Frazier 1 and he outboxed Norton and danced nonstop for the first 6 rounds, but then he tired and spent about rounds 7 to 11 flat footed and having to slug it out and then came back moving again in the 12th and final round... definately Ali's fight but showed that even in top shape he just didnt have the stamina in his legs anymore...
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elmersalsa
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50
Re:
Welcome back, jaclemJaclem wrote:..oops..forgot to add....if ali could go ten rounds or nearly that many against norton with a broken jaw then why didn't he dominate norton when he jaw was okay.....which he never did....in their subsequent fights?
i am not necessarily saying norton won those fights...just pointing out they were close and ali never did beat him by a clear margin...if he did indeed beat him at all.
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elmersalsa
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50
Re:
Dave is so clear as waterDaveV17 wrote:BoxBuzz asked:
"Does anyone think that Norton could have pulled off a win with Ali in his prime? I think it would be competitive but a bit more one sided in favor of Ali. "
Norton would either fight a close fight or beat Ali at any time in Ali's career. Boxers who threw punches, and kept coming at Ali always troubled him. Chuvalo gave Ali problems in the 60s, Mildenberger gave Ali problems in the 60s, Doug Jones gave him problems, Leon Spinks fought aggressively the first time and troubled Ali. Bonavena gave Ali a lot of problems. Norton was the biggest and most athletic of that group and Ali never found a way to deal with him.
I don't remember ever seeing a fight in which Ali danced/moved the whole way, Even in the 60s Ali held a lot. Norton would have been the same thorn in Ali's side in 1967 as the was in the 70s. IMO, Norton won the first and third fights with Ali big, the second one was closer, but Norton probably won it too. Ali would always struggle with Ken Norton, and if the judging was honest, Ali might never win a fight with Norton.
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TheOneIsHere2008
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Jul 2008, 12:09
Re: Re:
Ali is not the first boxer to get a gift decision...I'll stipulate that Norton gave Ali fits but they fought thirty nine rounds and not once did he have Ali in visible trouble...Yes, he broke Ali's jaw but we know about it only in retrospect...elmersalsa wrote:Dave is so clear as waterDaveV17 wrote:BoxBuzz asked:
"Does anyone think that Norton could have pulled off a win with Ali in his prime? I think it would be competitive but a bit more one sided in favor of Ali. "
Norton would either fight a close fight or beat Ali at any time in Ali's career. Boxers who threw punches, and kept coming at Ali always troubled him. Chuvalo gave Ali problems in the 60s, Mildenberger gave Ali problems in the 60s, Doug Jones gave him problems, Leon Spinks fought aggressively the first time and troubled Ali. Bonavena gave Ali a lot of problems. Norton was the biggest and most athletic of that group and Ali never found a way to deal with him.
I don't remember ever seeing a fight in which Ali danced/moved the whole way, Even in the 60s Ali held a lot. Norton would have been the same thorn in Ali's side in 1967 as the was in the 70s. IMO, Norton won the first and third fights with Ali big, the second one was closer, but Norton probably won it too. Ali would always struggle with Ken Norton, and if the judging was honest, Ali might never win a fight with Norton.
IMHO, all three fights could have went either way...Someone said Ali wasn't sure he won the second fight...Well, Ken Norton wasn't sure he won the first-
"During the reading of the scorecard I had a little doubt...I wasn't thinking well I lost..But I was on edge..."